Mauk vs. Kiel

[woolybug25]

...and good number of 'them' do read the threads. along with parents and other family members..

Well, I hope they dont turn on the tv for the next 4-5 years. They are athletes, so I think it is pretty fair to evaluate them as so. They better get used to people evaluating their skills if they plan on continuing in athletics. If someone starts making disparaging comments, then they should stop. But recruiting evaluations are part of the game.

Furthermore, this conversation isnt limited to this site. This is a debate is going on at every Michigan site and Mizzou site as well. I assure you... this site has been the most kind. This debate will go on, whether we are having it or not.

 

[rtrn2glory]

knowing the type of people that live in kenton, i really don't think this type of banter bothers the mauk family...they've been second guessed in that community all the way back to when Ben played.

i don't know them personally, but if this kind of stuff bothered them they would have been gone a long time ago.

 

[woolybug25]

knowing the type of people that live in kenton, i really don't think this type of banter bothers the mauk family...they've been second guessed in that community all the way back to when Ben played.

i don't know them personally, but if this kind of stuff bothered them they would have been gone a long time ago.

Have you seen him play in person? If so, could you answer some questions from personal experience?:

1) Is he really 6'2" or do you think that he measures closer to 6'?
2) Is he actually fast, or does the gimmicky offense make it look that way?
3) Can he throw over 50 yards?
4) What does the community "second guess" their family about?
5) From the highlights, it looks as though he doesn't ever have to make reads or go through progressions. Do you think he is capable of that and does he at least play smart (ie throwing into double coverage, making bad "on the field" decisions)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Have you seen him play in person? If so, could you answer some questions from personal experience?:

1) Is he really 6'2" or do you think that he measures closer to 6'?
2) Is he actually fast, or does the gimmicky offense make it look that way?
3) Can he throw over 50 yards?
4) What does the community "second guess" their family about?
5) From the highlights, it looks as though he doesn't ever have to make reads or go through progressions. Do you think he is capable of that and does he at least play smart (ie throwing into double coverage, making bad "on the field" decisions)?

Thanks in advance.

Seen him play yes.

Answer your questions in order:

1. No, much closer to 6', if I had to guess a hair under 6'1", but he's built well.
2. He is fast, but it takes him a while to get going, meaning he doesn't have an explosive initial burst, but if given space he has big play potential (does that make sense?)
3. Yes, has a cannon and can throw it on a line.
4. They 2nd guess the same things, don't like the offense want to be more old school, think he's padding his kids stats (which he may be, although the dad does not call the offensive plays he has an O.C. and his son Ben actually called a lot of his own plays when he was in high school) Crazy how they don't like the offense considering they average 50 ppg...i guess they don't like to score. not a big fan of the community personally...bunch of hillbilles that like to *itch and moan about anything.
5. One of their main plays requires a presnap read and then a coverage read on the corner...they really only run a handful of plays, but when you had the type of guys they had this year to throw to it makes things a ton easier for any QB, but I agree he does make some decisions where his gun slinger mentality and belief in his arm get him in trouble. I believe he's capable of making the reads necessary, but I can see him being one of the guys Coach Kelly screams at most often early in his progression should he decide to come to Notre Dame

Hope this makes sense

 

[woolybug25]

Seen him play yes.

Answer your questions in order:

1. No, much closer to 6', if I had to guess a hair under 6'1", but he's built well.
2. He is fast, but it takes him a while to get going, meaning he doesn't have an explosive initial burst, but if given space he has big play potential (does that make sense?)
3. Yes, has a cannon and can throw it on a line.
4. They 2nd guess the same things, don't like the offense want to be more old school, think he's padding his kids stats (which he may be, although the dad does not call the offensive plays he has an O.C. and his son Ben actually called a lot of his own plays when he was in high school) Crazy how they don't like the offense considering they average 50 ppg...i guess they don't like to score. not a big fan of the community personally...bunch of hillbilles that like to *itch and moan about anything.
5. One of their main plays requires a presnap read and then a coverage read on the corner...they really only run a handful of plays, but when you had the type of guys they had this year to throw to it makes things a ton easier for any QB, but I agree he does make some decisions where his gun slinger mentality and belief in his arm get him in trouble. I believe he's capable of making the reads necessary, but I can see him being one of the guys Coach Kelly screams at most often early in his progression should he decide to come to Notre Dame

Hope this makes sense

Great, thank you very much for taking the time to do that.

If you have additional time, at some point could you point out the main play where you said that he has a presnap read on his youtube clip (I posted a highlight tape of both Mauk and Gunner on page 18, sorry I cant just repost it. The corporate security nazi's at work wont let me)? I would be interested in breaking that down. If you run across a play that he has more than a 2 WR progression, I would love to look at that too. When I saw it, it seemed like all of his reads were based off of the where the corner lined up and whether a safety moved up (a read that requires no adjustment on his part). I didn't see any WR progression over two looks and he usually chose the first reciever. What are your thoughts in regard to that?

Thanks again for adding some real insight to the conversation.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Great, thank you very much for taking the time to do that.

If you have additional time, at some point could you point out the main play where you said that he has a presnap read on his youtube clip (I posted a highlight tape of both Mauk and Gunner on page 18, sorry I cant just repost it. The corporate security nazi's at work wont let me)? I would be interested in breaking that down. If you run across a play that he has more than a 2 WR progression, I would love to look at that too. When I saw it, it seemed like all of his reads were based off of the where the corner lined up and whether a safety moved up (a read that requires no adjustment on his part). I didn't see any WR progression over two looks and he usually chose the first reciever. What are your thoughts in regard to that?

Thanks again for adding some real insight to the conversation.

The two main plays of their's that i saw:

2:45 mark: This is a play that reads the 3 receiver to the two receiver side. His initial read is the safety trying to cover the two inside receivers as they push vertical and then the corner to the same side.
Here's the progression:
-if the safety jumps the number 2 guy he zips or goes over top to the number 3 guy like he does on the film.
-if the safety stays with the number three guy and the corner jumps the #1 WR closest to the sideline then he zips it into the #2 guy along the hash.
-if the safety guards #3 and the corner #2 (the ideal scenario for the defense) then he has his outlet route on the sideline (#1)...this play is a real **tch to cover, b/c basically you gotta pick your poison.

6:45 mark: This play requires him to read the whole field. His initial read is the two receiver side of the corner sits he goes deep (on film) if the corner bails the receiver sits.
-if the corner bails and backer drops under the sit he hits #2 on the hash, if the safety bails.
-if those two are covered, he works his way to the 3 receiver side and reads a 3 level shallow, dig, post (everybody has this progression somewhere)

Highlight tape also has a few instances where he demonstrates his arm strength.

hope this helps and again makes atleast a little sense.

 

[woolybug25]

The two main plays of their's that i saw:

2:45 mark: This is a play that reads the 3 receiver to the two receiver side. His initial read is the safety trying to cover the two inside receivers as they push vertical and then the corner to the same side.
Here's the progression:
-if the safety jumps the number 2 guy he zips or goes over top to the number 3 guy like he does on the film.
-if the safety stays with the number three guy and the corner jumps the #1 WR closest to the sideline then he zips it into the #2 guy along the hash.
-if the safety guards #3 and the corner #2 (the ideal scenario for the defense) then he has his outlet route on the sideline (#1)...this play is a real **tch to cover, b/c basically you gotta pick your poison.

6:45 mark: This play requires him to read the whole field. His initial read is the two receiver side of the corner sits he goes deep (on film) if the corner bails the receiver sits.
-if the corner bails and backer drops under the sit he hits #2 on the hash, if the safety bails.
-if those two are covered, he works his way to the 3 receiver side and reads a 3 level shallow, dig, post (everybody has this progression somewhere)

Highlight tape also has a few instances where he demonstrates his arm strength.

hope this helps and again makes atleast a little sense.

Cool, I will take a look at the video when I get home. So it sounds like I am correct when I say:

1) The only pre-snap read is the basic corner/safety read that gives him a 1-2 WR progression in most cases (ie - he knows who he is throwing to usually before the ball is snapped)
2) 3-5 man progressions are just not a part of his offense (not Mauk's fault) sans the one play where he has a 3 level shallow, dig, post read. Most reads are off of the snap?

Have you seen him in a position where he checks down recievers in order to gain commitment from the safety? It seems like all of his reads are basic and short. No deep progressions and their offense doesn't have a lot of LB keys (I am assuming because they dont run much)? It seems like longer throws in his offense are a first look off of a initial safety read (although, if my memory serves, he often misses this read or goes off of the positioning of the corner), with short routes underneath to get commitment underneath, with Mauk breaking the pocket to buy time for the deep out? (I hope that makes sense)

 

[rtrn2glory]

Cool, I will take a look at the video when I get home. So it sounds like I am correct when I say:

1) The only pre-snap read is the basic corner/safety read that gives him a 1-2 WR progression in most cases (ie - he knows who he is throwing to usually before the ball is snapped)
2) 3-5 man progressions are just not a part of his offense (not Mauk's fault) sans the one play where he has a 3 level shallow, dig, post read. Most reads are off of the snap?

Have you seen him in a position where he checks down recievers in order to gain commitment from the safety? It seems like all of his reads are basic and short. No deep progressions and their offense doesn't have a lot of LB keys (I am assuming because they dont run much)? It seems like longer throws in his offense are a first look off of a initial safety read (although, if my memory serves, he often misses this read or goes off of the positioning of the corner), with short routes underneath to get commitment underneath, with Mauk breaking the pocket to buy time for the deep out? (I hope that makes sense)

a lot of the lack of LB keys deals with the fact that a lot of times there are no LB's on the field when he plays...most teams put their 8-9 best cover guys out there and try to cover the whole field.

Also, if you think about it a lot of good QB's deal with the same thing of knowing who they're throwing to or who they can't throw it to when they walk up to the line...i'm sure peyton and brady use this quite a bit.

i think he can adjust, there will be growing pains, but it is manageable

 

[woolybug25]

a lot of the lack of LB keys deals with the fact that a lot of times there are no LB's on the field when he plays...most teams put their 8-9 best cover guys out there and try to cover the whole field.

Also, if you think about it a lot of good QB's deal with the same thing of knowing who they're throwing to or who they can't throw it to when they walk up to the line...i'm sure peyton and brady use this quite a bit.

i think he can adjust, there will be growing pains, but it is manageable

Good point, I cant see the youtube, so I wont be able to look at the defensive alignments again until tonight. But spreading the defensive out would make sense.

While lack of progression responsibilites are limited in high school, I wouldn't say that most of the top 10 high school QB's know who they are throwing to. Take a look at Gunner's tape and you will see multiple progressions, changes at the line, and check downs. Same with Pike and several of the other top QB's. This also probably leads back to the level of football Mauk is playing, he doesn't seem to need to do it.

but he will at ND.

Good talk, btw

 

[rtrn2glory]

Good point, I cant see the youtube, so I wont be able to look at the defensive alignments again until tonight. But spreading the defensive out would make sense.

While lack of progression responsibilites are limited in high school, I wouldn't say that most of the top 10 high school QB's know who they are throwing to. Take a look at Gunner's tape and you will see multiple progressions, changes at the line, and check downs. Same with Pike and several of the other top QB's. This also probably leads back to the level of football Mauk is playing, he doesn't seem to need to do it.

but he will at ND.

Good talk, btw

thanks for giving me something to do at school!!! More fun to talk football than genetics

 

[johnnykillz]

More updates in discussion between Sapp and Lemming

More updates in discussion between Sapp and Lemming

• Mauk’s coming back this weekend. He may pop soon within a month. Lemming would like to see ND play it right and pick up Kiel first. Mauk jumping too soon may prevent Kiel from committing. He’s going to be a great college QB, but may not have the pro attributes Kiel has, but thinks he’s solid.

 

[woolybug25]

Lemming would like to see ND play it right and pick up Kiel first.

We may have to rename the thread....

i kid... i kid...

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Is there anyway Kelly is thinking to himself: "I wonder if I can challenge these two kids to come in and compete their *** off and whoever wins will win?"

 

[woolybug25]

Is there anyway Kelly is thinking to himself: "I wonder if I can challenge these two kids to come in and compete their *** off and whoever wins will win?"

If he could pull that miracle off, we would have the most competitively awesome QB battle in the country... Kelly would have to have magic under his sleeve.... like unicorns or pixie dust.

Golson, Hendrix, Kiel, Mauk.... my head would explode.

 

[NDinFL]

a little off-topic....

is "rtrn2glory"'s avatar the same Rudy TD that's in the new adidas as campaign??

 

[rtrn2glory]

a little off-topic....

is "rtrn2glory"'s avatar the same Rudy TD that's in the new adidas as campaign??

Yes it is...i loved that play, wish it would have stood as a TD, but Rudy is still a stud

 

[ColinKSU]

Is there anyway Kelly is thinking to himself: "I wonder if I can challenge these two kids to come in and compete their *** off and whoever wins will win?"

I doubt it. I mean, I guess he could think that, but he has to be a realist. Kiel's not coming to ND to compete with not just four QBs ahead of him, but someone in his own class. He's got too much game to settle for that kind of offer.

By the by, Kiel > Mauk.

 

[ACamp1900]

Golson.

 

[Ironman8]

Golson.

Agreed. Once he settles in and develops as a passer, he will be scary good.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Did Mauk make it to the game today??

 

[Irish Man3]

No. He visited earlier in the week.

 

[IrishLax]

Going to be funny when we end up with Cyler Miles or no QB. Personally, I'm totally fine with whiffing if Kiel goes elsewhere. Both Golson and Hendrix have a lot of eligibility left and a lot of QBing ability if they continue to develop.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

^This.. I would love to see Kelly stick with either Hendrix or Golson and give them the reigns for a solid 2 or 3 years.. competition is great, but sometimes one QB is better than 3.. both Hendrix and Golson are definitely capable of being "The Guy", just very curious and anxious to see which one emerges.. I agree with the poster above, if we don't end up with Kiel, I want to see Kelly and Co. put all their eggs in the Hendrix/Golson basket for 3 years and not necessarily bring in someone else.. but what do I know? I'm sure Kelly and Co. know what they're doing, I would just like to see another Quinn/Clausen where ONE guy is THE GUY for 3 years

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

How the hell do you pronounce Maty Mauk? For some reason, (yeah, great athlete and all, yada...I'm tired...) whenever I see the letters Maty Mauk I think of Mghty Mouse.

I'm typsy as I type.

 

[rtrn2glory]

mauk is pronounced like mock i believe

maty is matty with one t

 

[Irish Fam]

I like what Hendrix and Golson bring to the table enough to say that im alright with passing on a QB here. I know that is not going to happen, but I love the dual threat QB out of the spread. Although Mauk is athletic and Gunner has some TD runs in his highlights, I don't see either of them making plays with their feet to the same degree as Hendrix and Golson.

 

[SLCIRISH]

Going to be funny when we end up with Cyler Miles or no QB. Personally, I'm totally fine with whiffing if Kiel goes elsewhere. Both Golson and Hendrix have a lot of eligibility left and a lot of QBing ability if they continue to develop.

ANd look at the commits thus far, every verbal has been at a need position, QB has taken the back burner.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

ANd look at the commits thus far, every verbal has been at a need position, QB has taken the back burner.

Or maybe not....

@ISD Update: Notre Dame coaches dropped in on a certain QB from Ohio this morning. (Premium) Irish Sports Daily Forums

 

[rtrn2glory]

who was this mysterious QB?

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

who was this mysterious QB?

Mauk