Mauk vs. Kiel

[GoIrish41]

this is my nightmare...

My nightmare is someone continuously saying the same thing over and over again.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Really? The kid is a top-5 QB and tailor made for Kelly's offense, and it would be a nightmare if he committed? You can count me among those that are really high on Kiel and would prefer Kiel to Mauk, if given the choice. But I don't know if I'd go so far as to say getting a commitment from Mauk would be a nightmare. I think Mauk could be really good, and I'd rather have one QB that could be really good commit than none. And since it is not a guarantee that Kiel ends up at ND, getting none is a real possibility if we don't get Mauk.

 

[BurningRiver]

i would much rather have kiel. i know mauk may be a "better fit" but i would rather have the consensus #1 QB with a ton of potential than one of the "right fit" kinda guys. I would love to have either, but I would rather have kiel than mauk.

if kiel is as good as people say, i don't think it'll matter that much if he's not a "perfect fit" for the offense. accuracy and arm strength fits with any offense.

 

[Old Man Mike]

On young mister Mauk's "alleged bad attitude": Kelly must not see this, nor see it, if it exists, as a problem. The Mauk family and Maty must already know that no nonsense will go on with Coach. In a battle of wills, I'll take Kelly and Longo. If there are problems in this scenario, they will be elsewhere than Forcier-like attitudes.

 

[ColinKSU]

Doesn't have D-1 size? What kind of hypocritical bull is that?

Everett Golson is 6'0", 180, and we are touting him as the future of the program.

Kelly has taken two-star players and made them look like All-American caliber QBs. Dan LeFevour (Kelly won the MAC championship with a freshman LeFevour at the helm), Tony Pike, and Zach Collaros have all played excellently in his system, and all three of them were two-star or three-star prospects. I'm sure if he's that high on Mauk that he'll be capable of making him a great QB, as well.

I'm certainly not touting Golson as the future at the QB position. I don't particularly like him very much either. I think he's a...I don't know..."fun" prospect to talk about with his athleticism and off the field interests, but I don't expect him to be a multi-year starter at Notre Dame.

I personally view signing Mauk as striking out for the third-straight year at the QB position.

You can say Rees won big games for us, but it's more the case that the team won big games and Rees was the QB. Notre Dame beat USC *in spite* of how horrible Rees was.

Hendrix still hasn't picked up the system yet and Golson is a total unknown who needs to pack on a lot of weight before he'll be relied up for anything more than a package here or there.

What's signing Mauk accomplish? He just becomes another body on the depth chart that needs time and lots of carbs before he sees the field in any meaningful way. He's no top prospect that can come in and make the older QBs fear for their spot.

 

[woolybug25]

My nightmare is someone continuously saying the same thing over and over again.

I am pretty sure that I have given several different reasons for my feelings on Mauk. I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you. I haven't been disrespectful to anyone and have brought up a variety of points. By no means have I just repeated the same thing over and over. So I dont know where you are coming from on this one.

Really? The kid is a top-5 QB and tailor made for Kelly's offense, and it would be a nightmare if he committed? You can count me among those that are really high on Kiel and would prefer Kiel to Mauk, if given the choice. But I don't know if I'd go so far as to say getting a commitment from Mauk would be a nightmare. I think Mauk could be really good, and I'd rather have one QB that could be really good commit than none. And since it is not a guarantee that Kiel ends up at ND, getting none is a real possibility if we don't get Mauk.

My nightmare is missing on the best QB we have had a chance at since Clausen, and then have to watch him tear stuff up at, of all places. Michigan. All because we were impatient and wanted to pick up an overhyped kid with an attitude problem. As I said before, I dont see him beating out Golson or Hendrix anytime soon, so I dont see why we are possibly "throwing in the towel" for Gunner, by letting Mauk commit. You dont have to agree with me, but I am sticking to my opinion.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I personally view signing Mauk as striking out for the third-straight year at the QB position.

You can say Rees won big games for us, but it's more the case that the team won big games and Rees was the QB. Notre Dame beat USC *in spite* of how horrible Rees was.

Hendrix still hasn't picked up the system yet and Golson is a total unknown who needs to pack on a lot of weight before he'll be relied up for anything more than a package here or there.

How, exactly, do you know how Hendrix is doing in the offense?

And how, exactly, is recruiting (let's say for a moment that Mauk signs) a top-5 QB a strikeout?

And how, exactly, is the recruitment of Hendrix, Rees, and Golson anything but an "Incomplete" at this point?

 

[ColinKSU]

How, exactly, do you know how Hendrix is doing in the offense?

And how, exactly, is recruiting (let's say for a moment that Mauk signs) a top-5 QB a strikeout?

And how, exactly, is the recruitment of Hendrix, Rees, and Golson anything but an "Incomplete" at this point?

Because I've read practice reports? Everyone's said Hendrix has great tools but is still struggling with picking up all of the offense and is not making all the throws right now you need out of a starter. He's got great gifts, but he has a ways to go still.

Mauk isn't a top-five QB. I know he is right now, but it's April 11th, 2011. So few players have actually been evaluated right now that someone like Maty with his hype and stats is getting the benefit of the doubt. When February comes around, I'm willing to bet you a cookie he isn't a top-five QB.

Rees is not an elite QB. He wasn't when he was being recruited, he didn't play like one last year and he doesn't have the size/arm strength/ceiling to ever be one. He's a game manager. He'll get better at managing games if he is given the reps, but he's not a Jimmy Clausen or Brady Quinn recruit.

Golson is a TOTAL incomplete right now -- you're 100% right. But he was also a three-star QB with some questions about how he'd perform at the highest level. He's *crazy* short and that's not changing for him unless he wears high heels on the field.

Notre Dame has one elite *home run* QB on its roster right now and he's Dayne Crist. If Dayne were playing under Charlie still, he'd be unquestionably a stud. As it stands right now, he's still the best option ND has to QB. Go read the reports from any ND site...he's doing better in camp than anyone else on the roster.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Because I've read practice reports? Everyone's said Hendrix has great tools but is still struggling with picking up all of the offense and is not making all the throws right now you need out of a starter. He's got great gifts, but he has a ways to go still.

Mauk isn't a top-five QB. I know he is right now, but it's April 11th, 2011. So few players have actually been evaluated right now that someone like Maty with his hype and stats is getting the benefit of the doubt. When February comes around, I'm willing to bet you a cookie he isn't a top-five QB.

Rees is not an elite QB. He wasn't when he was being recruited, he didn't play like one last year and he doesn't have the size/arm strength/ceiling to ever be one. He's a game manager. He'll get better at managing games if he is given the reps, but he's not a Jimmy Clausen or Brady Quinn recruit.

Golson is a TOTAL incomplete right now -- you're 100% right. But he was also a three-star QB with some questions about how he'd perform at the highest level. He's *crazy* short and that's not changing for him unless he wears high heels on the field.

Notre Dame has one elite *home run* QB on its roster right now and he's Dayne Crist. If Dayne were playing under Charlie still, he'd be unquestionably a stud. As it stands right now, he's still the best option ND has to QB. Go read the reports from any ND site...he's doing better in camp than anyone else on the roster.

Golson and Hendrix also both have 4 years of football left. Hendrix didn't play in a spread type offense in high school. Even if he's hasn't become automatic with it yet, he's got time. Rees probably isn't elite because of his size. But, we have no idea about the other two could be.

FWIW, Quinn was the 10th ranked pro-style QB in the country on Rivals, while Hendrix was 13th.

You're right about Crist. But, he also didn't see meaningful time until he was a junior.

I'm not arguing that you're wrong, just that your certainty is unwarranted. I just don't think we know yet.

 

[DillonHall]

Because I've read practice reports? Everyone's said Hendrix has great tools but is still struggling with picking up all of the offense and is not making all the throws right now you need out of a starter. He's got great gifts, but he has a ways to go still.

Mauk isn't a top-five QB. I know he is right now, but it's April 11th, 2011. So few players have actually been evaluated right now that someone like Maty with his hype and stats is getting the benefit of the doubt. When February comes around, I'm willing to bet you a cookie he isn't a top-five QB.

Rees is not an elite QB. He wasn't when he was being recruited, he didn't play like one last year and he doesn't have the size/arm strength/ceiling to ever be one. He's a game manager. He'll get better at managing games if he is given the reps, but he's not a Jimmy Clausen or Brady Quinn recruit.

Golson is a TOTAL incomplete right now -- you're 100% right. But he was also a three-star QB with some questions about how he'd perform at the highest level. He's *crazy* short and that's not changing for him unless he wears high heels on the field.

Notre Dame has one elite *home run* QB on its roster right now and he's Dayne Crist. If Dayne were playing under Charlie still, he'd be unquestionably a stud. As it stands right now, he's still the best option ND has to QB. Go read the reports from any ND site...he's doing better in camp than anyone else on the roster.

Are we merely looking at star rankings or analyzing how a player might fit into the offensive system?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Because I've read practice reports? Everyone's said Hendrix has great tools but is still struggling with picking up all of the offense and is not making all the throws right now you need out of a starter. He's got great gifts, but he has a ways to go still.

Mauk isn't a top-five QB. I know he is right now, but it's April 11th, 2011. So few players have actually been evaluated right now that someone like Maty with his hype and stats is getting the benefit of the doubt. When February comes around, I'm willing to bet you a cookie he isn't a top-five QB.

Rees is not an elite QB. He wasn't when he was being recruited, he didn't play like one last year and he doesn't have the size/arm strength/ceiling to ever be one. He's a game manager. He'll get better at managing games if he is given the reps, but he's not a Jimmy Clausen or Brady Quinn recruit.

Golson is a TOTAL incomplete right now -- you're 100% right. But he was also a three-star QB with some questions about how he'd perform at the highest level. He's *crazy* short and that's not changing for him unless he wears high heels on the field.

Notre Dame has one elite *home run* QB on its roster right now and he's Dayne Crist. If Dayne were playing under Charlie still, he'd be unquestionably a stud. As it stands right now, he's still the best option ND has to QB. Go read the reports from any ND site...he's doing better in camp than anyone else on the roster.

You realize today Charlie Molnar said, "Andrew has a tremendous understanding for the game."

So what exactly are you talking about?

Oh by the way, in case you didn't know, Charlie Molnar is offensive coordinator..

 

[IrishLax]

this is the most polarizing recruit i have seen at IE...

The problem is you have some people who say "hey, I trust Kelly and realize that even though Mauk has flaws if Kelly didn't feel he was awesome he wouldn't have an offer" and there are other people who say "it's crazy that we have the #1 QB with a legacy connection to Notre Dame growing up in Indiana saying he wants to stay close to home and focus on education... yet might miss out on him for a kid who has good upside at best and is a head case at worst."

There is so much in play here that goes beyond just the recruit himself... and that really polarizes things. I will simply say that if Zeke Pike doesn't have an offer and Maty does... well, Kelly must have a damn good reason for offering him with 4 QBs on the current roster. When you operate under that assumption it is easy to see the positives.

 

[IrishLax]

You realize today Charlie Molnar said, "Andrew has a tremendous understanding for the game."

So what exactly are you talking about?

Oh by the way, in case you didn't know, Charlie Molnar is offensive coordinator..

and QB coach lol... point to FightingIrishLover7

 

[NDinL.A.]

i would much rather have kiel. i know mauk may be a "better fit" but i would rather have the consensus #1 QB with a ton of potential than one of the "right fit" kinda guys. I would love to have either, but I would rather have kiel than mauk.

if kiel is as good as people say, i don't think it'll matter that much if he's not a "perfect fit" for the offense. accuracy and arm strength fits with any offense.

You're showing your age buddy. Football isn't about 5 star recruits lined up all over the place. It's about getting the right guys for your systems. You need talent for sure, no doubt about that. But you don't need a bunch of 5 stars to win. Just look at Alabama 2 years ago. Their defense how PLENTY of 3 stars and even a no star in there, and they completely dominated the SEC.

If anything, you'd love to combine the moxy of a Rees (which Mauk seems to have), the athleticism to move the pocket and run if need be (mauk has that), and the physical attributes of a Dayne Crist type, and the ability to do it in your system. I don't need the consensus #1 recruit if a) I'm not sure he'll come, and b)i have a guy that wants to be Irish AND might even fit my system better. Mauk's dad sw today's practice and said their systems are eerily similar (without the complexities of course), so you KNOW Mauk can put up numbers in the spread.

Mauk is a gamer guys, not unlike Colt McCoy. Need 2 yards and there's a linebacker in front of him? He'll put his head down and get those 2 yards. 4th and 8 with the game on the line? He'll fit the ball in that tight spot with cool ice in his veins.

OMM said everything that needed to be said about attitude. BK wouldn't recruit a selfish prick.

I'll say this...you have 4 years of eligibility left between both Hendrix and Golson, both considered QBs of the future. You are absolutely fine on taking a QB that would need time to develop, especially one that you know will suit your system to a tee. And if Kiel is scared off by competition, then oh well, you still have a highly rated QB in Mauk. And if Kiel wants to come on board and compete and show why he's the top QB prospect in the nation, the more the merrier.

But no way should this be your 'worst nightmare' wooly! Kid can play bro. This is his thread, his family could be reading this, and that's just a poor choice of words. Peace...

 

[Ben E.]

But no way should this be your 'worst nightmare' wooly! Kid can play bro. This is his thread, his family could be reading this, and that's just a poor choice of words. Peace...

+1

 

[GoIrish41]

I am pretty sure that I have given several different reasons for my feelings on Mauk. I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you. I haven't been disrespectful to anyone and have brought up a variety of points. By no means have I just repeated the same thing over and over. So I dont know where you are coming from on this one.

You've given the same opinions over and over again. You are entitled to your opinion, and it is crystal clear what that opinion is ... you don't want Mauk. We get it. While you haven't been disrespectful to any posters on this board, I think you have been very disprespectful to a prospective recruit (and his father/coach) who will in all probability be our next commit. You have come up with numerous reasons (several based on heresay and assumption) and others based on your obvious lean toward a recruit who it seems you favor because the recruiting services say in the #1 QB. That is where I'm coming from.

 

[ColinKSU]

You realize today Charlie Molnar said, "Andrew has a tremendous understanding for the game."

So what exactly are you talking about?

Oh by the way, in case you didn't know, Charlie Molnar is offensive coordinator..

Is Charlie going to say he sucks? I'm sure he does have a tremendous understanding for the game. That doesn't mean they're going to put him out there against South Florida.

There are plenty of reports out there from people who have watched it first-hand that say he isn't consistent and will make a good throw, followed by a couple head scratchers.

If you don't believe me, I don't know what to tell ya. I'm not making it up.

 

[ColinKSU]

Mauk is a gamer guys, not unlike Colt McCoy. Need 2 yards and there's a linebacker in front of him? He'll put his head down and get those 2 yards. 4th and 8 with the game on the line? He'll fit the ball in that tight spot with cool ice in his veins.

How do you know any of that? He hasn't had to do any of that in high school because he hasn't played the kind of competition that would force those scenarios.

And there definitely weren't any 4th and 8s with the game on the line where he made a big play because they lost 22-20 to Ottawa- Glandorf during the regular season. Plus, they lost 35-32 to Kettering Alter in the post season.

The rest of their games were blowout wins. So if anything, I don't know if he can win the big game when it's all on the line. He has no evidence that he has that ability.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Is Charlie going to say he sucks? I'm sure he does have a tremendous understanding for the game. That doesn't mean they're going to put him out there against South Florida.

There are plenty of reports out there from people who have watched it first-hand that say he isn't consistent and will make a good throw, followed by a couple head scratchers.

If you don't believe me, I don't know what to tell ya. I'm not making it up.

He's 19. He didn't play the spread in high school. He has 4 years of elligibility left. Why wouldn't he be inconsistent?

How consistent was Clausen during his true freshman year?

I'm not even a Hendrix guy. I don't have any idea how he'll do. Just don't know why you think he's supposed to be a polished veteran. He has time to sit behind Dayne...and, don't forget, Crist was pretty shaky in the spread last year as well.

 

[ColinKSU]

He's 19. He didn't play the spread in high school. He has 4 years of elligibility left. Why wouldn't he be inconsistent?

How consistent was Clausen during his true freshman year?

I'm not even a Hendrix guy. I don't have any idea how he'll do. Just don't know why you think he's supposed to be a polished veteran. He has time to sit behind Dayne...and, don't forget, Crist was pretty shaky in the spread last year as well.

I don't even understand what we're arguing about with Hendrix.

I said that he wasn't an elite QB prospect on the level of Clausen, Crist or Kiel (He isn't. Scout had him as a three-star and the 29th best prospect. That's a bit low, but I don't think they were crazy) and that he isn't consistent to the point where we can go "Yup...there's our future starter at QB" (which he isn't.)

I *LIKE* Hendrix. I think he's the best option we have at QB outside of Crist (and it's WITH Mauk on the roster). I just said he's not a proven commodity yet and no one can be sure that he's going to be a multi-year starter for Notre Dame like we were about Jimmy or Brady.

 

[TerryTate]

Look guys, Mauk is a Rivals 250, Scout 4* #5 QB, Top 200, and 247Sports Rating: 90, 4* quarterback.

Not sure what all of you "in the know" people are missing when you say he's not worth the offer. Kelly likes him. The recruiting services like him.

Kiel would be great... but he's seems to like Oklahoma, and ND is not in the lead.

This entire recruiting landscape is going to change after two games.

As I posted earlier, he did not commit. He needs to talk some things over with his family.

 

[IrishLax]

Is Charlie going to say he sucks? I'm sure he does have a tremendous understanding for the game. That doesn't mean they're going to put him out there against South Florida.

There are plenty of reports out there from people who have watched it first-hand that say he isn't consistent and will make a good throw, followed by a couple head scratchers.

If you don't believe me, I don't know what to tell ya. I'm not making it up.

Ummm.... coaches have made many non-flattering remarks about players...

They said Deion Walker plateaued. They said Lynch and Ishaq aren't even close. I don't think they sugar coat it as much as you are making it sound. If Hendrix wasn't playing well they would say "he still has a long way to go" or make a comment about consistency. In fact, Kelly has said with other QBs (namely Montana) that his consistency was the issue.

Please link me these reports.

 

[Ironman8]

I don't even understand what we're arguing about with Hendrix.

I said that he wasn't an elite QB prospect on the level of Clausen, Crist or Kiel (He isn't. Scout had him as a three-star ant the 29th best prospect. That's a bit low, but I don't think they were crazy) and that he isn't consistent to the point where we can go "Yup...there's our future starter at QB" (which he isn't.)

I *LIKE* Hendrix. I think he's the best option we have at QB outside of Crist (and it's WITH Mauk on the roster). I just said he's not a proven commodity yet and no one can be sure that he's going to be a multi-year starter for Notre Dame like we were about Jimmy or Brady.

Let's not overlook the fact that the main reason these two were multi-year starters was the fact that we lacked quality depth at the Quarterback position at the time, forcing them both to play as freshmen well before either were ready. They only blossomed into great players for the Irish after several years taking lumps, costing us games along the way. I would much rather have a system where we have quality, upperclassmen depth at the position at all times and have gone away from the "multi-year starter" model, which undoubtedly hurts the team during the early year or two of the said QB's development. If we can transition from a veteran Crist, to a veteran Rees or Hendrix, to a veteran Golson or Mauk or Kiel, I see that as a much better system for ND and our sustained, BCS level success than having a player like Kiel come in and we thrust him into the fire when he is young and it costs the team games while he learns.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I don't even understand what we're arguing about with Hendrix.

I said that he wasn't an elite QB prospect on the level of Clausen, Crist or Kiel (He isn't. Scout had him as a three-star and the 29th best prospect. That's a bit low, but I don't think they were crazy) and that he isn't consistent to the point where we can go "Yup...there's our future starter at QB" (which he isn't.)

I *LIKE* Hendrix. I think he's the best option we have at QB outside of Crist (and it's WITH Mauk on the roster). I just said he's not a proven commodity yet and no one can be sure that he's going to be a multi-year starter for Notre Dame like we were about Jimmy or Brady.

We're splitting hairs here, no question. But, Hendrix was roughly the equivalent of Quinn according to Rivals (I looked up Scout too, but that didn't help my argument ).

I agree that Hendrix isn't proven. Neither is Dayne. Neither is Mauk. Neither is Kiel.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Let's not overlook the fact that the main reason these two were multi-year starters was the fact that we lacked quality depth at the Quarterback position at the time, forcing them both to play as freshmen well before either were ready. They only blossomed into great players for the Irish after several years taking lumps, costing us games along the way. I would much rather have a system where we have quality, upperclassmen depth at the position at all times and have gone away from the "multi-year starter" model, which undoubtedly hurts the team during the early year or two of the said QB's development. If we can transition from a veteran Crist, to a veteran Rees or Hendrix, to a veteran Golson or Mauk or Kiel, I see that as a much better system for ND and our sustained, BCS level success than having a player like Kiel come in and we thrust him into the fire when he is young and it costs the team games while he learns.

^This....oh my goodness, this.

 

[DillonHall]

I don't even understand what we're arguing about with Hendrix.

I said that he wasn't an elite QB prospect on the level of Clausen, Crist or Kiel (He isn't. Scout had him as a three-star and the 29th best prospect. That's a bit low, but I don't think they were crazy) and that he isn't consistent to the point where we can go "Yup...there's our future starter at QB" (which he isn't.)

I *LIKE* Hendrix. I think he's the best option we have at QB outside of Crist (and it's WITH Mauk on the roster). I just said he's not a proven commodity yet and no one can be sure that he's going to be a multi-year starter for Notre Dame like we were about Jimmy or Brady.

Well, Rivals named him the 13th best player at his position and the 235th prospect nationwide. And ESPN also ranked him as a four star QB and the 11th best at his position. Why did you choose to only mention the Scout ranking?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Well, Rivals named him the 13th best player at his position and the 235th prospect nationwide. And ESPN also ranked him as a four star QB and the 11th best at his position. Why did you choose to only mention the Scout ranking?

We all selectively choose data in order to make our points.

 

[alohagoirish]

Scout has updated Mauk's rating--to the number 5 QB and the 116t best player overall---kiel may be better--but mauk is going to rate out higher then rees--higher then golson--and similar to hendrix--4 star everywhere----and top 10ish QB---its fine to prefer Kiel but we shouldn't act like mauk is a lowly ranked average player.

 

[ColinKSU]

Well, Rivals named him the 13th best player at his position and the 235th prospect nationwide. And ESPN also ranked him as a four star QB and the 11th best at his position. Why did you choose to only mention the Scout ranking?

Because it shows dissension? Crist was #3 on Scout, #2 on Rivals and #2 on ESPN. No dissension there. Same with Jimmy.

I'm fairly sure Kiel will follow along those lines. You don't often fall too far from #1.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I have saved my two pennies in this conversation but I'll spend them now. Who gives a flying **** who is rated higher or who is five star or who is four star or who is #1 or #5? just give me a damn winner. Whether it's Mauk, Kiel, or Jimmy from the block, I trust the coaching staff when they offer a kid and want him to play for our team. I'll just sit back and continue to watch this banter from a distance. Call me when you guys decide who is the better fit.