'17 WI OT Tyler Beach (Wisconsin Verbal)

[Domina Nostra]

GB might be the least homerish(?) of us all. He freaking likes the Trojans.

Also, a little homerism is a good thing. If we were all "realists," we'd have to admit that following college football recruiting on an internet message board is pretty lame.

 

[arrowryan]

Per Loy, Notre Dame led going into the Wisconsin visit but things obviously changed. He had some concerns with the Notre Dame depth chart; if that is true then I'm glad he picked UW as it seems he doesn't want to compete

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Per Loy, Notre Dame led going into the Wisconsin visit but things obviously changed. He had some concerns with the Notre Dame depth chart; if that is true then I'm glad he picked UW as it seems he doesn't want to compete

That's something when someone would rather go to Wisconsin because their depth chart is less scary. WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

 

[Sherm Sticky]

That's something when someone would rather go to Wisconsin because their depth chart is less scary. WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE

Seriously. Just think about the kids who will be starting this if they all progress as we think they will and stay healthy:

Big Mike: Top 10 pick
Q: 1st or 2nd rounder
Sam: To early to tell
Bars: 1st or 2nd round type player

That's crazy good! Add in Hoge, Ruhlnad, the three kids from the 2016 class, the 2 kids committed so far for 2017. Crazy good!

 

[calvegas04]

Seriously. Just think about the kids who will be starting this if they all progress as we think they will and stay healthy:

Big Mike: Top 10 pick
Q: 1st or 2nd rounder
Sam: To early to tell
Bars: 1st or 2nd round type player

That's crazy good! Add in Hoge, Ruhlnad, the three kids from the 2016 class, the 2 kids committed so far for 2017. Crazy good!

Would be nice if we could get into a playoffs with a line as good as we think it is.

 

[NorthDakota]

Per Loy, Notre Dame led going into the Wisconsin visit but things obviously changed. He had some concerns with the Notre Dame depth chart; if that is true then I'm glad he picked UW as it seems he doesn't want to compete

Wisconsin's depth chart at all positions should be less scary than Notre F'ing Dame.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Not surprising comment coming from a huge homer.

Notre Dame had a chance to get this kid and they didn't. He isn't Foster Sarell or Trey Smith, but Hiestand doesn't offer kids he doesn't think can play at Notre Dame. It's a loss.

So, like man, ease up. You don't know if he was told he was number three on the list with two to be taken. Seriously, he could very well have been told his commitment couldn't be accepted at this time.

So, I agree with GB, as of the last two years Harry has gotten everyone he wanted. And those that he offered that didn't pull the trigger for ND, aren't exactly tearing up elsewhere.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Seriously. Just think about the kids who will be starting this if they all progress as we think they will and stay healthy:

Big Mike: Top 10 pick
Q: 1st or 2nd rounder
Sam: To early to tell
Bars: 1st or 2nd round type player

That's crazy good! Add in Hoge, Ruhlnad, the three kids from the 2016 class, the 2 kids committed so far for 2017. Crazy good!

What you mean like Kramer who is the top rated offensive recruit since Jimmy Clausen. Or the bus mauling PMoney? Or Liam, who played as good as any of them?

And while you are at it, did I hear Kelly right? He clearly said Q was 346lbs. Whether he misspoke or not, I don't know. But that is what came out of his mouth in the last PC.

Someone who has been up to watch practice said he looks beastly. He and Mustipher are broader and thicker than anything we have put on the field lately. I know the program lists him as 325, but Kelly went out of the way to say Q was in the best shape of his life, and moving faster than ever, even though he was up to 346. C'est vrai?

 

[GreyWorm]

Per Loy, Notre Dame led going into the Wisconsin visit but things obviously changed. He had some concerns with the Notre Dame depth chart; if that is true then I'm glad he picked UW as it seems he doesn't want to compete

I wouldn't necessarily say the kid was scared to compete. You sometimes have to be smart about your decision. If there are multiple guys with multiple guys coming in at your position and you can play in another good system with less depth, then I don't have a problem with that. It's not like he is chose Illinois to go to school. Wisconsin has had 8 OL drafted since 2010. Notre Dame has had 4 in the same period.

Not every kid that doesn't commit to Notre Dame is scared to compete or can't get into school because of academics.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I wouldn't necessarily say the kid was scared to compete. You sometimes have to be smart about your decision. If there are multiple guys with multiple guys coming in at your position and you can play in another good system with less depth, then I don't have a problem with that. It's not like he is chose Illinois to go to school. Wisconsin has had 8 OL drafted since 2010. Notre Dame has had 4 in the same period.

Not every kid that doesn't commit to Notre Dame is scared to compete or can't get into school because of academics.

Of course we can do anything we want with statistics, and the simple fact is the offensive line performance at ND through 2012 was totally shaped (read pissed-away) by the Weis staff. It was only his later recruits that benefited from Harry Hiestand. Remember, Harry wasn't Kelly's first line coach.

Cris Watt recently mentioned that he had four line coaches in four years, and he is convinced that if he had Harry the whole time, he would have been much better coming out of college.

And as far as statistics, we all have every reason to believe that Stanley is going to be a top five or ten pick, and that next year McGlinchey will be the same. Most now feel that Nick Martin will be a second rounder, which puts him top 60ish. All of a sudden, going back five years from 2017 puts ND in the position of putting four players out of five in the first two rounds. And the lowest drafted has a really good NFL career ahead of him.

The problem between a comparison between Wisconsin and ND is ND is trending up so fast under better coaching, while Wisconsin has suffered under its recent coaching. Wisconsin was much better with offensive lines in the years that Charlie Weis was coach, but I think that has really reversed under Kelly, with HH in particular. So it is all about what a school has moving forward. And something else.

What nobody talks about is the blocking scheme employed by ND. It is the toughest for a big guy to play. You have to be a seriously great athlete, with quick feet, and a low base. Oh, and smart. I personally wouldn't blame any kid for not wanting to play it, but I think it is like the competition conversation. We only need kids up for the challenge. It is all about improving yourself by taking on big tasks that force you to grow, to succeed.

Beyond that, ND is so packed at O-line through 2019 that I think the chances for a given recruit to break into the lineup are as low as anywhere in the country. Look at it this way, the youngsters that break into the O-line, like almost anywhere on the Kelly teams coming up, will do so by having remarkably greater skill sets, and raw potential than their more senior counterparts.

Guys like Tommy Kramer and Liam Eichenberg will play. PMoney will probably play, but not so early. There may even be guys that graduate from ND that played four years with few if any starts, that are better than guys that come out of other schools with the starts, that get drafted. This used to be far from infrequent at ND.

 

[arrowryan]

I wouldn't necessarily say the kid was scared to compete. You sometimes have to be smart about your decision. If there are multiple guys with multiple guys coming in at your position and you can play in another good system with less depth, then I don't have a problem with that. It's not like he is chose Illinois to go to school. Wisconsin has had 8 OL drafted since 2010. Notre Dame has had 4 in the same period.

Not every kid that doesn't commit to Notre Dame is scared to compete or can't get into school because of academics.

I agree with Bogs, I don't think that is a very fair statistic to use because BK, in 2010 and 2011, had o-linemen that Weis got with his bullshit recruiting; also, HH didn't come in until a few years after the Kelly era began. With the combination of BK's recruiting and HH's coaching, there is no way I'm taking Wisconsin's o-line over Notre Dame's.

It just doesn't look good in my book when he says that he had some concerns with the depth chart. So you don't want to be coached by the best o-line coach in the country? You don't want to learn from multiple future NFL players? You don't want to play one of the best schedules in the country? I might sound butt hurt but I'm not, I just think using the depth chart in this particular situation is a really bad excuse.

 

[BobbyMac]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you aren't where you need to be until you start losing good recruits because of the depth chart.

ND's offensive line recruiting is like O'Hare in a storm. The terminals are full, planes are on the tarmac, big jets are circling waiting for a gate and a lot of others will get diverted to other airports.

 

[ChicagoCatholic]

I agree with Bogs, I don't think that is a very fair statistic to use because BK, in 2010 and 2011, had o-linemen that Weis got with his bullshit recruiting; also, HH didn't come in until a few years after the Kelly era began. With the combination of BK's recruiting and HH's coaching, there is no way I'm taking Wisconsin's o-line over Notre Dame's.

It just doesn't look good in my book when he says that he had some concerns with the depth chart. So you don't want to be coached by the best o-line coach in the country? You don't want to learn from multiple future NFL players? You don't want to play one of the best schedules in the country? I might sound butt hurt but I'm not, I just think using the depth chart in this particular situation is a really bad excuse.

Our own coach uses the depth chart as a selling point. This is a quote in the Thomas Graham thread: “(Kelly) said basically the difference between USC and Notre Dame is they need my help immediately and more at corner,” Graham said.

I would argue it is unwise to not look at the depth chart when considering where you are going. The depth chart does not have to be the sole determinant (Notre Dame has enough differentiators to win battles when the depth chart is already solid) but it should be considered.

 

[woolybug25]

It just doesn't look good in my book when he says that he had some concerns with the depth chart. So you don't want to be coached by the best o-line coach in the country? You don't want to learn from multiple future NFL players? You don't want to play one of the best schedules in the country? I might sound butt hurt but I'm not, I just think using the depth chart in this particular situation is a really bad excuse.

I disagree. I think that is a short-sighted way of looking at it. Let me give you a comparison.

Let's say you are an aspiring stockbroker that just graduated from a state school, looking to get your first job. Do you want to join the most experienced firm alongside graduates from Yale, Harvard and Columbia. Do you not only want to compete with them, but also the seasoned professionals that already have made their mark?

Or would you rather go with a smaller firm with a great reputation, excellent training program and one where they will actually let you make the trades?

We blindly want to act like all kids should want to compete or they don't have fire. They should be smart about their development. If he came here and was stuck behind other guys his entire career, then how would he develop? At Wisco, he will get more one on one coaching by coaches that have put a lot of players into the league. He will get a better opportunity to showcase himself on gameday, as he will see the field sooner. I don't blame him at all. It was a shrewd decision that will give him the best opportunity to maximize his potential. That same potential may never get an opportunity to develop at Notre Dame.

 

[arrowryan]

I disagree. I think that is a short-sighted way of looking at it. Let me give you a comparison.

Let's say you are an aspiring stockbroker that just graduated from a state school, looking to get your first job. Do you want to join the most experienced firm alongside graduates from Yale, Harvard and Columbia. Do you not only want to compete with them, but also the seasoned professionals that already have made their mark?

Or would you rather go with a smaller firm with a great reputation, excellent training program and one where they will actually let you make the trades?

We blindly want to act like all kids should want to compete or they don't have fire. They should be smart about their development. If he came here and was stuck behind other guys his entire career, then how would he develop? At Wisco, he will get more one on one coaching by coaches that have put a lot of players into the league. He will get a better opportunity to showcase himself on gameday, as he will see the field sooner. I don't blame him at all. It was a shrewd decision that will give him the best opportunity to maximize his potential. That same potential may never get an opportunity to develop at Notre Dame.

Bravo on that comparison, Wooly; that was a great one.

I'm obviously seeing this from a different perspective than others. BK has turned an incredible amount of 3 star recruits into NFL draft picks. Why not go to Notre Dame and be the next 3 star to exceed expectations?

If the firm that has graduates from Yale, Harvard, and Columbia has a reputation of pumping out hugely successful people then I would definitely give that firm a long, hard look lol.