Nov 7 | Miami

NDdomer2

NDdomer2

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This actually scares me. It was reported we didn't take bye week to prep for Navy. Assumption from me is that we used it to partially prep for Miami.

We were two days into install/full game plan for primary objective of stopping Toney.

We already have issues getting aligned pre-snap, and either changing things mid week, or sticking with game plan and getting surprised on game day with things we've never seen before like seem like recipes for more pre-snap alignment/communication issues.
 
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PutuporShutup

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IrishFanForever23 said:
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Clemson played 2 high safety a ton, and pretty much always had safety help over top on Toney no matter where he went. Notre dame will now be able to play a normal secondary defense and pay a little more attention to the run. Miami still has capable WRs, but no one that you have to modify your D for. Stopping Miami run game just became priority 1.
 
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IrishFanForever23

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PutuporShutup said:
Clemson played 2 high safety a ton, and pretty much always had safety help over top on Toney no matter where he went. Notre dame will now be able to play a normal secondary defense and pay a little more attention to the run. Miami still has capable WRs, but no one that you have to modify your D for. Stopping Miami run game just became priority 1.
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They're going to feed Fletcher and Mallory to take some pressure off Mensah. When Mensah has to throw, he'll look for Barkate and Lofton since ND struggled with guarding TE's.
 
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arrowryan

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NDdomer2 said:
This actually scares me. It was reported we didn't take bye week to prep for Navy. Assumption from me is that we used it to partially prep for Miami.

We were two days into install/full game plan for primary objective of stopping Toney.

We already have issues getting aligned pre-snap, and either changing things mid week, or sticking with game plan and getting surprised on game day with things we've never seen before like seem like recipes for more pre-snap alignment/communication issues.
Click to expand...

So you’d rather him play?
 
Dale

Dale

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PutuporShutup said:
They are going to have to create a completely new game plan
Click to expand...

No they won’t. They will run Shannon Dawson’s offense.

What became a lot harder is Mensah’s reads as well as likely far fewer explosives due to YAC of Toney. But I expect the offense to change very little.
 
greyhammer90

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NDdomer2 said:
This actually scares me. It was reported we didn't take bye week to prep for Navy. Assumption from me is that we used it to partially prep for Miami.

We were two days into install/full game plan for primary objective of stopping Toney.

We already have issues getting aligned pre-snap, and either changing things mid week, or sticking with game plan and getting surprised on game day with things we've never seen before like seem like recipes for more pre-snap alignment/communication issues.
Click to expand...

I'vr had this thought too but it's not like the plan was to cover Toney and let the other guys get open. You can still play the defense you wanted to play against their looks, you just don't have as dynamic of a playmaker to worry about. I think the biggest risk is that we find out Mensah is actually a better distributor than we anticipated and he was just force feeding Toney and checkdowns because he knew he could against their schedule. My whole mindset for being confident in the defense is that Mensah appears to be a checkdown/Toney merchant. If he's not, then we're going to need the pass rush to have the best game of the season.
 
rtrn2glory

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what are the odds that Ash has had a good plan in place for them that he's been working on for weeks/months and it'll be gorgeous Saturday night?
 
YonkersEejit

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IrishFanForever23 said:
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That's fine and dandy. However, Toney accounts for 1,027 receiving yards and 13 tds.

Yardage wise, that's more than the next 4 WRs combined. TDs wise, that's more than their next 7 WRs combined.

It's a massive loss for Miami.

Cooper Barkate is very solid, respectable WR. Moore can shut him out, though (should Ash/Freeman go that route).
 
Irish#1

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PutuporShutup said:
The point of the zone vs BYU was to keep eyes on Bear if he scrambles, and to contain all the gadget plays. The issue with it is we didn't dial up much pressure and Bear doesn't scramble, almost all of his runs are designed runs.

Going man doesn't mean 1v1 or makes it easier to stop the run. It just makes it not as obvious where the hole will be in the defense, especially post snap. Also, going man would say ND isn't as concerned with Mensah running, even though he's capable and will probalby need to a big saturday night.

KVA isn't being talked about enough, he needs to ball out.
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I am expecting a lot more man with someone keeping and eye on Mensah. I just wish Brewu was going to play.
 
YonkersEejit

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If we allow them (just like we inexplicably did against BYU), I think you'll see a lot of short, quick routes/passes and a heavy dose of Fletcher and Mallory. I think Miami tries to run the ball, control the clock, limit possessions, and dink and dunk down the field. We need to play up close and aggressive.
 
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PutuporShutup

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Dale said:
No they won’t. They will run Shannon Dawson’s offense.

What became a lot harder is Mensah’s reads as well as likely far fewer explosives due to YAC of Toney. But I expect the offense to change very little.
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Come on, yes they're going to run Dawson's offense but their plan of attack will be completely different. They aren't going to draw up in the dirt brand new plays, but it will be a completely different plan of attack.

The slot WR has been the focal point of the offense, especially passing offense for 4 years now for Miami under Dawson, and Miami 3 days before the game lost one of the best slot wrs in the history of college football. Xavier and then Malchi dominated targets, receptions and yards the last 4 years.

Toney went out vs wake banged up after he scored a TD when they were up 31-13. Miami the rest of the game went 3 and out for 3 yards, 3 and out for -1 yards, 3 and out for 1 yard, 4 and out for 6 yards, 6 plays for 9 yards to end game. Miami won't be that bad, but they aren't the same.

Who are they going to have step into the slot? No matter who, they haven't played there much with Miami. I'd guess a rotation of players.
The reads on plays are probably going to be very different
Situational play calls will be very different
They will most likely utilize the run game more
They will most likely utilize the TEs in the pass game more
I guarantee they had reverses/trick plays in the bag with toney heavily involved in them (his ability to throw)

I'm not trying to undersell that miami's offense won't be good, it will still be good, but it's not the same, not even close losing toney at all let alone 3 days before the game.
 
Irish#1

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YonkersEejit said:
If we allow them (just like we inexplicably did against BYU), I think you'll see a lot of short, quick routes/passes and a heavy dose of Fletcher and Mallory. I think Miami tries to run the ball, control the clock, limit possessions, and dink and dunk down the field. We need to play up close and aggressive.
Click to expand...
We played a non-aggressive D against BYU and Navy in the first half, for different reasons. Ash or MF got aggressive in the second half of both games with success. I expect MF is going to have Ash call an aggressive D from the start. The other concern with Ash is he is slow to make adjustments in the first half. That is where Al shined.
 
Wild Bill

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Bowen is out, Brewu and Onye may be out and if they play they will not be full strength, KVA has been injured or playing injured all year, and Miami's defense is shit.

Would make sense for Miami to run the snot out of the ball, shorten the game adn keep their defense off the field.
 
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Canes4theWin

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PutuporShutup said:
Come on, yes they're going to run Dawson's offense but their plan of attack will be completely different. They aren't going to draw up in the dirt brand new plays, but it will be a completely different plan of attack.

The slot WR has been the focal point of the offense, especially passing offense for 4 years now for Miami under Dawson, and Miami 3 days before the game lost one of the best slot wrs in the history of college football. Xavier and then Malchi dominated targets, receptions and yards the last 4 years.

Toney went out vs wake banged up after he scored a TD when they were up 31-13. Miami the rest of the game went 3 and out for 3 yards, 3 and out for -1 yards, 3 and out for 1 yard, 4 and out for 6 yards, 6 plays for 9 yards to end game. Miami won't be that bad, but they aren't the same.

Who are they going to have step into the slot? No matter who, they haven't played there much with Miami. I'd guess a rotation of players.
The reads on plays are probably going to be very different
Situational play calls will be very different
They will most likely utilize the run game more
They will most likely utilize the TEs in the pass game more
I guarantee they had reverses/trick plays in the bag with toney heavily involved in them (his ability to throw)

I'm not trying to undersell that miami's offense won't be good, it will still be good, but it's not the same, not even close losing toney at all let alone 3 days before the game.
Click to expand...
Offense has not looked nearly as good without Toney and it’s been driving me crazy that we haven’t put him on the bench more in games when we’re up big so we could get more chances for other WRs to step up.

Moore was our clear #3 guy but is out for the season. We’ve got some promising guys but hey havent had a ton of chances to develop.

With that said, I still trust our offense more than our defense. I don’t think we have bad players we just need to put them in a position to be successful
 
Jimmy3Putt

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Irish#1 said:
We played a non-aggressive D against BYU and Navy in the first half, for different reasons. Ash or MF got aggressive in the second half of both games with success. I expect MF is going to have Ash call an aggressive D from the start. The other concern with Ash is he is slow to make adjustments in the first half. That is where Al shined.
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Al was a second drive adjuster, not second half!
 
TremendoCaballero

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Canes4theWin said:
Offense has not looked nearly as good without Toney and it’s been driving me crazy that we haven’t put him on the bench more in games when we’re up big so we could get more chances for other WRs to step up.

Moore was our clear #3 guy but is out for the season. We’ve got some promising guys but hey havent had a ton of chances to develop.

With that said, I still trust our offense more than our defense. I don’t think we have bad players we just need to put them in a position to be successful
Click to expand...
Elija Lofton game? 🤔
 
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BigErnMcCracken

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Wild Bill said:
Bowen is out, Brewu and Onye may be out and if they play they will not be full strength, KVA has been injured or playing injured all year, and Miami's defense is shit.

Would make sense for Miami to run the snot out of the ball, shorten the game adn keep their defense off the field.
Click to expand...
It would be beyond shocking if Brewu and Onye play, unfortunately.
 
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PutuporShutup

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Canes4theWin said:
Offense has not looked nearly as good without Toney and it’s been driving me crazy that we haven’t put him on the bench more in games when we’re up big so we could get more chances for other WRs to step up.

Moore was our clear #3 guy but is out for the season. We’ve got some promising guys but hey havent had a ton of chances to develop.

With that said, I still trust our offense more than our defense. I don’t think we have bad players we just need to put them in a position to be successful
Click to expand...
This game is where you find out 2 things.

How good Mensah really is having just "normal good" receivers and not having an all world dynamic security blanket that other teams scheme against.

Also, where the Oline is at. I think there will be a little more attention given by ND now in stopping Miami's run game and pressuring Mensah. I'm guessing ND will be without their top DT, and another good DT that was a starter to open season.
 
Jonaz

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Honestly we cant lose here.

When we win, we win.

If we somehow don't Ash gets fired on Saturday night.
 
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