'14 OH QB DeShone Kizer (Notre Dame Signee)

[Sherm Sticky]

Some players peak earlier than others. People assume Kizer would continue to grow leaps and bounds with more experience. That doesn't always happen. He may have reached his ceiling already.

In any case, we can't keep putting the game on his arm and asking him to be perfect every week. We need a running game. Every QB we've done this too in the past has folded eventually, it's too much .

I think he has improved from last year to this year. Has he improved each game this year? No. Was today his worst game of the season? Probably, but I would take his play today every game if ND had a competent defense.

I'm glad you think I'm smarter than accurately assessing QB play or something.



Point is after Texas and Nevada people accurately commended him on nearly flawless play. Against MSU, he was a mixed bag, but there were a lot of different ways to look at what went wrong. Today, he had a lot of collosal mistakes that were just as bad as the angle Studstill took or Nick Coleman's missed tackle. That fumble was inexcusable, on that interception he missed a wide open receiver and gave Duke a short field to get the game winner, and then he imploded on the final drive. It's clear he's regressing and it's a problem.

I feel like you expect him to be perfect. Shit happens sometimes and ever QB has mishandled a snap in game and lost the ball. Are you going to go in EQ's thread and state how is fumble is inexcusable? How his two or three drops he had today cost the team some first downs?

He failed in the final drive. But, what about all the times he has succeeded? Virginia, Stanford, Texas twice. He has succeeded more times than he has failed.

I just think he is pressing, because the defense can't stop anyone.

I can't fault he man for today's game, passing for 300 + yards is pretty damn good. He will have better days though, no doubt.

I don't think he expects Kizer to be anything. He just rightly pointed out some ways that Kizer is not helping the team.



1. Just because he is pressing, that doesn't mean that he isn't making mistakes that are hurting the team.

2. Better QB play could certainly have won the game tonight. And maybe the Texas game as well. We have a backup QB who might be as good, or better than, Kiizer. It would be much easier to swap QBs than to try to swap out the entire defense? So if you are looking for ways to right the ship, THIS year, then a change at QB might make the most sense. That doesn't mean that the QB position is the most to blame. It just means that it is easiest to correct, or maybe "improve" is a better word for it.

Simply put I can't put one once of blame on a guy who scored 3 TDs threw for 381 and led the team in rushing with 60 yards. Basically Kizer would have to play the perfect game for this team to win today.



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[ulukinatme]

uluki, you are correct. Look at the last games he has played. Virginia before he got hurt he was super inconsistent, and the offense was dragging. And this year, looks lost.

Anybody wanting him over Kizer is crazy.

I don't think I said any of that. I don't fault Zaire for the offense sucking against Virginia, not completely. We failed to adjust to the blitzes and didn't change game plans until the 2nd half. I also don't fault him for the poor play calling in the possessions he had against Texas. Do I think he would be better than Kizer? No, only because our running game blows chunks right now, and that starts with our OL. We need to fix our running game, regardless of who is in at QB.

 

[NDRock]

Only from an eligibility standpoint. This is his 3rd year in the program, he's a Junior for all intents and purposes.

I really only care about the eligibility aspect. That's why I said Sophomore. My point was that this isn't a situation that you go with a younger guy and play for the future since Kizer actually has quite a bit of eligibility left (though he could leave after this year).

 

[ulukinatme]

I think he has improved from last year to this year. Has he improved each game this year? No. Was today his worst game of the season? Probably, but I would take his play today every game if ND had a competent defense.

Kizer was not very good today, I wouldn't take this performance every game. He had good yards, but he also had lots of time in the pocket for receivers to move around (Credit OL pass blocking). A lot of QBs can hit receivers in those circumstances. He didn't have his head in the game, lots of mental mistakes, a bad fumble, bad choice on the throw that led to a pick. He missed some easy, open throws by going for the big play...like the open check down to his back on that last series that would have netted us a first down.

 

[ulukinatme]

I really only care about the eligibility aspect. That's why I said Sophomore. My point was that this isn't a situation that you go with a younger guy and play for the future since Kizer actually has quite a bit of eligibility left (though he could leave after this year).

Exactly, the eligibility is kind of a moot point at this juncture. He's not staying for a 5th year I'm betting. Either he gets drafted, or he's probably replaced either way. My statement still stands regarding players peaking. Not every player steadily gets better year after year. Kizer is already a pretty good QB, it's foolish to think he's going to get exponentially better from here on out. I'm just saying he's possibly close to his ceiling already, and he's already a Junior in this system. He's not really an underclassmen that is still learning the offense.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Kizer was not very good today, I wouldn't take this performance every game. He had good yards, but he also had lots of time in the pocket for receivers to move around (Credit OL pass blocking). A lot of QBs can hit receivers in those circumstances. He didn't have his head in the game, lots of mental mistakes, a bad fumble, bad choice on the throw that led to a pick. He missed some easy, open throws by going for the big play...like the open check down to his back on that last series that would have netted us a first down.

IMO he played well enough for the team to win the game. It was his worst performance of he season, but it was still pretty damn good.


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[OlympiaIrishFan]

Sherm, I agree with you on this.

 

[ulukinatme]

IMO he played well enough for the team to win the game. It was his worst performance of he season, but it was still pretty damn good.


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He did play well enough to win, I agree. This loss isn't on him, it's certainly on the defense and special teams. Our main problem offensively is still the running game, because without it we're putting 100% of the offense on Kizer's shoulders, and that always leads to ruin with BK. You can't ask anyone to be perfect.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

He did play well enough to win, I agree. This loss isn't on him, it's certainly on the defense and special teams. Our main problem offensively is still the running game, because without it we're putting 100% of the offense on Kizer's shoulders, and that always leads to ruin with BK. You can't ask anyone to be perfect.

The pass needs to setup the run for this team. Just go pass happy the first 20 plays and then try to hammer the ball.


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[FightingIrishLover7]

I feel like I'm going crazy here.

Are people actually not happy with DeShone?

What is the guy supposed to do? I mean, really? Are we expecting him to be Brady now?

 

[ulukinatme]

The pass needs to setup the run for this team. Just go pass happy the first 20 plays and then try to hammer the ball.


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That's probably a sound plan. We can't get the running game going at the start of games anyway, might as well start by airing it out and let the defense get on their heels a bit before we try to pound it. That, or just commit to fixing the running game and the blocking.

 

[Irishnuke]

I feel like I'm going crazy here.

Are people actually not happy with DeShone?

What is the guy supposed to do? I mean, really? Are we expecting him to be Brady now?

I think people would be happy if he just didn't play like shit. Unfortunately he played like shit.

 

[NDdomer2]

He def has a lot of pressure on him, fairly or not, and that sucks for him. But what ND qb doesn't?

Also, I think it's fair to call an apple an apple. He played poorly today.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I think people would be happy if he just didn't play like shit. Unfortunately he played like shit.

I really don't think he played like shit. But just my opinion.


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[GATTACA!]

I think people would be happy if he just didn't play like shit. Unfortunately he played like shit.

He put up b 35 points. I don't call that shitty and it should have been good enough to win.

 

[Junkhead]

Not his best game, but he is NOT the problem. It wouldn't have even been close without him today.

 

[Irishnuke]

He put up b 35 points. I don't call that shitty and it should have been good enough to win.

He also had 2 horrible turnovers that gave Duke points and looked scared on the last drive. Keep in mind he did that against a terrible Duke defense. He isn't the reason we lost but he definitely contributed to it.

 

[NDRock]

He also had 2 horrible turnovers that gave Duke points and looked scared on the last drive. Keep in mind he did that against a terrible Duke defense. He isn't the reason we lost but he definitely contributed to it.

He had one bad TO, the other was essentially a punt.

 

[irishff1014]

He also had 2 horrible turnovers that gave Duke points and looked scared on the last drive. Keep in mind he did that against a terrible Duke defense. He isn't the reason we lost but he definitely contributed to it.

The brown turn over killed a good drive or about the back up kicker returner going the distance because our corner could tackle a corn stalk.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

He had one bad TO, the other was essentially a punt.

Screw that, I hate that analogy...you punt on 4th down. You punt past the 50, not the ball on your 40. A punt gives opportunity for a hold, block in the back, muffed punt, blocked punt. He took a sack the play before that as well.
I thought he played very meh today. It was freaking Duke. Turnover, almost a pic 6,. Missed throws, that being said, you don't make a change. Zaire's ship has sailed, he's checked out. Unless Kelly is 150% sure Wimbush would beat out Kizer next year, he'd be crazy to make a move now.

 

[GATTACA!]

He also had 2 horrible turnovers that gave Duke points and looked scared on the last drive. Keep in mind he did that against a terrible Duke defense. He isn't the reason we lost but he definitely contributed to it.

His interception didn't give Duke points. So fine penalize his performance for the 7 he gave them on his fumble, 28 points should still be enough to win you that game.

 

[GATTACA!]

Screw that, I hate that analogy...you punt on 4th down. You punt past the 50, not the ball on your 40. A punt gives opportunity for a hold, block in the back, muffed punt, blocked punt. He took a sack the play before that as well.
I thought he played very meh today. It was freaking Duke. Turnover, almost a pic 6,. Missed throws, that being said, you don't make a change. Zaire's ship has sailed, he's checked out. Unless Kelly is 150% sure Wimbush would beat out Kizer next year, he'd be crazy to make a move now.

.....Have you watched Newsome punt this year?

 

[NDRock]

Screw that, I hate that analogy...you punt on 4th down. You punt past the 50, not the ball on your 40. A punt gives opportunity for a hold, block in the back, muffed punt, blocked punt. He took a sack the play before that as well.
I thought he played very meh today. It was freaking Duke. Turnover, almost a pic 6,. Missed throws, that being said, you don't make a change. Zaire's ship has sailed, he's checked out. Unless Kelly is 150% sure Wimbush would beat out Kizer next year, he'd be crazy to make a move now.

You may not like the analogy but the fact is Newsome averaged 47 yards per punt and they averaged 5.5 on the returns. That's a 41.5 net. His pass took us from the 5 to the 45 yard line so we lost 1.5 yards. Not to mention him throwing it downfield gave us a chance for a catch or a PI call.

Why in the heck would you want our Special Teams trotting out there and punting from our own end zone? Have you watched our Special Teams this year? Kier led the team in passing and rushing. Guy is a stud.

How many college QBs would you trade him for right now? Now how many college DCs would you trade Van Gorder for? Your answer will tell you all you need to know about the problems with this team.

 

[Irish Insanity]

DK has been doing a lot of good things, but unfortunately, we need nearly perfect.

This.

Didn't get to catch the game, does anyone think MZ may get a shot? I don't think DK is the problem

I hope not. I'm just now watching the game. And the BK experiment of ensuring he Got some playing time killed a drive before it started. Stupid is putting it lightly.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I think people would be happy if he just didn't play like shit. Unfortunately he played like shit.

Shitty?

He had 3 TDs and like 400 yards of total offense.

And the int was a 45 yarder than would have been a punt from the endzone (that could have been blocked, knowing our special teams).

You realize that he had to play that game by himself, right? The defense wasn't helping. The running game wasn't helping. The pass protect wasn't helping. The play calling wasn't helping (especially the 2nd malik play that killed the drive).

Deshone is playing super well for someone that is only 14 games in.

And if you want to say he's shitty for having a couple turnovers this season, you need to turn back and let me know how Everett did... WHEN HE WENT UNDEFEATED.

The next person that says anything other than Kizer played nobly, or had too much on his shoulders, is getting blocked.

 

[irishtrain]

He def has a lot of pressure on him, fairly or not, and that sucks for him. But what ND qb doesn't?

Also, I think it's fair to call an apple an apple. He played poorly today.

The lack of any run game and the poor defense puts too much on any QB and Kiser looks like he was rode hard and put up wet as the saying goes. This guy has had a great season so far and in my opinion Kelly tends to wear down his Qb's with all pass cant run offense. I still think Kelly is a great coach he just cant do this with it all on a pass game. They need to run at all cost now that the horse is out of the barn and set something up for next year. The way they play defense they really need to run the ball. This is really a bad defense and if he says he's happy with the coaching then I believe him and put it on the players to stop somebody. There are just college guys at Notre Dame not semi pros but this 'd' is really sub par.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Shitty?

He had 3 TDs and like 400 yards of total offense.

And the int was a 45 yarder than would have been a punt from the endzone (that could have been blocked, knowing our special teams).

You realize that he had to play that game by himself, right? The defense wasn't helping. The running game wasn't helping. The pass protect wasn't helping. The play calling wasn't helping (especially the 2nd malik play that killed the drive).

Deshone is playing super well for someone that is only 14 games in.

And if you want to say he's shitty for having a couple turnovers this season, you need to turn back and let me know how Everett did... WHEN HE WENT UNDEFEATED.

The next person that says anything other than Kizer played nobly, or had too much on his shoulders, is getting blocked.

I agree with you.

But half the yahoo's on this site seem to think he played like crap since he had a fumble, an int which was just as good as a punt, mailed it in he last drive and missed some open throws today. They don't seem to understand that his back is hurting for carrying this team.


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[ulukinatme]

Shitty?

He had 3 TDs and like 400 yards of total offense.

And the int was a 45 yarder than would have been a punt from the endzone (that could have been blocked, knowing our special teams).

You realize that he had to play that game by himself, right? The defense wasn't helping. The running game wasn't helping. The pass protect wasn't helping. The play calling wasn't helping (especially the 2nd malik play that killed the drive).

Deshone is playing super well for someone that is only 14 games in.

And if you want to say he's shitty for having a couple turnovers this season, you need to turn back and let me know how Everett did... WHEN HE WENT UNDEFEATED.

The next person that says anything other than Kizer played nobly, or had too much on his shoulders, is getting blocked.

To be fair, a lot of QBs can put up those kind of stats with all the time he had in the pocket. We just got beat by a freshman QB who put up 300 yards passing, 3 TDs, had fewer incompletions, and he was quick passing almost every down instead of allowing guys to get open deep. I'm not saying Kizer has been awful, he's played well up till today, but we need more earthly expectations of him. He's been put on a pedestal up till now.

 

[irishtrain]

He's certainly not the primary problem, but it's pretty clear to me now that he's not nearly the difference maker we thought he was.

Today he was erratic and missed tons of open receivers. He also has two turnovers. He didn't get it done on the last drive. And he checks out of sooooo many plays into stuff that Kelly clearly doesn't want him running.

I contrast how he looked today to how he looked in his last drive against Clemson and against Stanford and I just don't get it. Seems to have no emotion this year... almost like he begrudges the situation instead of relishing in it. I'd grade him out as a C- against a bad opponent and that might be generous.

He can't carry the burden of the whole thing-he doesn't block-he doesnt take handoffs-and he sure isn't playing defense.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

To be fair, a lot of QBs can put up those kind of stats with all the time he had in the pocket. We just got beat by a freshman QB who put up 300 yards passing, 3 TDs, had fewer incompletions, and he was quick passing almost every down instead of allowing guys to get open deep. I'm not saying Kizer has been awful, he's played well up till today, but we need more earthly expectations of him. He's been put on a pedestal up till now.

"more earthly expectations"?

You're the one saying he played crappy.... You're the one that needs more realistic expectations.

He did not play great. But he definitely, definitely played well enough to win a football game.

If that fucking defense would have given up just one less TD, we won, with his, "shitty game".