What actually is happening with our team?

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Bogtrotter07

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Man Mike
Really dense insanity manifesting here. Simple-minded comments about the complexities of recruiting as if someone can force decisions upon people. Four decommits over the season: one probably couldn't get it, one followed position coach to OSU, one followed good friend/coach to Houston, one seems to want to be an olympic track star. None mind-bendingly unimaginable. Took chance on two Armsteads [who wouldn't have?]. etc etc etc.... Why the heated screaming of intolerance??

What actually is happening with our team? I wrote down the position players just now. I was easily able to list THREE DEEP excellent athletes for this coming year at every position but O-line, which might be one or two players short [depending upon Golic]. THREE DEEP. Without thinking about what we do for next year's class.

Let's say I started a team with [picking among many gems] Kiel/Golson at QB, Wood/Mahone at RB, Eifert/Koyack at TE, Martin/ Martin, Watt/Hanratty, Cave/Hegarty, Lombard/Stanley, Prestwood/Nichols in the O-Line, Toma/Russell at slot, Daniels/Ferguson, Jones/Brown at WRs..... a real bunch of chumps, eh? Of course Kelly recruited none of those, did he?

Hmmm... Lynch/ Hounshell, Tuitt/ KLM at DE, Nix/Day at NT, Te'o, Niklas, Shembo, Councell, Williams, Grace, Fox, Moore across the LBs, Shepard/ Prosise, Brown/ Atkinson, Slaughter/ Badger, Motta/ Collinsworth across the D-Backfield --- and Baratti, Wood, Jackson, Hardy.... and Spond, Rabasa, Okwara, Calabreese ... and Jones, Springmann, Schwenke. What a pathetic roster!!! "Extra O-Guys" like Riddick, GAIII, McDaniel, Welch, Harrell, Hendrix --- some of my choices were arbitrary because of the wealth.

What-in-the-He!l do people want? If people don't realize that this roster is loaded with talent, why do they watch football? They can't understand what they're watching. Should Coach have shot high or not? You can't blame him for not loading the rosters with five-stars if you also criticize him for leaving spots open for them. If those high dice roll gambles whiffed, well we've still got that loaded roster above. What can anyone really claim that they know for sure we've lost?

All this is sparked by Deontay. To that "problem", I have four words: "Chris Brown Davaris Daniels".

Mike, sorry for starting this thread with your post, but it is so apropos. Thanks for the great start!

With Kelly, character is everything. I see it in everything he does. I see it because it has become more important to me as I grow to maturity.
Let’s start with a little relevant timeline:
• Last summer Jordan Prestwood transferred to ND from FSU
• This winter Charlie Molner left the coaching staff. At that time the Scott Booker was announced as a new coach, with a position TBD.
• Molner was followed closely by two more coaches. The three were quickly identified as “never quite fitting in.”
• Amir Carlyle transferred in and John Goodman was granted a fifth year.
• Two new highly praised coaches were hired, (panned by the peanut gallery, when those around the football business throughout the country were asked, the hires turned out to be “brilliant,” in terms of individual quality and coaching ability.
• After this recruiting cycle, Notre Dame has between two and three times the players, that can play at a high level, at every position.

With me so far?

I heard a couple of stories I could not dismiss. One was about a top skilled recruit that we had on our board for only a short while. It seems he wanted to set conditions for his playing for the college he ended up at, instead of it being the other way around. Also, I have heard more than once there were sticking points for each of the athletes we lost months before thing blew up with any of them. Coach Kelly laid it out. Character is king. That is the first and foremost interview quality that the coach looks for. It is the hardest to interpret. Look at any of the four; they weren’t the person that the coaching staff thought they recruited.

Whether it is grades or self-discipline, knowing what you want, or setting goals, there is a common quality among this year’s recruits, from Day, to Shepard to Ferguson, to Turner. Baratti and Brown have it as does Okwara. Kiel said it in his interview, “let me know where I can help.” I didn’t see it in the four that left, over and over, their attitudes left me short and their personal presentation left me unsure.

Why? Because in this day, if a coach doesn’t mine that quality character, he has to rely on something else like over recruiting and one year scholarships. At Notre Dame, Kelly needs his players to walk through walls if he says so, to achieve team goals.

Another illustration of this is a conversation that my father, a WWII vet who was awarded a Bronze Star with clusters had with me when I was a kid. After I announced that I would like to enter the military, he told me that if I ever went in the service, to expect to be treated badly in the beginning, and that they would do horrible things to me. I will never forget him looking in my eyes and saying, “because when you are in the field, and someone starts firing a machine gun at you, and they tell you to hit the ground you will do it without thinking, even if it is in a pile of cow ****.”

So many young men today have met with success and have dreams of NFL stardom in their eyes. They are surrounded by hangers on that don’t know the first thing about anything. And of course our society rewards shortcuts and the quickest path to the top, when it is hard work every time.

If you look at the time line events from above, you will see how Coach Kelly put himself in a perfect position not to have to depend on any one recruit in this class, which is a necessity if he ever wants to be successful.

As far as some of the comments today: I cannot believe that any of you vitriolic posters would be willing to reveal that about yourselves. Much of it was something some hormone therapy could cure; some of it was so out there that you should just get a new hobby. Weis may have needed this recruit or that; Kelly does not; and his recruits know it. They will have to put up or shut up. Get used to it!

Simply stated, Kelly needs as many players ready to play at a high level. That is happening. This year's class is proof. I am kind of proud that the coaching staff doesn't feel like they have to kiss ***. I am not going to say another thing. Kill the thread or begin a mature discussion, either is fine with me.
 
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irishfanjho15

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As I agreed with you in another thread earlier, Kelly is rivaling character with the age-old saying about cash. That it is king.
 

PANDFAN

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First two posts are exactly why I love ND and feel BK is the right man for the job and he has the same mentality that has been missed since Holtz....big Lou said it best in his tweets and showed the type of men ND is making....and it makes me proud to be fan!
 

Irish4Life09

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Very nice post.Even though I got a little caught up in the insanity today, I whole-heartedly agree with you.
Just think though, as crazy as some of our fans are, at least we aren't Egyptian soccer fans...
 

BobD

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Excellent post Bog! Can I join this gang? The ledge jumpers in the other threads are depressing me.
 
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NDinFL

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Bog, you're brilliant.

Sometimes I have to be reminded myself, that it takes time, the right people, and the right players to truly change the culture of a college football program.

As alluded to before, Big Lou has shown the rather large chasm between mindsets that Charlie's kids had, and What Kelly's kids have.

I get that feeling that we are almost there...

Excellent post Bogs
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Excelent post Bog! Can I join this gang? The ledge jumpers in the other threads are depressing me.
__________________

Come up with the name and I will buy the first round for everyone!
 
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Grahambo

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Bog, excellent thread my friend. I try to pride myself on being positive about this team and as level headed as they come but even I couldn't have said it any better.

Time for me to:

PowerRangersDancing-1.gif
 

Irishman77

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I mean this in the kindest way, but looking at our team under a microscope we can focus on why we love our entire roster (as I do). I did this my senior year. I looked at all my teammates and how much I loved and believed in all of them. We looked unstoppable!

Then we got throttled most weeks...the problem is we look great until you put this much scrutiny and time in the elite programs roster.

Unless we sign 30 every year and cut peoples scholarships when they suck we will not be able to compete with some football factories out there.

With that being said, I fully believe in Kelly! I think with all the limitations he is our 5star coach that has the ability to develop his kinda players to elite BCS status.

We will always be let down if we compare ourselves to others that play by different rules...this is what pisses me off! I think losing Greenberry is nothing short of a disaster. I read that losing Floyd will benefit our passing game due to more targeted receivers. This is BS IMO. Having a 5 star receiver is not the problem. Not having other elite receivers and a D2 qb is the problem. The qb situation will be fixed going forward with Rees on third string duties..the WR is our GLARING need. Yes I love Brown and Ferguson, but we need more of these guys. Throwing to Toma,TJ and Theo gets you another 8-5 with lots of luck. Sorry to vent but and don't mean to be disrespectful. Just my honest 2 cents.
 

Redbar

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I posted this in another thread:
I know everyone is still reeling from the surprise flip today but I think it can't be understated that we did get a very good class of young men that will be able to make this a better football team for years to come. Heck we are already a really good team, a couple of bad breaks/decisions and we lose one ball game(Stanford). A few years ago we could not have played with the national powers and now if we don't beat ourselves we beat everyone except Stanford and maybe USC, although we clearly showed we can play with them. USC and FSU from a talent standpoint can play with almost anybody. I don't even consider the big SEC schools with their 115 signees in 4 years true competition, at some point they need to be seen for what they are which is semi-pro. If OSU or USC wants to race to follow the SEC's lead there is nothing we can or I would say should do about it. We are at the pinnacle of AMATEUR COLLEGE football, we should be thrilled with the position of our program and I would not be too negative about the state of the ND nation.

Well done with this thread it needed to be said in a broad big picture way.
 

Irish Houstonian

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To be honest, based on the on-field performance of 2010 & 2011 (not to mention the controversy that ensued...) I believe that ND is one good/great QB away from being a BCS team in the immediate future.

So had we not gotten Kiel, or not had a potential stud like Golson waiting, then like most I would be drinking the hemlock. But we got two shots to lead us to the promised land, and that ain't bad.

WR's don't mean anything w/o a QB, and a great QB can get the ball to any average WR. So while the loss of Greenberry is tough, Gunner's potential always raised my optimism by many more orders of magnitude.
 

irishtrain

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First two posts are exactly why I love ND and feel BK is the right man for the job and he has the same mentality that has been missed since Holtz....big Lou said it best in his tweets and showed the type of men ND is making....and it makes me proud to be fan!
He's getting enough to win-this guy and staff will coach them up and they should win. Let the debutaunts go other places
 

returnofthemack

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Posts like that are what consistently impress me about ND. I disagree with much of what you wrote, but that's because I'm pessimistic and am jaded. However, I've only been an avid fan of ND for 5 years, and I'm jaded, yet a lot of you have been fans for 20+ years and show no signs of slacking optimism. I applaud you for that and envy your mental fortitude.
 

chyrspchuck

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Mike, sorry for starting this thread with your post, but it is so apropos. Thanks for the great start!

Simply stated, Kelly needs as many players ready to play at a high level. That is happening. This year's class is proof. I am kind of proud that the coaching staff doesn't feel like they have to kiss ***. I am not going to say another thing. Kill the thread or begin a mature discussion, either is fine with me.

Excellent post!!!!
 

Rhode Irish

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This thread has restored my faith in this board, which had been waning. Its impossible not to be disappointed when something happens like it did today, but when something goes wrong that is when perspective is truly valuable.
 

BMT

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Great point I think Shumate is like a firecracker ready to go off- All American potential-watch his tape- we are talking physical and nasty-two things the ND defense needs, i.e. alittle more Lynch like attitude!!!!!
 

SlainteForever

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New Poster in fact 1st time. Love ND football and have my whole life as well as my family. Come from an Irish Catholic family from Jersey City, NJ. I have been watching this board for 5 years and think it is the absolute best!!!! Just wanted to say if you think this class is bad or the coach didn't do his job you weren't looking at recruiting 6-7 years ago. I was just not on this site and this site is far better than any you will find that is why I have been coming here for the last 5 years. Great and interesting conversation and level headed for the most part. Don't know why people freak out about recruitments, some are great, some are bad, most would say it is the coaching and the person who is in charge of how great they are. I say its the person. If someone commits or decommits its the person the are. I think ND is on the way back but time will tell. Hopefully not my last post but just want to say love this board and all everyone who thinks the coach is at fault or they didn't do enough certainly hasn't followed recruiting.
 

phgreek

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Boggie...Nice job.

I try only to psychoanalyze Urbie...that said, alot of the cliff jumping comes from guys embarassed that some kid chose Houston....a nobody school over Notre Dame. Sure he'd have been great to have...probably a nice young man. But our collective problem is, we take an act that makes no sense to ANYONE and turn it into a whack on our credibility...look, the dog thats been beat too much routine gets old...stop cowering and wimpering. Leme help ya...its an 18 year old kid, who may not have wanted the pressure of competing at ND, maybe he didn't see a clear path to starting immediately, maybe he saw something in himself that made him shrink from the challenge...had he chosen FSU, tOSU, Bama, LSU, etc...I'd be more upset...had he chosen Stanford I'd be bummed...this is not an indictment of ND...its the reality that sometimes a kid sees a path more safe and comfortable.

No I don't think we are a BCS team next year...and we weren't going to be had we got everyone we wanted in this class...what we are is building. No we cannot compete in a NC game in year 3...but we can continue to methodically increase our talent, depth and performance at every position. And with our staff, we can get there in a way that is a source of pride for all of us. We will have mentally tough football players who execute...had we just had a little of that this year, can you imagine...so I'll take the 10-15th ranked recruiting class if they don't wilt like lillys.

Put it in perspective a little...would you take finishing in the top 10-15 for a couple years with 10-15th ranked recruiting classes...or do you love getting 3rd-9th ranked recruiting clases and finishing outside the top 25 every effing year?

Look at how Kelly's players have performed...do any of you doubt how this thing is going to go in the long term?

Again, love the kids we got, wish luck to the ones who chose another path...and there isn't a problem with ND, so drop the complex...
 
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Who'saWildManNow

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Bog, I can't say enough about how perfect your post is.

I literally wasted two hours of my day trying to logically explain to the irrational children on facebook why they were embarrassing themselves and our fan-base as a whole.

Like Kelly said, we're not "better" than anyone but you're shopping down a different aisle. Sadly, our fans come from all over the store. "Spill in aisle 6!"
 

50milesSE ND

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Thank God for this post. People were really getting annoying with the disappointment about the class.
 
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