Quarterback Competition Update (4-11-11)

[Bogtrotter07]

Watching the game again, Rees's best play was an audible - calling for a run play that was designed to go right to instead go left, away from a blitzing linebacker coming off the right edge. The call worked and there was a nice gain. That is unquestionably what Tommy does better than the other two guys, but when you're a QB and your best play is a running play, I think that is a problem. Golson may not be totally ready today, but if he gets every first team rep before Dublin he will be more ready. No excuse not to give him those reps, IMO.

EXACTLY! That play was an audible caused by Danny Spond coming from his position and telegraphing a blitz; which I think was the intent of the coaching staff, to test him on that. But within a few plays, with his big receiver double covered he threw into traffic and was picked off by Mathias Farley. In both cases Tommy decided what he would do, and did it. It worked on the telegraph blitz with the counter to the other side, but it failed miserably on the pass to into double coverage. HE HAD TOMA OPEN BY 12 YARDS UNDERNEATH!!! This is what Tommy does.

One of the few times I have disagreed with BK; Tommy gives me heart attacks!

 

[Ndaccountant]

EXACTLY! That play was an audible caused by Danny Spond coming from his position and telegraphing a blitz; which I think was the intent of the coaching staff, to test him on that. But within a few plays, with his big receiver double covered he threw into traffic and was picked off by Mathias Farley. In both cases Tommy decided what he would do, and did it. It worked on the telegraph blitz with the counter to the other side, but it failed miserably on the pass to into double coverage. HE HAD TOMA OPEN BY 12 YARDS UNDERNEATH!!! This is what Tommy does.

One of the few times I have disagreed with BK; Tommy gives me heart attacks!

That's the problem tho. You show blitz one way with a LB while the rest of the D flows opposite the blitz. Bait TR into a bad play. Happened all the time last year.

 

[tadman95]

EXACTLY! That play was an audible caused by Danny Spond coming from his position and telegraphing a blitz; which I think was the intent of the coaching staff, to test him on that. But within a few plays, with his big receiver double covered he threw into traffic and was picked off by Mathias Farley. In both cases Tommy decided what he would do, and did it. It worked on the telegraph blitz with the counter to the other side, but it failed miserably on the pass to into double coverage. HE HAD TOMA OPEN BY 12 YARDS UNDERNEATH!!! This is what Tommy does.

One of the few times I have disagreed with BK; Tommy gives me heart attacks!

Had hoped this was one area Tommy had worked on from last year.

 

[Irish#1]

BK's biggest fear with TR is his INT's. Obviously BK doesn't think TR has remedied the situation. With that said, if Golson and Rees both throw 15 INT's, go with Golson. He has a better chance of making up for the INT with his legs and he appears to have a stronger arm which should allow his to reduce his INT's as he learns to read defenses better.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

BK's biggest fear with TR is his INT's. Obviously BK doesn't think TR has remedied the situation. With that said, if Golson and Rees both throw 15 INT's, go with Golson. He has a better chance of making up for the INT with his legs and he appears to have a stronger arm which should allow his to reduce his INT's as he learns to read defenses better.

Plus, look at it like this, when does Tommy throw his INT's? When he is either pressured, or has nowhere to throw it because the defense dropped 8 into coverage. Tommy's only options are to either force a throw in a tight window, or throw it away. Golson has another option, run the ball. I don't think we'd see Golson throw as many balls as Rees would a game, so I don't think he'd be in any position to throw as many INT's (or TD's for that matter). He doesn't have to worry about picking the defense apart, he can take what's given to him with his arm or feet.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Plus, look at it like this, when does Tommy throw his INT's? When he is either pressured, or has nowhere to throw it because the defense dropped 8 into coverage. Tommy's only options are to either force a throw in a tight window, or throw it away. Golson has another option, run the ball. I don't think we'd see Golson throw as many balls as Rees would a game, so I don't think he'd be in any position to throw as many INT's (or TD's for that matter). He doesn't have to worry about picking the defense apart, he can take what's given to him with his arm or feet.

Bingo.

 

[Patulski]

BK's biggest fear with TR is his INT's. Obviously BK doesn't think TR has remedied the situation. With that said, if Golson and Rees both throw 15 INT's, go with Golson. He has a better chance of making up for the INT with his legs and he appears to have a stronger arm which should allow his to reduce his INT's as he learns to read defenses better.

There's another element that Golson brings to the table. From the Michigan game on, coordinators brought pressure upt the middle from blitzing linebackers trying to rattle Rees. In Kelly's scheme, the linebacker was often not blocked, but 80%+ of the time, the hot route was wide open over the middle. Rees started flinching in the Michigan game, which resulted in him missing his hot receiver and throwing an incomplete pass. This continued throughout the year.

With Golson, if he cannot make the throw under pressure either, he has the added option of simply using his athleticism to make the blitzer miss, which would buy him additional time. If Golson is able to make blitzers miss, buys time, and starts punishing the defense with long passing plays downfield, defensive coordinators are going to be less apt to blitz. This takes away a weapon for the defense, and ND would benefit as a result if Golson is an accurate passer, and we can have a good enough running game so that teams have to respect the run, which will open up the pass.

 

[BobD]

I want a QB with enough brass to call his own play if they don't get it from the side lines in time.

 

[stlnd01]

There's another element that Golson brings to the table. From the Michigan game on, coordinators brought pressure upt the middle from blitzing linebackers trying to rattle Rees. In Kelly's scheme, the linebacker was often not blocked, but 80%+ of the time, the hot route was wide open over the middle. Rees started flinching in the Michigan game, which resulted in him missing his hot receiver and throwing an incomplete pass. This continued throughout the year.

Yes. And got worse when Cave went down. In retrospect, the Stanford game was basically over after our (if I recall) first offensive play, when they blew up the middle and knocked Tommy on his ***. He never recovered.
Maybe that happens to Golson, but maybe he escapes it. Either way, he can't possibly throw any more picks than Crist/Rees/Hendrix did last year, can he?

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I want a QB with enough brass to call his own play if they don't get it from the side lines in time.

I want a QB that is intelligent, fearless, exploding with intensity, and takes the team on his back onward to victory. I want one of these kids to grab the starting job by the throat and not let go until he wins a national championship. Is that too much to ask?

 

[PANDFAN]

Yes. And got worse when Cave went down. In retrospect, the Stanford game was basically over after our (if I recall) first offensive play, when they blew up the middle and knocked Tommy on his ***. He never recovered.
Maybe that happens to Golson, but maybe he escapes it. Either way, he can't possibly throw any more picks than Crist/Rees/Hendrix did last year, can he?

He can but make a hell amount of plays they couldn't which negates it

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Yes. And got worse when Cave went down. In retrospect, the Stanford game was basically over after our (if I recall) first offensive play, when they blew up the middle and knocked Tommy on his ***. He never recovered.
Maybe that happens to Golson, but maybe he escapes it. Either way, he can't possibly throw any more picks than Crist/Rees/Hendrix did last year, can he?

Sure that wasn't SC?

 

[NDhoosier]

I want a QB that is intelligent, fearless, exploding with intensity, and takes the team on his back onward to victory. I want one of these kids to grab the starting job by the throat and not let go until he wins a national championship. Is that too much to ask?

impossible... you are dreaming!

 

[BGIF]

I want a QB that is intelligent, fearless, exploding with intensity, and takes the team on his back onward to victory. I want one of these kids to grab the starting job by the throat and not let go until he wins a national championship. Is that too much to ask?

No, tommy it isn't too much too ask.

Crist got the job last September by default because there were two 1A's and NO #1, he got the job on senoirty and potential. Rees got the job because Crist didn't exhibit the qualities you list coming out of the gate. Rees did demonstrate a couple of those qualities last season but didn't grab the job by the throat in the B&G game.

So we have popularity poll posts about the most stars, the best high school clippings, least/most propensity to fumble, best ability to get out of trouble by the guy with the most propensity to get in trouble (if you don't know which play was called in ...), weak arms/strong arms, ropes and ducks, reads and misreads, stare downs/not see the field, fleet or no feet, blah, blah, blah.

Fortunately we've got 5 months for somebody to digest the playbook, learn the system fundamentals, and TAKE the job in preseason camp, and then EXECUTE in showtime. Until then we'll continue to have multiple QB du jour threads about potential and forceful statement that X can't be any worse than Y, etc, etc.

 

[irishmarine]

Either way with us having multiple qbs just leads us to not having one!

 

[die4irish]

Sure that wasn't SC?

Nope it was Stanford.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Nope it was Stanford.

My point was, it was both. Watch the games.

 

[irish1958]

No, tommy it isn't too much too ask.

Crist got the job last September by default because there were two 1A's and NO #1, he got the job on senoirty and potential. Rees got the job because Crist didn't exhibit the qualities you list coming out of the gate. Rees did demonstrate a couple of those qualities last season but didn't grab the job by the throat in the B&G game.

So we have popularity poll posts about the most stars, the best high school clippings, least/most propensity to fumble, best ability to get out of trouble by the guy with the most propensity to get in trouble (if you don't know which play was called in ...), weak arms/strong arms, ropes and ducks, reads and misreads, stare downs/not see the field, fleet or no feet, blah, blah, blah.

Fortunately we've got 5 months for somebody to digest the playbook, learn the system fundamentals, and TAKE the job in preseason camp, and then EXECUTE in showtime. Until then we'll continue to have multiple QB du jour threads about potential and forceful statement that X can't be any worse than Y, etc, etc.

Forget the play book; give everybody just 20 or 25 plays and have Golson run them over and over and over............
Get the play makers on the field and let them go.
Think of Auburn and Cam N. or most of the NC games in the past 15 years.
Kelly needed the system and complicated play book before because he didn't have the athletes or skilled players. Against a less skilled opponent this works. Against very skilled opponents and top notch defensive coordinators, I am not convinced that the system is that important. Find the players, give them the tools and get out of the way.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Forget the play book; give everybody just 20 or 25 plays and have Golson run them over and over and over............
Get the play makers on the field and let them go.
Think of Auburn and Cam N. or most of the NC games in the past 15 years.
Kelly needed the system and complicated play book before because he didn't have the athletes or skilled players. Against a less skilled opponent this works. Against very skilled opponents and top notch defensive coordinators, I am not convinced that the system is that important. Find the players, give them the tools and get out of the way.

Interesting freaking point!

 

[ND55]

Forget the play book; give everybody just 20 or 25 plays and have Golson run them over and over and over............
Get the play makers on the field and let them go.
Think of Auburn and Cam N. or most of the NC games in the past 15 years.
Kelly needed the system and complicated play book before because he didn't have the athletes or skilled players. Against a less skilled opponent this works. Against very skilled opponents and top notch defensive coordinators, I am not convinced that the system is that important. Find the players, give them the tools and get out of the way.

EXACTLY!!!!!! I've been thinking ever since the B&G game that if Denard Robinson was at ND, there is probably no way BK would play him because of all his underthrown balls etc. it would give BK a HEART ATTACK.. but in the end he took em to the Sugar Bowl. Gotta let the player's play (GO EG)

I also remember last year drunkenly walking down the street after watching the Michigan debacle yelling WHY GOD.... OH WHY GOD CANT YOU GIVE ND A PLAYMAKER AT QB AND WE WILL DESTROY THINE ENEMIES.... (and yes my wife did not speak to me for several days and the neighbors all shook their heads in disgust after that when I passed by)

 

[woolybug25]

Posted without comment...

*compliments to Subwaydomer.com

 

[Domina Nostra]

EXACTLY!!!!!! I've been thinking ever since the B&G game that if Denard Robinson was at ND, there is probably no way BK would play him because of all his underthrown balls etc. it would give BK a HEART ATTACK.. but in the end he took em to the Sugar Bowl. Gotta let the player's play (GO EG)

I also remember last year drunkenly walking down the street after watching the Michigan debacle yelling WHY GOD.... OH WHY GOD CANT YOU GIVE ND A PLAYMAKER AT QB AND WE WILL DESTROY THINE ENEMIES.... (and yes my wife did not speak to me for several days and the neighbors all shook their heads in disgust after that when I passed by)

If it worked for #1 draft pick, 22 yo superstar Cam Newton... The fact is that Auburn had some really good athletes at QB last year, but still stunk. Cam was in a league of his own. Similarly, Kelly had Crist, Rees, Hendirx, and Golson as a true freshman. There was no magic formula last year. Why pretend to know what Kelly would have done with Sr. Cam Newton or Jr. Denard Robinson when he had no one like that on the roster.

Kelly is not Nick Saban: the purple face does not come out every time the QB makes a mistake. Rees made a biziliion mistakes and Kelly dealt with most of it just fine. It came out when the QB consistently makes horrible decision in key moments. The USF game was surreal.

Nothing indicates to me that Kelly is too conservative to play Golson or that he won't be patient with him, so long as he is not a TO machine.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

After all, he played Tommy, didn't he?

This is what I don't get. I think it was the absolute risk to play Tommy from square one . . .

 

[tadman95]

On ESPN's College Football Live today, they were talking about the QB situation at Oregon. Chip Kelly believes the the QB position at Oregon is more like a point guard. If you see this, then you do that. Yea, you adjust and call plays but it's more about making the right decisions. The way to do that is by repetitions in practice. (Chip Kelly and Leach at Washington State put their QB's through a lot of reps in their practices)

Hmmm, point guard. Hmmmm, repetitions in practice. Hmmm, former all-state point guard.

Let's think about this.....

 

[PANDFAN]

On ESPN's College Football Live today, they were talking about the QB situation at Oregon. Chip Kelly believes the the QB position at Oregon is more like a point guard. If you see this, then you do that. Yea, you adjust and call plays but it's more about making the right decisions. The way to do that is by repetitions in practice. (Chip Kelly and Leach at Washington State put their through a lot of reps in their practices)

Hmmm, point guard. Hmmmm, repetitions in practice. Hmmm, former all-state point guard.

Let's think about this.....

i thought u died the other day?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Hmmm, point guard. Hmmmm, repetitions in practice. Hmmm, former all-state point guard.

I think Norte Dame is a pretty cool guy. Eh runs fast and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[tadman95]

i thought u died the other day?

That was Goober! (RIP) I'm still kicking and still packing!! Just shined my bullet the other day, now where did I put that?

 

[IrishAlum1997]

What are the odds Golson and Kiel both have degrees from ND in 4 years? Even if Everett is the real deal (which is where I currently have stacked my chips), I think he is a 3-year starter at minimum, I don't believe his measurables will lend to a great draft position earlier than his senior year (junior year in terms of eligibility).

Kiel redshirts and gets to sit 2 more years until getting his 2 year stint? Then throw Zaire into the mix (knock on wood), who redshirts 2013, watches Kiel for THREE seasons, and gets one year at the top?

I'm just perplexed by the numbers game. I'm sure everything works out, and I'm not so naive to understand there are many variables in play. Just gets your mind racing, ready for the drama to unfold.....

 

[DomeLover3]

I figure theres got to be a transfer somewhere

 

[NDPhilly]

Kiel would watch for 4 seasons and have a one year stint.