Defending the Triple option this yr..

irishtrinity

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I'm going to the air force game and i was wondering what you guys think about our triple option defense this yr, plus air force has a great QB...

last yr. navy rolled us on it just thinking about the game... i hate the triple option..
 

RyCo1983

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4-4 with D backs manning up, Manti bringing the PAIN.
 

calvegas04

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I watched a few Air Force games last year, and I would say they run more of a pro style offense. They don't have to get all fancy like Navy and Army
 

BeauBenken

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I watched a few Air Force games last year, and I would say they run more of a pro style offense. They don't have to get all fancy like Navy and Army

That's what I was thinking.

I thought they passed it more than they did though.
 

NDOM

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Heck, if it was me I would put 10 in the box and and blitz every play. I have this as one of our 4 losses unfortunately so I hope I'm proved wrong. This is another good game I like to watch.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I don't think we can get away with 8 in the box against AF and Navy. Both of those teams can and will torch you with the deep ball if you try it.

If we can take anything helpful away from the Army game, it's that speed among the LBs is especially important, so expect to see Fox (or even Motta) over Calabrese.
 

irishtrinity

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i can't wait to see our defense play so i can see if we are as good as i think we are this yr... now they did well last yr. i just thought i'd be safe and pick a easy game.. then noticed they looke pretty good plus we had a time with the option with navy just thinking you guys coulg give me a fresh look.
 

irish1958

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1} Always tackle the fullback with vigor on every play.
2} Always tackle the QB and make him pitch.
3} Have the DBs bring a little hurt on the HBs.
4} Size of the defensive line is no where as important as speed.
5} Be alert for the long pass.
If I were coach I would consider having the defensive line consist of linebackers and safeties, and play off a half yard or so.
 

Veer option

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'You don't defend the triple-option,' 'You attack it. You attack the fullback. You attack the quarterback. You attack the running back. You take away the pass. You take away the 'wish' (in wishbone). I'm not second-guessing anything Notre Dame's done (against Navy), that's just my philosophy." Lou Holtz.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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i can't wait to see our defense play so i can see if we are as good as i think we are this yr... now they did well last yr. i just thought i'd be safe and pick a easy game.. then noticed they looke pretty good plus we had a time with the option with navy just thinking you guys coulg give me a fresh look.

I wouldn't use either of the military academies as the benchmark for our defense. They give everyone fits because their systems are so unique.

I could see us dominating defensively for the first five games and struggling (perhaps even losing) against AF.

I respect the tradition and the debt we owe to Navy, but I really don't like these games. The academies are: (1) always underrated, so we get no credit for beating them and it seems like a huge upset when we lose; (2) their systems are so unique that we have to prepare longer for them than other teams (which means less time to prepare for the rest of our schedule); and (3) their cut-blocking always seems to injure a few key players.
 

jason_h537

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'You don't defend the triple-option,' 'You attack it. You attack the fullback. You attack the quarterback. You attack the running back. You take away the pass. You take away the 'wish' (in wishbone). I'm not second-guessing anything Notre Dame's done (against Navy), that's just my philosophy."

This. Plus score early and often so that they are taken out of their comfort zone
 

Whiskeyjack

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Someone on the II board wrote up a brilliant explanation of what we did to stop Army so well. To the extent you may find it interesting, here it is:

We played a 3-4 Cover 4 vs. Navy. Unfortunately, I deleted the game and can’t look at exactly what went wrong. What I do know is the defense was unsound. I know this because of the game the Navy FB had. If you’re playing it correctly, the FB should rarely get the ball (only when they block it a certain way that makes the FB the carrier). We didn’t get beat because of a 3-4. The front doesn’t matter. What matters is execution. Like I said, I wish I still had the game on my DVR. I think part of the problem was the coaches gave the OLB’s and safeties predetermined assignments. So instead of reacting to how Navy blocked the play, which would determine the proper assignments, our OLB would play the pitch and the QB would cut inside him. That’s just an example that I recall. They also got us good with their unbalanced formation.

Vs Army, we played a 4-4. The base alignments were:

DE’s in 5 techs (outside shade of OT)
DT’s in 2i’s (inside shade of OG)
ILB’s in 30′s (outside shade of OG at depth)
OLB’s outside end man on line of scrimmage.
Safety run the alley to direction of flow
CB’s deep half (essentially man-to-man vs the WR.

This alignment takes away the midline option and forces the veer option (FB aiming point at guard).

The DT’s just plug the A gap all day long.

The DE’s were responsible for “squeezing” the down block of the OT. Then they tackled whatever threat was there (FB). Squeezing the down block allows the ILB to flow over the top.

ILB’s read flow and check their B gap. If open, attack and tackle the FB. If closed, which it usually was, scrape to the C gap and play QB. The OLB’s read the wing back to their side and reacted to his block. Maintain outside leverage and play pitch on wide blocks by wing backs. Squeeze down blocks by wing backs and play QB.

We executed pretty much flawlessly that game. It was beautiful. However, we changed the structure of our base defense’s. This is not generally a good idea, but was acceptable because we didn’t know how to stop Navy out of our base defenses. So don’t be surprised if we come out in a 3-4 Cover 4 vs. Navy and Air Force next year.
 

rikkitikki08

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Load the box, i would rather get burned down field a few times then watch what happened last year during the navy game
 

IrishLax

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Load the box, put the onus on our senior CBs to do their job, let Harrison Smith play the single high safety role and roam the field. I'm very scared of Air Force but not of Navy. Navy's offense will be far worse this year.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Load the box, put the onus on our senior CBs to do their job, let Harrison Smith play the single high safety role and roam the field. I'm very scared of Air Force but not of Navy. Navy's offense will be far worse this year.

Agreed. I think we're more likely to lose this game than any other on our schedule.
 

Anchorman

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Load the box, put the onus on our senior CBs to do their job, let Harrison Smith play the single high safety role and roam the field. I'm very scared of Air Force but not of Navy. Navy's offense will be far worse this year.

The only significant piece Navy lost was Dobbs, who, while tough, is replaceable, especially with Proctor. They still return the rest of their starting slots and fullback and most of their OLine. The offense is expected by most Navy fans to be better while the defense may drop from last season.


I have to disagree with the load the box/attack move. For one, the massive, game-splitting plays have traditionally come from just that, and then getting beat. Look at Teich's screen TD, Jones TD two years ago, or the pass interference from last year. The key is to stay in your assignment; those who attack or are overly aggressive get beat.


Now to focus on that veer...
 
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Whiskeyjack

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The only significant piece Navy lost was Dobbs, who, while tough, is replaceable, especially with Proctor. They still return the rest of their starting slots and fullback and most of their OLine. The offense is expected by most Navy fans to be better while the defense may drop from last season.

Dobbs is the best quarterback they've had since Staubach. He would have started at most FBS programs. I simply don't see Proctor filling his shoes.
 

Who'saWildManNow

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well....... this video just scared the sh^t outta me

I don't know.. part of me thinks OU got out to that 27-10 lead and took their foot off the gas. You cannot stop playing with the killer instinct against any team.. especially the service academies, those guys don't know quit.

I hope BK instills that instinct to dominate for four quarters and finish an opponent. Playing our ferocious freshman late in games can only help with that too.
 

IrishLax

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The only significant piece Navy lost was Dobbs, who, while tough, is replaceable, especially with Proctor. They still return the rest of their starting slots and fullback and most of their OLine. The offense is expected by most Navy fans to be better while the defense may drop from last season.


I have to disagree with the load the box/attack move. For one, the massive, game-splitting plays have traditionally come from just that, and then getting beat. Look at Teich's screen TD, Jones TD two years ago, or the pass interference from last year. The key is to stay in your assignment; those who attack or are overly aggressive get beat.


Now to focus on that veer...

That's like saying replacing Terrelle Pryor isn't a big deal for Ohio State. Yeah, they don't lose tons on offense but overall they only return 10 starters. You can't lose 12 starters and tell me Dobbs was the only meaningful piece they lost (unless you were just talking about offense, in which case I can see what you're saying).

Loading the box doesn't mean go crazy aggressive and blow assignments. I'm just saying you switch up to a single high safety (Harrison Smith) playing center field to flow to the play and let your star CBs cover solo (if they blow it that's on them). As far what the guys in the box do, I just hope we use whatever the hell that defensive front we lined up in for Army was. That seemed to work really well. I should go back and watch some film.
 

kmoose

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I've always thought that the best way to beat the triple option is by getting penetration from your interior D-Linemen.

A big part of the success of the triple option is to put extreme pressure on the defender who is responsible for outside contain. To do this, the QB has to get to the corner quickly, and force the defender to make a snap decision. The QB also wants to get to the corner quickly, to mitigate the pursuit from the inside. If your D tackles are getting into the backfield, that completely disrupts this timing. Even if the D tackles are not athletic enough to bring the QB down as he moves down the line, they can at minimum, force his path to the corner deeper into the backfield. This causes the QB to get to the edge late. The outside contain defender has that extra second or two to digest what is going on, and select the best course of action. It also gives the inside pursuit time to catch up.
 

GoldenDomer87

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I always thought this would be our "hiccup" game. While we did stuff Army's triple option, it's Army. Air Force, I think, is the most potent offensive academy. Until we stop it, I'm still not sure what to think. Let's hope Diaco has watched that Navy film the whole off-season to figure things out. That lose was on the coaches.
 

eNDzone

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Diaco took the Navy lose on his back. I'm sure he took it personally also.

Wouldn"t a monster in the middle like Nix shutdown most of the fullback rushes?
 

Whiskeyjack

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Wouldn"t a monster in the middle like Nix shutdown most of the fullback rushes?

I don't think so. All of the academies have multiple blocking schemes to set up the FB Dive. Ian Williams was a damned good NT, and Navy seriously abused him all game in 2010.

The scheme we used against Army seems safer. 4-3 front; plug the A-gaps with your DTs all day; DEs pinch the down blocks by the OT. This shuts down everything between the tackles and forces the play outside, at which point the LBs are flowing to the ball and reading blocks to determine their assignments.
 

BeauBenken

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I'm just relieved AF doesn't have Tim DeRuyter anymore. (Took me a while to find his name or where he was now.)

Tim DeRuyter
 
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