Quarterback Competition Update (4-11-11)

Patulski

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Im sure tommy looks great with a red jersey on and no pass rush. We all saw what happens to him after he takes a hit. And it's not pretty.

You're right. It's not pretty.

Of course all you couch potato QB's would get right up and be slinging it fearlessly. Right?

It's beginning to smell like NDNation here with all the one sided criticism of Rees.

As for all of you " teams figured out Rees and now he's finished" theorists: Did you ever consider that Rees is only as good as his offensive line? And USC, BC and Stanford whipped our offensive line?

Furthermore, did you ever consider that the combination of a better offensive line and a another year in the weight room Rees will bring improved results? Is it even possible for you to acknowledge this? Or has Rees been condemned to the NDNation equivalent of "purple faced Kelly" here at IrishEnvy?

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Sherm Sticky

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You're right. It's not pretty.

Of course all you couch potato QB's would get right up and be slinging it fearlessly. Right?

It's beginning to smell like NDNation here with all the one sided criticism of Rees.

As for all of you " teams figured out Rees and now he's finished" theorists: Did you ever consider that Rees is only as good as his offensive line? And USC, BC and Stanford whipped our offensive line?

Furthermore, did you ever consider that the combination of a better offensive line and a another year in the weight room Rees will bring improved results? Is it even possible for you to acknowledge this? Or has Rees been condemned to the NDNation equivalent of "purple faced Kelly" here at IrishEnvy?

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Is that all on Zach Martin or was he expecting Watts to be there?
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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You're right. It's not pretty.

Of course all you couch potato QB's would get right up and be slinging it fearlessly. Right?

It's beginning to smell like NDNation here with all the one sided criticism of Rees.

As for all of you " teams figured out Rees and now he's finished" theorists: Did you ever consider that Rees is only as good as his offensive line? And USC, BC and Stanford whipped our offensive line?

Furthermore, did you ever consider that the combination of a better offensive line and a another year in the weight room Rees will bring improved results? Is it even possible for you to acknowledge this? Or has Rees been condemned to the NDNation equivalent of "purple faced Kelly" here at IrishEnvy?

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Some of us just don't get into arguments like that. Better how many angels can dance on the head of a pin; Or, easier, pi$$ing up a rope.
 

Domina Nostra

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That was the timeframe that Holtz made the comment, "At Notre Dame, the fans favorite quarterback is the one not playing."

If Tommy develops into a "one-dimensional" QB, a guy who can "only" throw from the pocket, I will be very happy. I am thinking Jimmy Clausen. Right now. IMHO, Tommy is not particularly great at anything.

I see Sophomore Tommy Rees as an immobile, mistake-prone QB with a great attitude who can complete short and medium range passes to Tier 1 talent like Tyler Eifert and Michael Floyd when his line gives him lots of time and the defense is worried about guys like Cierre Wood or Jonas Gray.

His one exceptional quality is his ability to ignore past mistakes and move forward. That is very valuable (see USC 2010), but only gets you so far. Skill-wise, I don't see what he brings to the table that separates him from any other average QB (except for experience) UNLESS he improves significantly. I am not saying he can't improve, but he really seems exceptionally average to me at this point. (As far as potential for big improvement, he has played enough that I bet he is simply not going to be intimidated by game speed or competition anymore. I bet he becomes very decisive, at least until he plays athletic freaks like USC and OK).

That said, he still may be our best option in 2012. I hope not, but not because I don't like Tommy. I just hope other people with more potential develop.
 
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Ndaccountant

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You're right. It's not pretty.

Of course all you couch potato QB's would get right up and be slinging it fearlessly. Right?

It's beginning to smell like NDNation here with all the one sided criticism of Rees.

As for all of you " teams figured out Rees and now he's finished" theorists: Did you ever consider that Rees is only as good as his offensive line? And USC, BC and Stanford whipped our offensive line?

Furthermore, did you ever consider that the combination of a better offensive line and a another year in the weight room Rees will bring improved results? Is it even possible for you to acknowledge this? Or has Rees been condemned to the NDNation equivalent of "purple faced Kelly" here at IrishEnvy?

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There is a difference between growing and regressing. Like Clausen's soph more, he turned it over but you could see him growing as a QB. Can you honestly tell me that you saw that out of Tommy last season? I objectively can say I didn't.

There is a difference between here and ndnation. Ndnation will never be happy. We could win the MNC and they would complain that logos on the shoulderpads were too big.
 

Domina Nostra

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Furthermore, did you ever consider that the combination of a better offensive line and a another year in the weight room Rees will bring improved results? Is it even possible for you to acknowledge this? Or has Rees been condemned to the NDNation equivalent of "purple faced Kelly" here at IrishEnvy?

The NDNation people hated Kelly before he was here and continue to hate him with an irrational passion. I don't hate Rees on any level. I wish him nothing but success. If I could get an autographed picture of him I would gladly hang it on my wall. And I agree that he will improve personally and with the line and offense corporately.

BUT, I am rooting for someone to pass him in the exact same way I was rooting for Nix to pass Cwynar last year or Zach Martin to pass one of the upper-class tackles two years ago. I loved Sean's game and his effort, but he had obvious physical limitations as a 3-4 NG. We were not going to be the team I was hoping we could be with Sean getting most of the snaps at NG. We needed our talent to develop. That is rooting for the team.

Similarly, I don't see Tommy as having a particularly high ceiling so I want him to get passed. If he makes a big jump, shows he can throw a long ball, and cuts the TOs then this will be moot.
 

Patulski

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There is a difference between growing and regressing. Like Clausen's soph more, he turned it over but you could see him growing as a QB. Can you honestly tell me that you saw that out of Tommy last season? I objectively can say I didn't.

I thought Rees threw the ball better in the seams in 2011 than 2010. Eifert breaking the Notre Dame’s record for most catches and receiving yards in a season by a tight end is testimony to that. Secondly, when he had consistent protection, I thought he was a more consistent passer in 2011 than 2010. The Air Force game being an example. I also thought he threw a better deep ball, though he doesn't have the raw skill Clausen has.

Rees needs to protect the ball better in the pocket and not force the ball trying to make a play. I'm sure that's what they're focusing on with him.
 

Ndaccountant

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I thought Rees threw the ball better in the seams in 2011 than 2010. Eifert breaking the Notre Dame’s record for most catches and receiving yards in a season by a tight end is testimony to that. Secondly, when he had consistent protection, I thought he was a more consistent passer in 2011 than 2010. The Air Force game being an example. I also thought he threw a better deep ball, though he doesn't have the raw skill Clausen has.

Rees needs to protect the ball better in the pocket and not force the ball trying to make a play. I'm sure that's what they're focusing on with him.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, I don't think many QB's looked bad against AF. The games he looked good, ND simply had a HUGE advantage. When the playing field was more even, he had his problems. Look at BC, Pitt, Wake.

Look, he could be better. He could make better decisions. But simply making good decisions will not make him a top 25 QB. He needs physical tools that have not been displayed since he has been QB.
 

IrishLax

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You're right. It's not pretty.

Of course all you couch potato QB's would get right up and be slinging it fearlessly. Right?

It's beginning to smell like NDNation here with all the one sided criticism of Rees.

As for all of you " teams figured out Rees and now he's finished" theorists: Did you ever consider that Rees is only as good as his offensive line? And USC, BC and Stanford whipped our offensive line?

Furthermore, did you ever consider that the combination of a better offensive line and a another year in the weight room Rees will bring improved results? Is it even possible for you to acknowledge this? Or has Rees been condemned to the NDNation equivalent of "purple faced Kelly" here at IrishEnvy?

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First of all, our offensive line played incredibly well overall last year in pass protection. For the vast majority of the season I remember we were in the top 10 in sacks allowed per drop back. So any argument that starts with blaming the OL for not being all-world and giving up zero sacks is automatically invalid. In fact, the sacks Tommy did take were usually completely his fault for holding onto the ball too long or lacking the athletic ability/wherewithal to step up in the pocket and make a throw under pressure.

The point you raise about the OL not playing well against USC, BC, and Stanford is semi-valid only with respect to the Stanford game. They did not play well in that game overall and had multiple breakdowns against complicated pressures. With that being said, Andrew Hendrix came in and with a very limited playbook/practice reps was able to move the team much more effectively than Tommy and didn't get blown repeatedly... because he's not a statue.

BC and USC did not "whip" our OLs in any sense of the word. BC got ZERO sacks and allowed us to rush for 161 yards. And USC also got ZERO sacks in 43 pass attempts. So while you try to blame the OL, they did just about as good of a job as possible in protecting the passer. Which brings us to.....

"Of course all you couch potato QB's would get right up and be slinging it fearlessly. Right?"

Well, frankly, that's what's expected of a QB. It's truly a part of the job description. Peyton Manning or any great QB will always step up in the pocket and deliver the ball even though they know they're going to get destroyed.

My problem with Tommy is not him getting hit... it's what happens when he gets hit. He has an astronomical fumble rate on hits he takes because of his small hands. And against Stanford and Florida State.... the only two teams to hit him.... as soon as he took a big lick he got inexcusable jitters. Just completely shell shocked. For someone who gets hit as little as he does, it just makes no sense.
 

woolybug25

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My problem with Tommy is not him getting hit... it's what happens when he gets hit. He has an astronomical fumble rate on hits he takes because of his small hands. And against Stanford and Florida State.... the only two teams to hit him.... as soon as he took a big lick he got inexcusable jitters. Just completely shell shocked. For someone who gets hit as little as he does, it just makes no sense.

lol. Seriously... how do you know what size Tommy's hands are?
 

irishog77

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lol. Seriously... how do you know what size Tommy's hands are?

Tommy and Lax held their hands up against each others to gauge how big (or small) Tommy's paw's are. Has anybody ever done this with Diaco or Golson??
 

IrishLax

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lol. Seriously... how do you know what size Tommy's hands are?

Just look at him.

ncf_a_reese_sy_576.jpg


tommy-ress-starter.jpg
 

IrishLax

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Are you really going to sit there and tell me you can't see that he has small hands? It's as obvious as Megan Fox's toe-thumbs.
 

woolybug25

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Are you really going to sit there and tell me you can't see that he has small hands? It's as obvious as Megan Fox's toe-thumbs.

haha, you guys are ridiculous. You can't tell that from those pics. Does he look like a kid that is 6'2" in those pics? Probably not, but he is.


If we are at the point where we are hating on Rees for hand size, then maybe that should be a sign for everyone to take a chill pill.

Clausen had the smallest hands of any QB in his draft. How did he do at Notre Dame?
 
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beryirish

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Tommy before his haircut...

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Emcee77

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Everyone needs to read Lou Somogyi's recent article on how ND fans HATED Tony Rice until the middle of the 1988 season. After the 1987 season, and even after the first couple games of the 1988 season, everyone clamored for Holtz to put in Kent Graham, a prototypical stud QB who threw "50-yard rainbows" with ease. Holtz stuck with Rice and the rest is history. If you don't subscribe to 247, it's worth signing up for the trial for.

I just don't get why people seem to think that Tommy Rees CANT be a successful QB for us. I don't really expect him to be the starter when fall camp wraps up, but if BK starts him, I'll assume it's because he gives us the best chance to win, as surprising as that will be. Tommy does have a lot of good qualities. The Tony Rice story teaches that you have to trust the coaches sometimes.
 
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Lepresean

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The difference with Tony Rice is that he ran an option offense and could run. Tommy runs a spread and not only can he not run, his arm strength is good at best.

If BK starts Tommy then it says something about the rest of the so called "stud" quarterbacks we have.
 

Domina Nostra

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This is infinity better than reading about whether some high school kid is thinking about making a non-binding, verbal "commitment" to a school or whether he is going to opt to have his butt kissed for 8 more months.
 

IrishFBfanatic

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Everyone needs to read Lou Somogyi's recent article on how ND fans HATED Tony Rice until the middle of the 1988 season, and how after the 1987 season, and even after the first couple games of the 1988 season, everyone clamored for Holtz to put in Kent Graham, a prototypical stud QB who threw "50-yard rainbows" with ease. Holtz stuck with Rice and the rest is history. If you don't subscribe to 247, it's worth signing up for the trial for.

I just don't get why people seem to think that Tommy Rees CANT be a successful QB for us. I don't really expect him to be the starter when fall camp wraps up, but if BK starts him, I'll assume it's because he gives us the best chance to win, as surprising as that will be. Tommy does have a lot of good qualities. The Tony Rice story teaches that you have to trust the coaches sometimes.

I don't subscribe to 247 so I can't read the article, but I must say that it's very hard to see a legitimate comparison between the two. For every success story you see about a coach sticking to his guns with a guy, there are hundreds of stories that go the other direction.

For example, the Denver Broncos coaching staff was adamant about starting Kyle Orton and keeping Tebow off the field. The fans called for Orton's head and begged for Tebow. The organization realized they were at a point where they had to do something and Tebow came in and led them to the playoffs. Not that he's a great QB, but he did the job.

To be honest, the best comparison for Tommy in college football is that he has the passing ability of Denard Robinson and the legs of Kellen Moore. Denard actually had a little better passer rating, while Kellen rushed for -10 more yards than Tommy. So saying "Tommy could get better" is an obvious statement. How could he get worse?

Statistically speaking, the kid had the 55th best passer rating, the 41st most passing tds, the 11th most INTs. That is just unacceptable at the University of Notre Dame.

Talk about the O-Line all you want but Tommy was tied for 88th for most sacked QB. That's less than guys like RG3, Russell Wilson, and Case Keenum.

It's just very hard back that horse...
 
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