Is this a "well coached" football team?

[DillonHall]

I think Kelly is beginning to get it. If he was still at Cincy, there's no way he would have punted on 4th and 1 in BC territory. But he's learning that all he has to do is manage a win, and that even when he does win, nobody will be satisfied. He won, nobody was satisfied. Business as usual. Now he has to win them all, at which point nobody will be satisfied until the final play of the final game, when he'll get a six month grace period till the second guessing starts again. The only consolation he'll have if he wins a NC is that some day he'll be sanctified and compared to the then current coach, who will pale in comparison in every way until he wins a NC at ND. At ND, it's NC or bust. That's just the way it is. The good thing is that Kelly is a fighting SOB, which is more than I can say for Davie, Willingham or Weis. He'd kick every one of their asses, and his team is beginning to reflect that. Will it be good enough to win a NC? We'll see. If he duplicates the recruiting class he got in 2011, it's a good sign.

The punt on 4th and 1 was without doubt the right move, considering BC's lackluster offense. But every situation has to be analyzed within its own context; if we were 9-1 with a BCS berth on the line, not a single fan would have booed that decision. Kelly's gotta fight through criticism (of course he's going to get it at ND) and just win.

 

[NDinFL]

BGIF doesn't pick fights.

He counters with logic, historical comparison of stats, and facts.

 

[DillonHall]

BGIF doesn't pick fights.

He counters with logic, historical comparison of stats, and facts.

That's what I thought too prior to this past week.

 

[NDinFL]

Not meaning you specifically, but if you go over the line on a claim, or something of the sort (Tommy is AWFUL, Kelly needs to be fired)

BGIF, and a few of the other logical ones on here WILL call you out on it.

this isn't ESPN, where you can get away with spouting off any little insanity you want, and then not have to own up to it.

EDIT: just reitterating, I don't specifically mean you DillonHall. It's happened to everyone

 

[DillonHall]

Just for the record, I don't think I've said a single thing that's been completely 'over the line.' When I've been given logic that contradicted my initial impression of a topic, I've been open to accepting new viewpoints. There are others who have been far more stubborn and unrelenting.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Just for the record, I don't think I've said a single thing that's been completely 'over the line.' When I've been given logic that contradicted my initial impression of a topic, I've been open to accepting new viewpoints. There are others who have been far more stubborn and unrelenting.

You've called me specifically "stubborn".... Why should I go along your line? What makes your line of thinking correct? Am I allowed to form my own opinion? You've asked me to stop saying that Tommy is 12-2 because it makes me look look like a fraud...Who the hell are you to tell me what to think? I haven't told you jack crap how to feel...just offering my opinion. Is that ok? Do tell??

 

[gkautz10]

You've called me specifically "stubborn".... Why should I go along your line? What makes your line of thinking correct? Am I allowed to form my own opinion? You've asked me to stop saying that Tommy is 12-2 because it makes me look look like a fraud...Who the hell are you to tell me what to think? I haven't told you jack crap how to feel...just offering my opinion. Is that ok? Do tell??

I do not know what all was said, but HCTI you are a bit of an instigator so I have to side with Dillon on this claim.

 

[DillonHall]

You've called me specifically "stubborn".... Why should I go along your line? What makes your line of thinking correct? Am I allowed to form my own opinion? You've asked me to stop saying that Tommy is 12-2 because it makes me look look like a fraud...Who the hell are you to tell me what to think? I haven't told you jack crap how to feel...just offering my opinion. Is that ok? Do tell??

I haven't ever called you a fraud. And I don't think calling you stubborn is out of line, considering the overwhelming results of the poll. For the last time, I'll summarize my viewpoint: I have never disputed that tommy is 12-2 (it's a fact), but I have questioned the validity of the argument in exonerating some of his poor performances, as you have continued to do.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I do not know what all was said, but HCTI you are a bit of an instigator so I have to side with Dillon on this claim.

I'm not allowed an opinion??? Son, you've got a lot to learn in the world.

 

[BeauBenken]

Not meaning you specifically, but if you go over the line on a claim, or something of the sort (Tommy is AWFUL, Kelly needs to be fired)

BGIF, and a few of the other logical ones on here WILL call you out on it.

this isn't ESPN, where you can get away with spouting off any little insanity you want, and then not have to own up to it.

EDIT: just reitterating, I don't specifically mean you DillonHall. It's happened to everyone

I remember when I got my *** burned by BGIF for seeming to call out NDinLA on his claims of Urban Meyer not being a Notre Dame type of guy. I'm sure there are other times that BGIF has called me out too. The dude is pretty good at it. lol

 

[gkautz10]

I'm not allowed an opinion??? Son, you've got a lot to learn in the world.

Never said you couldn't have an opinion did I? My point is that you stir the part in the lot of these threads. I have learned quite a bit already, much of it did not come from an internet message board although. You also tend to lean on other people to finish your fights for you.

 

[NDinFL]

I remember when I got my *** burned by BGIF for seeming to call out NDinLA on his claims of Urban Meyer not being a Notre Dame type of guy. I'm sure there are other times that BGIF has called me out too. The dude is pretty good at it. lol

haha, BGIF is almost robotic with that kind of stuff

I'd rather he be with us than against us though.

Good post Beau

 

[BGIF]

I remember when I got my *** burned by BGIF for seeming to call out NDinLA on his claims of Urban Meyer not being a Notre Dame type of guy. I'm sure there are other times that BGIF has called me out too. The dude is pretty good at it. lol

Something along the lines of ...

NDinL.A. made his bones on this board with in depth commentary on recruiting and football analysis not by making a thousand posts in the Word Game Thread.

 

[NDinFL]

see?

robotic

 

[McMeanass]

Oh please, we all have expectations of this team, so why is the fact that this team bumbled and stumbled there way through losses against South Florida, Michigan and USC a "him" problem. If they dont crap themselves in those games they are in the BCS conversation and would have met the expectations of many including the head coach himself.

Go back to the original topic and you have to wonder why they crapped themselves in those games and why are they still making so many mental mistakes at this point in the season? I think you have to look at coaching and cant lay everything at the feet of the players themselves.

What can you lay at the feet of the players then? I'm fairly certain Brian Kelly told Jonas on more than one occasion to hold on to the football (and don't construe this as Jonas hate...I love that kid). I'm sure he told Dayne many times to make sure he has the Center-QB exchange down and additionally not to take points off the board by throwing red-zone/end-zone interceptions. I'm sure he's told Tommy on multiple occasions to take care of the football, not force throws into coverage, not to lock onto his first read, not to take points off the board by throwing red-zone/end-zone interceptions, not to throw the ball above or behind him and the list goes on and on. To do what Brian Kelly has done in two years with the gaping holes he's had to deal with is pretty damn impressive.

I wanted to go to the BCS this year too. If it was up to me, we'd have won the National Championship. Unfortunately, we don't live in fantasy land so when the inevitable losses occurred I didn't lose my mind and start calling out the coaching staff. It's hard to pin 5 turnovers against South Florida on Brian Kelly. It's hard to pin 5 turnovers and a horrifyingly busted coverage in the last 30 seconds against Michigan on Brian Kelly. It's hard to pin a drive crushing fumble inches away from getting back into a game and the subsequent deflation of a 14 point swing on Brian Kelly. And since it appears to have ignited this thread, it's hard to pin a Jonas Gray ACL tear on Senior Day no less, which clearly affected our team on Brian Kelly. And BC played gritty football to boot.

tl;dr The short answer is that this is the best product I've seen us put on the field in well over a decade (yes, these teams are better than Weis' BCS teams) independent of wins and losses. To think this is anything other than a well-coached football team smacks of irrational Brian Kelly hatred.

The dude is doing the one thing we all ought to care about (re: making ND football better). That he may not be doing it fast enough (and what's the irrational timeline here anyway? NC in 4 years or you're toast??) should be no one's concern.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

What can you lay at the feet of the players then? I'm fairly certain Brian Kelly told Jonas on more than one occasion to hold on to the football (and don't construe this as Jonas hate...I love that kid). I'm sure he told Dayne many times to make sure he has the Center-QB exchange down and additionally not to take points off the board by throwing red-zone/end-zone interceptions. I'm sure he's told Tommy on multiple occasions to take care of the football, not force throws into coverage, not to lock onto his first read, not to take points off the board by throwing red-zone/end-zone interceptions, not to throw the ball above or behind him and the list goes on and on. To do what Brian Kelly has done in two years with the gaping holes he's had to deal with is pretty damn impressive.

I wanted to go to the BCS this year too. If it was up to me, we'd have won the National Championship. Unfortunately, we don't live in fantasy land so when the inevitable losses occurred I didn't lose my mind and start calling out the coaching staff. It's hard to pin 5 turnovers against South Florida on Brian Kelly. It's hard to pin 5 turnovers and a horrifyingly busted coverage in the last 30 seconds against Michigan on Brian Kelly. It's hard to pin a drive crushing fumble inches away from getting back into a game and the subsequent deflation of a 14 point swing on Brian Kelly. And since it appears to have ignited this thread, it's hard to pin a Jonas Gray ACL tear on Senior Day no less, which clearly affected our team on Brian Kelly. And BC played gritty football to boot.

tl;dr The short answer is that this is the best product I've seen us put on the field in well over a decade (yes, these teams are better than Weis' BCS teams) independent of wins and losses. To think this is anything other than a well-coached football team smacks of irrational Brian Kelly hatred.

The dude is doing the one thing we all ought to care about (re: making ND football better). That he may not be doing it fast enough (and what's the irrational timeline here anyway? NC in 4 years or you're toast??) should be no one's concern.

Well said.

 

[CarrollVermin]

We have all heard it before, "When life gives you lemons...".

The program has made progress. We are ranked in the BCS for the FIRST TIME since 2006. Let that settle for a second. That is a sign of progress.

There have been mental break downs, we still don't have speed at many of the key positions, and we have played a large number of young players. All that in perspective, yes, I had the expectation of a BCS game this year. I also did not expect us to lose to USF. But, this team has learned to win. We all know what happened in the two previous Novembers before BK arrived at ND. That cannot be ignored.

When was the last time you expected our defense to make a stop to win a game? There were points in this season where I knew our D would come through...that is progress. There are issues in the special teams that will be ironed out (that would be progress) and the QB situation will play itself out.

I absolutely like where we are headed. Has it taken longer than expected...well, when you play by the rules and you don't sell your program's soul to the devil, its bound to take a more natural progression.

 

[BeauBenken]

see?

robotic

lmao He probably didn't even look it up! He probably just remembers everything word for word!

 

[returnofthemack]

We have all heard it before, "When life gives you lemons...".

The program has made progress. We are ranked in the BCS for the FIRST TIME since 2006. Let that settle for a second. That is a sign of progress.

There have been mental break downs, we still don't have speed at many of the key positions, and we have played a large number of young players. All that in perspective, yes, I had the expectation of a BCS game this year. I also did not expect us to lose to USF. But, this team has learned to win. We all know what happened in the two previous Novembers before BK arrived at ND. That cannot be ignored.

When was the last time you expected our defense to make a stop to win a game? There were points in this season where I knew our D would come through...that is progress. There are issues in the special teams that will be ironed out (that would be progress) and the QB situation will play itself out.

I absolutely like where we are headed. Has it taken longer than expected...well, when you play by the rules and you don't sell your program's soul to the devil, its bound to take a more natural progression.

Not only are we in the BCS for the first time since 2006, but this is the first time that we had to claw our way up into the rankings late in the season. Under previous regimes, the end of the season was the time for perennial backsliding, while we have actually climbed up! That's what gives me hope for next season.

 

[kmoose]

Dude, what's your problem? Why don't you quote me on a more recent post? I'm not a stubborn bitch like other people and I already made some concessions on this debate. Don't be an *** for no reason.

Sorry, it wasn't personal. I read your post, and my logic meter pegged. I wasn't trying to be an ***, just trying to point out the logical flaws in the post. I've got nothing against you, personally.

One of the great things about this board, is that you can vociferously disagree with most of the people on here and, once the debate is over, the intensity of it is not held against you. I got my one and only "written warning" from BGIF, for quoting an mbeckha post and changing it around to make fun of him. Since that time, I've multiple reps from BGIF. HCTI and I have gotten under each other's skin before, and I've received numerous reps from him since. You just have to stay even keeled, and things will be fine. This isn't a commune. When things get tough, take your lumps without complaining too loudly, and you will earn others' respect for it. It's kind of like life, that way.

 

[DillonHall]

Sorry, it wasn't personal. I read your post, and my logic meter pegged. I wasn't trying to be an ***, just trying to point out the logical flaws in the post. I've got nothing against you, personally.

One of the great things about this board, is that you can vociferously disagree with most of the people on here and, once the debate is over, the intensity of it is not held against you. I got my one and only "written warning" from BGIF, for quoting an mbeckha post and changing it around to make fun of him. Since that time, I've multiple reps from BGIF. HCTI and I have gotten under each other's skin before, and I've received numerous reps from him since. You just have to stay even keeled, and things will be fine. This isn't a commune. When things get tough, take your lumps without complaining too loudly, and you will earn others' respect for it. It's kind of like life, that way.

Will send PM.

 

[Domer4ever]

What can you lay at the feet of the players then? I'm fairly certain Brian Kelly told Jonas on more than one occasion to hold on to the football (and don't construe this as Jonas hate...I love that kid). I'm sure he told Dayne many times to make sure he has the Center-QB exchange down and additionally not to take points off the board by throwing red-zone/end-zone interceptions. I'm sure he's told Tommy on multiple occasions to take care of the football, not force throws into coverage, not to lock onto his first read, not to take points off the board by throwing red-zone/end-zone interceptions, not to throw the ball above or behind him and the list goes on and on. To do what Brian Kelly has done in two years with the gaping holes he's had to deal with is pretty damn impressive.

I wanted to go to the BCS this year too. If it was up to me, we'd have won the National Championship. Unfortunately, we don't live in fantasy land so when the inevitable losses occurred I didn't lose my mind and start calling out the coaching staff. It's hard to pin 5 turnovers against South Florida on Brian Kelly. It's hard to pin 5 turnovers and a horrifyingly busted coverage in the last 30 seconds against Michigan on Brian Kelly. It's hard to pin a drive crushing fumble inches away from getting back into a game and the subsequent deflation of a 14 point swing on Brian Kelly. And since it appears to have ignited this thread, it's hard to pin a Jonas Gray ACL tear on Senior Day no less, which clearly affected our team on Brian Kelly. And BC played gritty football to boot.

tl;dr The short answer is that this is the best product I've seen us put on the field in well over a decade (yes, these teams are better than Weis' BCS teams) independent of wins and losses. To think this is anything other than a well-coached football team smacks of irrational Brian Kelly hatred.

The dude is doing the one thing we all ought to care about (re: making ND football better). That he may not be doing it fast enough (and what's the irrational timeline here anyway? NC in 4 years or you're toast??) should be no one's concern.

It's fair that the "players have to play" but it's also fair to say that the coaching staff is ultimately responsible for the product on the field and while better then under Weis, we are still seeing a lot of mental mistakes and uninspired football. Is this not a coaching issue? Kelly and the coaching staff shouldn't be free of blame of this.

Again to me the big issue is this team has looked completely unprepaired in the games the Irish have lost this year, and they were an on-side kick away from losing at home to 2 win BC squad last Saturday at home. When your talent base is better then every team on the schedule except USC, losing those games is tough to except especially in the manner in which they were lost with the team completely self destructing. Kelly has also self destructed himself with his sideline demeanor and quotes to the media, both of which were distractions this season.

I dont think anybody "hates" Brian Kelly. Every Irish fan would love to seem him and this team succedd, but there have certainly been enough issues in the past two years to question his coaching ability and if he is making the right decisions.

A big win against Stanford on Saturday would go a long ways in reaffirming my confidence in him.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

To BGIF, NDinLA

I truly do love the insight that you all bring to conversations, especially to informational topics. I have learned more about ND history, tradition, statistics, you name it, by reading you're posts. I do not have a post count anywhere near alot of the posters on this board, but its moreso out of time and my inability to just type some random off the wall thought that I can't fully explain logically. I have consistently repped each and all of you as some of the best posters on the site. However, what drives me (and I "think" others) upset is the "belittling" type of responses that are made when you disagree with another posters opinion. Granted (myself included), there are some very objectionable opinions out there, BUT why does anyone with a differing opinion have to be lambasted as a negative nancy or not a "true" ND fan?

I have made my displeasure with Rees known as have others. I just refuse to try to justify MY OPINION. Its not something that I need to justify as FACT. Its my opinion, justification for MYSELF is all that matters. I don't necessarily agree with Dillion or Domer4life about the coaching statements made, but I have no problems whatsoever excepting them as their opinion. I personally think that BK is great at actually "coaching" but struggles with play calling/game planning, but hey, thats just MY opinion.

THe point that I hope I can make (without pissing anybody off) is that I think there would be alot less dissension among board members if we could all have objectionable debates instead of taking each and every thread and pointing out why some person is an "idiot" ( doesn't have to be written, inference is easily attained by reading some replies) for having an opinion.

We aren't the coaches. We are fans of a team that we ALL so desperately want to return to glory. Most of the members on this board are members purely because of their ND fandom. There are certainly exceptions to the rule, but it would be hard pressed to question anybody's fandom that visits and posts on this board simply due to the fact that they are trying to gain information on ND when they come here. Trolls are obviously an exception, and are usually sniffed out fairly quickly, but most of the rest love ND just as much as we all do (EVEN NDOM..) and want the very best regardless of any differing opinion. In fact, I would venture to say that if anybody who "argues" an opinion on this thread was told at any given point that their opinion is "guaranteed" to be wrong, and it would be proven with results, that said poster would GLADLY STFU.

ANyhow, I rambled quite a bit there, but I just wanted to say something. The level of insight that some of the veteran posters bring to this board is what makes this board far and away the best ND forum on the Internet. WHy make these threads about who's right and wrong? Instead continue to bring the insight and maturity to the board instead of making it personal because of a difference of opinions...

And just to prove my point, just look at some of the gifts that I have given to NDinLA, BGIF, let alone the reps.. I truly mean everything that I said in each of those gifts/reps.


***EDIT***
Sadly I just realized how absurd it probably is to take my post serious with my Bob Ross "**** Michigan" avatar, but man, I REALLY HATE MICHIGAN!!!

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

To BGIF, NDinLA

I truly do love the insight that you all bring to conversations, especially to informational topics. I have learned more about ND history, tradition, statistics, you name it, by reading you're posts. I do not have a post count anywhere near alot of the posters on this board, but its moreso out of time and my inability to just type some random off the wall thought that I can't fully explain logically. I have consistently repped each and all of you as some of the best posters on the site. However, what drives me (and I "think" others) upset is the "belittling" type of responses that are made when you disagree with another posters opinion. Granted (myself included), there are some very objectionable opinions out there, BUT why does anyone with a differing opinion have to be lambasted as a negative nancy or not a "true" ND fan?

I have made my displeasure with Rees known as have others. I just refuse to try to justify MY OPINION. Its not something that I need to justify as FACT. Its my opinion, justification for MYSELF is all that matters. I don't necessarily agree with Dillion or Domer4life about the coaching statements made, but I have no problems whatsoever excepting them as their opinion. I personally think that BK is great at actually "coaching" but struggles with play calling/game planning, but hey, thats just MY opinion.

THe point that I hope I can make (without pissing anybody off) is that I think there would be alot less dissension among board members if we could all have objectionable debates instead of taking each and every thread and pointing out why some person is an "idiot" ( doesn't have to be written, inference is easily attained by reading some replies) for having an opinion.

We aren't the coaches. We are fans of a team that we ALL so desperately want to return to glory. Most of the members on this board are members purely because of their ND fandom. There are certainly exceptions to the rule, but it would be hard pressed to question anybody's fandom that visits and posts on this board simply due to the fact that they are trying to gain information on ND when they come here. Trolls are obviously an exception, and are usually sniffed out fairly quickly, but most of the rest love ND just as much as we all do (EVEN NDOM..) and want the very best regardless of any differing opinion. In fact, I would venture to say that if anybody who "argues" an opinion on this thread was told at any given point that their opinion is "guaranteed" to be wrong, and it would be proven with results, that said poster would GLADLY STFU.

ANyhow, I rambled quite a bit there, but I just wanted to say something. The level of insight that some of the veteran posters bring to this board is what makes this board far and away the best ND forum on the Internet. WHy make these threads about who's right and wrong? Instead continue to bring the insight and maturity to the board instead of making it personal because of a difference of opinions...

And just to prove my point, just look at some of the gifts that I have given to NDinLA, BGIF, let alone the reps.. I truly mean everything that I said in each of those gifts/reps.


***EDIT***
Sadly I just realized how absurd it probably is to take my post serious with my Bob Ross "**** Michigan" avatar, but man, I REALLY HATE MICHIGAN!!!

Well said, all. You should be posting more.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Well, OK, up to a point. It occurs to me however that BGIF and LA are also expressing THEIR opinions, and should be allowed the same privileges.

My observations of this board's behavior apparently differ from some who feel put upon. I see the Board as being fairly wide-open and when things are said that some [usually more knowledgeable or actually moderate-minded] poster thinks needs some corrective perspective, that poster lays it out there. BGIF is legendary for bringing actual facts to the table in an attempt to create better perspective.

As to "attitude": I find that it is remarkable that so many knee-jerk posters cannot see how such posts transmit "attitude" beyond their mere words. Often it is the attitude which is inspiring oppositional posts rather than the issue itself. In fact I have found that almost ANY topic is fine with persons such as LA and BGIF as long as the attitude within the post is civilized and reasonable. The attitudinal posters regularly use their responses to rewrite history and retreat to more defensible positions by claiming things like "I never said that". Literally and linguistically this sometimes is true, but the tone of the original posts was ringing loud and clear.

Arguments happen sadly trumping discussion. Too much testosterone. But one cannot ask the responders to simply tamp the fire down once called out. Sooner or later even guys like BGIF and LA will lay down the thunder [and I usually am in applause when they do]. Barring something getting all the way to banning, I do not notice any consequences to this procedure. No IE police are physically showing up at people's homes. The enjoyment level of the IE experience may be depressed, but that has already been accomplished by the initiating post if it is interpreted as being far enough off base. So who's "guilty" of depressing the fun?

Each board has its individual attitudinal environment. JPham, LA, BGIF, Terry, and our other "anchors" make IE what it is. That is, a Notre Dame football discussion board, loaded with information and a type of discussion which the anchors are trying extremely hard to make both civilized and helpfully positive to the image of the University and the Team [particularly as regards recruiting success].

 

[Irish52]

NO

Just wanted to get some general opinions on if people think this is a well coached football team?

To me I dont think they are. I think they have come out ill-prepared on occasions this year and I am not fully convinced Kelly and the coaching staff know what they are doing yet. Too many mental mistakes and look to lack confidence on occassion. I dont like what I have seen out of the Brian Kelly offense, which seems to want to go horizontal in the passing game and abandones the running game at inopportune times. Too tricky and cute. I have been unimpressed with Kelly as a playcaller and he does not appear to be this offensive genius he was sold as when he was hired. Is it strictly a QB issue or is the scheme of the offense the bigger problem? I cringe probably half a dozen times a game at plays called while the offense is on the field.

Defensively I dont like the 3-4, though they seem to be going with more 4-3 looks. Too many holes and confusion in the secondary and not enough pressure generated by the defensive front. Has forced very few turnovers this year. Not a big fan of "bend but dont break" mentality which is exactly what Diaco has ran all year long. It is a recipe for disaster against teams with legitimate QB's as we have seen.

To me the biggest thing is.....where is that signature, program changing victory where this team get's over on a team they are not supposed to beat? In my opinion they have yet to get one under Kelly. They beat USC without Barkley in the rain last year, and beat Michigan State at home this year, but are those program changing type victories? To me this team has yet to get that monkey off its back and I dont think it's a talent issue.

Thoughts?

Kelly has not coached at this level and is still learning....unfortunately, not fast enough. And, ND will not win a nat'l chamionsiip with Rees as qtrbk. Kiel may be the answer but, if not him, it's time to try Colson or Hendrix.

 

[NDinL.A.]

To BGIF, NDinLA

No problem whatsoever with your post.

First off, I completely agree with almost everybody that says Rees has not played well many times this season and that he has some major limitations that hold back the offense. I disagree with people who think someone else should be starting, for reasons that do not need to be rehashed for the millionth time. He's winning games as the starter, and the offense has improved immensely since last year. But I certainly hope that one of the youngsters steps their game up this off-season and gives Kelly something to think about next year when choosing his starter.

I realize some (probably many LOL) disagree with my take, or more specifically my posting style. Nothing has changed since I started posting here, but I think because I am a mod now people think I'm using my mod status to overpower conversations or make my points the points of the board. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing has changed. I'm kinda stubborn, and I argue my points strongly. I admit when I'm wrong, and I don't gloat when I'm right.

I've gotten into arguments with many posters who I've also later repped and/or been repped by. Nothing is personal in arguments (as long as we don't get into personal insults). It's just a message board in the end.

I guess I'm trying to say this: I'm like any other poster on the board who when he believes in something, I argue it strongly. Domer4ever's takes on this thread (our schedule is cupcake, Kelly's bad coaching, etc) - I completely disagree with and I stated so. Not as a mod (he's not in danger of getting banned or given a 'time-out' or anything), but as another Irish fan. Don't mean to belittle anyone - if my posts come across that way, then I truly apologize. We all get caught up in the heat of the moment, and I'm no different.

Hope that explains it clearly my man...

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

Well, OK, up to a point. It occurs to me however that BGIF and LA are also expressing THEIR opinions, and should be allowed the same privileges.

My observations of this board's behavior apparently differ from some who feel put upon. I see the Board as being fairly wide-open and when things are said that some [usually more knowledgeable or actually moderate-minded] poster thinks needs some corrective perspective, that poster lays it out there. BGIF is legendary for bringing actual facts to the table in an attempt to create better perspective.

As to "attitude": I find that it is remarkable that so many knee-jerk posters cannot see how such posts transmit "attitude" beyond their mere words. Often it is the attitude which is inspiring oppositional posts rather than the issue itself. In fact I have found that almost ANY topic is fine with persons such as LA and BGIF as long as the attitude within the post is civilized and reasonable. The attitudinal posters regularly use their responses to rewrite history and retreat to more defensible positions by claiming things like "I never said that". Literally and linguistically this sometimes is true, but the tone of the original posts was ringing loud and clear.

Arguments happen sadly trumping discussion. Too much testosterone. But one cannot ask the responders to simply tamp the fire down once called out. Sooner or later even guys like BGIF and LA will lay down the thunder [and I usually am in applause when they do]. Barring something getting all the way to banning, I do not notice any consequences to this procedure. No IE police are physically showing up at people's homes. The enjoyment level of the IE experience may be depressed, but that has already been accomplished by the initiating post if it is interpreted as being far enough off base. So who's "guilty" of depressing the fun?

Each board has its individual attitudinal environment. JPham, LA, BGIF, Terry, and our other "anchors" make IE what it is. That is, a Notre Dame football discussion board, loaded with information and a type of discussion which the anchors are trying extremely hard to make both civilized and helpfully positive to the image of the University and the Team [particularly as regards recruiting success].

OMM, the funny part is that I actually agree with your post. It is such a fine line though, and as with anything done through written correspondence, easily misconstrued. Having a large number of these conversations in person would no doubt change the tone of the arguments. On a forum however, its easy to read through a thread and see how the conversation goes from good to bad just by the tone of some of the responses. Some people need thicker skin, some really do need to re-think what they say (myself included), and some just clearly intend on pushing those buttons that others jump all over.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

First off, I completely agree with almost everybody that says Rees has not played well many times this season and that he has some major limitations that hold back the offense. I disagree with people who think someone else should be starting, for reasons that do not need to be rehashed for the millionth time. He's winning games as the starter, and the offense has improved immensely since last year. But I certainly hope that one of the youngsters steps their game up this off-season and gives Kelly something to think about next year when choosing his starter.

Trust me, I have zero intentions of rehashing this. I brought it up just for context of the post.

I realize some (probably many LOL) disagree with my take, or more specifically my posting style. Nothing has changed since I started posting here, but I think because I am a mod now people think I'm using my mod status to overpower conversations or make my points the points of the board. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing has changed. I'm kinda stubborn, and I argue my points strongly. I admit when I'm wrong, and I don't gloat when I'm right.

Unfortunately, I do think that the "mod" status has influenced quite a few people's opinion (including mine sometimes) when strong stances are taken. But, i don't think its any different than when somebody who matters (in this case your authority to IE) takes a strong stance that people disagree with. Politics are a perfect example of this. The one thing i would disagree with though is the bolded part. Look, I am the same way. I look at things from a logical perspective, and when people cannot comprehend the "logical" aspect of things, it drives me nuts. THey all want me to admit that I am wrong when in fact in my mind its got NOTHING to do with right or wrong, but rather logical vs illogical. I see this ALOT with your reactions sometimes. It happened directly with our argument. It took me awhile to really understand why, but then I think I realized it after re-reading my posts over an over. I made a statement that was flat out incorrect. At the time that I wrote the post, I really think its was misconstrued, simply because I didn't make the statement to support an opinion, but rather as an off the wall comment. In the context however, I can clearly see how it was interpreted.

I've gotten into arguments with many posters who I've also later repped and/or been repped by. Nothing is personal in arguments (as long as we don't get into personal insults). It's just a message board in the end.

Agree completely

Hope that explains it clearly my man...

Appreciate the time you took to explain.

 

[BeauBenken]

I feel like you could have just said that it's not fair for NDinLA and BGIF to argue with people because they're too good at it. lol