Upshot for the Rest of the Class

CarrollVermin

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Lots of updates and removals. Approximately 4 spots left... very realistic potential to close with Westerkamp, Armstead, Armstead, Fuller... which would be incredible.

This is shaping up as my "ideal" situation, although I do not know if I want to take Armstead for only one year, especially if we can land Wright. Still, either of those combinations would make me extremely happy.
 

Rhode Irish

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If we took both Armsteads it wouldn't impact the scholarship situation much, because I think Arik would sit a year in football anyways and use a basketball schollie his freshman year, then he would functionally take the scholarship Armond used the following year. So compared to a typical situation, we could basically get two players for one scholarship, have a guy ready to go right away and a blue chip stud waiting in the wings. Would be nice if it works out that way.
 

IrishLax

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If we took both Armsteads it wouldn't impact the scholarship situation much, because I think Arik would sit a year in football anyways and use a basketball schollie his freshman year, then he would functionally take the scholarship Armond used the following year. So compared to a typical situation, we could basically get two players for one scholarship, have a guy ready to go right away and a blue chip stud waiting in the wings. Would be nice if it works out that way.

Interesting theory, I don't know if I agree because I see him playing immediately, but it would at least buy us "time" if we came in at, say, "86" players for the inevitable transfer or two to occur while he's on a basketball scholarship. No matter what way you slice it, every year you have a guy or two decide to leave the program.

I also think if we land Armond and Arik, Cwynar might not be brought back for a 5th year and we could have an extra scholarship to use on either Neal or Wright.
 

ThePiombino

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Anyway we slice it, it's time for a some of these "elite" prospects who are taking ND seriously to either sh*t or get off the pot. The train is about to leave the station, with or without them.
 

Rack Em

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Anyway we slice it, it's time for a some of these "elite" prospects who are taking ND seriously to either sh*t or get off the pot. The train is about to leave the station, with or without them.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XmSdTa9kaiQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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What's amazing is that the recruiting is going well and IMO, the season was a disappointment.

They probably saw that the young players were the better players on the team, and Kelly & Diaco & Martin are all great recruiters.
 

irishroo

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If we took both Armsteads it wouldn't impact the scholarship situation much, because I think Arik would sit a year in football anyways and use a basketball schollie his freshman year, then he would functionally take the scholarship Armond used the following year. So compared to a typical situation, we could basically get two players for one scholarship, have a guy ready to go right away and a blue chip stud waiting in the wings. Would be nice if it works out that way.

I asked about this in a different thread and was told that the schollies will not work that way. Even if Arik redshirts his freshman year his scholarship would count against football and not basketball because he is still part of the football program.
 

ThePiombino

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I asked about this in a different thread and was told that the schollies will not work that way. Even if Arik redshirts his freshman year his scholarship would count against football and not basketball because he is still part of the football program.

That is correct. The rule is as follows:

Anyone who participates in football is counted in that sport, even if he does not receive financial aid from the football program. An exception exists for players at non-scholarship FCS programs who receive aid in another sport.

**To elaborate:

Rules for multi-sport athletes

The NCAA also has rules specifying the sport in which multi-sport athletes are to be counted, with the basic rules being:[18]

  • Anyone who participates in football is counted in that sport, even if he does not receive financial aid from the football program. An exception exists for players at non-scholarship FCS programs who receive aid in another sport.[19]
  • Participants in basketball are counted in that sport, unless they also play football.
  • Participants in men's ice hockey are counted in that sport, unless they also play football or basketball.
  • Participants in both men's swimming and diving and men's water polo are counted in swimming and diving, unless they count in football or basketball.
  • Participants in women's volleyball are counted in that sport unless they also play basketball.
  • All other multi-sport athletes are counted in whichever sport the school chooses.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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So when do classes start for the EE's? When is Tee officially going to be in class so I have 1 less thing to worry about (in light of the Darby fiasco).
 

IrishLax

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Tee should be on campus in 7 days, classes start 1/17.
 

IrishLax

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Unless he magically shows up on USC's campus tomorrow... he already missed his EE window there... so I'm not really sure what you're worried about. He's 100% Irish.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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Unless he magically shows up on USC's campus tomorrow... he already missed his EE window there... so I'm not really sure what you're worried about. He's 100% Irish.

In light of last nights debacle (and recruiting in general), I feel nothing is a given until EE's are in class or signed LOI's are in hand.
 

Old Man Mike

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I fully accept the sentiment of the Most Interesting Man in Maine. I'd like to take a different cut at this year's recruiting though.

A team has twenty-two position players to field. In any given "average" year, a coach does not count on a freshman manning one of them, though some precocious ones do. In fact you don't count on that many sophomores starting either. [Our D-Line etc are VERY unusual]. Let's, just for discussion purposes, say that you would hope that each recruiting class could get you 9 or ten players who would start at least two years --- make it mathematically simple and say 19 juniors and seniors starting. [I'm leaving out ST players, though they'd average recruiting one "new starter" per year, and we have one in Daly].

So, I, the coach, will think that I've done well if I can see 9 or ten really good ones in each year's recruiting class. These guys will start two, maybe even three years for me, and I'll be solid everywhere.

Who does it seem that we'll get this year? Shepard, Shumate, Prosise, Turner, Baratti, Greenberry, Brown, Ferguson, Russell, Mahone, Decker, Harrell, Stanley, Okwara, Jones, Day..... how many of these guys do you feel will be starters as upperclassmen? In principle, when you count to nine or ten, you should say :thanks coach, great job!!

And we're not done. What if some other names are Armstead, Wright, Ekanem, Garnett, Fuller, etc? How's Coach doing on the 9/10 upperclass starters rule?? What if you count Carlisle, even Badger, or the elder Armstead, as joining the team in a given year??

How's the Old Coach doing??
 

Irish YJ

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I fully accept the sentiment of the Most Interesting Man in Maine. I'd like to take a different cut at this year's recruiting though.

A team has twenty-two position players to field. In any given "average" year, a coach does not count on a freshman manning one of them, though some precocious ones do. In fact you don't count on that many sophomores starting either. [Our D-Line etc are VERY unusual]. Let's, just for discussion purposes, say that you would hope that each recruiting class could get you 9 or ten players who would start at least two years --- make it mathematically simple and say 19 juniors and seniors starting. [I'm leaving out ST players, though they'd average recruiting one "new starter" per year, and we have one in Daly].

So, I, the coach, will think that I've done well if I can see 9 or ten really good ones in each year's recruiting class. These guys will start two, maybe even three years for me, and I'll be solid everywhere.

Who does it seem that we'll get this year? Shepard, Shumate, Prosise, Turner, Baratti, Greenberry, Brown, Ferguson, Russell, Mahone, Decker, Harrell, Stanley, Okwara, Jones, Day..... how many of these guys do you feel will be starters as upperclassmen? In principle, when you count to nine or ten, you should say :thanks coach, great job!!

And we're not done. What if some other names are Armstead, Wright, Ekanem, Garnett, Fuller, etc? How's Coach doing on the 9/10 upperclass starters rule?? What if you count Carlisle, even Badger, or the elder Armstead, as joining the team in a given year??

How's the Old Coach doing??

Certainly get it, but when I see Bama, LSU, USC, etc., etc., on top of the recruiting and national rankings every year, I want more than 9/10. I don't really need them, but It makes things so much easier...... the past 15+ years have been hard... I'd like an easy decade please.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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Certainly get it, but when I see Bama, LSU, USC, etc., etc., on top of the recruiting and national rankings every year, I want more than 9/10. I don't really need them, but It makes things so much easier...... the past 15+ years have been hard... I'd like an easy decade please.

ND doesn't grey shirt, oversign and accept Juco transfers,so it will be difficult to match the depth you see in the $EC.
 

Irish YJ

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ND doesn't grey shirt, oversign and accept Juco transfers,so it will be difficult to match the depth you see in the $EC.

Harder yes, but we are doing it on the DL. It can be done. ND seems to be easing up on transfers, which will help. I'd be happy if we can keep our average star rating close to 4. I do believe ND can bring in 5 or 6 5star recruits a year, and reduce the number of 3star. I know stars are not everything, but they are certainly and indicator. If BK can win, I think recruiting will follow. For most of the 5star kids, Ws are what it's all about. Not all, but most.
 

stlnd01

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Certainly get it, but when I see Bama, LSU, USC, etc., etc., on top of the recruiting and national rankings every year, I want more than 9/10. I don't really need them, but It makes things so much easier...... the past 15+ years have been hard... I'd like an easy decade please.

Also, it's not just about recruiting guys who can "start." At this point we need guys who will be better football players than the starters they're replacing - otherwise we're stuck at 8 wins forever.
Manti Teo and Carlo Calabrese are both starting inside linebackers, but there's a big difference between them when it comes to results. That's why landing guys like Darby and Armstead (and Lynch and Tuitt and Shepherd and Greenberry) is so important.
 

Irish YJ

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Also, it's not just about recruiting guys who can "start." At this point we need guys who will be better football players than the starters they're replacing - otherwise we're stuck at 8 wins forever.
Manti Teo and Carlo Calabrese are both starting inside linebackers, but there's a big difference between them when it comes to results. That's why landing guys like Darby and Armstead (and Lynch and Tuitt and Shepherd and Greenberry) is so important.

+1000
 

arahop

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I love it. these kids can't even get through an 8th grade reading level...... I want these kids that can't even spell. I went to Holy Cross and Couldn't even get into to Notre Dame.
 

Old Man Mike

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??? your 9/10 upperclass starters DO push your starters earlier, DO replace weak ones quickly, DO provide the two-&-three deep prior to starting. ??? Plus why in the world would anyone read our current and past year's list and come to the conclusion that Kelly has ONLY gotten 9/10 "good ones"?? The whole point of the post was to bring some perspective on the general hysteria of certain percentages of the board who fly into fragments every time we don't hit a homerun. AND to place some perspective on how mind-bogglingly well Kelly is succeeding BEYOND the necessities. I'm counting WAY beyond 9/10 on both our last year's and potential this year's class lists. Seemingly, perspective and analytical thinking has left the building.

Posting on boards is often the real life analog of "Let no good deed go unpunished".

Simply put: Coach and the staff are WAY beyond the minimal good necessity which every football program needs to succeed. And he deserves great credit for that. And we need to relax on whether he's stocking the ammo needed for producing a powerhouse. It is good to remember that this is only his second true season of recruiting, as the first year was desperation
"get-what-you-can" after most of the stores have closed.
 
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IrishLax

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The Westerkamp whiff (still trying to wrap my mind around what drove him to that decision... I'm currently settled on "Nebraska has no wide receivers with any talent and I've got a better chance of playing) plus Darby decommit has really freed some things up. Just made an update to remove some more guys.

Guys on the horizon of being added are Alton Howard, Leonte Carroo, Marcus Rios and Anthony Standifer. But right now there is nothing concrete going on with any of them, just smoke. Ronald Darby will be added to the list if his in-home with ND goes well. From what Tee has posted, it seems like that ship has pretty much sailed, but we'll see.

Daje Johnson has not gotten much interest (if any) from ND despite him (really more his mother) showing interest. With Amir Carlisle coming in, I doubt he picks up any.

ND has 5 scholarships open now with a NEED at CB and serious desire in another WR/QB... the need at WR is definitely tempered by the fact that Keivarae Russel is just about certain for slot after picking up Amir "The Future" Carlisle to play RB. Pay attention for decisions from the Armsteads leading up to 1/15, and then after that who knows. If ND misses on Arik and Armond all of a sudden we're wiiiiiiide open on schollies and might take a guy like Schyler Miles.
 

Whiskeyjack

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There's been a lot of surprisingly negative commentary regarding our chances with Neal lately. It confuses me because, to the best of my knowledge, we're still the only school to which Neal has taken an OV, and he reportedly had a great time.

How could we be fading already if he hasn't visited elsewhere yet? Are people just assuming we're going to lose out because of Urban Meyer and OSU being his childhood favorite?
 
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IrishLax

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There's been a lot of surprisingly negative commentary regarding our chances with Neal lately. It confuses me because, to the best of my knowledge, we're still the only school to which Neal has taken an OV, and he reportedly had a great time.

How could we be fading already if he hasn't visited elsewhere yet? Are people just assuming we're going to lose out because of UM and OSU being his childhood favorite?

UM is a childhood favorite of Davonte? I'm a bit confused... UM as in Michigan?

No, I think people are pessimistic because he likely isn't going to make a decision until the week after NSD. ND doesn't over-sign and wants to use all available schollies... either through a 5th year or player... so it seems unlikely we land him if he waits that long to make a decision.
 

Whiskeyjack

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UM is a childhood favorite of Davonte? I'm a bit confused... UM as in Michigan?

I meant Urban Meyer. Sorry for the confusion.

No, I think people are pessimistic because he likely isn't going to make a decision until the week after NSD. ND doesn't over-sign and wants to use all available schollies... either through a 5th year or player... so it seems unlikely we land him if he waits that long to make a decision.

That makes sense. Makes you wonder why kids wait until after NSD to commit. It basically ensures that the only programs with "space left" will be the football factories that oversign and don't give a sh!t about their players. Perhaps that's indicative of where Neal expects to land.
 

IrishLax

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Schyler Miles is out.

Nelson Agholor significantly downgraded. Very little chance we land him.
 
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