Sep 17 | Michigan State

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Spartan96

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Whiskeyjack said:
You're absolutely right. State always seems to have a fundamentally sound and balanced football team. ND hasn't had a fundamentally sound and balanced football team since Holtz left. Thus, you've beaten us pretty consistently.

That's not the case anymore, though. ND now has a fundamentally sound and balanced team. You won a nail biter last year because, in Dantonio's 4th year, your Spartans were more mentally tough; thus, you performed in crunch time while we didn't.

If the TOs, penalties, and defensive breakdowns during crunch time continue, MSU probably wins. If ND pulls it's sh!t together, the Vegas line makes sense.
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Whiskey -

With all due respect.....MSU hasn't exactly played up to their potential either and I know it's tough to tell with the competition. But I think it's a bit lop sided to think that just because it was a nail biter last year gives ND the edge since ND has gotten better and MSU has stayed the same or regressed? Our offense is much more dynamic this year and with a 3 year senior QB. We had NO full back last year during the game....our #3 TE was our FB. FB plays a huge roll in our offense. We had a true freshman at RB (Bell) who had a GREAT game against ND....and he's back again, bigger and faster than last year. Oh well....we'll see come 7:00pm EST Saturday.
 
Whiskeyjack

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Spartan96 said:
With all due respect.....MSU hasn't exactly played up to their potential either and I know it's tough to tell with the competition.
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I didn't say that MSU is always firing on all cylinders. I think the major difference between MSU and ND over the last 10-15 years is that ND has always had a major deficiency on at least one side of ball (offense under Davie and Willingham, defense under Weis, etc.) while MSU has tended to be a more balanced team.

But I think it's a bit lop sided to think that just because it was a nail biter last year gives ND the edge since ND has gotten better and MSU has stayed the same or regressed?
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My point was that last year's game was the 3rd of Brian Kelly's tenure. He was installing new systems on both sides of the ball, and players were still learning them. MSU, on the other hand, was starting its 4th season under Dantonio; you don't think that was a significant advantage for you last year?

And since you brought it up, yes, I think MSU's OL and overall defense has regressed from last season with all the starters lost. I also know for a fact that this Irish squad is significantly better than the one you faced last year.

Our offense is much more dynamic this year and with a 3 year senior QB. We had NO full back last year during the game....our #3 TE was our FB. FB plays a huge roll in our offense. We had a true freshman at RB (Bell) who had a GREAT game against ND....and he's back again, bigger and faster than last year.
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Cousins is a good QB, and the weapons at his disposal are better than last year. Your OL and defense? Not so much.
 
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Spartan96

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Whiskeyjack said:
I didn't say that MSU is always firing on all cylinders. I think the major difference between MSU and ND over the last 10-15 years is that ND has always had a major deficiency on at least one side of ball (offense under Davie and Willingham, defense under Weis, etc.) while MSU has tended to be a more balanced team.



My point was that last year's game was the 3rd of Brian Kelly's tenure. He was installing new systems on both sides of the ball, and players were still learning them. MSU, on the other hand, was starting its 4th season under Dantonio; you don't think that was a significant advantage for you last year?

And since you brought it up, yes, I think MSU's OL and overall defense has regressed from last season with all the starters lost. I also know for a fact that this Irish squad is significantly better than the one you faced last year.



Cousins is a good QB, and the weapons at his disposal are better than last year. Your OL and defense? Not so much.
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Agreed on OL questions....I think defense is a wash for as good as Jones/Gordon were....they were scary to watch in pass defense.

Man I wish they were playing tonight!
 
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Phil Steele's Week 3 picks can be found here.

Phil's Pick: ND by 3
Computer Points: 30-21, ND
Computer Yard: 467-278, ND
Weekly Poll: ND (51%)
+/-: ND by 16
Vegas: ND by 5
Click to expand...
 
Whiskeyjack

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Football Outsiders' Week 3 Previews can be found here.

Vegas seems confident that Notre Dame’s turnover issues aren’t systemic and that the Irish are going to stop coughing up the football at such an alarming rate. The F/+ ratings agree, ranking the Irish as one of only two top-20 teams to have suffered a loss this year. Despite that, something still doesn’t feel right about picking Notre Dame until they prove they aren’t just spectacular between the 20s. The fourth quarter defensive letdown against Michigan (especially in the secondary) was the first time in more than six games where the Notre Dame defense was exposed a weakness. Now in comes Michigan State, fresh off a destruction of Florida Atlantic in which the Spartans allowed the Owls to gain only one first down. The Spartans delivered a gut punch to Notre Dame in East Lansing last season with an overtime fake field goal, their seventh victory in the last 11 games of the series. Kirk Cousins ranks fifth nationally in completion percentage (79.1) and 14th in quarterback rating. Yeah, but Notre Dame is ready to break through, right? Right?
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If anyone knows how to successfully recreate a table (like those in the linked blog post, for instance) on this site, please teach me! Copy and paste doesn't seem to work, even with lots of editing.

Edit: Now that I think about it, BGIF is the only poster I can recall who creates coherent tables around here.
 
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NDFan4Life

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Whiskeyjack said:
Football Outsiders' Week 3 Previews can be found here.



If anyone knows how to successfully recreate a table (like those in the linked blog post, for instance) on this site, please teach me! Copy and paste doesn't seem to work, even with lots of editing.

Edit: Now that I think about it, BGIF is the only poster I can recall who creates coherent tables around here.
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Is this what you had in mind?

No. 15 Michigan State (+4.5) at Notre Dame (Saturday, 3:30 PM ET, ABC)

<table class="stats" border="2" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td align="center">
</td> <td colspan="2" align="center">OVERALL</td> <td colspan="2" align="center">When Mich. State
Has the Ball ...</td> <td colspan="2" align="center">When Notre Dame
Has the Ball ...</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">Category</td> <td align="center" width="65">MSU
(2-0)</td> <td align="center" width="65">Irish
(0-2)</td> <td align="center" width="65">MSU
Off</td> <td align="center" width="65">Irish
Def</td> <td align="center" width="65">MSU
Def</td> <td align="center" width="65">Irish
Off</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2011 F/+ Rk</td> <td align="right">27</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2011 FEI Rk</td> <td align="right">32</td> <td align="right">24</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2011 S&P+ Rk</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">17</td> <td align="right">16</td> <td align="right">12</td> <td align="right">26</td> <td align="right">31</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2011 Rushing S&P Rk</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">23</td> <td align="right">30</td> <td align="right">25</td> <td align="right">66</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2011 Passing S&P Rk</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">15</td> <td align="right">91</td> <td align="right">19</td> <td align="right">32</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2011 Std. Downs S&P Rk</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">35</td> <td align="right">46</td> <td align="right">5</td> <td align="right">51</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Run-Pass Ratio
(Std. Downs)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">69.9% Run
(24th)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">44.5% Run
(113th)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>2011 Pass. Downs S&P Rk</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">42</td> <td align="right">90</td> <td align="right">50</td> <td align="right">19</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Run-Pass Ratio
(Pass. Downs)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">29.7% Run
(73rd)</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">
</td> <td align="right">27.5% Run
(86th)</td></tr></tbody></table>
 
NYIrish14

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Whiskeyjack said:
What a douche nozzle. They've dominated the series against us, ripped our hearts out last season in an overtime victory, and their DC still feels the need to fire this petty crap at us?

I hope someone's on hand with a brown paper bag for Narduzzi after the Irish hang 40+ on his sophomore-filled defense.
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Someone tell me what he meant by "where the brown paper bag is". I didnt pick up on that. We choked?
 
NYIrish14

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Whiskeyjack said:
YES! How did you do that?



The implication is that our defense should wear brown paper bags over their heads (thereby hiding their faces in shame) because we choked.
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Well heres to hoping Manti misses the runner and nails that bastard on the sideline instead.
 
NDFan4Life

NDFan4Life

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Whiskeyjack said:
YES! How did you do that?
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I wish I knew.

J/K

I just copied and pasted the table from the link you provided and changed the font size. That's it... I think.

EDIT: I forgot that I switched the editor mode. See the button in the top right? It has the small A and the A. Click on that to switch modes.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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NDFan4Life said:
I wish I knew.

J/K

I just copied and pasted the table from the link you provided and changed the font size. That's it... I think.
Click to expand...

What browser are you using? I lose all formatting when I copy and paste with Chrome.
 
Whiskeyjack

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NDFan4Life said:
I use Firefox. As I said in my earlier post, try switching the editing mode.
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Editor mode did the trick, though it's not an option in Chrome. Guess I'll have to switch to Firefox for posting tables.

Thanks for your help.
 
NDFan4Life

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Whiskeyjack said:
Editor mode did the trick, though it's not an option in Chrome. Guess I'll have to switch to Firefox for posting tables.

Thanks for your help.
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No problem.

I used Chrome for awhile, but I couldn't get the Adblock to work properly. I've used Firefox since it came out. IMO, it's the best browser out there.
 
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Spartan96

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All stats, history aside.....my opinion is you guys played 1 moderately decent team in USF and one moderately bad team in M. Yeah you moved the ball....but it was against a USF and M defense. M let Western Michigan rack up nearly 300 yards in only 3 quarters. M was nearly the worst defense in the COUNTRY last year and it looks like they haven't improved much. But yeah, State has played 2 pansies and looked good doing so...what did that prove? Maybe nothing....maybe not. Lots of maybes......to say our OL and defense is worse than last year is just wishful thinking....because no one will actually know until they play. ND has played 2 mediocre BCS teams, put up a bunch of yards and lost. MSU has played 2 pansies and killed them. Let's buckle up and go Saturday!
 
Who'saWildManNow

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Spartan96 said:
All stats, history aside.....my opinion is you guys played 1 moderately decent team in USF and one moderately bad team in M. Yeah you moved the ball....but it was against a USF and M defense. M let Western Michigan rack up nearly 300 yards in only 3 quarters. M was nearly the worst defense in the COUNTRY last year and it looks like they haven't improved much. But yeah, State has played 2 pansies and looked good doing so...what did that prove? Maybe nothing....maybe not. Lots of maybes......to say our OL and defense is worse than last year is just wishful thinking....because no one will actually know until they play. ND has played 2 mediocre BCS teams, put up a bunch of yards and lost. MSU has played 2 pansies and killed them. Let's buckle up and go Saturday!
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Fair assessment.. But take away the red-zone turnovers and both games are ND blowouts, whilst gaining 500yds of offense. ND must play near mistake free ball or you will win by 10+.
 
NDFan4Life

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Wolverine1997 said:
Firefox is the best one to use. Internet Explorer is just awful.
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Agreed. I'm forced to use IE at work. I despise it. I used to have a Linux machine here at home. By far, the best OS around. No viruses and very easy upgrades. Not to mention, it's free. Firefox is usually the default browser for Ubuntu (a derivative of Linux). I bought a new system with Windows 7. No problems so far, but the minute it starts screwing up, I'm going back to Linux.

My apologies for going off-topic.
 
NDinL.A.

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Spartan96 said:
All stats, history aside.....my opinion is you guys played 1 moderately decent team in USF and one moderately bad team in M. Yeah you moved the ball....but it was against a USF and M defense. M let Western Michigan rack up nearly 300 yards in only 3 quarters. M was nearly the worst defense in the COUNTRY last year and it looks like they haven't improved much. But yeah, State has played 2 pansies and looked good doing so...what did that prove? Maybe nothing....maybe not. Lots of maybes......to say our OL and defense is worse than last year is just wishful thinking....because no one will actually know until they play. ND has played 2 mediocre BCS teams, put up a bunch of yards and lost. MSU has played 2 pansies and killed them. Let's buckle up and go Saturday!
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Sorry, I gotta call b.s. on this one. What exactly is mediocre to you??? South Florida has a ton of athletes, won 9 games last year, and is currently ranked 20th in the nation, just 5 spots behind you guys. Michigan I can see you saying being mediocre, but then again, they are ranked #26. I don't see how you say we started off our schedule with 2 'mediocre' BCS teams...if they are mediocre then by your very definition you guys are pretty mediocre. So all we have to do is not turn the ball over 5 times and we should roll.

Again, that is by your own definition...
 
phork

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Spartan96 said:
OK, just a bit of data to consider before you make any Vegas "prediction" a foregone conclusion:

MSU is 10-3-1 ATS(against the spread) against ND in the last 14 games
MSU is 10-4 straight up against ND in the last 14 games
MSU is 6-1 straight up at ND the last 7 road games
ND is 0-5 ATS in the last 5 games at home against MSU
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Stats are for losers.
 
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Flawless play would be nice, but if Irish can hold turnovers to just two or three instead of five .... then N.D. wins, no?.
 
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