Updated 30y Football ROI

[Whiskeyjack]

Payscale released a new College ROI ranking for 2012, which I used to generate an updated Football ROI. 2012 GSR data won't be released until sometime this summer, so I'll be updating again in the near future.

An excellent explanation of the methodology behind Payscale's ranking can be found here. They made a couple significant changes from last year's methodology: (1) they used 75th percentile pay for high school grads as the baseline instead of the median pay, since it better reflects the higher likely earnings of those who succeeded in being admitted to college; and (2) they've incorporated financial aid into the analysis. For the purposes of Football ROI, the latter is irrelevant, but the former has dramatically lowered the overall ROI.

There weren't many notable moves among our ranking, but the following may be of interest:

• Duke passed ND, taking the #2 spot behind Stanford, in Overall Football ROI and Caucasian Football ROI (but they never really recruit against us, so... meh)
• Stanford and ND maintained roughly the same positions relative to each other.
• ND still offers the best degree value to African American recruits, though not by the same large margin (Duke is close behind)
• Stanford, Duke, and ND are the only 3 BCS schools who offer a 7-figure ROI to football recruits, and they lead the rest of the pack by a huge margin; Vanderbilt, the #4 school in all 3 rankings, isn't even close.
• The bottom-dwellers moved from pathetic to truly atrocious; SCar and USF (ahem) don't even manage to break 6-figures in African American Football ROI.

ND's degree value for African American football players v. various recruiting rivals:
Stanford- 10% greater
Rutgers- 2x greater
Northwestern- 2x greater
Penn State- 2.5x greater
Michigan- 3x greater
USC- 3x greater
UF- 3.5x greater
LSU- 4x greater
Texas- 4x greater
'Bama- 5x greater
OSU- 5x greater
Oklahoma- 6x greater
FSU- 10x greater
USF- 12x greater
SCar- 17x greater

 

[BGIF]

Nice work, as usual.

 

[ChiRish]

Great stuff. The numbers for South Carolina and USF are flat out embarrassing to college athletics.

 

[DCIrish]

It's interesting to see the value of a ND degree compared to others, but for things like this to matter to many recruits ND has to do better on the field. They are some who truly put academics first, but they're not many. Most of the players ND needs to be great are looking at schools that consistently put players in the NFL and compete for championships. It's been years since you can say ND has really done that. Schools like Alabama, LSU and USC are more attractive options for most kids despite the value of a ND degree. That won't change unless ND stops being mediocre on the field.

 

[irishmarine]

We need to offer both options

 

[NDinFL]

I can't rep Whiskey anymore, someone rep this man for his great work

 

[NDFan4Life]

I can't rep Whiskey anymore, someone rep this man for his great work

Done.

 

[DaBLKIrishman]

Wish more recruits would pay attention to statistics like these. Great work!

 

[phork]

Thank God our milkshake pulls all the kids to the yard.

PS: Good work as usual.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Wish more recruits would pay attention to statistics like these. Great work!

Some recent comments from ND's recruiting targets imply that the coaching staff is heavily relying on statistics like these in their recruiting pitches. Brings a tear to my eye.

Just wish I had heard something back when I ran this ranking up the Athletic Department's flagpole...

 

[phork]

Some recent comments from ND's recruiting targets imply that the coaching staff is heavily relying on statistics like these in their recruiting pitches. Brings a tear to my eye.

Just wish I had heard something back when I ran this ranking up the Athletic Department's flagpole...

If they are using these statistics that means its in one ear and out the other for these kids, and most parents. The true measure is "How fast can you get me to the NFL".

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Neat information.
I am a bit surprised that Notre Dame is ahead of Stanford.

To be honest, I'm surprised that Stanford doesn't have a top 5 recruiting class every year given their location, pay scale, and quality of women on campus.

 

[jimmymac]

Neat information.
I am a bit surprised that Notre Dame is ahead of Stanford.

To be honest, I'm surprised that Stanford doesn't have a top 5 recruiting class every year given their location, pay scale, and quality of women on campus.

?? You've clearly never been to Stanford or met Stanford women...

 

[beryirish]

Thank God our milkshake pulls all the kids to the yard.

PS: Good work as usual.

Then their true milkshake pulls them back...

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Once we start winning again this will be able to win us recruiting battles.

 

[ACamp1900]

Once we start winning again this will be able to win us recruiting battles.

Ah, but will we ever start winning on the field again without first winning those recruiting battles???...

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Then their true milkshake pulls them back...

I literally laughed out loud.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If they are using these statistics that means its in one ear and out the other for these kids, and most parents. The true measure is "How fast can you get me to the NFL".

Lax has previously made this same point about "football first" kids-- that we'll never get recruits that are simply interested in the path of least resistance to the NFL. Fortunately for us, there are more than enough blue chip recruits who realize the need to insure against the overwhelming likelihood that they won't have a long and productive career as a pro athlete, and that one obviously wants the best insurance policy available.

Whether there are enough such blue chip recruits to share with Stanford is another question entirely.

Neat information.
I am a bit surprised that Notre Dame is ahead of Stanford.

To be honest, I'm surprised that Stanford doesn't have a top 5 recruiting class every year given their location, pay scale, and quality of women on campus.

ND leads Stanford only in African American Football ROI. For Caucasian recruits, Stanford offers 14.5% more value. Stanford doesn't reel in top-5 classes annually for the same reasons we don't: (1) high standards (for both academics and character); and (2) fierce competition for that small pool of qualified elite recruits.

Once we start winning again this will be able to win us recruiting battles.

Absolutely. We've been flirting with Top-5 classes even after mediocre seasons.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I've made my disdain for college rankings like those that the U.S. News and World Report produces well known, mostly because their methodology is clown shoes.

Fortunately, Forbes is now publishing a similar ranking, but their's relies heavily on objective statistics like PayScale data. And most importantly, their methodology is mostly devoid of arbitrary crap like "reputation polls" and "alumni giving rate".

Notre Dame ranks 12th nationally. Our top rivals? 57th (scUM) and 95th (U$C) respectively. Sounds about right to me.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I've incorporated the newly released GSR figures into an updated Football ROI ranking.

Not much serious movement, but here it is for those who may be interested.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Great work and great information. I am currently finishing up my MBA/IT. Once I am done, I will be enrolling in the Mendoza College of Business and getting my Executive Certificate in Leadership and Management. Extremely great accolades I have found about this program as a supplement to my degrees.


GO IRISH!!!!!!!!

Diz

 

[irishdiehard]

Some recent comments from ND's recruiting targets imply that the coaching staff is heavily relying on statistics like these in their recruiting pitches. Brings a tear to my eye.

Just wish I had heard something back when I ran this ranking up the Athletic Department's flagpole...

Have you ran the updated numbers up the athletic department/ BK's flagpole? The comments from recruits do indicate BK is saying some things of this sort, but I think having these exact figures is a must have for BK in recruiting...

 

[phork]

Is the African American graduate rate still 100%?

 

[Grahambo]

Pat Forde ‏@YahooForde

My Champ: Notre Dame for 4th straight Grad Success Rate title. Chump: Easy. Honey Badger & Co., busted in Baton Rouge.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Have you ran the updated numbers up the athletic department/ BK's flagpole? The comments from recruits do indicate BK is saying some things of this sort, but I think having these exact figures is a must have for BK in recruiting...

I did. Received no response, so I have no idea if anyone in a position to utilize this data ever saw them.

 

[phgreek]

I did. Received no response, so I have no idea if anyone in a position to utilize this data ever saw them.

...as I said last year...we goof around on here, and we get under each other's skin, have a laugh now and again...but this is serious, and big. If the athletic department didn't notice...send it again.

Might I suggest that THIS information, by default, be inlcuded in EVERY kid's recruiting thread...you know they read them...and this is helping kids make an informed decision.

As well...thanks for the effort...

 

[phork]

Kids Checklist (Usually):

Good Ball Team
Hot Chicks
Playing Time
Cool Uni's Bro
School Rep

Parent's Checklist:

Good School
Degree worth more than CrackerJack U
Good School
ROI & Graduation Rate

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Payscale released a new College ROI ranking for 2012, which I used to generate an updated Football ROI. 2012 GSR data won't be released until sometime this summer, so I'll be updating again in the near future.

An excellent explanation of the methodology behind Payscale's ranking can be found here. They made a couple significant changes from last year's methodology: (1) they used 75th percentile pay for high school grads as the baseline instead of the median pay, since it better reflects the higher likely earnings of those who succeeded in being admitted to college; and (2) they've incorporated financial aid into the analysis. For the purposes of Football ROI, the latter is irrelevant, but the former has dramatically lowered the overall ROI.

There weren't many notable moves among our ranking, but the following may be of interest:

• Duke passed ND, taking the #2 spot behind Stanford, in Overall Football ROI and Caucasian Football ROI (but they never really recruit against us, so... meh)
• Stanford and ND maintained roughly the same positions relative to each other.
• ND still offers the best degree value to African American recruits, though not by the same large margin (Duke is close behind)
• Stanford, Duke, and ND are the only 3 BCS schools who offer a 7-figure ROI to football recruits, and they lead the rest of the pack by a huge margin; Vanderbilt, the #4 school in all 3 rankings, isn't even close.
• The bottom-dwellers moved from pathetic to truly atrocious; SCar and USF (ahem) don't even manage to break 6-figures in African American Football ROI.

ND's degree value for African American football players v. various recruiting rivals:
Stanford- 10% greater
Rutgers- 2x greater
Northwestern- 2x greater
Penn State- 2.5x greater
Michigan- 3x greater
USC- 3x greater
UF- 3.5x greater
LSU- 4x greater
Texas- 4x greater
'Bama- 5x greater
OSU- 5x greater
Oklahoma- 6x greater
FSU- 10x greater
USF- 12x greater
SCar- 17x greater

So if Saban brings in 5x as many players, the value of Bama degrees equals that of ND. That's how he'll spin it.

 

[PraetorianND]

Thats funny as hell...

Anyway, for what its worth, of course I want him...but personally I want him to want ND (I know, I'm going all Cheap Trick on everyone).

So I want him to go where he wants to be...As I said in other threads...no one in the history of transferring from ND that I can recall said it was a good move when they made it to 30 something, and looked back.

...what that means for someone choosing ND out of the gate...I think it means ND is what what you think it is, and other places tend not to be.

If kids could think like a 30 something for 10 minutes...ND would have a roster full of 5 stars...

good luck to the young man no matter what he does...

I hate to get into this discussion but UCLA and USC are both fantastic schools. If you're comparing Bama and ND that's one thing but UCLA and USC are both top notch schools academically.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Compared to both USC and UCLA, ND offers roughly double the degree value to Caucasian recruits, and triple the degree value to African American recruits.

No, they're not bad schools. But in light of their GSR figures, they're not offering a "top notch" education either, at least not to prospective football players.

I dont understand this, both schools are great... They'll apparently do whatever it takes to win.