Molnar's Offense/Coaching Part of the Problem?

[BGIF]

Discussion started in the Who Is Likely Next thread on Molnar's Offense. I'm starting to new thread to stop the high jacking there. I had replied to a OMM post on the Spring Game noting that the offense would emphasize NOT looking like the Charley Molnar offense. A couple of people chimed in which led to bery's post. I started to respond but realized we were highjacking a recruiting thread and my post would take us further away from recruiting. There seems to be enough people interested to justify a separate thread so here we go.

Call me blind but was there a strong hatred towards Charley? I'm indifferent I just wanted to know. Was he holding the offense back so to speak?

Where did you see "strong hatred" or any hatred for that matter?

Charley Molnar was the OC AND the QB coach. Last presason there was no clear cut #1 going into the season. Fans railed that Crist was clearly #1. Kelly in his PCs noted that the Crist and Rees were in a dead heat despite "the coaching staff reviewing all drills and practices". Crist started opening day and wasn't #1. Rees came in after the weather delay. As the weeks wore on it became apparent that there really wasn't a #1, ND had two #2s.

Did Crist and Rees hold back Molnar's offense or did Molnar not have a #1 ready to play?

Why did it take so long to get Hendrick ready for "a limited package"?

When defenses dropped back extra defenders to blanket Floyd, what changes to the offense did Molnar make to counter? Did he make any?

When defenses gave Rees the under taking away the ahem, "long" ball did Molnar call plays to take advantage of that or was Rees still directed to look for Floyd 15 or more downfield?

Fans complained that Rees locked on Floyd and then Eifert(who was also Crist's favorite target before he locked on Rudolph both for what should be obvious reasons) did Molnar direct him (either Rees or Crist in '10 and '11) to look for other receivers).

IF defenses were keying on Floyd and Rudolph/Eifert did Molnar's offense take advantage of that by using them as decoys. Did he have his QBs (either one) pump and fake to Floyd going long and them hit another receiver underneath?

IF defenses were dropping back extra pass defenders did ND run delays underneath? Use Wood on a wheel route?

ND had a TALL receiving corps yet a Red Zone scoring problem. Why weren't Crist/Rees throwing ball after ball into the corner utilizing that height advantage. Yes, Rees can't throw a rope 50 yds. But a corner fade isn't 50 yd play nor take a rope. It's a finesse play that takes practice. Since Rees didn't have to spend time in practice with QB runs why wasn't the corner fade a standard.

 

[NDinFL]

Excellent post.

All those points are very valid, and really don't show Molnar in a good light at all, especially the part about Hendrix.

If Molnar was in charge of the QB's last season, and the QB position was our biggest problem, it should be painfully apparent why Molnar isn't with the ND staff anymore.

Reps BGIF

 

[SJIrish]

I think the problems on offense are on Kelly. Kelly came to ND with reputation as a offense coach and great developer of QB's. Molnar was on Kelly's staff at Cincy and Central Michigan where those offenses were really good. Now when things go wrong everything is Molnar's fault. He was imo just a scapegoat.

 

[DillonHall]

Just curious- how was the dynamic between Molnar and Kelly? Did Molnar have the power to overrule Kelly?

 

[BGIF]

Just curious- how was the dynamic between Molnar and Kelly? Did Molnar have the power to overrule Kelly?

I don't know about the dynamics you rarely read about conflict in style's until after one part is gone. Most head coaches don't throw there assistants under the bus because they hired them.

Assistants don't overrule the head coach. That's why I put a question mark in my title.

Generally the assistants (position coaches) tell the OC and DC who are ready to play. The OC and DC pick the talent they want on the field and the coordinators call the formation/play. Head coaches always have the right to change that.

Back in '94, '95, '96 Holtz had realized that his option had seen its day. It could still beat most teams but given time to prepare, a bye week or pre bowl preparation, the good to great teams could prepare for it. And he knew he was having trouble recruiting skill talent to play in that offense. He recruited Powlus to change his offense. He moved to the Blarney Offense which was supposed to be a more contemporary passing offense. His OL Coach Joe Moore resisted with a passion. As I recall you weren't following ND ball back them (preschool for you) but in '96 Holtz actually took over coaching the OTs. Bizarre for the HC to do that. The message was clear. The HC and the OL Coach were warring. The OLs sided with their position coach, "We came here for smashmouth football not pansy pass blocking." A week or two later against Navy in Ireland, Holtz stated a true freshmen DL at OG. Holtz established clearly the HC makes the final call.

I'll lay the training of the QBs squarely on Molnar, that is a position coach function. Did Molnar push Rees on Kelly? Did Molnar tell Kelly Crist was ready when he was having head issues (call it paralysis by analysis)? Was Crist not on Kelly's page and so got replaced or was Crist merely doing what his position coach/OC said to?

At the same time when Molnar didn't counter Floyd in triple coverage, why didn't Kelly overrule him and call a different play. Against Navy in '10 Diaco acknowledged that when his Game Plan Defense failed against Navy's option he had no plan "B" to fall back on. He hadn't prepared anything else. I still thought the could have made adjustments but I'll give him his due he was candid and fell on his sword.

With Offense Kelly could have called different plays. By game 2, 3, or 4 if Rees hadn't been practicing fades, Kelly should have demanded it. If I recall correctly Kelly had his entire staff have input into the Game Plan. If he didn't like Molnar's USF game plan, first you hint then you direct the OC to make changes. IF that doesn't work, then like Holtz you take hands on charge.

With the play calling Kelly always had hands on charge as he got the call from Molnar. Whether it was Molnar or Kelly that directed the Red Army QB which play to send to the QB on the field, if Kelly wasn't happy, he always had the override.

I'm reading between the lines. There was some terse mention of Molnar and Kelly not being on the same page but I think that was after Molnar was gone. Crist's shortcomings and Rees account for some of the problems with the offense but the failure to make adjustments to counter the defense doesn't fall at Crist's or Rees feet. IF you have a DE with a 5.9 forty you don't expect him to be a pass rusher. You call the plays to maximize your strengths and offset your weaknesses on defense or offense, that's coaching.

 

[TDHeysus]

Just curious- how was the dynamic between Molnar and Kelly? Did Molnar have the power to overrule Kelly?

I thought they had a good, healthy, working relationship; I make a point to watch as many BK interviews on UND.com as i can and BK is remarkably consistant with his messages to the media, and messages to the players.. I heard interviews where BK said Molnar would develop the gameplans(with BK's input) and BK had the ability to 'suggest' certain plays during the game but for the most part, it was Molnar calling plays.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think it is as simple as three coaches were hired as mistakes and are gone.

Kelly never threw anyone under the bus.

Molner never held all the authority at Cinci he did at ND. Kelly couldn't take anything back because so much needed to be done and he had so many more time constraints at ND. (Things like moving Martin earlier were not an option before he did it this post-season. I think originally, Kelly saw Quinn here.)

Okay so don't believe everything you hear: Kelly never surrendered the play calling, he did some work with the qb's, mostly frustrating himself, and there was always conflict between Molner and everyone. Same with the other two coaches that left.

 

[Old Man Mike]

1). the main problem with our offense was inconsistent play at the QB position --- I refuse to say "bad" play, because in my eye the general performance was not "bad" and many times quite good. Still, this was the main problem with the offense.

2). there is no universe in which Coach Kelly is going to say bad things about members of his coaching staff to the media during practice or the season. There is also no universe in which he did not have total control of what play ultimately was called in. Heck, you can tell that just by watching the sideline action. The problem, in my opinion, regarded the information that Kelly was getting [in more than one way].

3). Coach Molnar at the least frustrated the boss. Kelly said this about as clearly as he is ever going to say anything about another specific colleague once Molnar left and Martin was promoted. Talking about Martin and not Molnar, Kelly then said that what he was looking forward to working with Martin as a person that was precisely on the same page with him, understood how he likes to run the offense, and would apply that synchronicity to opponent analyses and game-planning. One might invent other interpretations for this, but I cannot believe that this was anything but a "let those who have ears to hear, hear" type of comment.

4). If my hypothesis is correct, the systemic dysfunction between Kelly's and Molnar's offensive philosophy created more problems than just in-game decisions. I believe that Kelly came to believe that Molnar was improperly "seeing" the opponent and what we best could plan to emphasize against them. [As an aside, I've come to believe that many IE posters have an extremely unrealistic and simplistic idea of what goes into game planning in the previous weeks. Modern football requires WAY more than flinging a system out there and just out-athleting your opponent]. The dysfunction [and this does not say that Molnar's vision cannot work for a team that HE sculptures] would cause "errors" in the planning war-room even earlier in the week. A head coach needs to depend upon his coordinators to thoroughly scout the opponents, determine weaknesses and strengths against what we actually have, and set the superstructure for maximizing our own strengths and minimizing weaknesses. This is something that's complicated and any coach might have a tough time clearly seeing that he is in an unhelpful relationship over just a few games.

 

[ChiRish]

I don't know about the dynamics you rarely read about conflict in style's until after one part is gone. Most head coaches don't throw there assistants under the bus because they hired them.

Assistants don't overrule the head coach. That's why I put a question mark in my title.

Generally the assistants (position coaches) tell the OC and DC who are ready to play. The OC and DC pick the talent they want on the field and the coordinators call the formation/play. Head coaches always have the right to change that.

Back in '94, '95, '96 Holtz had realized that his option had seen its day. It could still beat most teams but given time to prepare, a bye week or pre bowl preparation, the good to great teams could prepare for it. And he knew he was having trouble recruiting skill talent to play in that offense. He recruited Powlus to change his offense. He moved to the Blarney Offense which was supposed to be a more contemporary passing offense. His OL Coach Joe Moore resisted with a passion. As I recall you weren't following ND ball back them (preschool for you) but in '96 Holtz actually took over coaching the OTs. Bizarre for the HC to do that. The message was clear. The HC and the OL Coach were warring. The OLs sided with their position coach, "We came here for smashmouth football not pansy pass blocking." A week or two later against Navy in Ireland, Holtz stated a true freshmen DL at OG. Holtz established clearly the HC makes the final call.

I'll lay the training of the QBs squarely on Molnar, that is a position coach function. Did Molnar push Rees on Kelly? Did Molnar tell Kelly Crist was ready when he was having head issues (call it paralysis by analysis)? Was Crist not on Kelly's page and so got replaced or was Crist merely doing what his position coach/OC said to?

At the same time when Molnar didn't counter Floyd in triple coverage, why didn't Kelly overrule him and call a different play. Against Navy in '10 Diaco acknowledged that when his Game Plan Defense failed against Navy's option he had no plan "B" to fall back on. He hadn't prepared anything else. I still thought the could have made adjustments but I'll give him his due he was candid and fell on his sword.

With Offense Kelly could have called different plays. By game 2, 3, or 4 if Rees hadn't been practicing fades, Kelly should have demanded it. If I recall correctly Kelly had his entire staff have input into the Game Plan. If he didn't like Molnar's USF game plan, first you hint then you direct the OC to make changes. IF that doesn't work, then like Holtz you take hands on charge.

With the play calling Kelly always had hands on charge as he got the call from Molnar. Whether it was Molnar or Kelly that directed the Red Army QB which play to send to the QB on the field, if Kelly wasn't happy, he always had the override.

I'm reading between the lines. There was some terse mention of Molnar and Kelly not being on the same page but I think that was after Molnar was gone. Crist's shortcomings and Rees account for some of the problems with the offense but the failure to make adjustments to counter the defense doesn't fall at Crist's or Rees feet. IF you have a DE with a 5.9 forty you don't expect him to be a pass rusher. You call the plays to maximize your strengths and offset your weaknesses on defense or offense, that's coaching.

I agree with you here. I'm sensing that this was a combination of things. Perhaps Kelly nixed certain plays from being called because he felt that his quarterbacks were too mistake prone or simply unable to make it happen. You can look at that partially as the quarterback's limited ability (Rees) and/or the inability of the position coach to adequately train them.

I wonder for sure what the dynamic was between them. I can't imagine it was a negative one, but then again Kelly is a passionate guy and I'm sure he got pretty pissed when he saw Molnar's kids commit mistake after mistake that cost the team games.

Regardless, Kelly is known as a QB guru and ultimately should have stepped in. I don't know why it took a long time to adjust. But also, that's why it was good to let Molnar go. If your team could have arguably been in a BCS bowl but was held back by some horrid play by a certain position, it's hard to justify bringing that coach back.

I think it was huge to make Martin the new QB coach. Seems like he'll have a better read on what Kelly wants and perhaps the two will work better together. Need this position to be much, much more successful next year.

 

[ChiRish]

1). the main problem with our offense was inconsistent play at the QB position --- I refuse to say "bad" play, because in my eye the general performance was not "bad" and many times quite good. Still, this was the main problem with the offense.

2). there is no universe in which Coach Kelly is going to say bad things about members of his coaching staff to the media during practice or the season. There is also no universe in which he did not have total control of what play ultimately was called in. Heck, you can tell that just by watching the sideline action. The problem, in my opinion, regarded the information that Kelly was getting [in more than one way].

3). Coach Molnar at the least frustrated the boss. Kelly said this about as clearly as he is ever going to say anything about another specific colleague once Molnar left and Martin was promoted. Talking about Martin and not Molnar, Kelly then said that what he was looking forward to working with Martin as a person that was precisely on the same page with him, understood how he likes to run the offense, and would apply that synchronicity to opponent analyses and game-planning. One might invent other interpretations for this, but I cannot believe that this was anything but a "let those who have ears to hear, hear" type of comment.

4). If my hypothesis is correct, the systemic dysfunction between Kelly's and Molnar's offensive philosophy created more problems than just in-game decisions. I believe that Kelly came to believe that Molnar was improperly "seeing" the opponent and what we best could plan to emphasize against them. [As an aside, I've come to believe that many IE posters have an extremely unrealistic and simplistic idea of what goes into game planning in the previous weeks. Modern football requires WAY more than flinging a system out there and just out-athleting your opponent]. The dysfunction [and this does not say that Molnar's vision cannot work for a team that HE sculptures] would cause "errors" in the planning war-room even earlier in the week. A head coach needs to depend upon his coordinators to thoroughly scout the opponents, determine weaknesses and strengths against what we actually have, and set the superstructure for maximizing our own strengths and minimizing weaknesses. This is something that's complicated and any coach might have a tough time clearly seeing that he is in an unhelpful relationship over just a few games.

Exactly. Great post. We often tend to forget how much work goes into each week's plan. That's one reason there's so many coaches in the first place.

More to the point, this is the precise reason why the head coach and offensive coordinator need to be on the same page. If there is a fundamental difference in philosophy or something similar, it's a recipe for stagnant, confused, and ineffective offense.

 

[ChiRish]

I think it is as simple as three coaches were hired as mistakes and are gone.

Kelly never threw anyone under the bus.

Molner never held all the authority at Cinci he did at ND. Kelly couldn't take anything back because so much needed to be done and he had so many more time constraints at ND. (Things like moving Martin earlier were not an option before he did it this post-season. I think originally, Kelly saw Quinn here.)

Okay so don't believe everything you hear: Kelly never surrendered the play calling, he did some work with the qb's, mostly frustrating himself, and there was always conflict between Molner and everyone. Same with the other two coaches that left.

Well put. Those coaches were hired at the beginning of Kelly's tenure. No coach in America can nail all of the hires right. At least Kelly is going through and replacing parts that he knows need to be replaced.

Coaching profession is such a fluid and everchanging field. It's gotta be tough to keep good coaches on staff all the time.

 

[adsnorri]

Molnar left because he was not given free reign of the quarterbacks or the offense like he was at the other schools.

Kelly took over the quarterbacks and the offense from molnar. In the beginning it was only part of the time which created conflict because the quarterbacks were geting two stories ; one from kelly than one from molnar.

I remember when we played michigan and crist got hurt. Nate montana went in and the first play was a trick play. Molnar was on the headset screaming to not run that play but we did anyway. Instant int.

How do I know? I know a close family member. Kelly wants his name stamped on this one, which is fine. Thats why molnar left, no hard feelings because he wanted to be a head coach anyway.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Discussion started in the Who Is Likely Next thread on Molnar's Offense. I'm starting to new thread to stop the high jacking there. I had replied to a OMM post on the Spring Game noting that the offense would emphasize NOT looking like the Charley Molnar offense. A couple of people chimed in which led to bery's post. I started to respond but realized we were highjacking a recruiting thread and my post would take us further away from recruiting. There seems to be enough people interested to justify a separate thread so here we go.



Where did you see "strong hatred" or any hatred for that matter?

Charley Molnar was the OC AND the QB coach. Last presason there was no clear cut #1 going into the season. Fans railed that Crist was clearly #1. Kelly in his PCs noted that the Crist and Rees were in a dead heat despite "the coaching staff reviewing all drills and practices". Crist started opening day and wasn't #1. Rees came in after the weather delay. As the weeks wore on it became apparent that there really wasn't a #1, ND had two #2s.

Did Crist and Rees hold back Molnar's offense or did Molnar not have a #1 ready to play?

Why did it take so long to get Hendrick ready for "a limited package"?

When defenses dropped back extra defenders to blanket Floyd, what changes to the offense did Molnar make to counter? Did he make any?

When defenses gave Rees the under taking away the ahem, "long" ball did Molnar call plays to take advantage of that or was Rees still directed to look for Floyd 15 or more downfield?

Fans complained that Rees locked on Floyd and then Eifert(who was also Crist's favorite target before he locked on Rudolph both for what should be obvious reasons) did Molnar direct him (either Rees or Crist in '10 and '11) to look for other receivers).

IF defenses were keying on Floyd and Rudolph/Eifert did Molnar's offense take advantage of that by using them as decoys. Did he have his QBs (either one) pump and fake to Floyd going long and them hit another receiver underneath?

IF defenses were dropping back extra pass defenders did ND run delays underneath? Use Wood on a wheel route?

ND had a TALL receiving corps yet a Red Zone scoring problem. Why weren't Crist/Rees throwing ball after ball into the corner utilizing that height advantage. Yes, Rees can't throw a rope 50 yds. But a corner fade isn't 50 yd play nor take a rope. It's a finesse play that takes practice. Since Rees didn't have to spend time in practice with QB runs why wasn't the corner fade a standard.

This is the one thing that confused me the most about either Halftime adjustments or Rees being able to adjust. Kelly's offensive style, in the past, has been known for one step drop by the QB and hit the slants. Why we did not have TE's or slot or X recievers hitting slants all the while Floyd is being double-covered and a safety cheating Floyd's way. That is where my frustration was last year. IMO, we could have been eating up 6-8 yards a play on many occaisions.

But I am just a peon.... and I am growing a mullet.

Diz

 

[Bogtrotter07]

OMM: You have an excellent point. You could carry it further in my opinion. The discordance with Molnar saw its way into recruiting. Remember, recruiting was by committee. Positions coaches had to sign off. Of the three positions coaches that left, only running back recruiting maintained continuity.

As far as pulling out one play, from the Michigan game a year ago, I don't know that that shows much of anything. Molnar did not have free reign with the offense at Cinci; maybe that is why things got so conflicted. The fact is Molnar and Kelly did not have the same relationship at Cinci as they did at ND.

I do believe that Molnar, Hinton, and Warriner had their eye on other positions, early on. One or more saw Notre Dame as not much more than a resume reference. So any information letdown, coordination was broader than just Molnar, and therefore more pervasive, and deadly to the offense. Proof of this hypothesis is putting Martin, Kelly's go to guy in front of the offense, (keeping the line coach the run game coordinator.)

 

[Redbar]

I hate to over simplify what many other posters have established is a complex relationship, and a complex dynamic divvying up staff responsibilities in game plan and recruiting, but I don't think it is necessary to figure out how much Molnar or any other assistant held back our offense. It is all CBK's responsibility. Period. We have not had consistent play and development at various spots on the offense not just quarterback also arguably at receiver. So, since it is ultimately CBK's responsibility, and he wasn't satisfied with the results, a change needed to be made. Hopefully it will be mutually beneficial where Coach Molnar is concerned. However, I also firmly believe that for us to see real change on offense the change in staff was a start but probably should and will continue with some changes by CBK himself.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Amen! Redbar.

You know my little Zurick Accounting Gnomes tell me that there has never been a one page thread with more communication, interchange of ideas, nee, raw words posted, ever in the history of IE, let alone the history of the Internet, ever!

 

[Patulski]

IF defenses were keying on Floyd and Rudolph/Eifert did Molnar's offense take advantage of that by using them as decoys. Did he have his QBs (either one) pump and fake to Floyd going long and them hit another receiver underneath?

I think Kelly's offense, like all spread offenses, is effective when you spread defenses out and have athletic guys who can win battles in space. We had no problem doing it against weaker teams, but when we got up against more athletic teams we struggled.

Below is a clip that shows Kelly's frustration. He has a play where Wood is isolated in open space with USC's linebacker Hayes Pullard who's 6-1 230, but Wood can't beat him in open space and Kelly is pi$$ed.

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A lot of focus has deservedly been placed on Rees, but if Kelly is going to use the same offense, he's going to have to get more guys who can win battles in space against elite teams.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I think Kelly's offense, like all spread offenses, is effective when you spread defenses out and have athletic guys who can win battles in space. We had no problem doing it against weaker teams, but when we got up against more athletic teams we struggled.

Below is a clip that shows Kelly's frustration. He has a play where Wood is isolated in open space with USC's linebacker Hayes Pullard who's 6-1 230, but Wood can't beat him in open space and Kelly is pi$$ed.

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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TixOX1kwIdU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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A lot of focus has deservedly been placed on Rees, but if Kelly is going to use the same offense, he's going to have to get more guys who can win battles in space against elite teams.

Very good point. Also, I'd like to add that execution also causes decent plays to look terrible when they fail. One big play that comes to mind was that quick pass to Cierre Wood behind the line of scrimmage (I think there were a few actually) against SC. The one I am thinking of is towards the end of the game, if CW catches that ball then he goes atleast 30 yards. He had a ton of green in front of him. But, it turned out to be a very ugly looking play. Kelly's offense will be extremely effective when he gets all the players on the same page, and when execution becomes second nature. It relies on momentum, and keep the defense off-balance and guessing. He can do so much out of 1 formation, the plays just have to executed so the defense is lost.

Now, does the execution fall on the players? Or coach? My feeling is a little of both. I cant imagine that BK will run a play against SC that his team has never practiced, or practiced with poor results. I think Mike Floyd (for obvious reasons became the go-to guy every play) My feeling is that since the offensive security blanket will be leaving in the first round the ball will be getting spread around to different players therefore feeding the nature of what makes his spread offense so succesful. Now, we just have to hope that they develop a rhythem and not make stupid mistakes.

Kelly's offense is fairly simple, and doesn't need the typical prototype weapons to be successful. He just needs someone who can distribute the ball to the offensive weapons effectively (spread=spread the ball to every player on the field eligible) and he needs the athletes to pretty much "do them" when they catch the ball. Just worry about where they need to be and make a play. The only downside is that it does require the ball carrier to make a play on his own in space, so it needs studs on the field.

Theo Riddick
Cierre Wood
DaVante Neal
Davaris Daniels
Tyler Eifert
TJ Jones
Amir Carlise
George Attkinson

All these guys are more then capable of make plays with the best playmakers in football. They all have the (potential) speed, size, and quickness to make Kelly's offense flow nicely, and effectively even with Tommy Rees at QB aslong as he smartens up and hasnt hit his mental plateau (we all know he hit his physical one). If we have either Hendrix or Golson step up we can be that more efficient because their ability to run the ball must be accounted for.

I could be wrong, (I know this is rather simplistic) but it's my feeling that Kelly's offense is more suited for "track stars", or players who are young with raw talent (speed/size) than a more prostyle offense that is a lot more indepth.

 

[ChiRish]

I think Kelly's offense, like all spread offenses, is effective when you spread defenses out and have athletic guys who can win battles in space. We had no problem doing it against weaker teams, but when we got up against more athletic teams we struggled.

Below is a clip that shows Kelly's frustration. He has a play where Wood is isolated in open space with USC's linebacker Hayes Pullard who's 6-1 230, but Wood can't beat him in open space and Kelly is pi$$ed.

<! -- Google Video HTML Code -- >

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TixOX1kwIdU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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A lot of focus has deservedly been placed on Rees, but if Kelly is going to use the same offense, he's going to have to get more guys who can win battles in space against elite teams.

Really good point. And that's what he's trying to recruit. That's the type of play in his offense that Gilyard would blow up for 60 yards. And hopefully that's exactly the type of play that Cierre will blow up now, along with Brown and Neal.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'll take Isaiah Pead for twenty yards, even ten, on that play. I'm still not ready to build a shrine to Cierre.

 

[BGIF]

Really good point. And that's what he's trying to recruit. That's the type of play in his offense that Gilyard would blow up for 60 yards. And hopefully that's exactly the type of play that Cierre will blow up now, along with Brown and Neal.

I'll take Isaiah Pead for twenty yards, even ten, on that play. I'm still not ready to build a shrine to Cierre.

Thinking back I don't recall Cincinnati WRs &RBs going up against the likes of USC defenders. When we envision UC's spread running wild, envison who they played against.

Back in '09 if ND got to play Southeast Missouri St, Fresno St, Mami (OH), and Illinois instead of Michigan, Southern Cal, Stanford, and Michigan St, Charlie Weis might still be the head coach. And Kelly at ND facing UC's schedule would be playing in a BCS game.

Yes, in '09 with a "miserable" 6-6 team, ND lost to PIT by 5 and UCon by 3. UC's awesome Spread Offense that year went 12-0 in the regular season. UC beat UCon by 2 points and PIT by a single point.

Yes, Gilyard and Pead had some exciting plays that year but when they played the Gators and got doubled up on 51-24, Pead rushed 7 times for 48 yds with a long of 12. Receivingwise, Pead had 1 reception for 7 yds while Gilyard had 7 catches for 12 yds. Neither one had a play over 12 yds and neither one scored.

14 of UC's 24 pts were scored in garbage time after UF cleared the bench with a 44-10 lead.

Wood had 119 carries in '10 for 603 yds, 3 TDs and 20 catches for 170 yds and 2 TDs.

As a 2nd year player in '11 he rushed 217 times for 1102 yds and 9 TDs. He had 27 catches for 189 yds and NO TDs.

He's matured as a rusher (4 x 100 yds games and 3 in the 90's) and blocker but I don't recall him "breaking" any pass plays. He averages about 7.5 ypc, no YAC to speak of. Maybe as a 3rd year player he adds that dimension this year.

 

[Patulski]

Thinking back I don't recall Cincinnati WRs &RBs going up against the likes of USC defenders. When we envision UC's spread running wild, envison who they played against.

Back in '09 if ND got to play Southeast Missouri St, Fresno St, Mami (OH), and Illinois instead of Michigan, Southern Cal, Stanford, and Michigan St, Charlie Weis might still be the head coach. And Kelly at ND facing UC's schedule would be playing in a BCS game.

Yeah, but Oregon-a spread team with speed- has faster guys than we do, which is why their spread put up 35 against USC last year and 53 points against Stanford, while we scored 17 and 14 respectively. In that clip I posted, Oregon's LaMichael James would have used his speed to go around the edge towards the sideline. He might not have scored, but his speed would have gained more yardage compared to Wood, who just got stymied.

 

[NYMIKE6]

Problem-Speed, Resolution-Neal

 

[Irish Fam]

He didn't follow his blocks... I am a fan of Cierre because he has confidence and skill, but it is stupid plays like that that can kill a drive... He literally has two offensive lineman downfield driving defensive backs into the ground and he opts to bounce to the outside and go one on one with a linebacker. And in that one on one he tries to run him over... I would be purple in the face if I were Kelly too

 

[BGIF]

Yeah, but Oregon-...

Yeah but with Kellen's throwing arm ... and he had no moore (sic) size or speed than Rees ...

I was commenting on Wood, Gilyard and Pead, the guys mentioned, playing in spreads against different quality defenses week after week.

 

[BGIF]

He didn't follow his blocks... I am a fan of Cierre because he has confidence and skill, but it is stupid plays like that that can kill a drive... He literally has two offensive lineman downfield driving defensive backs into the ground and he opts to bounce to the outside and go one on one with a linebacker. And in that one on one he tries to run him over... I would be purple in the face if I were Kelly too

He also tried to run the lineback over with a beeline for his chest. Armando Allen, Darius Walker, and Autrey Denson, all without Wood's speed, would have gone inside OR outside. They got they're yards making the FIRST guy miss, not by trying to run over the first guy.

I'm expecting that as a 3rd year player Wood will be a smarter player which usually is the case.

 

[Irish Fam]

He didn't follow his blocks... I am a fan of Cierre because he has confidence and skill, but it is stupid plays like that that can kill a drive... He literally has two offensive lineman downfield driving defensive backs into the ground and he opts to bounce to the outside and go one on one with a linebacker. And in that one on one he tries to run him over... I would be purple in the face if I were Kelly too

He also tried to run the lineback over with a beeline for his chest. Armando Allen, Darius Walker, and Autrey Denson, all without Wood's speed, would have gone inside OR outside. They got they're yards making the FIRST guy miss, not by trying to run over the first guy.

I'm expecting that as a 3rd year player Wood will be a smarter player which usually is the case.

lol ummm....

I completely agree with you. I just have to believe that he will take that next step. In splitting a ton of carries with Jonas he did get over 1000 yards so it isn't like he is a bum, but it's time for him to put his hat in the ring of top backs in the country

 

[Patulski]

Yeah but with Kellen's throwing arm ... and he had no moore (sic) size or speed than Rees ...

I was commenting on Wood, Gilyard and Pead, the guys mentioned, playing in spreads against different quality defenses week after week.

The point is still the same: The more skill position speed you have in spread offenses, the better you are. The same goes for power football: The more power you have at tight end, H-Back and tailback the better you are. I don't care who the QB is, whatever the offense is you've got to win the skill position battles.

Darron Thomas benefited from USC and Stanford having to bring safeties up close, which opened up the passing game. Still, their running back De'Anthony Thomas averaged 16 yards per catch against USC and 20 yards per catch against Stanford. You wanna know why? Because he's fast as hell.

Even when dropping 8, like BC did, we couldn't use our speed to run in what should have been wider lanes, or run jailbreak screens where our linemen could easily get upfield to block their dropping linebackers. We just didn't have a lot of skill position speed last year. Hopefully Daniels, Atkinson and Neal's speed can make us a more potent spread offense this year.

 

[returnofthemack]

The point is still the same: The more skill position speed you have in spread offenses, the better you are. The same goes for power football: The more power you have at tight end, H-Back and tailback the better you are. I don't care who the QB is, whatever the offense is you've got to win the skill position battles.

Moore benefited from USC and Stanford having to bring safeties up close, which opened up the passing game. Still, their running back De'Anthony Thomas averaged 16 yards per catch against USC and 20 yards per catch against Stanford. You wanna know why? Because he's fast as hell.

Even when dropping 8, like BC did, we couldn't use our speed to run in what should have been wider lanes, or run jailbreak screens where our linemen could easily get upfield to block their dropping linebackers. We just didn't have a lot of skill position speed last year. Hopefully Daniels, Atkinson and Neal's speed can make us a more potent spread offense this year.

I think you mean Darron Thomas. Kellen Moore was Boise's QB who racked up stats and wins against some of the worst teams in the country.

 

[Patulski]

I think you mean Darron Thomas. Kellen Moore was Boise's QB who racked up stats and wins against some of the worst teams in the country.

Yep. Edited. Thanks.