The 85 Scholarship Limit

IrishLax

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Why does it exist? Why not let schools give scholarships to whomever they darn well please? I mean seriously... why aren't schools allowed to give as many free rides as they want (like they could for merit scholarships or financial aid)?

Just had a brief discussion with someone who claimed this was the most unfair rule in NCAA sports by far.
 

military_irish

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Simple answer, maybe, is that the "richer" schools could offer more scholarships. Which in turn would mean a dynasty for ND, (biased point of view).

Also some schools may spend more scholarships on football which is the biggest college sport in most schools, so that would prevent other sports from receiving proper benefits. Probably has to do with eqaulity ya know?
 

BeauBenken

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Seriously, it would probably ONLY be the BCS conferences and no one else.
 

IrishLax

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Seriously, it would probably ONLY be the BCS conferences and no one else.

How? Schools still wouldn't "waste" scholarships and kids who thought they would be buried on a depth chart would go elsewhere. Even with that being said... it's not like top recruits really go to non-BCS schools today even with the limit. Even lower tier BCS schools struggle to get anything but 2*s and some 3*s.


So I don't understand what you're getting at there.
 

anarin

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because those 3's that the lower tier schools DO get would choose to go to the bigger school for the shot at playing there. Bigger schools wouldnt have to pass on them because of the cap...
 

IrishLax

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But then those lower schools would take more 2* and 0* players... meaning more overall kids would get schollies... and everyone wins.
 

ACamp1900

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Why does it exist? Why not let schools give scholarships to whomever they darn well please? I mean seriously... why aren't schools allowed to give as many free rides as they want (like they could for merit scholarships or financial aid)?

Just had a brief discussion with someone who claimed this was the most unfair rule in NCAA sports by far.

Do a little research on Oklahoma in the 50's... you'll understand why the rule came into effect.
 

BeauBenken

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Ok, so you know those teams that are forced to take just dang near anybody because there's no longer a cap and all the talented guys go elsewhere? They never win again. Attendance goes down. Profit turns to dramatic loss and those schools drop the program.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Lax brings up a good point. Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment...

Most programs, even elites like Alabama, don't turn a profit. Carrying 100-150 players exacerbates that problem.

More players on a roster lowers the chance of seeing the field for any individual player, and decreases the level of individualized attention available.

To take Riddickulous' example, let's say Alabama has 599 players, and a 3 :s: is considering being the 300th. What are his chances of ever seeing the field? How much time is Saban's staff going to be able to dedicate to his development?

I'm sure the cap is justifiable and came about to prevent some serious abuses, but there are probably several factors that would limit the abuses its meant to prevent naturally, without such a draconian regulation.
 

BeauBenken

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It also becomes more obvious that when you take in so many players that they are just athletes and not student athletes.
 

ACamp1900

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The rule was created to combat OU (and others but mainly OU) dominating recruiting...

but I would say it has been upheld all these years so the SEC won't oversig-... wait... what am I talking about again?
 

IrishLax

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It also becomes more obvious that when you take in so many players that they are just athletes and not student athletes.

How? If anything, guys 85-120 would be there more for the school than anything else because they know they aren't going pro.

I just think it's quite weird you can give anyone who is NOT an athlete as much aid as you want... but if you play a sport on X amount of students can get scholarships.
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

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to hell with that Lax....have you ever had the dozen White Castle sliders? Not a bad midday delight if you ask me. Certainly not as good as In-n-Out or Fuddruckers, but a nice meal for the common man.
 

BGIF

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Why does it exist? Why not let schools give scholarships to whomever they darn well please? I mean seriously... why aren't schools allowed to give as many free rides as they want (like they could for merit scholarships or financial aid)?

Just had a brief discussion with someone who claimed this was the most unfair rule in NCAA sports by far.

Unfair to whom? The other individual probably has no knowledge of the sport, it's evolution, nor of who the NCAA really is. It exists like most of NCAA regulations because of abuse and controversy. I wrote an article on the 85/25 rules about 15 years ago. It's in the basement on a dead computer so this is off the top of my head.

Going back 110 years or so football was based on rugby. Differerent teams had different rules, field sizes, ball sizes, team sizes, etc. Rules were established to provide uniformity (including rules on uniforms).

Somewhere along the way they got around to 11 a side. Photos of the early 1900 teams, include about a dozen or so athletes. Over the years the number of athletes in team photos grew then exploded in the 70's, and then got smaller because the rules changed.

Before WWII Football was generally one platoon football, 60 minute men. Your were a starter both ways.

The original Ironmen (no, not the wimps from Don Bosco, they were named for the Iron Mine Workers of North Jersey) got that name because the stay on the field when Iron was the measure of toughness. Legendary heros like George Gipp returning kicks, throwing passes, running the ball, catching passes, kicking field goals, punting, oh yeah intercepting passes as an All-American Safety. Those were the days when the Heisman winner did it all (ask Old Man Mike). Essentially 11 men with limited substitutions. Substitutions varied through the years. ND's 1924 Championship Team had about 25-30 players. The 1943 Championship Team had about 50 players but that was probably Varsity and J.V.

At the end of WWII, say the 1945 season, (and the Leahy Glory Years), College Football played Two Platoon Football (Offense and Defense). Division 1 was called Major College Football. Squads got bigger. Check those team photos 50+ athletes. In two platoon a guy could be 2nd or 3rd string on Offense but be a starter on Defense or vice versa.

By '52 Major College Football reverted to One Platoon ball amid complaints that a few teams like ND had amassed to much talent and it wasn't fair (ND had 4 undefeated season during that period.) One Platoon football would last through the 1963 season. Check ND seasonal records and you'll see this was basically the Brennan/Kuharich years, a dismal time for ND football although Hornung excelled at running, passing, kicking off, returning kicks, kicking FGs and playing as a solid DB. (Visualize Quinn, Clausen, or Crist playing 30 minutes of Defense or those 330 pound tackles going both ways.)

If you look back through the AP Top 10, 20, and 25 (it also varied over the years) you'll find that Ivy League teams like Penn were still a National Power in the mid 50's but started to fade as teams grew in size.

1964 saw Ara Parshegian turn a 2-7 team into a 9-1 team that lost a National Championship on a phantom call in the 90 seconds of the season at the L.A. Coliseum. Everybody sings Ara's praises compared to Kuharich but few fans today realized Ara had the benefit of taking the talent Kuharich and Devore recruited and playing them at 22 positions (with substitutions) where the year before the best 11 went both ways. That was one fo the reasons Ara switched so many players positions. The players didn't have to play 60 minutes. He could play to their strength's not their average offensive and defensive abilites.

Now there were no limits on the teams or squad, unlimited substititions and unlimited scholarships. Coaches like Bear Bryant signed big squads. Their 3rd team would have been the 1st team at Kentucky or Vanderbilt. Bryant signed them just to keep them OFF the other teams roster. Bryant only had one 1,000 yard rusher Johnny Musso during his career at Bama and no Heisman winner. He overwhelmed teams with numbers. In the 4th quarter Bama fans used to hold up 4 fingers, stating "The 4th Quarter belongs to us." Their team that took the field in the 4th quarter had clean uniforms. Fresh legs while the 'Dores regulars that had already played 3 quarters stayed on the field - dragging. It was the principal reason Bryant had only the one 1,000 yard rusher and no Heisman. Few players played an entire game but he sent the equivalent of North Koreas Human Wave Attacks at opponents. A War of Attrition and he had the depth AND talent.

Finally Johnny Majors at Pittsburgh signed something like 125 freshman in one class. Hey it's the Cold War. The Arms Race. Mutual Assured Destruction. While the arms race was playing havoc with nation's GDP, unlimited scholarships were devouring athletic department budgets. The "Superpowers" could foot the bill. The others were falling by the wayside. Some years earlier the Ivy League schools had said enough and banned athletic scholarships.

That winter at the NCAA football meetings a host of NCAA member school president's said, "Enough!" and voted a cap on scholarships.

By 1973 there was a liimit of 105 scholarships (and I believe the 25 in a class rule). Check the photo of the 1973 ND National Championship team and you'll see about 100 athletes. A far cry from the days when Rockne and Dorias suited up.

Joe Montana was one of something like 5 QBs in his recruiting class. He was 7th on the depth chart. Compare that with the QB depth Davie, Willingham, and Weis had.

For the 1978 season scholarships were restricted to 95. The end of the Devine Era, the Faust Era (numbers AND talent don't counter mediocre coaching), and the Golden Years of the Holtz Era.

Major College (Division 1) scholarships continued to be reduce in 1992 to 92, then in 1993 to 88 then the current 85 in 1994.

The departure of Vinny Cerrato after 1990 reduced the quality of Holtz classes after the his last guys graduated after the '93 season (It wasn't a BC Curse). In addition to the loss of Cerrato's keen eye for talent and golden tongue to sway recruits to ND, Holtz had 10 less scholarships in 1994 then he did in 1986.

The margin of error got smaller in projecting the growth and development of talent of 17 year old kids who would grow into college football players. This is why Saban, Spurrier, Chizak, and the rest of the SEC coaches were complaining about having to actually meet the 25 man class rule for real. (BTW, Alabama just lost their 6th player to "transfer" yesterday. Saban's know's how to make a roster fit the numbers - speaking of "fair".)

Now for ND throw in ND Admissions, ND's Classroom Competition, AND ND's Residential Life, as well as routine injuries and think about the disadvantage Davie, Willingham, Weis, AND Kelly have (had) the next time any of you want to compare Rockne, Leahy, Parshegian, and Devine to the recent downtimes. No, Davie, Willingham, and Weis, aren't the caliber of coach as those other four but they all were coaching the same number of players. I've rarely heard any fan mention that in when bashing Winning Percentages.


Now each time the rules changed, the push the envelope guys like Bryant circumvented them by putting football players on track, baseball, and tennis scholarships. The rules may appear silly but their made by the schools, the members of the NCAA.

The schoalrship rules evolved from financial needs (too much red ink), abuse, and fairness, aka, parity think Navy v ND recently or Toledo v Michigan, and a lot of other upsets that occur more frequently now with only 85 scholarships. Even the 1AA schools like Applachian St with only 63 scholarships are closer in numbers today then they were with unlimited scholarships.

Think of how many more talented players today will spurn sitting on the bench in the Pac 10 or SEC to start at San Deigo St, Fresno St, etc.

Also realize that the push the envelope guys took the War of Attrition to the War of Facilities. When the scholarships were limited the programs with deep pockets put in world class weight rooms, skyboxes, jumbotrons, and the like. Maybe someday the NCAA member will vote you can't have more than one TV in a athletic faciliity to reduce cost or limit the size to 24 inch screens. Silly? Does it effect the game? Yes, it does like the private jets used for recruiting visits used to do and the extravagant wine and dining.

The rules, silly or not (think of the coach the intentionally had his players go offsides on kickoffs) all came about by somebody looking for an unfair advantage and enough others saying, No.
 

dshans

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Yoiks, Zounds and Holy Effing Shoit, Master/Mister/Sir BGIF Biggins. BRAVO!

I was thinking of making a few simplistic comments about "leveling the playing field" and certain Ivy League schools (with reserves/endowments much larger than ND's or Texas') that could, should they so choose, alter the face collegiate athletics dramatlcally.

Harvard, Yale and Penn could once again sit atop the pinnacle of college football were they to loosen the purse strings and "relax" admission standards to allow as many scholarships it might take to field a National Championship football team.

Unlimited scholarships would most certainly create a closed market rather than a free market "economy" in the college game.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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The original Ironmen (no, not the wimps from Don Bosco, they were named for the Iron Mine Workers of North Jersey) got that name because the stay on the field when Iron was the measure of toughness. Legendary heros like George Gipp returning kicks, throwing passes, running the ball, catching passes, kicking field goals, punting, oh yeah intercepting passes as an All-American Safety. Those were the days when the Heisman winner did it all (ask Old Man Mike). Essentially 11 men with limited substitutions. Substitutions varied through the years. ND's 1924 Championship Team had about 25-30 players. The 1943 Championship Team had about 50 players but that was probably Varsity and J.V.

Great post, but the flags must fly; fifteen yards for an illegal crack(back) on OMM!

Second, it's cool that you mentioned Toledo vs. Michigan, but this fall think UofToledo over tOSU!

And finally, you got the whole article out without mentioning the baby boom. Interesting how the two eras of two platoon, or expanded roster football seemed to coincide with, the return of troops from WWII and later, the baby boom. I wonder how today's population compairs, and how that affects the rule's implementation.
 

IrishLax

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Unfair to whom? The other individual probably has no knowledge of the sport, it's evolution, nor of who the NCAA really is. It exists like most of NCAA regulations because of abuse and controversy. I wrote an article on the 85/25 rules about 15 years ago. It's in the basement on a dead computer so this is off the top of my head.

Going back 110 years or so football was based on rugby. Differerent teams had different rules, field sizes, ball sizes, team sizes, etc. Rules were established to provide uniformity (including rules on uniforms).

Somewhere along the way they got around to 11 a side. Photos of the early 1900 teams, include about a dozen or so athletes. Over the years the number of athletes in team photos grew then exploded in the 70's, and then got smaller because the rules changed.

Before WWII Football was generally one platoon football, 60 minute men. Your were a starter both ways.

The original Ironmen (no, not the wimps from Don Bosco, they were named for the Iron Mine Workers of North Jersey) got that name because the stay on the field when Iron was the measure of toughness. Legendary heros like George Gipp returning kicks, throwing passes, running the ball, catching passes, kicking field goals, punting, oh yeah intercepting passes as an All-American Safety. Those were the days when the Heisman winner did it all (ask Old Man Mike). Essentially 11 men with limited substitutions. Substitutions varied through the years. ND's 1924 Championship Team had about 25-30 players. The 1943 Championship Team had about 50 players but that was probably Varsity and J.V.

At the end of WWII, say the 1945 season, (and the Leahy Glory Years), College Football played Two Platoon Football (Offense and Defense). Division 1 was called Major College Football. Squads got bigger. Check those team photos 50+ athletes. In two platoon a guy could be 2nd or 3rd string on Offense but be a starter on Defense or vice versa.

By '52 Major College Football reverted to One Platoon ball amid complaints that a few teams like ND had amassed to much talent and it wasn't fair (ND had 4 undefeated season during that period.) One Platoon football would last through the 1963 season. Check ND seasonal records and you'll see this was basically the Brennan/Kuharich years, a dismal time for ND football although Hornung excelled at running, passing, kicking off, returning kicks, kicking FGs and playing as a solid DB. (Visualize Quinn, Clausen, or Crist playing 30 minutes of Defense or those 330 pound tackles going both ways.)

If you look back through the AP Top 10, 20, and 25 (it also varied over the years) you'll find that Ivy League teams like Penn were still a National Power in the mid 50's but started to fade as teams grew in size.

1964 saw Ara Parshegian turn a 2-7 team into a 9-1 team that lost a National Championship on a phantom call in the 90 seconds of the season at the L.A. Coliseum. Everybody sings Ara's praises compared to Kuharich but few fans today realized Ara had the benefit of taking the talent Kuharich and Devore recruited and playing them at 22 positions (with substitutions) where the year before the best 11 went both ways. That was one fo the reasons Ara switched so many players positions. The players didn't have to play 60 minutes. He could play to their strength's not their average offensive and defensive abilites.

Now there were no limits on the teams or squad, unlimited substititions and unlimited scholarships. Coaches like Bear Bryant signed big squads. Their 3rd team would have been the 1st team at Kentucky or Vanderbilt. Bryant signed them just to keep them OFF the other teams roster. Bryant only had one 1,000 yard rusher Johnny Musso during his career at Bama and no Heisman winner. He overwhelmed teams with numbers. In the 4th quarter Bama fans used to hold up 4 fingers, stating "The 4th Quarter belongs to us." Their team that took the field in the 4th quarter had clean uniforms. Fresh legs while the 'Dores regulars that had already played 3 quarters stayed on the field - dragging. It was the principal reason Bryant had only the one 1,000 yard rusher and no Heisman. Few players played an entire game but he sent the equivalent of North Koreas Human Wave Attacks at opponents. A War of Attrition and he had the depth AND talent.

Finally Johnny Majors at Pittsburgh signed something like 125 freshman in one class. Hey it's the Cold War. The Arms Race. Mutual Assured Destruction. While the arms race was playing havoc with nation's GDP, unlimited scholarships were devouring athletic department budgets. The "Superpowers" could foot the bill. The others were falling by the wayside. Some years earlier the Ivy League schools had said enough and banned athletic scholarships.

That winter at the NCAA football meetings a host of NCAA member school president's said, "Enough!" and voted a cap on scholarships.

By 1973 there was a liimit of 105 scholarships (and I believe the 25 in a class rule). Check the photo of the 1973 ND National Championship team and you'll see about 100 athletes. A far cry from the days when Rockne and Dorias suited up.

Joe Montana was one of something like 5 QBs in his recruiting class. He was 7th on the depth chart. Compare that with the QB depth Davie, Willingham, and Weis had.

For the 1978 season scholarships were restricted to 95. The end of the Devine Era, the Faust Era (numbers AND talent don't counter mediocre coaching), and the Golden Years of the Holtz Era.

Major College (Division 1) scholarships continued to be reduce in 1992 to 92, then in 1993 to 88 then the current 85 in 1994.

The departure of Vinny Cerrato after 1990 reduced the quality of Holtz classes after the his last guys graduated after the '93 season (It wasn't a BC Curse). In addition to the loss of Cerrato's keen eye for talent and golden tongue to sway recruits to ND, Holtz had 10 less scholarships in 1994 then he did in 1986.

The margin of error got smaller in projecting the growth and development of talent of 17 year old kids who would grow into college football players. This is why Saban, Spurrier, Chizak, and the rest of the SEC coaches were complaining about having to actually meet the 25 man class rule for real. (BTW, Alabama just lost their 6th player to "transfer" yesterday. Saban's know's how to make a roster fit the numbers - speaking of "fair".)

Now for ND throw in ND Admissions, ND's Classroom Competition, AND ND's Residential Life, as well as routine injuries and think about the disadvantage Davie, Willingham, Weis, AND Kelly have (had) the next time any of you want to compare Rockne, Leahy, Parshegian, and Devine to the recent downtimes. No, Davie, Willingham, and Weis, aren't the caliber of coach as those other four but they all were coaching the same number of players. I've rarely heard any fan mention that in when bashing Winning Percentages.


Now each time the rules changed, the push the envelope guys like Bryant circumvented them by putting football players on track, baseball, and tennis scholarships. The rules may appear silly but their made by the schools, the members of the NCAA.

The schoalrship rules evolved from financial needs (too much red ink), abuse, and fairness, aka, parity think Navy v ND recently or Toledo v Michigan, and a lot of other upsets that occur more frequently now with only 85 scholarships. Even the 1AA schools like Applachian St with only 63 scholarships are closer in numbers today then they were with unlimited scholarships.

Think of how many more talented players today will spurn sitting on the bench in the Pac 10 or SEC to start at San Deigo St, Fresno St, etc.

Also realize that the push the envelope guys took the War of Attrition to the War of Facilities. When the scholarships were limited the programs with deep pockets put in world class weight rooms, skyboxes, jumbotrons, and the like. Maybe someday the NCAA member will vote you can't have more than one TV in a athletic faciliity to reduce cost or limit the size to 24 inch screens. Silly? Does it effect the game? Yes, it does like the private jets used for recruiting visits used to do and the extravagant wine and dining.

The rules, silly or not (think of the coach the intentionally had his players go offsides on kickoffs) all came about by somebody looking for an unfair advantage and enough others saying, No.

Unfair to the kids who could have scholarships but don't because there is a cap.
 

hrc08

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'Cause schools wouldn't be paying its electric bills just so that they would hand out another scholly.

Honestly, Texas and 'Bama would go bankrupt before they allowed another school the upper hand in ANYTHING football related.
 

kmoose

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How? Schools still wouldn't "waste" scholarships and kids who thought they would be buried on a depth chart would go elsewhere. Even with that being said... it's not like top recruits really go to non-BCS schools today even with the limit. Even lower tier BCS schools struggle to get anything but 2*s and some 3*s.


So I don't understand what you're getting at there.

RICH schools (ND, Texas, tOSU, etc.) would absolutely "waste" a scholarship to have their 4 string tailback be a kid who was all-state, back home. They did it for years upon years. That's why there is a scholarship limit, to begin with.
 

Rocket89

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Didn't people used to say with a straight face that some of Leahy's 2nd string teams could legitimately compete with some NFL teams?
 

kmoose

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Didn't people used to say with a straight face that some of Leahy's 2nd string teams could legitimately compete with some NFL teams?

Old Man Mike could probably answer that one for us.

But I do know (well, I read) that Rockne used to START his 2nd team, and then put his 1st team in, halfway through the 1st Quarter, or at the start of the 2nd.
 

ACamp1900

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Didn't people used to say with a straight face that some of Leahy's 2nd string teams could legitimately compete with some NFL teams?

I do know ther is a famous quote from one of our All Americans for one of the 40's title tems who was asked which opponent gave him the stffest challenge that year and he answered straight up "Our 2nd team"
 

BGIF

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Unfair to the kids who could have scholarships but don't because there is a cap.

Jon Cheney, Temple Basketball Coach, and John Thompson, Georgetown Basketball Coach, both railed against scholarship limits as racist even though neither had a "good" record of graduating athletes. Cheney said it was important to give a kid a chance to get out of the gutter.

I know how things turned out for Patrick Ewing and a couple of others but I've yet to see an article about the success in life Cheney's or Thompson's kids had outside the NBA with an "education" based on useless courses cobbled together to maintain eligibility. How fair was Cheney using those kids to further his own coachin career?

How fair was Pat Dye allowing Brent Fullwood to play his senior year when Fullwood didn't attend classes his senior year? Even after a reporter questioned Dye in an interview, Dye continued to play him. By the way, an SEC Commissioner (ND Law Grad) told me a couple of years ago. The NCAA minimum GPA/Test Sliding Scale was set up in regard to Fullwood who had an ACT score of 7. Another "silly" rule that came about due to abuse.

How fair is giving an academically unqualified kid that doesn't meet basic high school proficiency a college scholarship at the expense of a kid who is academically proficient but couldn't hit a left handed jumper from the arc, or a high school running back with 5.0 40?

Check out The Drake Group for some interesting articles and stats by college professors who want to see college athletics be for students and not as ersatz minor leagues for the pros. Along those lines Ralph Nader is currently trying to get Congress to ban athletic scholarships and issue scholarships purely on the basis of need.


Back to history of the 85. The rule came about in part because of abuses at Pitt, Alabama, OU and others. But the impetus was more along the lines of hrc08's "'Cause schools wouldn't be paying its electric bills just so that they would hand out another scholly."



Section 1681. Sex

(a) Prohibition against discrimination; exceptions. No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance, except that:


That quote is from the opening of Title IX, Education Amendments of 1972.

Did you note the year? Check it with my last post on the history of the 85 rule. It wasn't coincidence. Women were getting cheated out of college sports $$$$. Women had to pay the same college tuition and activity fees that men students paid yet had far less opportunity to participate in activities (whether we will buy a ticket to see them or not). So Title IX gets implemented and programs like wrestling vanish because schools have to award one female scholarship for each male scholarship. Besides the $$$$ cost of unlimited football scholarships, all male sports scholarships now would have to be matched dollar for dollar with equivalent female athletic scholarships. You did raise the issue of being fair.

You know what else happened in 1972?

Father Ted admitted women to Notre Dame as full time students. Since then ND's enrollment I believe as almost doubled. But as women are about 52% of the student body that increase has not resulted in a growth of football scholarships. How unfair is that?

Father Ted was very active in Presidential Committees on Civil and Social Rights. After trying to broker a merger with St Mary's unsuccessfully, he just opened the doors of ND to women - the same year Title IX became law - the same year NCAA Football Scholarships went into effect.

Perhaps a Perfect Storm but more likely interrelated events. Cause and effect. One feeding the other.


Under Father Ted AND Monk, ND has become a more diverse campus. Some 12 to 15% of the student body fit the minority designation. Has that diluted the pool of potential football players in the student body? It has reduced the number of white males and I know a bunch of ND alumni that have lamented that their kid with a 3.8, 1400+ boards, and zillions of community service, honors, and awards weren't admitted in the past 15 years because the slot was filled by a diversity student. Fairness to one can result in unfair results for another.

With diversity ND has Mormon football players now but ND's had Baptists, Presbyterians, and Muslims for years. Rockne was a Lutheran when he was a student. I heard "haters" crying Muslims and Mormons at ND is unfair.


Had Father Ted not made ND coed ...
 

Ironman8

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BGIF, did I detect a jealous swipe at the Ironmen of DBP in your monologue? SMH. Certainly not my fault the Crusaders have to poach DBP coaches to try to compete with the mighty men from Ramsey.

Great work as always, however.
 
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BGIF

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Great post, but the flags must fly; fifteen yards for an illegal crack(back) on OMM!

I'm sure the Replay Official (if not from the Big 10 or Big EAST) would rule it was purely a nod to his more extensive first hand familiarity with history. As an alumnus and academician, OMM is the venerable one. The Yoda of IE. "Añejo" is a mark of distinction. I am but a mere grasshopper by comparison.

...

And finally, you got the whole article out without mentioning the baby boom. Interesting how the two eras of two platoon, or expanded roster football seemed to coincide with, the return of troops from WWII and later, the baby boom. I wonder how today's population compairs, and how that affects the rule's implementation.

The US population during WWII was 130 million. Today it's 310 million.

The Baby Boomers didn't hit the college gridiron until 1962 -1964 and college freshmen were ineligibile back then. Freshman eligibility is another rule that had changed over time.

The return of the troops may have had impact but they were going to college on Uncle Sam under the G.I. Bill. The schools had to buy the exra equipment but the scholarship money was coming from the school.
 

BGIF

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BGIF, did I detect a jealous swipe at the Ironmen of DBP in your monologue? SMH. Certainly not my fault the Crusaders have to poach DBP coaches to try to compete with the mighty men from Ramsey.

Great work as always, however.

Yes that was intended at you and the Polacks.

For those that don't know Ironman and I attended high schools who are arch rivals. His school is the venerable one having been founded in 1915 while mine was a Baby Boomer school opening in '59. Don Bosco was founded for Polish immigrants across the Hudson River in Westchester Co as the Don Bosco Polish School (rumor has it they were called Ironheads long before their nickname was sanitized to Ironmen). Their school burned down there and they moved to a farm in Bergen County. They changed the name to Don Bosco Institute so the Dutch (who settled in the area in the early 1600's) wouldn't take offense to all those foreigners. That they were Catholic was bad enough. Later they dropped the "Institute" (another cause for local jokes) and became Don Bosco Prep.

Bergen Catholic has a bigger enrollment but a much smaller campus. Rumor has it than Don Bosco's success on the gridiron parallelled that of Southern Cal's for similar reasons. Suppposedly Carroll and Tressel studied DBP recruiting methods but I suspect that was just Crusader sour grape juice. DBP has had incredible recruiting prowess over the past decade or so and owned BC on the gridiron.
 

kmoose

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Unfair to the kids who could have scholarships but don't because there is a cap.

There is a BIG difference between not having access to an athletic scholarship, and not getting an athletic scholarship at one of your favorite schools. I'm guessing that there are probably plenty of scholarships available, somewhere, for any football player who is D-IA caliber.
 
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