'17 GA DE/OLB Robert Beal (Georgia Verbal)

[IrishLion]

Putting in more hours isn't going to change the punk entitlement attitude of "I will only play football for you if you admit my family member, too."

EDIT: Let's not stretch this and act like Beal is trying to get his sister in via his commitment.

They both want to attend school together. She wasn't admitted to ND, so he decommited. I don't see any "punk entitlement" there.

 

[GBdomer]

Putting in more hours isn't going to change the punk entitlement attitude of "I will only play football for you if you admit my family member, too."

How do you call someone you don't know and a kid making the biggest decision of his life a "punk" because he doesn't want to attend ND?

 

[dad4aa]

EDIT: Let's not stretch this and act like Beal is trying to get his sister in via his commitment.

They both want to attend school together. She wasn't admitted to ND, so he decommited. I don't see any "punk entitlement" there.

I'm not sure. Not saying he committed to get her in, but I can agree with kmoose's thinking along this...if you know you are going to be admitted but will not attend unless your sister is admitted you can:

1) wait until she gets in and then verbal once she is admitted or look elsewhere is she's not

2) commit hoping it will open the door for her acceptance if she is borderline because ND does not want to lose him

I lean toward the second option since he was so quick to decommit and drop us from his top 5

 

[IrishLion]

I'm not sure. Not saying he committed to get her in, but I can agree with kmoose's thinking along this...if you know you are going to be admitted but will not attend unless your sister is admitted you can:

1) wait until she gets in and then verbal once she is admitted or look elsewhere is she's not

2) commit hoping it will open the door for her acceptance if she is borderline because ND does not want to lose him

I lean toward the second option since he was so quick to decommit and drop us from his top 5

Okay, but I don't see any "punk entitlement" even if that's the case... I see a kid hoping that his status will help his sister.

Now, if he said, "if you want me to play, you'll let my sister in," and tried to hold the staff hostage, that's a different story. But that is faaaaaaar leap from the kid decommiting because she didn't get accepted.

If anything, I'm glad he did it now rather than waiting to see if anything changed. More heartache that way.

 

[kmoose]

EDIT: Let's not stretch this and act like Beal is trying to get his sister in via his commitment.

They both want to attend school together. She wasn't admitted to ND, so he decommited. I don't see any "punk entitlement" there.

How do you call someone you don't know and a kid making the biggest decision of his life a "punk" because he doesn't want to attend ND?

I didn't call anyone a punk. I said that it was a punk attitude.

It's funny how no one was concerned about "stretching" when people were saying that ND's Admission Office better look favorably upon the sister's application. Did I miss that? It seems like people were perfectly happy to believe that Beal's commitment was tied directly to his sister's admission at that time?

 

[IrishLion]

I didn't call anyone a punk. I said that it was a punk attitude.

It's funny how no one was concerned about "stretching" when people were saying that ND's Admission Office better look favorably upon the sister's application. Did I miss that? It seems like people were perfectly happy to believe that Beal's commitment was tied directly to his sister's admission at that time?

What makes that "punk entitlement" though? It didn't work out, so he cut ties. That seems pretty straight-forward to me.

 

[kmoose]

What makes that "punk entitlement" though? It didn't work out, so he cut ties. That seems pretty straight-forward to me.

Did you read what I said? The attitude of "I'll only play football for you if you make sure my sister gets admitted" is a punk entitlement attitude, and I really don't think there's an argument to be made that it isn't. I'll grant you all that I don't know that Robert Beal took that exact attitude, and it really doesn't matter if he did or not. The point is that I was responding to a thinly veiled accusation that the coaching staff was not putting enough hours into recruiting. We all know that many of these kids (at least many more than used to) have "Entitlement-itis", and no extra hours are going to change the fact that the University of Notre Dame isn't going to cater to that. Not to mention that it would horrible for any coach to allow any recruit to even think that it might.

And before you all get high and mighty about it........... I will again point out that NO ONE challenged the assertion that this was presented to ND as a "2 for 1" deal, when people were imploring ND's admissions people to make sure she got in. So don't give me any crap about me being unreasonable fpr suggesting that it could have been that way.

 

[IrishLion]

Did you read what I said? The attitude of "I'll only play football for you if you make sure my sister gets admitted" is a punk entitlement attitude, and I really don't think there's an argument to be made that it isn't. I'll grant you all that I don't know that Robert Beal took that exact attitude, and it really doesn't matter if he did or not. The point is that I was responding to a thinly veiled accusation that the coaching staff was not putting enough hours into recruiting. We all know that many of these kids (at least many more than used to) have "Entitlement-itis", and no extra hours are going to change the fact that the University of Notre Dame isn't going to cater to that. Not to mention that it would horrible for any coach to allow any recruit to even think that it might.

And before you all get high and mighty about it........... I will again point out that NO ONE challenged the assertion that this was presented to ND as a "2 for 1" deal, when people were imploring ND's admissions people to make sure she got in. So don't give me any crap about me being unreasonable fpr suggesting that it could have been that way.

I absolutely agree that the "put in more hours" thing doesn't help, and for many reasons. For some, like you said, they want the whole world for their services. For others, they just don't want to try hard at school. And yet others simply don't like ND for myriad reasons. Putting in more hours doesn't help any of that (as if the coaches are slacking off as it is. They could get in earlier on some guys, sure, but that doesn't mean they are sitting around doing nothing. But that's a whole other convo.)

I'm just saying that it's always been known that he and his sister wanted to attend ND together... and of course people hoped that his status would help her get admitted. But that doesn't mean we need to accuse the kid of acting with the attitude of an "entitled punk". If anything, his actions after her denial have shown the exact opposite. Rather than stringing things along and/or trying to strong-arm things, he cut ties. That doesn't seem like a kid that's acting like a punk or like he's entitled to something.

Is it an attitude that exists? Surely. Did Robert hope that his commitment might help his sister get in? Most likely. But that doesn't mean we need to start lumping him in with other recruits that truly exhibit negative traits.

 

[kmoose]

I absolutely agree that the "put in more hours" thing doesn't help, and for many reasons. For some, like you said, they want the whole world for their services. For others, they just don't want to try hard at school. And yet others simply don't like ND for myriad reasons. Putting in more hours doesn't help any of that (as if the coaches are slacking off as it is. They could get in earlier on some guys, sure, but that doesn't mean they are sitting around doing nothing. But that's a whole other convo.)

I'm just saying that it's always been known that he and his sister wanted to attend ND together... and of course people hoped that his status would help her get admitted. But that doesn't mean we need to accuse the kid of acting with the attitude of an "entitled punk". If anything, his actions after her denial have shown the exact opposite. Rather than stringing things along and/or trying to strong-arm things, he cut ties. That doesn't seem like a kid that's acting like a punk or like he's entitled to something.

Is it an attitude that exists? Surely. Did Robert hope that his commitment might help his sister get in? Most likely. But that doesn't mean we need to start lumping him in with other recruits that truly exhibit negative traits.

And I didn't do that. I said that the attitude would be a punk attitude. I never said that Beal had that attitude, nor did I refer to Beal as a punk.

 

[IrishLion]

And I didn't do that. I said that the attitude would be a punk attitude. I never said that Beal had that attitude, nor did I refer to Beal as a punk.

Well your original post on the topic didn't leave much room for any other interpretation. I now understand that you meant it more as a commentary on the fans and attitudes of entitlement in general, though.

 

[beryirish]

lol you two

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I didn't call anyone a punk. I said that it was a punk attitude.

It's funny how no one was concerned about "stretching" when people were saying that ND's Admission Office better look favorably upon the sister's application. Did I miss that? It seems like people were perfectly happy to believe that Beal's commitment was tied directly to his sister's admission at that time?

I agree with kmoose, strongly!

Either Robert didn't make it crystal clear to Kelly and Co., Robert's his commitment was based upon his sister's acceptance, which I really doubt. I don't think Kelly would have accepted Robert's commitment with any conditions. It seemed he had some really great players last year that BK wouldn't agree to take their commitment, until taking visits to other schools was out of their blood.

Or, to decommit was a forced negotiation situation. After committing, Beal added the condition that he required ND to accept his sister. This seems more likely.

The one thing that seems impossible in the situation is that there was so bad of communication on the part of Kelly and Beal that a de-commitment was the only solution. Why would you have a situation where a kids 'dream school' tumbles from a solid commitment to out of the top five? Just because we hit a roadblock, which will happen as often as not, and two mature parties come to a disagreement that keeps them from moving forward, they rarely completely part ways at the first bump. For example, even when DRob de-committed from the Tide, he kept them in the top five.

Burning bridges, and emotional decisions in business are punk moves. Which is all that kmoose said.

And interestingly enough, that is one of the few conclusions we can draw in this situation.

Finally, it is interesting how so many can 'kid' about bag men in these threads, and when someone proposes something that is rational, he gets attacked!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I absolutely agree that the "put in more hours" thing doesn't help, and for many reasons. For some, like you said, they want the whole world for their services. For others, they just don't want to try hard at school. And yet others simply don't like ND for myriad reasons. Putting in more hours doesn't help any of that (as if the coaches are slacking off as it is. They could get in earlier on some guys, sure, but that doesn't mean they are sitting around doing nothing. But that's a whole other convo.)

I'm just saying that it's always been known that he and his sister wanted to attend ND together... and of course people hoped that his status would help her get admitted. But that doesn't mean we need to accuse the kid of acting with the attitude of an "entitled punk". If anything, his actions after her denial have shown the exact opposite. Rather than stringing things along and/or trying to strong-arm things, he cut ties. That doesn't seem like a kid that's acting like a punk or like he's entitled to something.

Is it an attitude that exists? Surely. Did Robert hope that his commitment might help his sister get in? Most likely. But that doesn't mean we need to start lumping him in with other recruits that truly exhibit negative traits.

The first part I agree with. I think if people would really look at it accurately, the only way the coaches could put more hours in is if the slacked off on coaching responsibilities and became full time recruiters!

About the second point, I really don't care what has been known. If anyone really believes that Kelly, as well as he screens recruits, would have let that go unexplored before he accepted Roberts commitment, you need to back off following Irish football.

Really, for health's sake.

 

[IrishLion]

EDIT: Redundant point being made.

 

[Irish#1]

And I didn't do that. I said that the attitude would be a punk attitude. I never said that Beal had that attitude, nor did I refer to Beal as a punk.

You're splitting hairs. You didn't call him a punk, but you called it a punk attitude and it was referencing Beal. Perhaps you should stop sounding so high and mighty. Two teenage siblings agreeing to go to the same college isn't far fetched, but it's a stretch. This decision is coming from his parents.

 

[kmoose]

You're splitting hairs. You didn't call him a punk, but you called it a punk attitude and it was referencing Beal. Perhaps you should stop sounding so high and mighty. Two teenage siblings agreeing to go to the same college isn't far fetched, but it's a stretch. This decision is coming from his parents.

I'm not being high and mighty about anything. And I never said that Beal ever did make that ultimatum. I was responding to a post about the coaching staff not putting enough time into recruiting. I simply used one possibility of what could have gone down with Beal as an example of how the coaches putting more time in would not have made a bit of a difference. If other people took that as a high and mighty attack on Beal, then tough sh!t. I have explained, yet again, that it was not that. You can either accept that and move on or you can sit and dwell on it. Either way, I don't care. So save your advice about my attitude.

 

[Grahambo]

Not sure if already mentioned in here so ignore if it is:

According to Mike Frank on ISD Power Hour, the Beal de-commitment was a surprise, however, the sister excuse is simply..."convenient" and says it could be a case of too many people in his head.

 

[rocket66]

Not sure if already mentioned in here so ignore if it is:

According to Mike Frank on ISD Power Hour, the Beal de-commitment was a surprise, however, the sister excuse is simply..."convenient" and says it could be a case of too many people in his head.

Interesting. It was definitely convenient. Not that it matters.


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[Grahambo]

Interesting. It was definitely convenient. Not that it matters.


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It really doesn't matter but was interesting to hear how the sister is essentially being used as an excuse for his de-commitment.

 

[dang227]

Tin foil hat theory: Maybe he only committed thinking it would help
his sister get accepted and he had no intention of ever coming to ND?


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[irishff1014]

Not sure if already mentioned in here so ignore if it is:

According to Mike Frank on ISD Power Hour, the Beal de-commitment was a surprise, however, the sister excuse is simply..."convenient" and says it could be a case of too many people in his head.

Surprise surprise

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Wow! Somebody should have come out proposing that yesterday and the day before. with other posters taking umbrage with him on the whole point!

 

[irishff1014]

Coming back in June

 

[GrangerIrish24]

ummmmm Loy with the CB

 

[irish o'phile]

Whoa And yay.

 

[longliveautrydenson]

ummmmm Loy with the CB

We're back baby!!!!

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Seriously my #1 want in this class, I like his tape better than Kaindoh and is a 5* at perhaps our biggest position of need.

 

[ginman]

We had a commit just like this guy earlier in the year if I recall correctly.

 

[irishff1014]

If Loy blows our chance here because he has to be the first one to 'break' something I'm going to be furious. He was not the first person to know this, but better reporters kept this under wraps for a reason.

You knew?

 

[fightingirish26]

uhhhh im ok with this