Recruiting and Roster Management: what Kelly's doing.

[Whiskeyjack]

I'll crawl out on a limb here and suggest that rather too much is made of Kelly's desire for flexibility in his recruits.

Looking at his last four recruiting classes, he didn't bring in a disproportionately large number of ATHs: 3/23, 2/23, 4/26, 2/25. The Skill, Big Skill, and Power designations are far too neat and simplistic to be useful for anything other than public consumption; the system actually used, involving detailed physical and mental profiles for each individual position, necessarily must be much more complex.

Kelly's not foolish enough to leave gaping holes in his depth chart, so he patches those holes as best he can with the personnel he has on hand. Thankfully, he's also very good at developing talent, so those transplants likely have a better than average chance of succeeding in their new positions.

But I firmly believe that there's a Plan A for each group of recruits, which involves the sort of idealistic roster planning we've been doing here. Sh!t happens, and Kelly has to adapt that plan, but that doesn't mean that he's bringing in a bunch of formless talents just to see how things shake out in camp.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I agree with this (especially the part about there being a "plan A" or a ideal position for each guy), but I'd add a couple things:

(1) I think "big skill" guys are just linebackers (maybe a TE every once in a while);

(2) "skill" guys aren't all interchangeable - a QB is a QB, for the most part (I know there are exceptions, i.e. Massa), but switching a guy between WR and CB, or RB and Slot, or various other combinations, should be seen as a viable way to rearrange the roster to maximize the talent and athleticism on the field at any given time; and

(3) "power" guys are linemen, and for the most part the stud "power" guys will profile for a specific position (that is probably true for the studs at all of these general designations, actually), but depth in one area could be shifted to backfill a shortage in another area (Hounshell, Heggie, Carrico, Springmann, etc.).

Hope this makes sense because I kind of rushed this post. If not I'll be back to fix it later.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Kelly defines "Big Skill" as a position which demands serious multitasking of very different activities from the player. Linebacker is "big skill" because they must both run-stop and pass-defend [or be ready to] on every play. These are considered by Coach as rather radically different "skills". Tight End is "big skill" because he must be ready to run-block, sometimes even pass block, and route-run & receive on any given play --- again, radically different skills. Fullback, if we employed one, is "big skill" because he has to run the ball, pass block, receive, and run block on any given play.

One might argue with the coach [probably not wise] that other guys do such multitasking too [ex. the RB does most of what an FB would do; but Kelly apparently sees the RB as emphasizing running skill and pass reception as an overwhelming offensive skill set, and is put in the backfield mainly to manifest that "skill". Sure he has to pick up the blitz, but that's not what they were looking at when they recruited him. For sure they weren't looking at his run-blocking].

So, the two lines are "power", the QB/RB/WRs/DBs are "skill", and the TE/LBs/FB are "big skill". That's 8-9-5 on the field for our base patterns.

....another way to visualize a difference between "big skill" and the other two categories is to see "big skill" as meaning the ability to perform at high level both at the physical point-of-attack and in open space.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

(2) "skill" guys aren't all interchangeable - a QB is a QB, for the most part (I know there are exceptions, i.e. Massa), but switching a guy between WR and CB, or RB and Slot, or various other combinations, should be seen as a viable way to rearrange the roster to maximize the talent and athleticism on the field at any given time;

Agreed. Seems like many of us put too much emphasis on the position a guy played in high school, or how the major services have labeled a recruit. Everyone pretty much starts over when they arrive in Division I.

(3) "power" guys are linemen, and for the most part the stud "power" guys will profile for a specific position (that is probably true for the studs at all of these general designations, actually), but depth in one area could be shifted to backfill a shortage in another area (Hounshell, Heggie, Carrico, Springmann, etc.).

Most of the position switches we've seen thus far involve shuffling 3 recruits around to cover holes on the depth chart (see Carrico, Farley, Jackson, and Collinsworth.) Occasionally you'll move a stud like Riddick, whose drop down the depth chart at RB coincided with a need for playmakers at Z WR, but those are pretty rare. On the whole, I think it's fair to say that your 4 and 5 recruits aren't likely to see much movement, whereas the 3 depth guys get moved around as necessary.

 

[eNDzone]

What will be the "hidden strength" of all we've talked about is the "dreaded" RKG factor. Football, like life, really can't be controlled nor, therefore, robotically planned for. Kelly's ace-in-the-hole is the RKG in all his dimensions. Paper descriptions are static; RKG players are not. Great athletes in combination with great coaches, applying great attitudes towards their development as part of a Team larger than themselves, WILL ADJUST to meet the circumstances.

We have a coach who sees life as it is: unpredictable and sometimes unfair. He knows that the path to success is being nimble. His schemes are nimble. His players and coaches are nimble. His mind is nimble. He will not let "fixed" concepts get in his way. Once we have the players who have the requisite body plans and attitudes on campus, the Kelly flexibility will move to do the rest. That's why I am so happy with what we have now "philosophically". National Championships?? Who knows?? I just love that the RKG we have as coach is giving it the best shot that he can.

This post brings back the memory of Kelly placing the picture in the Gug. One of the first things he did as a coach was to display prominently a painting of nameless and almost faceless players making their way to the field as a team. This does take the RKG concept further than I first understood it. Players on a team and recruits coming in willing to play the position the coaches deem necessary to win the NC. If it means putting on 40 lbs. to put you where you are most useful-so be it. A nameless ,faceless team on the field winning the National Championship. Yet there faces and names will forever be etched in our minds and hearts.
If we were rating threads I'd give this one a 5*

 

[irishog77]

In all honesty, I think perhaps a bit too much is placed on Kelly's categories of skill, big skill, and power. Yeas, I think that's the blueprint he follows, but look at Baratti and Perkins this year. Both have the ability and frames to fall (or eventually fall) into the skill and big skill positions (S, RB, QB, LB). This isn't a criticism of BK nor his tactics (I'm glad both of these guys are Irish), just again, an example of him being able to change or adapt his template for players on his team.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Well, you just did exactly what Kelly doesn't want us to do: get too hooked into labels. The designators are more psychological than restrictive physical determinants. Of course Kelly will sign Ishaq. Of course he will sign Danny Spond. If there's "more" there, of course he will delight in there being more. Kelly would sign Tebow too, even if he wasn't 100% sure that he'd be a QB rather than an LB, RB, TE, S ...etc.

Kelly DOESN'T have a blueprint in any hard fixed sense; that's what we've been trying to say here I believe. Instead he has intelligent thought-through guidelines [lots of details and considerations, yes, but nothing absolutely fixed]. Think of him entering the recruiting and coaching space with uncounted hours of thought and experience, and no self-imposed handcuffs. Leonardo knows what he's going to paint; he doesn't have all the square inches of the canvas fixed in his mind.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Today was the second time I heard that recruiting an elite ILB is a priority for this cycle. Tom Lemming and now Eric Hansen are suggesting this. Are we even recruiting an elite MLB? From my knowledge we are not. What's the story on this and why does it keep coming up?

 

[CanadalovesND]

Today was the second time I heard that recruiting an elite ILB is a priority for this cycle. Tom Lemming and now Eric Hansen are suggesting this. Are we even recruiting an elite MLB? From my knowledge we are not. What's the story on this and why does it keep coming up?

We are recruiting Noah Spence, and we made his final seven. Now, I know that he is listed as a DE, but he's such a gifted athlete that he can play MLB.

 

[irishog77]

Maybe Brian Nance from Texas? I haven't checked or heard about anything on him lately though. I think Kelly and crew are relatively high on Moore, Fox, Grace, and Rabassa, so I don't think we're in dire straights here. I'd be up for grabbing an ILB this cycle-- assuming it's a total bad @ss. But I think most of the type guys at that position (according to the sevices, but who really knows how they project) are already committed elsewhere.

 

[GUknights75]

Scout has Nick Baratti ranked as the 11th MLB. I think an Elite MLB can be held off until next cycle. Like irishog said Moore, Fox, Grace, and Rabasa all can step in at MLB and if needed, Shembo or Spond have the body to play inside

 

[Old Man Mike]

Unless we're planning on stealing an already "verbal commitment" from someone else, there aren't any out there to be considered "elite". If you go to OLB listings with the idea that maybe the staff sees a guy growing into ILB, then we've offered Brian Nance and Ken Ekanem. Nance is 6'3" and 210 [sounds OLB], while Ekanem is 6'3" and 226, possibly growing "inside"?

I'd throw out the guess that Lemming and Hansen might not know exactly what they're hearing about here. Perhaps the 2013 cycle??

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'd throw out the guess that Lemming and Hansen might not know exactly what they're hearing about here. Perhaps the 2013 cycle??

Bingo. I think they're just assuming that we "need" an elite talent to replace Te'o, who could very well be gone after this season. Such simplistic analysis ignores the facts that (1) Te'o is irreplaceable; and (2) our roster is full of LBs who could easily move inside.

 

[Ironman8]

Bingo. I think they're just assuming that we "need" an elite talent to replace Te'o, who could very well be gone after this season. Such simplistic analysis ignores the facts that (1) Te'o is irreplaceable; and (2) our roster is full of LBs who could easily move inside.

Primarily I'd look to Moore after Manti's gone. BK said he is only a Mike, and has 4 years of eligibility left.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Primarily I'd look to Moore after Manti's gone. BK said he is only a Mike, and has 4 years of eligibility left.

No doubt. The question is who backs up Moore in 2012 and beyond? If Te'o bolts for the draft, does McDonald get offered a 5th year? His history of injury doesn't inspire confidence. Perhaps Rabasa and/or Baratti are destined for the Mike.

 

[NankerPhelge]

Don't think Te'o will go. If getting to the NFL was his main priority, he could just as easily have gone to USC. He came to ND for a reason that, I'll wager, goes deeper than just using it as a springboard to the pros. Just my firmly held opinion.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Don't think Te'o will go. If getting to the NFL was his main priority, he could just as easily have gone to USC. He came to ND for a reason that, I'll wager, goes deeper than just using it as a springboard to the pros. Just my firmly held opinion.

From the SB Tribune: Moore in the middle of backup battles

Kelly once considered throwing Moore into that fray, but never followed through. Instead Moore is battling oft-injured senior Anthony McDonald for the No. 2 spot in the middle. Moore knows the No. 1 spot could open up as soon as next season if Te’o - currently projected as a first-round draft pick in the spring of 2012 - does not return for his senior season.

And Te’o has acknowledged there will be a decision to be made after the 2011 season ends.

“I’m getting ready for it now,” Moore said of the day Te’o steps out of the lineup. “You never know when it’s going to be your opportunity.’’

I actually agree with you, Nanker; though it's usually bad policy to bet on a 21-year-old kid turning down ~$15 million.

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

I like one of the Freshman, Rabasa/Grace to fill in nicely.

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

Scholarship Situation at the start of Fall Camp

It has been busy summer and awhile since I have posted on the site, but it feels good to be back and I thought this was an appropriate thread to add my two cents. There was also a return of the "Numbers Game" column by One Foot Down breaking down where we stand with depth and recruiting going forward. As was already posted we are at the 85 limit.

2011 TEAM
Freshman 24
Sophomores 19
Juniors 15
Seniors 21
5th Years 6

To read more on the article:
Brian Kelly Plays the Numbers 58+14+14=86 - One Foot Down
Now going forward barring career threatening injuries
(Sidenote: here is to hoping Roberson can come back strong next year. With red shirting last year and receiving a medical red shirt this year if requested, he STILL has 4 years of eligibilty remaining. If productive and asked to stay, his original classmate Chris Badger would have someone as old as him to hang out with on the 2015 team. You have to love 25 year old seniors.)
or transfers, next year the numbers are:

2012 TEAM
Freshman ??
Sophomores 24
Juniors 19
Seniors 15
5th Years ??
24+19+15=58...85-58=27 (I think somewhere here I read Whiskey thought it was 26. Maybe I am just throwing Badger in a different spot, but I believe he belongs with his "new" freshman class.)

So between 5th year players and 2012 recruits we have room for 27. We have 14 possible 5th year guys again as we already know (sorry for redundancy, I was MIA for two months).
Crist, Cave, Golic Jr, Clelland, Goodman, Walker, KLM, Cwynar, H Williams, Newman, Posluszny, McDonald, Slaughter, and McCarthy.

They fall under 3 categories:
Guys we are holding a spot for - Cave, KLM, Cwynar, Slaughter
Guys determined during the season - Crist, Golic Jr, Goodman, H Williams, McCarthy
and Sorry Guys we are moving in another direction - Clelland, Walker, Newman, Posluszny, McDonald
(More Sidenotes: Say what you want about Crist guaranteed a spot, but if he gets injured again this year with another 6-8 month rehab ahead of him, the question might be does HE want to come back? Also KLM may elect to go in the draft if he has a great year, Golic Jr may need to come back if the staff is scared as hell with their other options and what if *knock on wood* something happens to Cave..., WR depth is almost as bad as RB so Goodman could play into a spot to hold, and McCarthy would have to show a lot this year after 3 dissapointing years but anything is possible...though unlikely)

It is a fluid situation, but I am near certain BK will only ask back 4-6 5th Year players leaving the 2012 recruiting class 21-23 spots depending on who wants to come.

Currently we have 13 verbally committed high school players and another commitment in Badger who, by all accounts, is still coming.

For the other 7-9 spots:
2 RB
1 OL
1-2 DE
1 OLB
2-3 WR + DB (4 if we miss on Spence/Odengibo)

The skill positions WR and DB are interchangable. For example: we already have 4 Safeties committed, and a verbal from Thompson would move someone like Prosise to the other side of the ball. Noah Spence also makes the predictions difficult, OLB or DE? I know the staff would take him, Jones, and Odengibo together, otherwise they will continue to load up on skill players.

This became longer than I thought and probably alot of repeat info...but what an exciting time of year. Great to read all the number crunching in this thread, you know I appreciate it as much as you Mike. Good job guys.

 

[beryirish]

Manti will stay for his senior year.....nuff said.

 

[irishog77]

Scholarship Situation at the start of Fall Camp

It has been busy summer and awhile since I have posted on the site, but it feels good to be back and I thought this was an appropriate thread to add my two cents. There was also a return of the "Numbers Game" column by One Foot Down breaking down where we stand with depth and recruiting going forward. As was already posted we are at the 85 limit.

2011 TEAM
Freshman 24
Sophomores 19
Juniors 15
Seniors 21
5th Years 6

To read more on the article:
Brian Kelly Plays the Numbers 58+14+14=86 - One Foot Down
Now going forward barring career threatening injuries
(Sidenote: here is to hoping Roberson can come back strong next year. With red shirting last year and receiving a medical red shirt this year if requested, he STILL has 4 years of eligibilty remaining. If productive and asked to stay, his original classmate Chris Badger would have someone as old as him to hang out with on the 2015 team. You have to love 25 year old seniors.)
or transfers, next year the numbers are:

2012 TEAM
Freshman ??
Sophomores 24
Juniors 19
Seniors 15
5th Years ??
24+19+15=58...85-58=27 (I think somewhere here I read Whiskey thought it was 26. Maybe I am just throwing Badger in a different spot, but I believe he belongs with his "new" freshman class.)

So between 5th year players and 2012 recruits we have room for 27. We have 14 possible 5th year guys again as we already know (sorry for redundancy, I was MIA for two months).
Crist, Cave, Golic Jr, Clelland, Goodman, Walker, KLM, Cwynar, H Williams, Newman, Posluszny, McDonald, Slaughter, and McCarthy.

They fall under 3 categories:
Guys we are holding a spot for - Cave, KLM, Cwynar, Slaughter
Guys determined during the season - Crist, Golic Jr, Goodman, H Williams, McCarthy
and Sorry Guys we are moving in another direction - Clelland, Walker, Newman, Posluszny, McDonald
(More Sidenotes: Say what you want about Crist guaranteed a spot, but if he gets injured again this year with another 6-8 month rehab ahead of him, the question might be does HE want to come back? Also KLM may elect to go in the draft if he has a great year, Golic Jr may need to come back if the staff is scared as hell with their other options and what if *knock on wood* something happens to Cave..., WR depth is almost as bad as RB so Goodman could play into a spot to hold, and McCarthy would have to show a lot this year after 3 dissapointing years but anything is possible...though unlikely)

It is a fluid situation, but I am near certain BK will only ask back 4-6 5th Year players leaving the 2012 recruiting class 21-23 spots depending on who wants to come.

Currently we have 13 verbally committed high school players and another commitment in Badger who, by all accounts, is still coming.

For the other 7-9 spots:
2 RB
1 OL
1-2 DE
1 OLB
2-3 WR + DB (4 if we miss on Spence/Odengibo)

The skill positions WR and DB are interchangable. For example: we already have 4 Safeties committed, and a verbal from Thompson would move someone like Prosise to the other side of the ball. Noah Spence also makes the predictions difficult, OLB or DE? I know the staff would take him, Jones, and Odengibo together, otherwise they will continue to load up on skill players.

This became longer than I thought and probably alot of repeat info...but what an exciting time of year. Great to read all the number crunching in this thread, you know I appreciate it as much as you Mike. Good job guys.

Thanks for posting- good info! I was just thinking we needed an update on the numbers situation!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

24+19+15=58...85-58=27 (I think somewhere here I read Whiskey thought it was 26. Maybe I am just throwing Badger in a different spot, but I believe he belongs with his "new" freshman class.)

You're right that I did calculate the magic number to be 26 earlier, but I was using an out-of-date version of whiskey's Excel file. The updated file, which looks correct to me, says 27 is the new number, so let's go with that.

They fall under 3 categories:
Guys we are holding a spot for - Cave, KLM, Cwynar, Slaughter
Guys determined during the season - Crist, Golic Jr, Goodman, H Williams, McCarthy
and Sorry Guys we are moving in another direction - Clelland, Walker, Newman, Posluszny, McDonald

Agreed.

(More Sidenotes: Say what you want about Crist guaranteed a spot, but if he gets injured again this year with another 6-8 month rehab ahead of him, the question might be does HE want to come back? Also KLM may elect to go in the draft if he has a great year, Golic Jr may need to come back if the staff is scared as hell with their other options and what if *knock on wood* something happens to Cave..., WR depth is almost as bad as RB so Goodman could play into a spot to hold, and McCarthy would have to show a lot this year after 3 dissapointing years but anything is possible...though unlikely)

1. Crist will either be the most important 5Y, or not coming back at all.
2. I'm not worried about KLM bolting early for the draft unless he has a monster 2011 season; he's been flying under the radar lately.
3. Golic, Jr. is an unlikely 5Y, imo, simply because he's a Weis recruit who hasn't really proven anything. Kelly recently commented that Golic, Jr. is just now getting to a point physically where they'd consider playing him. I bet one of Kelly's young recruits distinguishes himself enough at C to win the #2, thereby denying Golic a 5Y.
4. Unless McCarthy blows up in 2011, I can't see him getting asked back.

For the other 7-9 spots:
2 RB
1 OL
1-2 DE
1 OLB
2-3 WR + DB (4 if we miss on Spence/Odengibo)

Mostly agreed. I think we'll take 2 OL, as long as they're both blue chips. 1 OL would leave us with 13 OL total in 2012, which is dangerously low. 14 is safer.

We need 1 WDE and 1 Cat OLB. I'm hoping for Jones/ Spence and Odenigbo.

The skill positions WR and DB are interchangable. For example: we already have 4 Safeties committed, and a verbal from Thompson would move someone like Prosise to the other side of the ball. Noah Spence also makes the predictions difficult, OLB or DE? I know the staff would take him, Jones, and Odengibo together, otherwise they will continue to load up on skill players.

There's limited flexibility there. I doubt you'll see any 4-5 recruits getting moved. 3 "depth" guys like Prosise could easily be moved though.

Spence has allegedly told the staff he doesn't want to play OLB, which is puzzling to me. It's one of the most important and flashy positions in Diaco's scheme. I hope there's some misunderstanding on his part.

This became longer than I thought and probably alot of repeat info...but what an exciting time of year. Great to read all the number crunching in this thread, you know I appreciate it as much as you Mike. Good job guys.

Good job to you, sir. That was a great "I'm back" post.

 

[irishog77]

I may get pounded for this, but the more I think about it, the more I think Perkins could be the 2nd RB. We could take one of the Marshalls or Mahone and honestly still have pretty good depth next year-- Wood, a healthy, year-and-a-half-removed from injury with fresh legs Roberson (who was a 4 star back in his own right), Cam and/or Atkinson (with at least one of them probably having some legit PT on their resume), and whichever consensus 4 star signs this cycle...and 4 star Perkins as well. Besides, Perkins doesn't really fit into the size parameter Kelly and Diaco want for their OLB's.

I honestly don't see the need for THREE OLB's this year. Of course I'm assuming the above on the basis that Ifeadi or another stud OLB will end up Irish. But penciling in Perkins as a RB, in my opinion, also frees up one more schollie- presumably for a Shaq or Spence, or another blue chip OL.

I don't know, it kind of seems like having Perkins on board (particularly as an "athlete") is kind of like a bird in hand...

 

[NDdomer2]

I don't know, it kind of seems like having Perkins on board (particularly as an "athlete") is kind of like a bird in hand...

I was just telling my cousin this today.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I may get pounded for this, but the more I think about it, the more I think Perkins could be the 2nd RB. We could take one of the Marshalls or Mahone and honestly still have pretty good depth next year-- Wood, a healthy, year-and-a-half-removed from injury with fresh legs Roberson (who was a 4 star back in his own right), Cam and/or Atkinson (with at least one of them probably having some legit PT on their resume), and whichever consensus 4 star signs this cycle...and 4 star Perkins as well. Besides, Perkins doesn't really fit into the size parameter Kelly and Diaco want for their OLB's.

Perkins could definitely play some RB for us, but I don't think that's Plan A. Our dire need for RBs was readily apparent when he committed, yet he was still recruited for OLB; that's a strong statement about his defensive potential.

You're also correct that he falls a little short of Kelly's ideal height for an OLB, but so does Prince Shembo, and he'll probably be our starting Dog. Shembo, Rabasa, and Perkins are all similar in that they can probably play any of the LB positions; that kind of flexibility is invaluable.

I honestly don't see the need for THREE OLB's this year. Of course I'm assuming the above on the basis that Ifeadi or another stud OLB will end up Irish. But penciling in Perkins as a RB, in my opinion, also frees up one more schollie- presumably for a Shaq or Spence, or another blue chip OL.

Cat OLB is arguably the single most important position in Diaco's system, and it's a definite area of need. In 2012, we'll only have Ishaq and Niklas (hopefully). Okwara is a project and Perkins is a utility guy, so a blue chip OLB like Odenigbo, Spence, or Davis would be very helpful.

I don't know, it kind of seems like having Perkins on board (particularly as an "athlete") is kind of like a bird in hand...

4 ATHs provide great flexibility, but there's always a Plan A. Perkins is taller than Kelly prefers at RB; he (and most of us) would much prefer two top RB recruits so Perkins can stay on defense and clobber people.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Perkins is, in my early assessment of him, a guy with an unusual athletic "talent" --- he's a "man". He's 5* will power determined, and a real roughneck. He's a punisher and aggressive-plus. He's the type of player that I almost don't care WHAT his size is, but he has defense written all over him. He's the big impact surprise for this class in my opinion.

Re: RBs. If Roberson is OK for next year, Wood +McDaniel +Roberson +Mahone = pretty darn good by me. GAIII can go back to WR and wait as an emergency reincarnation if another injury occurs. Kelly can train Perkins up a little [and he's emphasizing RB this year in HS], but, boy, I sense a defensive roaring blaster there.

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

I think we'll take 2 OL, as long as they're both blue chips. 1 OL would leave us with 13 OL total in 2012, which is dangerously low. 14 is safer.

I know he is a project, but did you include Heggie for this number? If I am not mistaken if we just bring back Cave (I agree with you on Golic Jr chances on a 5th year but he really is one "chop" from a Navy player from being the guy this year) then we will have 14 next year:

5th: Cave
Sr: Z Martin, Watt
Jr: Lombard, Nichols, Heggie
So: Hegarty, Hanratty, N Martin, Carrico, Prestwood
Fr: Harrell, Decker, ???

I agree we could use two more, I was under that impression too until Prestwood came in. Now I really think the scholarship crunch will make them chase one hard, but if two elites want to come then probably my hope of getting Spence, Jones, and Odenigbo goes out the window. Another positive is Martin and Watt can still be around for 3 more years.

Also thanks for the kind words. Go Irish!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I know he is a project, but did you include Heggie for this number? If I am not mistaken if we just bring back Cave (I agree with you on Golic Jr chances on a 5th year but he really is one "chop" from a Navy player from being the guy this year) then we will have 14 next year:

5th: Cave
Sr: Z Martin, Watt
Jr: Lombard, Nichols, Heggie
So: Hegarty, Hanratty, N Martin, Carrico, Prestwood
Fr: Harrell, Decker, ???

I agree we could use two more, I was under that impression too until Prestwood came in. Now I really think the scholarship crunch will make them chase one hard, but if two elites want to come then probably my hope of getting Spence, Jones, and Odenigbo goes out the window. Another positive is Martin and Watt can still be around for 3 more years.

Also thanks for the kind words. Go Irish!

Your counting skills are superior to mine. 1 more OL indeed leaves us with 14 in 2012, which I'm comfortable with. In that case, we probably only take a 2nd if it's a package deal (Banner & Garnett) or a "best player available" scenario.

Looks like we're agreed on all accounts.