Pot legalization could save US $13.7 Billion...

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Pot Legalization Could Save U.S. $13.7 Billion Per Year, 300 Economists Say

Pot Legalization Could Save U.S. $13.7 Billion Per Year, 300 Economists Say

Your plans to celebrate 4/20 this Friday could actually make the government some money, if only such activities were legal. That’s according to a bunch of economists, and some prominent ones too.

More than 300 economists, including three Nobel laureates, have signed a petition calling attention to the findings of a paper by Harvard economist Jeffrey Miron, which suggests that if the government legalized marijuana it would save $7.7 billion annually by not having to enforce the current prohibition on the drug. The report added that legalization would save an additional $6 billion per year if the government taxed marijuana at rates similar to alcohol and tobacco.

That's as much as $13.7 billion per year, but it's still minimal when compared to the federal deficit, which hit $1.5 trillion last year, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

While the economists don't directly call for pot legalization, the petition asks advocates on both sides to engage in an "open and honest debate" about the benefits of pot prohibition.

"At a minimum, this debate will force advocates of current policy to show that prohibition has benefits sufficient to justify the cost to taxpayers, foregone tax revenues, and numerous ancillary consequences that result from marijuana prohibition," the petition states.

The economic benefits of pushing pot into mainstream commerce have long been cited as a reason to make the drug legal, and the economists' petition comes as government officials at both the federal and local levels are looking for ways to raise funds. The majority of Americans say they prefer cutting programs to increasing taxes as a way to deal with the nation’s budget deficit -- marijuana legalization would seemingly give the government money without doing either.

Officials in one state have already made the economic argument for pot legalization, but to no avail. California Democratic State Assemblyman Tom Ammiano proposed legislation in 2009 to legalize marijuana in California, arguing that it would yield billions of dollars in tax revenue for a state in dire need of funds. California voters ultimately knocked down a referendum to legalize marijuana in 2010.

Economist Stephen Easton wrote in Businessweek that the financial benefits of pot legalization may be even bigger than Miron's findings estimate. Based on the amount of money he thinks it would take to produce and market legal marijuana, combined with an estimate of marijuana consumers, Eatson guesses that legalizing the drug could bring in $45 to $100 billion per year. Easton’s name doesn't appear on the petition.

Some argue that the economic argument for pot legalization is already proven by the benefits states and cities have reaped from making medical marijuana legal. Advocates for Colorado's medical marijuana industry argue that legalization has helped to jump start a stalled economy in cities like Boulder and Denver, according to nj.com.
 
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IrishLax

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+1. And that's not even looking at the fact that it would create 100k+ jobs seemingly overnight and strengthen the economy that way.
 
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Buster Bluth

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I wrote a paper once on how the US could reinvest in its cities by creating an untouchable fund with marijuana taxes.

Many of the GOP governors (of Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, etc) are strongly opposed to things like high-speed rail because they are expensive (although still a tiny fraction of the cost of expressways). But what if marijuana taxes paid for it? It wouldn't be a burden on the taxpayers per se.

The midwest (from St. Louis to Pittsburgh and Louisville to Detroit/Milwaukee) is without question the best place in the world to put in HSR. (Very dense population centers, the distance between cities is great (too far to drive comfortably, too close to justify flying often), and it is generally flat.)

It could really be my mission in life to legalize marijuana, and spend the money on a system of these:

800px-PortlandStreetcar5.jpg


...in each major city (i.e. population >250,000) linked with a system of these:

taiwan-high-speed-rail.jpg


You would snowball the billions you save on marijuana and turn it into billions more in private economic reinvestment in central cities. Which would then put more money into the coffers of struggling big cities and their schools, and potentially lift a million or two out of poverty in the process.
 
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BeauBenken

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Some of our economy would take a hit though...

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/x8eIxZ4zhrE" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>
 

RDU Irish

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I think $14 billion is a gross under estimate but creating a $14 billion dollar industry over night would only help the economy. Crime drops, drug revenues hit the tax rolls, drug jobs hit the payroll, farmers have another crop to consider...

Have to disagree on the choo-choo trains though. You cannot have a kick *** train system for BOTH people and freight. Right now we have an awesome PRIVATE freight system and it make little sense to knock that down to hope a public funded high speed people train serves us better (altruistically or economically).

Knock the taxes off of airline tickets and allow small airports and charters to advertise to reduce travel costs. Then get rid of the pointless TSA to make air travel more economical. No way people trains can pay their own way.

Think if you could hit Craigslist and hitch a ride with a private pilot heading 200 - 300 miles away for the weekend? Sure you are taking on risk but isn't that your choice to make? How many people would do that to suppliment the cost of their small aircraft. How many air taxi services would crop up? Competition would be great!

Pot to airplanes, wtf?
 

Irish2015

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My solution to both this and the education problem is making tobacco, marijuana, and alcohol legal to anyone with a high school degree.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Have to disagree on the choo-choo trains though. You cannot have a kick *** train system for BOTH people and freight.

Ummm, yes you can. A HSR network would be separate from freight. That's why it's so damn expensive.

Right now we have an awesome PRIVATE freight system and it make little sense to knock that down to hope a public funded high speed people train serves us better (altruistically or economically).

You wouldn't be knocking it down. I really have no idea where you're hearing that. HSR, done right, is on it's own (but probably parallel) track so it can fly by at 150mph. Cutting corners (and perhaps taking existing track for HSR use) isn't smart; the people making those decisions know that.

Knock the taxes off of airline tickets and allow small airports and charters to advertise to reduce travel costs. Then get rid of the pointless TSA to make air travel more economical. No way people trains can pay their own way.

This is an extremely common thought too. Unfortunately it is wrong too. The highways don't "pay their own way," but HSR would have to? If the construction cost of HSR was treated as a sunk cost and paid for with marijuana tax receipts, it would be in the black from the start, and that's my point. You literally eliminate the massive start up costs.

And the goal would be a net economic benefit (meaning it wouldn't even need to be in the black per se for it to make sense). That is to say, if a streetcar line costs the city X annually to run, but they get X+1 in tax receipts off of the business that sprout up around the transportation hubs and streetcar lines (and they do, in nearly every case study), then it is a net benefit and entirely worth it. But the detractors line up and say "it costs X!! waste of money!!" It's really quite sad.

Think if you could hit Craigslist and hitch a ride with a private pilot heading 200 - 300 miles away for the weekend? Sure you are taking on risk but isn't that your choice to make? How many people would do that to suppliment the cost of their small aircraft. How many air taxi services would crop up? Competition would be great!

Pot to airplanes, wtf?

This was the thought process of the 1950's, more or less, and has been proven wrong about a million times. I really don't know how to even respond to this other than "No. A million times no."

EDIT: an addendum:

Driving is optimal for distances <90 minutes (~90 miles). Planes/jets is optimal for distances >~350miles. For everything in between, rail is optimal. But to be sure, HSR's main competition is interstates, not jets. Your suggestion of small aircraft is bad for a number of reasons, if nothing else because the cost of fuel and the logistics of hundreds of small aircraft in the skies heading to the same airports. It would be madness and is unrealistic.

But, look at the distances between midwestern cities:

Chicago to St. Louis - 260 miles (~3.7 hrs ia car, ~1.7 via HSR)
Chicago to Detroit - 260 miles (~3.7 hrs vs 1.7 hrs)
Indianapolis to Columbus - 170 miles (2.4 hrs vs 1.3 hrs)

Louisville to Indianapolis/Cincinnati, Indianapolis to Chicago/Columbus/Louisville/St. Louis.

The reality in the midwest is almost perfect for HSR. Anyone who has put in the research knows it, there are a billion reports in the interwebzzzz.
 
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Buster Bluth

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My solution to both this and the education problem is making tobacco, marijuana, and alcohol legal to anyone with a high school degree.

And you'd get sued for discrimination almost instantly.
 

Bobias

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This issue shouldn't even exist. And anyone who does think it should simply needs to look at the violence currently going on in mexico right now. That alone should make you pro-legalization of anything that would stop the reign of terror brought upon by the drug cartels. Plus it is less harmful than a cup of coffee. Happy holidays everyone.
 

DSully1995

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+1. And that's not even looking at the fact that it would create 100k+ jobs seemingly overnight and strengthen the economy that way.

I dont know about that, Pharmaceutical companies would have a hard time agreeing with you
 

Irish Houstonian

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For all the creative thinking regarding the pro-legalization points, can anyone think of any negative externalities of decriminalizing a drug that delays thought processes, hinders critical thinking, slows reaction times and damages lungs?

I'm sort of on the fence myself, but any reasoned debate must acknowledge that decriminalization of weed will increase its use at least 300% across all populations, and that there will be societal ramifications.
 

irishpat183

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To me, I have no problem with it being legalized.

However....these overzealous claims of the benefits of how it's going to somehow save the earth and provide money for super trains, end poverty...etc. Save it.

You potheads just wanna get high.

And I'm ok with it. But don't feed me the bullsh*t.
 

irishpat183

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For all the creative thinking regarding the pro-legalization points, can anyone think of any negative externalities of decriminalizing a drug that delays thought processes, hinders critical thinking, slows reaction times and damages lungs?

I'm sort of on the fence myself, but any reasoned debate must acknowledge that decriminalization of weed will increase its use at least 300% across all populations, and that there will be societal ramifications.

True....And they can deny it all they want, but we've all been there. However, it's no different than alcohol in my opinion.

And let them smoke. My *** will look like a genius in job interviews compared to some baked out pot head!
 

irishpat183

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Before you guys claim it's going to solve our economic problems....Just keep in mind what government does with the rest of our money already.

Another 13 billion to line some pockets. And they'll still bitch about the rich not paying enough taxes.....
 

RDU Irish

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Well, Buster, that changes the entire discussion if you are doubling the rail for all HSR routes. I would not argue that is all bad, definitely better than 90% of what government spends money on. Just not convinced it is better than not spending the money and letting it stay in the private sector. Money is fungible and saying some special tax funds this project is a flawed premise, IMO. Just like the transportation funds of most states being raided repeatedly to balance budgets b/c gas taxes are lucrative and roads are easily neglected.

Let me ask this now, how do you get to where you are going once you are in said city? Lack of population density is a major reason have rarely seen a rail proposal pass my smell test.

Milwaukee really has no central districts. They spread the ballpark, basketball stadium and casino miles apart rather than leveraging all for an entertainment district. Businesses sprawl for a good 20 mile radius. You HAVE to have a car to live in that area to be marginally productive and congestion is so light that it would be extremely rare for a rail system to be faster than driving given all of the stops and transfers likely needed.

I know that is a light rail issue, not HSR but gets back to the issue of what you do once you are at this mid tier destination (mid tier in terms of both distance and size).

Another issue is political, how do you tell the tinier cities along the way that they don't get a train stop? You pretty much have to fly straight from St. Louis to Milwaukee with maybe one stop to make it worthwhile. It would still be more cost effective to subsidize airlines for short routes. Not that I am a fan of subsidies but I see benefit of government infrastructure projects, just can't get on board nationalizing railroads.
 

RDU Irish

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For all the creative thinking regarding the pro-legalization points, can anyone think of any negative externalities of decriminalizing a drug that delays thought processes, hinders critical thinking, slows reaction times and damages lungs?

I'm sort of on the fence myself, but any reasoned debate must acknowledge that decriminalization of weed will increase its use at least 300% across all populations, and that there will be societal ramifications.

So alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal too, right? This is a health issue, not a criminal one. Abuse of any substance is "bad" but I would rather work under individual liberty with the right to F up my own life versus a nanny state where liberty is incrimentally eroded "for my own good."

I still wouldn't smoke the stuff, just see no reason to criminalize pot head losers any more than alcoholic losers. Self destructive people will find a way no matter how much government tries to stop them.
 

BeauBenken

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To me, I have no problem with it being legalized.

However....these overzealous claims of the benefits of how it's going to somehow save the earth and provide money for super trains, end poverty...etc. Save it.

You potheads just wanna get high.


And I'm ok with it. But don't feed me the bullsh*t.

I think you're really painting with a broad brush there. Buster doesn't strike me as the type to smoke.

And 13.7 billion dollars is a lot of ****ing money. And the industry could arguably create much, much more than that.
 

WaveDomer

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There's little doubt that the government would save money on drug enforcement if marijuana was legalized. However, I seriously question the amount of money they think could be raised and jobs created by legalization. Marijuana is something that is easily grown. If legal, why wouldn't serious smokers just have a garden with marijuana plants? Or why wouldn't a dealer just deal like now and avoid paying tax? And the government is likely to try and tax it heavily. So there will still be a black market. So how do you deal with the black market? You fund criminal investigation, etc. States lose hundreds of millions of dollars today because of the cigarette black market. So even though they would save money, likely, on prosecution, they would still spend money on legalities. Also, if it does increase consumption, you will have more people driving high and other things that cost money to the government.

The best thing for them to do is to just legalize it and not tax it or just tax it like normal produce if bought in a store. The best reason for legalization, IMHO, is that it frees the individual and stops giving more power to the State. Economic discussions are almost always flawed, IMHO, because nobody knows what people will do to save money or what the government in 10 years will want to spend money on.
 

GowerND11

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My 2 cents. I am on the fence. I personally don't smoke, but I really find it unneccessary that we have such strict laws on weed. It's a Schedule 1 Drug on par with heroin while cocaine is only Schedule 2. REALLY?!?!?! That is absurd. I believe people should be held responsible with what they do to themselves, therefore legalize it. Let the citizens make their choices.

On the other hand there would still be laws needed to put into place in order to control weed. How do we deal with those "under the influence?" Will companies be required to not discriminate against those who smoke? Etc. This would be a lot of debate and research along with votes in Congress.

My conclusion is that weed should be legalized as it can provide major money in a legal sector of our society, but we must not be haste. Discussions must be conducted along with cooperation from both sides to provide the correct ruling.

Again, just my 2 cents.
 

In Lou I Trust

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On the other hand there would still be laws needed to put into place in order to control weed. How do we deal with those "under the influence?" Will companies be required to not discriminate against those who smoke? Etc. This would be a lot of debate and research along with votes in Congress.

I've never tried weed so I really can't argue the affects of being "under the influence." However, my wife used to be a pot head and made it through college while being a habitual user. She no longer smokes but has told me several times that she did better in school while smoking. Not only that but it helped her with her anxiety. I don't think they'd have an issue with discrimination; nobody argues against not being able show up to work drunk. If pot were categorized with alcohol instead of cigarettes it would only make sense that one could not be high on the job.
 

RubberSoul

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Legalizing pot would be a good first step. While they are at it, legalize it all. 80 percent of all crime is drug related. Legalize it all and tax the crap out of it all. Treat them like alcohol. Instead of just having bars, you would have dens for opiates/narcotics as well.

Either that or keep them illegal and simply execute Drug dealers.
 
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