'15 NJ QB Brandon Wimbush (Notre Dame Signed NLI)

[IrishLax]

If you were designing an offense for Wimbush, what would it look like? Besides some Navy-esque triple option.

I think I'd have zero RPOs. Everything either a design run or design pass, allow the players to play faster. I'd still keep some zone read with the RB, for sure. You can't completely get rid of screens to the outside and short timing routes but I'd almost completely de-emphasize them. I'd run vertical routes at the DBs on most plays try to hit big ones down the field... boom or bust, but probably enough "booms" if they want to keep their safeties both in the middle of the field that it's efficient offense. Instead of asking Wimbush to read the defense, I'd go with tempo call-it-and-haul style where he has a primary read and then a checkdown and if both are covered he is supposed to tuck and run. Streamline things. All of that is probably easier said than done, but that's what sticks out to me.

 

[IrishLion]

If you were designing an offense for Wimbush, what would it look like? Besides some Navy-esque triple option.

I think I'd have zero RPOs. Everything either a design run or design pass, allow the players to play faster. I'd still keep some zone read with the RB, for sure. You can't completely get rid of screens to the outside and short timing routes but I'd almost completely de-emphasize them. I'd run vertical routes at the DBs on most plays try to hit big ones down the field... boom or bust, but probably enough "booms" if they want to keep their safeties both in the middle of the field that it's efficient offense. Instead of asking Wimbush to read the defense, I'd go with tempo call-it-and-haul style where he has a primary read and then a checkdown and if both are covered he is supposed to tuck and run. Streamline things. All of that is probably easier said than done, but that's what sticks out to me.

Watch every bit of Baylor film that you can find and do that.

Every pass is a hitch, seam or go-route, with the occasional crosser to Stepherson when he lines up in the slot.

Every run is a downhill dive, veer, or backside read.

Literally like 12 plays as a foundation, and then just use formations and personnel groupings to dictate the defensive alignment that your QB will see.

 

[koonja]

If you were designing an offense for Wimbush, what would it look like? Besides some Navy-esque triple option.

I think I'd have zero RPOs. Everything either a design run or design pass, allow the players to play faster. I'd still keep some zone read with the RB, for sure. You can't completely get rid of screens to the outside and short timing routes but I'd almost completely de-emphasize them. I'd run vertical routes at the DBs on most plays try to hit big ones down the field... boom or bust, but probably enough "booms" if they want to keep their safeties both in the middle of the field that it's efficient offense. Instead of asking Wimbush to read the defense, I'd go with tempo call-it-and-haul style where he has a primary read and then a checkdown and if both are covered he is supposed to tuck and run. Streamline things. All of that is probably easier said than done, but that's what sticks out to me.

Watch every bit of Baylor film that you can find and do that.

Every pass is a hitch, seam or go-route, with the occasional crosser to Stepherson when he lines up in the slot.

Every run is a downhill dive, veer, or backside read.

Literally like 12 plays as a foundation, and then just use formations and personnel groupings to dictate the defensive alignment that your QB will see.

Sounds like we need to un-BVG the offense. Which I agree with.

 

[Irishize]

If you were designing an offense for Wimbush, what would it look like? Besides some Navy-esque triple option.

I think I'd have zero RPOs. Everything either a design run or design pass, allow the players to play faster. I'd still keep some zone read with the RB, for sure. You can't completely get rid of screens to the outside and short timing routes but I'd almost completely de-emphasize them. I'd run vertical routes at the DBs on most plays try to hit big ones down the field... boom or bust, but probably enough "booms" if they want to keep their safeties both in the middle of the field that it's efficient offense. Instead of asking Wimbush to read the defense, I'd go with tempo call-it-and-haul style where he has a primary read and then a checkdown and if both are covered he is supposed to tuck and run. Streamline things. All of that is probably easier said than done, but that's what sticks out to me.

I agree with everything but keeping the zone read. I think BW struggles with any kind of option play. It’s not as bad as the RPO but still needs a lot of work. Even Kizer struggled with it at times. What type of offense did BW run in HS? Did it involve zone reads or RPOs? I would bet, no. I’d also bet that his athleticism made playcalling easy at a HS level. IIRC, his completion rate was 70+% which leads me back to your suggestions of letting him see a primary read, checkdown before taking off.

It seems pretty clear what both the ND offensive staff & the opposing D of the bowl matchup are going to do over the next month. ND will work on his passing and come out throwing in the first quarter knowing that the opposing D will take away the run. The opposing D will realize via film (I’m assuming it’s an opponent who hasn’t paid much attn to ND this season) that is NDs Achilles Heel and still make BW beat them with his arm. If he can, Nd should thrive. If he’s throwing screen passes at the feet of receivers, missing long on wide open posts and throwing completions to the other team...it will be another long, embarrassing day for ND.

 

[snoopdog]

BW was 122 out of 125 qualified Div 1 Qb's in completion percentage at 49.8%.

and that's with the defenses stacking the box to stop the run.

to finish 9-3 with level of passing is actually quite impressive.

 

[IrishLax]

BW was 122 out of 125 qualified Div 1 Qb's in completion percentage at 49.8%.

and that's with the defenses stacking the box to stop the run.

to finish 9-3 with level of passing is actually quite impressive.

 

[Kingbish01]

LOLOL...Best use of Jay I've seen all year!

 

[Free Manera]

If you were designing an offense for Wimbush, what would it look like? Besides some Navy-esque triple option.

I think I'd have zero RPOs. Everything either a design run or design pass, allow the players to play faster. I'd still keep some zone read with the RB, for sure. You can't completely get rid of screens to the outside and short timing routes but I'd almost completely de-emphasize them. I'd run vertical routes at the DBs on most plays try to hit big ones down the field... boom or bust, but probably enough "booms" if they want to keep their safeties both in the middle of the field that it's efficient offense. Instead of asking Wimbush to read the defense, I'd go with tempo call-it-and-haul style where he has a primary read and then a checkdown and if both are covered he is supposed to tuck and run. Streamline things. All of that is probably easier said than done, but that's what sticks out to me.

Make the passing game straight air raid with a triangle read progression. Mesh, 4 verts, corner, stick, Y cross. Read the hot, then look for green grass in front of 1, then 2, then 3, if there is no room then either take off or throw it away.

 

[snoopdog]

Make the passing game straight air raid with a triangle read progression. Mesh, 4 verts, corner, stick, Y cross. Read the hot, then look for green grass in front of 1, then 2, then 3, if there is no room then either take off or throw it away.

Need accuracy for that passing game....which is in short supply with BW

 

[Free Manera]

Need accuracy for that passing game....which is in short supply with BW

Well yeah but what passing game doesn't require accuracy. The point with air raid though is simple reads. Leach coaches that you don't even read the defense per se, you just look for green grass.

 

[koonja]

BW was 122 out of 125 qualified Div 1 Qb's in completion percentage at 49.8%.

and that's with the defenses stacking the box to stop the run.

to finish 9-3 with level of passing is actually quite impressive.

Are we even sure he's right handed?

 

[snoopdog]

I doubt Leach would recruit a kid like BW to run his air raid attack, although he was 70%+ in High School....but he did recruit Book...hmmmmmmm

 

[snoopdog]

Are we even sure he's right handed?

Are you asking whether BW is infact Zaire and is just getting back at BK for benching him?

 

[koonja]

Are you asking whether BW is infact Zaire and is just getting back at BK for benching him?

I just don't even know if he's using the correct arm. I was just messing around though, obvi.

 

[arahop]

People can point a finger at Wimbush all they want. Our slightly above average coach is the one to blame. GTFO if you are satisfied with BK.

 

[ab2cmiller]

People can point a finger at Wimbush all they want. Our slightly above average coach is the one to blame. GTFO if you are satisfied with BK.

LOL .... It's a freaking miracle we were able to go 9-3 with a QB that had the worst "on-target" passing rates of any QB on a P5 team.

If you would've asked anyone on this board what our record would be at the beginning of the season with the assumption that Wimbush throws for under 50% and was the most inaccurate passer of any P5 QB. I'm guessing most would've guessed 6-6 at best.

 

[irishff1014]

People can point a finger at Wimbush all they want. Our slightly above average coach is the one to blame. GTFO if you are satisfied with BK.

I am not happy with the coaching but this can’t be real... BW can’t hit a screen pass if his life depended on It. He is clearly a big part of the problem.

 

[Luckylucci]

ISD's Jamie U had a really good breakdown of Wimbush versus Stanford. It makes it really difficult to call an offensive gameplan when he's this incompetent.

With that said, there are certainly things that can be done to maximize his talent. But then I think you have to ask the question, is tailoring an offensive gameplan to Wimbush a better idea than letting Long calls his offense with a different QB?

Can't say I have an opinion on it at this time, but I'm sure I'll form one, as I imagine the coaches are at least contemplating this.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

If you were designing an offense for Wimbush, what would it look like? Besides some Navy-esque triple option.

I think I'd have zero RPOs. Everything either a design run or design pass, allow the players to play faster. I'd still keep some zone read with the RB, for sure. You can't completely get rid of screens to the outside and short timing routes but I'd almost completely de-emphasize them. I'd run vertical routes at the DBs on most plays try to hit big ones down the field... boom or bust, but probably enough "booms" if they want to keep their safeties both in the middle of the field that it's efficient offense. Instead of asking Wimbush to read the defense, I'd go with tempo call-it-and-haul style where he has a primary read and then a checkdown and if both are covered he is supposed to tuck and run. Streamline things. All of that is probably easier said than done, but that's what sticks out to me.

And throw in seam routes to the tight end...make sure those LB's don't creep up to the line and back off a bit and especially make those safeties play deep because of an athletic TE like Kmet (see I didn't say Alize stone hands).

 

[ab2cmiller]

And throw in seam routes to the tight end...make sure those LB's don't creep up to the line and back off a bit and especially make those safeties play deep because of an athletic TE like Kmet (see I didn't say Alize stone hands).

Is a seam route to the TE a good idea for a QB that consistently overthrows his target. It seems like that would be easy pickings for the safeties.

 

[stlnd01]

To me it largely boils down to if you think Wimbush can become a better passer, or not.

They flashed a stat Saturday night that seemed to suggest that 20% of his passes were incomplete due to QB error. Worst in FBS (or maybe P5). That’s terrible and like Lucci said, it’s hard to design an offense when your QB routinely whiffs in swing passes and short outs. Time for a new QB.

But if you can get Wimbush to be even an average, replacement-level passer, we can score a ton of points with this offense. And he has all the tools to be at least that, plus his legs. So it’s hard to give up on him.

I don’t know. Hopefully the coaches can figure it out.

 

[Luckylucci]

To me it largely boils down to if you think Wimbush can become a better passer, or not.

They flashed a stat Saturday night that seemed to suggest that 20% of his passes were incomplete due to QB error. Worst in FBS (or maybe P5). That’s terrible and like Lucci said, it’s hard to design an offense when your QB routinely whiffs in swing passes and short outs. Time for a new QB.

But if you can get Wimbush to be even an average, replacement-level passer, we can score a ton of points with this offense. And he has all the tools to be at least that, plus his legs. So it’s hard to give up on him.

I don’t know. Hopefully the coaches can figure it out.

Certainly, and that's why I said I haven't formed an opinion, per se. It wouldn't be my first move. You have another game and spring ball to get a better feel for the situation. However, I would certainly have a plan that doesn't include him.

 

[snoopdog]

ISD's Jamie U had a really good breakdown of Wimbush versus Stanford. It makes it really difficult to call an offensive gameplan when he's this incompetent.

With that said, there are certainly things that can be done to maximize his talent. But then I think you have to ask the question, is tailoring an offensive gameplan to Wimbush a better idea than letting Long calls his offense with a different QB?

Can't say I have an opinion on it at this time, but I'm sure I'll form one, as I imagine the coaches are at least contemplating this.

I am sure this statement is a massive understatement.

I bet they are discussing it all day every day

 

[snoopdog]

To me it largely boils down to if you think Wimbush can become a better passer, or not.

They flashed a stat Saturday night that seemed to suggest that 20% of his passes were incomplete due to QB error. Worst in FBS (or maybe P5). That’s terrible and like Lucci said, it’s hard to design an offense when your QB routinely whiffs in swing passes and short outs. Time for a new QB.

But if you can get Wimbush to be even an average, replacement-level passer, we can score a ton of points with this offense. And he has all the tools to be at least that, plus his legs. So it’s hard to give up on him.

I don’t know. Hopefully the coaches can figure it out.

It is only my opinion, but I believe with the Loss of McG and Nelson.... next years offense is going to have to be more than smash mouth football.

Long will have to add an element of finesse to move the ball, and I am not sure BW is that guy.

Now the problem is does anybody know if Book, Davis or Phil can be that guy AND does anyone know the locker room dynamics well enough to understand how demoting BW will affect the team.

 

[IrishLion]

Well yeah but what passing game doesn't require accuracy. The point with air raid though is simple reads. Leach coaches that you don't even read the defense per se, you just look for green grass.

This is why I would push for a transition towards Baylor’s spread passing game. No reads at all aside from “is the coverage press or cushion?” BW is throwing deep to the monsters/speedsters on 50/50 balls that don’t require great accuracy, or else he’s hitting a quick curl against soft coverage. Easy (or zero) reads to make. The onus is on the coaching staff to call for the right tempo/formation/personnel. It’s not a totally implausible scenario, either, because BK and Quinn built their UC offense based on a similar vertical-only route tree.

Their running game is what we need if Adams is back, too. Offset shotgun where the RB takes two steps and gets the handoff going straight at the line, rather than crossing the QB’s face. If you want him crossing the QB’s face, it needs to be a true veer or backside read.

 

[arahop]

LOL .... It's a freaking miracle we were able to go 9-3 with a QB that had the worst "on-target" passing rates of any QB on a P5 team.

If you would've asked anyone on this board what our record would be at the beginning of the season with the assumption that Wimbush throws for under 50% and was the most inaccurate passer of any P5 QB. I'm guessing most would've guessed 6-6 at best.

We fell off a cliff the whole last month. Barely beat Navy, Humiliated and totally unprepared for Miami. Got embarrassed again vs an above average Stanford team. It's not the whole picture of 9-3. It's where we've been at under Kelly and where we are headed. Arrow is pointing way down.

 

[Fbolt]

I just want the BW that everyone has referenced all season, not the one i see on game day. Is it confidence?

 

[STLDomer]

BW was 122 out of 125 qualified Div 1 Qb's in completion percentage at 49.8%.

and that's with the defenses stacking the box to stop the run.

to finish 9-3 with level of passing is actually quite impressive.

ESPN had a graphic during the Stanford game that had him as the worst Power 5 QB. This is what I think some don’t understand (including me until Miami really). He was really that bad. Like super bad. Like the worst. Book would have been much better EVEN if you thought Book was a below average option.

 

[snoopdog]

ESPN had a graphic during the Stanford game that had him as the worst Power 5 QB. This is what I think some don’t understand (including me until Miami really). He was really that bad. Like super bad. Like the worst. Book would have been much better EVEN if you thought Book was a below average option.

For me it was like watching Joe Schmitt. Everyone was saying what a great player he was and I am thinking what am I missing here.

 

[arahop]

Wimbush 30 total TDs to 6 interceptions for those of you who think Book would have made this team better are idiotic. Room for Improvement no doubt.