'15 NJ QB Brandon Wimbush (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[IrishLax]

Exact opposite?

Coaching can help Wimbush to some degree. They can’t help him excel. External help works best helping someone over lost confidence, not turning a below average player into a star.

Yes, there is tons of literature on teaching people to cope with pressure and process information under duress. The conclusion is that you can absolutely condition/coach people to behave a certain way under stress.

 

[Valpodoc85]

Yes, there is tons of literature on teaching people to cope with pressure and process information under duress. The conclusion is that you can absolutely condition/coach people to behave a certain way under stress.

Agree with this. Thing is you only get the yips if you care.

 

[snoopdog]

Yes, there is tons of literature on teaching people to cope with pressure and process information under duress. The conclusion is that you can absolutely condition/coach people to behave a certain way under stress.

Cope - yes

Excel - not really

There are very few examples that I can think of where a below average competitor has be made a super star by coaching/counseling.

Watching the blue/gold game this year made me question BW’s passing ability. And remembering the posts I wasn’t the only one. I have no doubt in his athletic ability, but seriously question whether he will be a well rounded P5 QB

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

While getting rid of anxiety is a tall order, if it happens, his ceiling appears to be ridiculously high.

Book could get all the work, but his ceiling is so much lower.

Breakthrough the mental limitations and this kid's physical gifts take over.

I'm all in supporting Brandon on this challenge.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I think whiteflield may be the problem

 

[pumpdog20]

While BW did struggle, he also didn't have any receivers who could help him out either. There are plenty of good QBs who get bailed out. Wimbush never did.

 

[stlnd01]

Wimbush has all the tools. His troubles are mechanics and/or mental. The answer is fixing that, not Ian Book. Guess we don’t know enough about Avery Davis to know if he is the answer but no reason to assume he is either.

 

[ND88]

Brandon will find a way. No discredit to Ian Book or Avery Davis, but he is our guy going forward. He had his struggles this season, some of them glaring and obviously frustrating to watch. He had his successes also, and was exciting to watch when things were clicking. Starting QB at Notre Dame is a big spot to step into, and he experienced his faults on a very high platform. I don't doubt his work ethic nor his commitment to this University, and I certainly will not hang him out to dry this early. I genuinely hope he succeeds here at Notre Dame. In that Wake Forest game, I saw a player who was aggressive on the attack, an instinctual runner who was willing to put his body on the line to score for his team. He left before half time after a crushing hit, and he wasn't quite the same after that. It's difficult to be great when your confidence suffers. He will need to stare the doubt down and overcome.

 

[IrishLion]

This isn't "coaching." That's just hopeful fantasy whistling in the dark. This is central nervous system stuff. Nobody can "coach" someone to be calm under the fire of the real speed and violence around you. You have to find that yourself. That's not IMPOSSIBLE to grow into, but Wimbush does not have that yet. It's up to him.

Maybe just suffering through many reps will ultimately do it --- like conquering stage fright. ND, and especially ND fans, are not known for such patient suffering. Maybe Wimbush will become more than Golson, and maybe he won't, but don't blame the staff for not making his central nervous system different from who he currently is.

Idk, I feel like a top-notch coaching staff and “QB-whisperer” Brian Kelly should have something figured out to help a guy when the lights are too bright, and yet every-other QB for ND has been a head case.

Is it recruiting? If so, they need to figure out how to find guys that aren’t mentally fragile. Find more like Rees and Kizer.

Is something breaking their confidence once they take over? If so, it needs to be identified. Flooded with game prep/not simplifying the week-to-week enough? Not pushing the right buttons to motivate them, causing them to shut down when adversity hits? BK simply being too mean, so guys are freeze up hoping to avoid screwing up?

Some guys truly do have mental hurdles that are too tall to clear... but a guy like BK is getting paid because he’s supposed to know how to break those barriers down anyway, or to at least avoid those cases in the first place.

I used to chalk it up to bad luck when Crist, Hendrix and Golson all looked so mentally shaky, but now with Wimbush, it looks like something deeper.

 

[Irishman77]

Hopefully we see a pkg of Wimbush in the slot to fast track a transition this offseason.

 

[Luckylucci]

coaching has something to do with it, no doubt. However some of this is just as simple as incompetent at making the damn throw. You have to call an offense where you expect your QB to be able to read the defense and make throws. He's obviously capable of doing so at times, but his inconsistency with the game is quite sad. He has soooooooo many easy reads and plays to make and he just doesn't see it/do it, whatever. It's just not happening. He's clearly shook. Dear in headlights and quite honestly, I'm not sure there is a less capable QB in the top 10 as we speak.

He doesn't get the game of football, quite literally. He doesn't see the game, he doesn't understand it, etc.

He's gotten shown out by far less players recently and it's tough to watch.

 

[Luckylucci]

He seems like a great kid and I'll root for him forever, but he probably shouldn't be playing right now. He is hurting this team.

 

[NDohio]

I think whiteflield may be the problem

I agree 100%.

Former NFL QB: "It's amazing agents keep sending their guys to George Whitfield." - FootballScoop

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Can we talk about Brandon's success in the red zone? Not sure the last time an ND offense had as much success as what they did this year. Brandon was so dynamic in that area...Now to focus on the other 80 yards of the field.

 

[brewdog_14527]

I may be wrong, but I think he just needs to get his mechanics in order. His footwork on those easy throws is poor, which is leading to the errant throws. We will see if Rees can coach the QB position, as he gets 15 practices with BW and doesnt' have to think about finals, or much in the way of game plan and can just focus on footwork. Once he gets that, he can just play. He looked indecisive even when running the ball lately, like he knows he is supposed to throw it, but would like to run. Don't forget, there was one poll that came out that had him in the top 10 of Heisman predictors at on point this season. (Can't remember which game that was after.) Maybe he got caught up a bit in trying to be a passer and that hamstrung the his mind and therefore the rest of his game. He definitely is in his own head, which may have been Josh's problem as well, but that is for another thread.

 

[koonja]

I feel like everyone’s on the verge of accepting ‘it’s just mechanics’ and ‘he just needs reps’, and by the time the 2018 season rolls around, we’ll all have been fooled again. Make no mistake about it, first time starters come in and start and finish a heck of a lot better than Wimbush did, and with a far less talented line in front of them. The issues you mentioned are real. But so are the facts that he’s in his 3rd year and noticeably got worse during the season. He’s not even close to progressing. He also can’t see the field, as evidenced by the walk in touchdown he missed to Dexter (although BK probably told him he can’t throw it to Dexter), and the last interception when he stared down the receiver. And countless other examples. He’s not going to get much better. He’s had 3 years and 12 starts, and he’s not close to being any better than he started.

I have no idea what the answer is, but if he’s starting against Michigan, our defense had better be ready to win the game. And Harbaugh will be coaching for his job, so he’ll bring it. BK will be too, but I don’t think he cares as much.

 

[irishff1014]

While getting rid of anxiety is a tall order, if it happens, his ceiling appears to be ridiculously high.

Book could get all the work, but his ceiling is so much lower.

Breakthrough the mental limitations and this kid's physical gifts take over.

I'm all in supporting Brandon on this challenge.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

If he has anxiety that bad he isn’t going to make at ND let alone qb. I’ll let everyone choose how they feel about how people handle it.

If he has it I truly feel bad for him. And since you bring this up Saturday looked exactly like this.

 

[koonja]

If he has anxiety that bad he isn’t going to make at ND let alone qb. I’ll let everyone choose how they feel about how people handle it.

If he has it I truly feel bad for him. And since you bring this up Saturday looked exactly like this.

I don't think that's fair. Some people just can't make split second, mental decisions in a physical environment. He actually doesn't look that nervous, he just doesn't process the field well. Some people who are less intelligent (Baker Mayfield) can do that, some who are smarter can't. It doesn't have anything to do with his ability to make it at ND.

 

[NDohio]

If he has anxiety that bad he isn’t going to make at ND let alone qb. I’ll let everyone choose how they feel about how people handle it.

If he has it I truly feel bad for him. And since you bring this up Saturday looked exactly like this.

He is in the midst of his junior year. I think he has proven that he will make it at ND.

 

[ozzman]

Yes, there is tons of literature on teaching people to cope with pressure and process information under duress. The conclusion is that you can absolutely condition/coach people to behave a certain way under stress.

off topic, this book is great on the subject On Killing

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

If he has anxiety that bad he isn’t going to make at ND let alone qb. I’ll let everyone choose how they feel about how people handle it.

If he has it I truly feel bad for him. And since you bring this up Saturday looked exactly like this.

Woah, cheap shot of the year.

 

[IrishLion]

And Harbaugh will be coaching for his job, so he’ll bring it. BK will be too, but I don’t think he cares as much.

Harbaugh can care all he wants and bring all the intensity he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that he's been mediocre in three straight seasons at scUM.

Until he lucks into another generational college QB, I won't be too worried about him.

 

[koonja]

Harbaugh can care all he wants and bring all the intensity he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that he's been mediocre in three straight seasons at scUM.

Until he lucks into another generational college QB, I won't be too worried about him.

They return like 10 players on a defense that would swallow our offense right now. And their entire offense besides LT, FB, and Speits are coming back. Our QB's are a push.

A really good team might not fear Michigan, but I fully expect to be dogs in week 1.

 

[irishff1014]

z

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Woah, cheap shot of the year.

It wasn’t at all. If you ever had to deal with anyone that has true anxiety you would see it. I deal with it every day. And this is not to offended anyone but I see it more in the young generations which I consider under 40. People can’t help that they get worked up over nothing. It takes time and trying different things to ease it.

A buddy of mine is 33 and running a successful commercial and residential construction company in the field but when it comes time to have sit down job meetings and dealing with all the big wigs he struggles.

I won’t throw out my family situation but when it’s one of your own and you struggle to find ways to help and it makes you sick to your stomach trust me when I say I know all about it. In my situation they can’t handle attention.

SO by no means did I intend to cheap shot anyone.

And as I said in my initial post if he has anxiety if feel for him. Because I know what his support means.

 

[IrishLion]

They return like 10 players on a defense that would swallow our offense right now. And their entire offense besides LT, FB, and Speits are coming back. Our QB's are a push.

A really good team might not fear Michigan, but I fully expect to be dogs in week 1.

All of the things you say about scUM are true for ND, basically, minus we replace two OL and maybe a RB.

The difference is that ND's crappy QB situation is way better than scUM's, because we at least know Wimbush can move the team with his legs. scUM doesn't have a QB that can do anything.

And don't give me projections on Peters or McCaffrey, because those are more useless than trying to predict if Wimbush can improve.

 

[koonja]

All of the things you say about scUM are true for ND, basically, minus we replace two OL and maybe a RB.

The difference is that ND's crappy QB situation is way better than scUM's, because we at least know Wimbush can move the team with his legs. scUM doesn't have a QB that can do anything.

And don't give me projections on Peters or McCaffrey, because those are more useless than trying to predict if Wimbush can improve.

And UM's defense is much better than ours. Please don't kid yourself on that - I think we have a great DC, but so do they and our talent is not close to theirs on defense in 2018.

 

[ozzman]

Their offense looked florida bad against OSU.

 

[IrishLion]

And UM's defense is much better than ours. Please don't kid yourself on that - I think we have a great DC, but so do they and our talent is not close to theirs on defense in 2018.

Right, I'm not debating that. I'm debating that scUM's offense is a total black hole against quality competition due to the QB position, whereas ours at least has some redeeming qualities.

I'm more confident that we figure something out at QB than I am that scUM does the same, which will probably be the difference in next year's game.

(I'm not saying Wimbush improves as a pocket passer, I'm saying it's more likely that our coaching staff figures out how to coach through his issues [like they did against USC] than it is that scUM finds a serviceable option).

 

[IrishLax]

Right, I'm not debating that. I'm debating that scUM's offense is a total black hole against quality competition due to the QB position, whereas ours at least has some redeeming qualities.

I'm more confident that we figure something out at QB than I am that scUM does the same, which will probably be the difference in next year's game.

(I'm not saying Wimbush improves as a pocket passer, I'm saying it's more likely that our coaching staff figures out how to coach through his issues [like they did against USC] than it is that scUM finds a serviceable option).

But next year they'll have Peters back and more experienced, a better OL, and good RBs. And our defense is not going to be world beater. And their defense should be a top 5 squad.

 

[IrishLion]

But next year they'll have Peters back and more experienced, a better OL, and good RBs. And our defense is not going to be world beater. And their defense should be a top 5 squad.

Those projections are nice, but until Harbaugh finds his scUM version of Andrew Luck, I'll keep throwing shade and scoffing at him. He's basically Brian Kelly, except without a national championship appearance under his belt.