'13 CA S Max Redfield (Notre Dame Signed LOI)

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Plea deal from August arrest falls thru for former Irish safety Max Redfield because he failed a drug test before today's sentencing: <a href="https://t.co/zHiynkBPMc">https://t.co/zHiynkBPMc</a></p>— Angelo Di Carlo (@angdicarlowndu) <a href="https://twitter.com/angdicarlowndu/status/811228976391815168">December 20, 2016</a></blockquote>
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ulukinatme

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Plea deal from August arrest falls thru for former Irish safety Max Redfield because he failed a drug test before today's sentencing: <a href="https://t.co/zHiynkBPMc">https://t.co/zHiynkBPMc</a></p>— Angelo Di Carlo (@angdicarlowndu) <a href="https://twitter.com/angdicarlowndu/status/811228976391815168">December 20, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Glad to see Redfield has gotten his head on straight. What a waste of talent.
 

phgreek

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Maybe it wasn't Maryjane...but seems most likely.

So when does continued stupid "mistakes" related to Maryjane mean addiction?

When can you say...you know what, this is out of this young man's control. Because people will fall on their sword to say Maryjane is not addictive...well, it is mind altering, and the escape it provides IS addictive. So whats the difference?
 

NDPhilly

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Maybe it wasn't Alcohol...but seems most likely.

So when does continued stupid "mistakes" related to Alcohol mean addiction?

When can you say...you know what, this is out of this young man's control. Because people will fall on their sword to say Alcohol is not addictive...well, it is mind altering, and the escape it provides IS addictive. So whats the difference?

Hmm good point never thought of it that way
 
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woolybug25

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Maybe it wasn't Maryjane...but seems most likely.

So when does continued stupid "mistakes" related to Maryjane mean addiction?

When can you say...you know what, this is out of this young man's control. Because people will fall on their sword to say Maryjane is not addictive...well, it is mind altering, and the escape it provides IS addictive. So whats the difference?

You could literally say that about anything. Should an adulterous be let off the hook because he's addicted to Tinder. Should a thief be let off the hook because he claims he's a kleptomaniac? The reality is that all actions are addictive. Blaming a substance with less addictive chemical properties than coffee seems pretty silly.

It also doesn't explain why he felt the need to have a gun either. Maybe his addiction is to stupidity.
 

Wingman Ray

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Idiot -- hope he can turn it around

I have a stepbrother who had every, and I mean every, opportunity to succeed. Only child to my stepmother and screwed up time and time again. Drugs, alcohol, theft....you name it. Fast forward age 44 and he still cant keep a job, and he has had some good ones, because he fails company drug tests or misses too many days due to hangovers, etc.

Some people just suck and fail not matter how much charity is thrown their way.

I understand the need for compassion but at some point, you have to say bye
 

bkess8

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Change starts first with the decision to make a change. If you can't get past that step you won't get anywhere!

Hopefully he figures himself out!
 

phgreek

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You could literally say that about anything. Should an adulterous be let off the hook because he's addicted to Tinder. Should a thief be let off the hook because he claims he's a kleptomaniac? The reality is that all actions are addictive. Blaming a substance with less addictive chemical properties than coffee seems pretty silly.

It also doesn't explain why he felt the need to have a gun either. Maybe his addiction is to stupidity.

Did I say let him off?

Not even going to address adultery and kleptomania in this context...They are strictly behavioral. Want to talk about things you eat, drink, smoke or otherwise ingest...then I think there is some relationship.

I think you, and some others kinda exemplified my original point. All I'm saying is...as people rush to say Maryjane isn't addictive, they seem to create this environment where you can't say someone is addicted to it. ie the research doesn't remove the possibility he has an addictive predisposition to that substance.

So as the great Maryjane defenders and citizen lobbyists jump in...I worry that has an impact on how abuse of the substance is viewed...and ultimately how recovery resources are applied.

BTW, I am generally a rules/laws guy. I do believe people can make honest mistakes when said rules and laws lack clarity...however accountability is important to me. I think Max deserves to face the music, but I also believe he needs THE SAME resources made available to him as any other substance abuser.
 

woolybug25

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Did I say let him off?

Not even going to address adultery and kleptomania in this context...They are strictly behavioral. Want to talk about things you eat, drink, smoke or otherwise ingest...then I think there is some relationship.

I think you, and some others kinda exemplified my original point. All I'm saying is...as people rush to say Maryjane isn't addictive, they seem to create this environment where you can't say someone is addicted to it. ie the research doesn't remove the possibility he has an addictive predisposition to that substance.

So as the great Maryjane defenders and citizen lobbyists jump in...I worry that has an impact on how abuse of the substance is viewed...and ultimately how recovery resources are applied.

BTW, I am generally a rules/laws guy. I do believe people can make honest mistakes when said rules and laws lack clarity...however accountability is important to me. I think Max deserves to face the music, but I also believe he needs THE SAME resources made available to him as any other substance abuser.

I think you're missing my point entirely. Studies have shown time and time again that there is little to no chemical properties in cannabis that are addictive. Any addiction is entirely a behavioral one. Which make a kleptomaniac or sex addict quite relevant in comparison.

With actual chemical addictions like alcohol or narcotics, the resources involve both medicinal and psychological approaches. But any addictive qualities of marijuana cannot and should not be treated that way. They should be looked at differently because it's the psychological aspect of using it on a pattern of self destruction that has to be treated. Not the non existent chemical dependency that you see in alcohol and narcodics.
 

tussin

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You could literally say that about anything. Should an adulterous be let off the hook because he's addicted to Tinder. Should a thief be let off the hook because he claims he's a kleptomaniac? The reality is that all actions are addictive. Blaming a substance with less addictive chemical properties than coffee seems pretty silly.

It also doesn't explain why he felt the need to have a gun either. Maybe his addiction is to stupidity.

Welcome back.
 

phgreek

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I think you're missing my point entirely. Studies have shown time and time again that there is little to no chemical properties in cannabis that are addictive. Any addiction is entirely a behavioral one. Which make a kleptomaniac or sex addict quite relevant in comparison.

With actual chemical addictions like alcohol or narcotics, the resources involve both medicinal and psychological approaches. But any addictive qualities of marijuana cannot and should not be treated that way. They should be looked at differently because it's the psychological aspect of using it on a pattern of self destruction that has to be treated. Not the non existent chemical dependency that you see in alcohol and narcodics.



https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive

Everything I've read indicates a relatively small percentage of people develop addiction in a physical/chemical sense. I define addiction as having an impact on your chemistry such that you need more to achieve a "high" if you are a frequent user, your use is prioritized over other things to your life's detriment, and you experience physical impairment when taken away entirely.

Numbers vary among studies but most assign 9% as those who become addicted in a physical/chemical way.

you are correct that currently, no medications are used in treatment of THC addiction...but I think that is due to a number of perception/political factors. Studies are ongoing in evaluating of a number of drugs to help treat THC addiction (most are to help set sleep patterns)

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/available-treatments-marijuana-use-disorders

So I think THC is likley oversold as "non-addictive". It may be less addictive, and have smaller population sensitive to it in a chemical way, and its easier to get off of, but it isn't without instances of Chemical dependency.

As such I hope the political climate does not impact the medical/research and treatment arenas.
 

woolybug25

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https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive

Everything I've read indicates a relatively small percentage of people develop addiction in a physical/chemical sense. I define addiction as having an impact on your chemistry such that you need more to achieve a "high" if you are a frequent user, your use is prioritized over other things to your life's detriment, and you experience physical impairment when taken away entirely.

Numbers vary among studies but most assign 9% as those who become addicted in a physical/chemical way.

you are correct that currently, no medications are used in treatment of THC addiction...but I think that is due to a number of perception/political factors. Studies are ongoing in evaluating of a number of drugs to help treat THC addiction (most are to help set sleep patterns)

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/available-treatments-marijuana-use-disorders

So I think THC is likley oversold as "non-addictive". It may be less addictive, and have smaller population sensitive to it in a chemical way, and its easier to get off of, but it isn't without instances of Chemical dependency.

As such I hope the political climate does not impact the medical/research and treatment arenas.

So even though there are single digit percentages of chemical addictions (btw, sexual addiction has a higher chemical reaction from hormones, etc), you hope the political climate doesn't undersell that single digit data and not treat it like heroin, cocaine, etc?

I guess you lost me here.
 

phgreek

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So even though there are single digit percentages of chemical addictions (btw, sexual addiction has a higher chemical reaction from hormones, etc), you hope the political climate doesn't undersell that single digit data and not treat it like heroin, cocaine, etc?

I guess you lost me here.

Apparently, but I didn't say what you took away...so that might be it.

I did say that there are instances of addiction to Maryjane, but in everyone's haste to defend the fact that it "Isn't Addictive", IMHO, that threatens to interfere with diagnosis, treatment, and furthering the study of it.

By the way...the single digits I was talking about is 9%. When can I be concerned...12%, 15%, 17.5%, 22%.

By the numbers I've seen, about 94 Million folks in the US ADMIT to using Maryjane...so thats about 8.5 Million Folks who might have a substance abuse disorder related to Maryjane. Seems like enough to be concerned about.

CDC thinks 2.1 Million have an issue related to Opioids, and there is no shortage of understanding, help, research and education for those folks.

Sure THC addiction, and unraveling of one's life is less immediate and apparent than that experienced with opioids, and THC addiction is much easier to recover from...but thats not saying it doesn't happen, and that folks don't need to be supported.
 
N

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Marijuana IS addictive in my opinion. I live in Vancouver and grew up on Vancouver Island. I've seen many friends and family members be addicted to Marijuana. It's true. Regarding Max, this is pathetic. He had a plea deal and blew it when he must've known was hanging on him passing a drug test. No excuse for that. He screwed ND and his teammates and screwed himself and his future. Shame on him.
 

woolybug25

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Apparently, but I didn't say what you took away...so that might be it.

I did say that there are instances of addiction to Maryjane, but in everyone's haste to defend the fact that it "Isn't Addictive", IMHO, that threatens to interfere with diagnosis, treatment, and furthering the study of it.

By the way...the single digits I was talking about is 9%. When can I be concerned...12%, 15%, 17.5%, 22%.

By the numbers I've seen, about 94 Million folks in the US ADMIT to using Maryjane...so thats about 8.5 Million Folks who might have a substance abuse disorder related to Maryjane. Seems like enough to be concerned about.

CDC thinks 2.1 Million have an issue related to Opioids, and there is no shortage of understanding, help, research and education for those folks.

Sure THC addiction, and unraveling of one's life is less immediate and apparent than that experienced with opioids, and THC addiction is much easier to recover from...but thats not saying it doesn't happen, and that folks don't need to be supported.

Spare me. There's probably more Americans addicted to chewing ice, and chipped teeth is far worse than any side effect of marijuana. Your worried that weed won't get proper research or education? That's laughable. It's probably the most researched and debated drug on the planet. Acting like we should be worried about more research on flipping weed when we have addiction epidemics with narcotics like meth, cocaine and heroin distracts from actually getting results and helping people. Maybe we should look at the underlying mental health issues before we worry about the effects of a "drug" with less health side effects than soda pop.
 

phgreek

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Spare me. There's probably more Americans addicted to chewing ice, and chipped teeth is far worse than any side effect of marijuana. Your worried that weed won't get proper research or education? That's laughable. It's probably the most researched and debated drug on the planet. Acting like we should be worried about more research on flipping weed when we have addiction epidemics with narcotics like meth, cocaine and heroin distracts from actually getting results and helping people. Maybe we should look at the underlying mental health issues before we worry about the effects of a "drug" with less health side effects than soda pop.

Bit Hyberbolic...

Didn't say ignore the other drug issues...said weed can be one as well. Don't believe concern about weed addiction is misplaced, given the prevailing attitudes (on display here) and its blossoming use and availability.

Quote from Rand Corp. Study of California:

"Past research provides solid evidence that marijuana consumption goes up when prices go down, but the magnitude of the consumption increase cannot be predicted because prices will fall to levels below those ever studied, researchers say. Consumption also might rise because of non-price effects such as advertising or a reduction in stigma, researchers say.

In addition to uncertainty about the taxes levied and evaded, researchers do not know how users will respond to such a large drop in price. Even under a scenario with high taxes ($50 per ounce) and a moderate rate of tax evasion (25 percent), researchers cannot rule out consumption increases of 50 percent to 100 percent, and possibly even larger. If prevalence increased by 100 percent, marijuana use in California would be close to the prevalence levels recorded in the late 1970s."


I think it is safe to say consumption numbers will increase, thus will the raw numbers of addicts.

Having some concern for this issue does not necessarily take away from other research to any degree, especially if the support comes from the tax on weed sales.

Also with regard to research, I was referring to Treatment options. As you noted, there is no recognized medication to help weed addicts. However as I noted previously, there are ongoing trials to help treat weed addicts with medication.

Interesting you should use the word epidemic. I was wondering about that, so I looked up Heroin, since that one seems to be a growing concern. It appears there are 1.5 million people dealing with heroin addiction up from 700K in 2010. As I mentioned before, this is certainly more serious a concern case by case than weed. But if 8.5 Million (estimated) weed addicts don't rate...can you tell me the number that makes this worth thinking about, because we will be increasing that number...just want to know when its ok? If consumption doubles...17M people enough then?
 
C

Cackalacky

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Max is such a jack ass. All you had to do was not smoke pot for a few months. Dumb. Dumb dumb.
As far as marijuana being addictive goes.... �� I would love to meet a weed addict.
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Now cheese .... on the other hand.....that is straight up a killer and addictive. I dont see that on any drug list.
 

woolybug25

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Bit Hyberbolic...

Didn't say ignore the other drug issues...said weed can be one as well. Don't believe concern about weed addiction is misplaced, given the prevailing attitudes (on display here) and its blossoming use and availability.

Quote from Rand Corp. Study of California:

"Past research provides solid evidence that marijuana consumption goes up when prices go down, but the magnitude of the consumption increase cannot be predicted because prices will fall to levels below those ever studied, researchers say. Consumption also might rise because of non-price effects such as advertising or a reduction in stigma, researchers say.

In addition to uncertainty about the taxes levied and evaded, researchers do not know how users will respond to such a large drop in price. Even under a scenario with high taxes ($50 per ounce) and a moderate rate of tax evasion (25 percent), researchers cannot rule out consumption increases of 50 percent to 100 percent, and possibly even larger. If prevalence increased by 100 percent, marijuana use in California would be close to the prevalence levels recorded in the late 1970s."


I think it is safe to say consumption numbers will increase, thus will the raw numbers of addicts.

Having some concern for this issue does not necessarily take away from other research to any degree, especially if the support comes from the tax on weed sales.

Also with regard to research, I was referring to Treatment options. As you noted, there is no recognized medication to help weed addicts. However as I noted previously, there are ongoing trials to help treat weed addicts with medication.

Interesting you should use the word epidemic. I was wondering about that, so I looked up Heroin, since that one seems to be a growing concern. It appears there are 1.5 million people dealing with heroin addiction up from 700K in 2010. As I mentioned before, this is certainly more serious a concern case by case than weed. But if 8.5 Million (estimated) weed addicts don't rate...can you tell me the number that makes this worth thinking about, because we will be increasing that number...just want to know when its ok? If consumption doubles...17M people enough then?

Two points:

1) Obviously you don't (or the author) know much about the economics of dispensaries. Legal weed is much more expensive than street weed. Often more than twice the price. Demand isn't going to increase because of availability, it would only increase because of people getting educated on it and the stigma going away. It's also safer, as its regulated and not coming over stuffed up the asses of livestock.

2) I don't give two shits how many people use it. Because it's safe and far less damaging to society than currently legal drugs like liquor, painkillers and tobacco.
 
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