ND & Texas to the Big 10?

[Whiskeyjack]

According to rakesofmallow, this information originated on a Northwestern message board and was later reported on a Cleveland sports radio show (Arute and Leach?)

I've not seen it reported elsewhere yet. Skepticism is in order for now. It just seems too legitimate to be a hoax.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

further, the likelihood of a playoff, in my eyes, DECREASES with a 4 super-conference landscape. the BCS will not go away unless it has to. with less undefeated possibilities, there will be less of a need for the BCS to go away.

I understand where you're coming from, but the "fairness" issue with undefeated teams getting locked out isn't the biggest threat to the BCS. It all comes down to money.

A playoff would generate a lot more money, and with four superconferences, moving to a playoff system will be too natural and lucrative to resist; let alone that it's an inherently easier and fairer system, too. The weekly popularity polls go away, and it all comes down to Ws and Ls.

As I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if they "preserved" the BCS in some form, like playing the semi-final between the Pac-16 and Big-16 in the Rose Bowl each year, but the current system would basically be gone.

 

[mick2]

According to rakesofmallow, this information originated on a Northwestern message board and was later reported on a Cleveland sports radio show (Arute and Leach?)

I've not seen it reported elsewhere yet. Skepticism is in order for now. It just seems too legitimate to be a hoax.

jack arute and former texas tech coach Mike leach have a national satellite radio show on the college sports network. pretty decent show but arute is difficult to handle sometimes.

i kinda hope its legit. you know swarbrick has got to be working something behind closed doors.

 

[DuffHouse12]

A playoff would generate a lot more money.

i don't disagree with that - but think of where all the new money would go - right now the Bowls make tons of money and the schools make tons of money. the agent that stands to gain MOST of the new money generated from a playoff is Disney/ESPN.

the reason they have their manipulative little hands in this is exclusively to be first in line for the TV contract to the playoffs. that is why there is a conference expansion story on their stations everyday. they're not stupid.

 

[rikkitikki08]

The SEC of the north, i might catch some heat for this but im not against the idea. If we are going to join a confrence which is bound to happen we might as well do it this way.

 

[402puck]

Everyone is saying win the division, win the league, go to the playoffs, it will be easier than the BCS.

But look at the divisions now:

LEGENDS
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern

LEADERS
Illinois
Indiana
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Wisconsin

Both of those divisions are going to be extremely difficult to win, and if this is eventually the fate of Notre Dame football, they will be perennial bottom feeders, as much as it pains me to say it. I don't want this to happen, and it will kill Notre Dame's chances of winning national championships, unless Brian Kelly has some sort of magic plan to get wins over Nebraska, Michigoon, Michigoon State, and Iowa every year.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Everyone is saying win the division, win the league, go to the playoffs, it will be easier than the BCS.

But look at the divisions now:

LEGENDS
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern

LEADERS
Illinois
Indiana
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Wisconsin

Both of those divisions are going to be extremely difficult to win, and if this is eventually the fate of Notre Dame football, they will be perennial bottom feeders, as much as it pains me to say it. I don't want this to happen, and it will kill Notre Dame's chances of winning national championships, unless Brian Kelly has some sort of magic plan to get wins over Nebraska, Michigoon, Michigoon State, and Iowa every year.

You cant say that, if we join the BIG 10 it wont be for a few years, lots of things change in college football on a yearly bases. It pains me to say this, this seems like its going to happen....this report doesnt scream bullshit

 

[DuffHouse12]

personally i'd like to see Notre Dame move to the Big East - that conference isn't going anywhere because of basketball and is VERY winnable.

how would the bowl games happen?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

i don't disagree with that - but think of where all the new money would go - right now the Bowls make tons of money and the schools make tons of money. the agent that stands to gain MOST of the new money generated from a playoff is Disney/ESPN.

Why are you certain that ESPN would benefit more than the schools from a playoff? The broadcasting rights for a CFB playoff would have be negotiated first, and the schools would make a killing selling those to the highest bidder. That might very well end up being ESPN, who would undoubtedly make lots of money off it, but the schools aren't stupid either. They'll get the best deal available to them.

And who cares if the Bowls stop making money?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Both of those divisions are going to be extremely difficult to win, and if this is eventually the fate of Notre Dame football, they will be perennial bottom feeders, as much as it pains me to say it. I don't want this to happen, and it will kill Notre Dame's chances of winning national championships, unless Brian Kelly has some sort of magic plan to get wins over Nebraska, Michigoon, Michigoon State, and Iowa every year.

ND's 2010 Sagarin SoS was 22. The average B1G SoS was 53.9. We can absolutely compete in the B1G.

 

[rikkitikki08]

ND's 2010 SoS was 22. The average B1G SoS was 53.9. We can absolutely compete in the B1G.

THIS ^^ We would play IU almost every season, we can very much so compete

 

[DuffHouse12]

Why are you certain that ESPN would benefit more than the schools from a playoff?

because the schools dont know who's going to the playoff ahead of time, which means the conferences would have to negotiate the contracts, then share then share that money with every team (about 65 teams or so in the super-conferences). ESPN, however, would get all the revenues (for themselves) gained by eliminating the 4 major bowls, some of which are on other channels (Fox has one CBS...).

and the reason why the bowls making money is important is because it disperses the profit incentives for being competitive. teams playing in things like the Gator Bowl and the Cotton Bowl still make a lot of money. under (from what i understand of this thread) the model we're going on - losing the conference championship of the semi-final could cost a team millions. it will forever change everything about college sports.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Everyone is saying win the division, win the league, go to the playoffs, it will be easier than the BCS.

But look at the divisions now:

LEGENDS
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern

LEADERS
Illinois
Indiana
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Wisconsin

Both of those divisions are going to be extremely difficult to win, and if this is eventually the fate of Notre Dame football, they will be perennial bottom feeders, as much as it pains me to say it. I don't want this to happen, and it will kill Notre Dame's chances of winning national championships, unless Brian Kelly has some sort of magic plan to get wins over Nebraska, Michigoon, Michigoon State, and Iowa every year.

If you aren't the best team in the country you shouldn't win the national championship. If you can't win your division, you aren't the best team in the country. Those divisions will be hard to win for ALL of the teams in them, not just ND. When we look at the schedule we're trained to see a hard slate and think "it will be hard to win a National Championship with this schedule" because we won't be able to win every single game on it, which we would need to do as an independent. No team in a superconference is going to run the table (at least not with any regularity), so that wouldn't need to be our focus.

And I'm not sure where your idea that ND would be a bottom feeder is coming from, either. If we would be a bottom-feeder in either of those divisions then there is no hope for us an independent, either.

 

[Rocket89]

because the schools dont know who's going to the playoff ahead of time, which means the conferences would have to negotiate the contracts, then share then share that money with every team (about 65 teams or so in the super-conferences). ESPN, however, would get all the revenues (for themselves) gained by eliminating the 4 major bowls, some of which are on other channels (Fox has one CBS...).

and the reason why the bowls making money is important is because it disperses the profit incentives for being competitive. teams playing in things like the Gator Bowl and the Cotton Bowl still make a lot of money. under (from what i understand of this thread) the model we're going on - losing the conference championship of the semi-final could cost a team millions. it will forever change everything about college sports.

This comment has me positively puzzled.

Team most definitely do not make any money off of the Gator or Cotton Bowl(s).

If the super conference actually happens and playoff is instituted, you'd see enormous amounts of money go to universities and their conferences.

If Ohio State and Notre Dame made a playoff and each won a game or two, the Big Ten would be splitting something in the neighborhood of $60-80 million.

Who really cares about ESPN in this instance?

 

[BeauBenken]

I've been trying to avoid this thread as long as possible but apparently all the discussion is here...

I'm just going to pout. I don't wanna join a conference!

 

[Rocket89]

In a superconference world you wouldn't have to go 12-0 to get to the national championship like ND would likely need to do now. If you win your league you have a shot. To me that is fair and minimizes the drawback of having a monster schedule.

That is true.

However, we would all agree this basically turns college football into the NFL, right?

I've been all for a playoff (not necessarily the superconferences though) and there was major outcry from people here how just putting in a playoff would ruin college football and its uniqueness.

Playoff+superconferences, while having a lot of positives, would essentially kill all of the things people hold dear with modern CFB. Going undefeated wouldn't matter much anymore, the big regular season games that are HUGE now, wouldn't be as big, etc.

I'm surprised there hasn't been as big of a backlash yet.

 

[mick2]

That is true.

However, we would all agree this basically turns college football into the NFL, right?

I've been all for a playoff (not necessarily the superconferences though) and there was major outcry from people here how just putting in a playoff would ruin college football and its uniqueness.

Playoff+superconferences, while having a lot of positives, would essentially kill all of the things people hold dear with modern CFB. Going undefeated wouldn't matter much anymore, the big regular season games that are HUGE now, wouldn't be as big, etc.

I'm surprised there hasn't been as big of a backlash yet.

this is what i dont like!

if we are forced to make a decision tho; being in a conference rather than being left holding the bag after all the realigning happens around us would be the better move. once tamu is officially out of the big12 i think its just a matter of time before 14-16 team conferences are the norm.

i'm hoping this is a precautionary measure by ND and maybe we wont have to go to a conference but right now it doesnt seem that way.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That is true.

However, we would all agree this basically turns college football into the NFL, right?

I've been all for a playoff (not necessarily the superconferences though) and there was major outcry from people here how just putting in a playoff would ruin college football and its uniqueness.

Playoff+superconferences, while having a lot of positives, would essentially kill all of the things people hold dear with modern CFB. Going undefeated wouldn't matter much anymore, the big regular season games that are HUGE now, wouldn't be as big, etc.

I agree, but it's probably inevitable with all the money at stake now. The current system has lots of endearing quirks, but it's not built to maximize revenue, and the lack of fairness/ transparency/ predictability becomes glaring when there are millions of dollars at stake.

I'm surprised there hasn't been as big of a backlash yet.

The inevitability is starting to sink in.

 

[Rhode Irish]

That is true.

However, we would all agree this basically turns college football into the NFL, right?

I've been all for a playoff (not necessarily the superconferences though) and there was major outcry from people here how just putting in a playoff would ruin college football and its uniqueness.

Playoff+superconferences, while having a lot of positives, would essentially kill all of the things people hold dear with modern CFB. Going undefeated wouldn't matter much anymore, the big regular season games that are HUGE now, wouldn't be as big, etc.

I'm surprised there hasn't been as big of a backlash yet.

I think the lack of a backlash, at least from me, is based on the feeling that this reformation of college football is inevitable. It is no longer a matter of "if", but "when". I'm not super happy about it, but I don't see the point of flying off the handle about it, either. The info that was presented here actually doesn't seem all that bad. We would be able to maintain our most important rivalries, plus add some intriguing new ones.

As far as ruining the purity of CFB, I'm a little torn. As ND fans, I don't need to explain how much I value tradition to you guys or why I'm a little hesitant to embrace wholesale change. On the other hand, it isn't like CFB is perfect the way it is and change could screw it up. In fact, its quite the opposite. CFB is making a ton of money, sure, but as an institution it is in a very tumultuous place. Big changes might be the next best thing to blowing it up and starting over again from scratch. When you consider that ND will be able to keep all of its traditional rivalries going, the downside of joining a conference is not what I had imagined it would be.

Yes, independence has been a part of our identity, but what price are we willing to pay to maintain it? It could cost us many of the games it has heretofore allowed us to play, and end any chance of Notre Dame winning a National Championship again.

 

[Irish2015]

The fact that no one has jumped with this story yet is making me question it a bit.

 

[alaskandomer]

Obviously we're all focusing on football, but if this report is true, it could very well explain why ND has not made an announcement regarding future hockey conference affiliation. All the buzz has been between the new NCHC and Hockey East, but perhaps our new hockey home will be the new Big 10 hockey conference which doesn't begin play until 2013. My preference is for us to retain our football independence, but if can maintain our traditional rivalries with U$C and Navy (Along with our Big 10 rivals), and add Texas, this doesn't look too bad.

 

[Rhode Irish]

The fact that no one has jumped with this story yet is making me question it a bit.

Really isn't much to report yet. Nothing has happened. Also, from what was in the OP, ESPN cannot be a fan of this and they basically set the agenda for what sports stories generate buzz.

 

[crzychris]

Forgive me if someone has posted this, but I think (if this is true) we know why Texas was absent during the Big 12's conference call concerning A&M...could they be trying to distance themselves?

Also, who owns the Big Ten network? Was ESPN (by buying the LHN) looking at this possibility a year before and want their foot in?

 

[crzychris]

According to rakesofmallow, this information originated on a Northwestern message board and was later reported on a Cleveland sports radio show (Arute and Leach?)

I've not seen it reported elsewhere yet. Skepticism is in order for now. It just seems too legitimate to be a hoax.

WildcatReport.com - Message Boards

The good folks on the buckeye and longhorn 247 forums are split. I guess the guy who posted this ^^ called for the same thing to happen last year. On the flip side, I guess he also called Nebraska before that came out.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

This is what I've wanted when it comes to a conference. Perfect.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

The same guy posted this later in the thread:

ESPN attorneys have already contacted the Big Ten regarding the content of this post. Again, I am in no way affiliated with the Big Ten conference nor should anything I write be considered credible in any context.
However, ESPN has unfairly used its bully pulpit to influence Texas stakeholders to prefer the PAC. The Big Ten feels that if the current trend of reporting that Texas only has interest in the PAC 12 continues, this would merit a major legal action against ESPN.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Ok at first it seemed plausible but this:

The Big Ten feels that if the current trend of reporting that Texas only has interest in the PAC 12 continues, this would merit a major legal action against ESPN.

...is far too nonsensical to be true. I think the guy is FOS.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

Not that I believe this to be the gospel but, if one conference were to get both ND and Texas...wow, lots O' money to be had.

 

[Praise thee]

In a superconference world you wouldn't have to go 12-0 to get to the national championship like ND would likely need to do now. If you win your league you have a shot. To me that is fair and minimizes the drawback of having a monster schedule.

Super Conferences and playoffs would really kill the College Football regular season. It'll be more like watching the NFL: Boring. The games will be much more meaningless. I'm probably the only BCS supporter left in the entire world, but I don't really think playoffs (or Super Conferences) are best for College Football.

And I really doubt Texas would move to the Big Ten. They're so far away from all the other teams. The Pac-12 and SEC will be the first conferences they look at if the Big 12 crumbles.

 

[IrishLax]

Super Conferences and playoffs would really kill the College Football regular season. It'll be more like watching the NFL: Boring. The games will be much more meaningless. I'm probably the only BCS supporter left in the entire world, but I don't really think playoffs (or Super Conferences) are best for College Football.

And I really doubt Texas would move to the Big Ten. They're so far away from all the other teams. The Pac-12 and SEC will be the first conferences they look at if the Big 12 crumbles.

I really think this is a huge fallacy. Lots of people believe playoffs would make the regular season less exciting, but I just don't see how. Every game will still matter TONS because you only play 12. And instead of the 90% of teams that are completely out of it by week 6 because they have 2 losses... you'll still be in the running for a shot at your conference title.

Also.... there will be more big OOC games under a 4 conference +1 playoff system because it will remove the downside from losing a game OOC. So all of the schools that duck playing good teams now (re: Michigan) will instead have incentive to go play an Alabama or a USC on a neutral site or what have you.