Regarding Today's Accident

[TDHeysus]

...the mob party is building.

I can confirm this....I am seeing some BK and now, Swarbrick must go stuff. Also, someone I heard on the radio today (maybe it was whitlock) seems to think the story is going to get bigger over the weekend. Maybe that is wishful thinking on his part, but maybe not.

 

[IrishLax]

So much idiocy right now as all of these talking heads give their opinion on something they know nothing about. Wait a month, see what is concluded from the investigations and then we will all have a better idea of exactly what happened.

for what it's worth... in the area of civil engineering I work in there is an extensive amount of climbing and tower work. It is like the third most dangerous profession to logging and deep sea fishing. Why? Because the individuals doing it don't pay enough attention and don't adhere to safety codes 100% of the time. If they did, there would be almost zero accidents.

In this case, without more information, it could have been the fault of a multitude of people:

-The manufacturer might not have posted appropriate warnings, given appropriate safety briefings, etc.
-The video director or whoever was in charge that day maybe should have stopped him... or maybe there were no procedures on the books... or who knows?
-For all we know Declan might have been told "if it gets too windy up there and you don't feel safe come down" and he didn't listen

The whole point is NO ONE KNOWS!!! So for all of these idiots hacks to post these mindless articles makes me want to vomit. It's just disgraceful.

From what I've heard... there were no regulations on the books. Anywhere. No policy in place at all. Who's fault is that? OSHA's? The University's? Seriously people. Has this kind of event ever happened before? That's a serious question... has there ever been another death from a videographer on top of a scissor lift? When a freak accident occurs, how the hell can you blame someone for not thinking of it?

Captain Hindsights at their finest. You can't predict everything. If you could, we'd be 12-0 every year and there would be no recession.

 

[McInator]

So much idiocy right now as all of these talking heads give their opinion on something they know nothing about. Wait a month, see what is concluded from the investigations and then we will all have a better idea of exactly what happened.

for what it's worth... in the area of civil engineering I work in there is an extensive amount of climbing and tower work. It is like the third most dangerous profession to logging and deep sea fishing. Why? Because the individuals doing it don't pay enough attention and don't adhere to safety codes 100% of the time. If they did, there would be almost zero accidents.

In this case, without more information, it could have been the fault of a multitude of people:

-The manufacturer might not have posted appropriate warnings, given appropriate safety briefings, etc.
-The video director or whoever was in charge that day maybe should have stopped him... or maybe there were no procedures on the books... or who knows?
-For all we know Declan might have been told "if it gets too windy up there and you don't feel safe come down" and he didn't listen

The whole point is NO ONE KNOWS!!! So for all of these idiots hacks to post these mindless articles makes me want to vomit. It's just disgraceful.

From what I've heard... there were no regulations on the books. Anywhere. No policy in place at all. Who's fault is that? OSHA's? The University's? Seriously people. Has this kind of event ever happened before? That's a serious question... has there ever been another death from a videographer on top of a scissor lift? When a freak accident occurs, how the hell can you blame someone for not thinking of it?

Captain Hindsights at their finest. You can't predict everything. If you could, we'd be 12-0 every year and there would be no recession.

Read the chicago tribune and arizona piece's I just posted. They quote a student that this happened to in 95 and suffered serious injuries.

 

[TDHeysus]

with the millions of dollars at thier disposal, why hasnt ND went to 50ft polls with cameras mounted on top of them? they could have had an operator sit in a remote office adjusting the angles and focusing on the practice field? That remote operator could be in an office building, or maybe controlling them from a wireless laptop, shielded from weather, etc. instead of having multiple camera-operators up on scissor lifts, you could have 1 operator controlling all the cameras from 1 laptop.

The reason im asking this is because the k-12 school district I work for (a public school district, mind you) has cameras setup on all 46+ campuses, plus administration buildings. The system is highly configurable and access can be controlled in a variety of very secure ways. These camera systems have been in place in my district for about 3-5 years now. For ND, the system would have amounted to 'chump change' to implement.

 

[IrishLax]

Read the chicago tribune and arizona piece's I just posted. They quote a student that this happened to in 95 and suffered serious injuries.

So there has never been a death and it was 15 years ago.... therefor this has never happened before. Should Brian Kelly and Swarbick monitor all players who use vending machines to make sure they're using them right? What about making sure they know how to ride bikes right? Because statistically the chances of dieing doing one of those activities are FAR higher than using a scissor lift.

Lastly, what about when Stafon Johnson almost died weight lifting? Obviously, if he had spotters and was lifting the right way that never would have happened. Did Carrol take ANY crap when he had his throat crushed? NO!!! It was all "poor USC... what a tragic accident." Yet an even more unlikely event occurs in a scenario a coach really knows nothing about and it's "FIRE KELLY!!"

The logic of the media, and McInator, is really starting to make my brain hurt.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

with the millions of dollars at thier disposal, why hasnt ND went to 50ft polls with cameras mounted on top of them? they could have had an operator sit in a remote office adjusting the angles and focusing on the practice field? That remote operator could be in an office building, or maybe controlling them from a wireless laptop, shielded from weather, etc. instead of having multiple camera-operators up on scissor lifts, you could have 1 operator controlling all the cameras from laptop.

The reason im asking this is because the k-12 school district I work for (a public school district, mind you) has cameras setup on all 46+ campuses, plus administration buildings. The system is highly configurable and access can be controlled in a variety of very secure ways. These camera systems have been in place in my district for about 3-5 years now. For ND, the system would have amounted to 'chump change' to implement.

And California is BROKE. And we pay a state tax on top of high sales tax and high vehicle taxes. ND is a private University.

 

[McInator]

So there has never been a death and it was 15 years ago.... therefor this has never happened before. Should Brian Kelly and Swarbick monitor all players who use vending machines to make sure they're using them right? What about making sure they know how to ride bikes right? Because statistically the chances of dieing doing one of those activities are FAR higher than using a scissor lift.

Lastly, what about when Stafon Johnson almost died weight lifting? Obviously, if he had spotters and was lifting the right way that never would have happened. Did Carrol take ANY crap when he had his throat crushed? NO!!! It was all "poor USC... what a tragic accident." Yet an even more unlikely event occurs in a scenario a coach really knows nothing about and it's "FIRE KELLY!!"

The logic of the media, and McInator, is really starting to make my brain hurt.

No offense, but you seem really, really dumb. A nearly identical incident happened at a college that was filming football practice in 95 which resulted in 2 serious injuries. These types of incidents are called near-hit fatalities in the safety business. You are supposed to learn from these types of incidents, not ignore them and let a kid die and then be all like SEE THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. It was 1995, not 1895. And if you don't see a difference in inately dangerous activities like doing things at 50 feet in the air as opposed to getting candy bars and lifting weights - well then I can't help you.

 

[IrishLax]

No offense, but you seem really, really dumb. A nearly identical incident happened at a college that was filming football practice in 95 which resulted in 2 serious injuries. These types of incidents are called near-hit fatalities in the safety business. You are supposed to learn from these types of incidents, not ignore them and let a kid die and then be all like SEE THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. It was 1995, not 1895. And if you don't see a difference in inately dangerous activities like doing things at 50 feet in the air as opposed to getting candy bars and lifting weights - well then I can't help you.

It's also called an isolated incident when it happens once in 15 years. And the fact that there aren't more regulations on the books (so I've heard in a couple articles but have not confirmed personally) proves this. If it was a serious safety concern or common occurrence there would be pages and pages on it the way there is on swimming pools and things like that.

And with that... I'm done responding to you. You're completely hopeless. The fact is people like you and most of the dumb *** media are not waiting for the facts to come out and that is idiotic. Once the report is released, the University and other authorities can come to a better conclusion on what happened and who is responsible. Until then everything you are saying is conjecture and dribble.

Sincerely,
Your neighborhood civil engineer (who going out to do tower climbing/inspection in Tucson in less than 48 hours and knows a thing or two about safety, wind loads and OSHA procedures)

PS. At least 95% of this board thinks your posts are worthless. It's not just me.

 

[WaveDomer]

This was a tragic and horrible accident that didn't have to happen. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone involved in this. But people need to take a step back and wait for things to unfold before assigning blame everywhere. Accidents that shouldn't happen, happen all the time. It's an unfortunate fact of life. Even when you follow precautions, bad things can happen. So everyone needs to breathe, pay respects and give thoughts of love to the family of this young man, and then thoughts can move towards why this happened, what can be done so it doesn't happen again, and is anyone responsible. There is time for all of this type of thinking. But give it some time to sort out before jumping to conclusions about who did what.

 

[military_irish]

No offense, but you seem really, really dumb. A nearly identical incident happened at a college that was filming football practice in 95 which resulted in 2 serious injuries. These types of incidents are called near-hit fatalities in the safety business. You are supposed to learn from these types of incidents, not ignore them and let a kid die and then be all like SEE THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. It was 1995, not 1895. And if you don't see a difference in inately dangerous activities like doing things at 50 feet in the air as opposed to getting candy bars and lifting weights - well then I can't help you.

Sorry I didn't want to get involved but a point came acrossed my mind so i had to share.

Planes crash, alot because of mechanical failure. If you plane malfunctions, and a solution is found doesn't mean that it will never happen again. Just that the probability goes down. I've personally seen a plane crash due to "shotty" maintenance, and they have meetings and come to conlusions and every plane in that fleet is grounded until they all have thorough inspections.

But i later found out that another plane had a near accident, some months after that incident.

So just because an accident occurs once doesn't mean it will never happen again or people will always learn from it. The phrase "that won't happen to me" often plays a part. Most of the time accidents occur because of a string of incidents. Not one person is at fault. It is a tragedy and an accident. No heads need to roll and no games should be cancelled.

I've experienced close people pass from accidents, but I couldn't put my life on hold for a week or two, as much as i wanted to. I just had to learn to cope as my life continued. It was hard, and i mean very hard but it has to happen, people move on and need to continue life. Because as much as i wish something could happen to bring him back, nothing will.

My Prayers and thoughts still go out to him and his family. Go Irish!!!

 

[irishandy]

My thoughts and prayers go out to Declan Sullivan's family and friends. May he rest in peace.

 

[phgreek]

No offense, but you seem really, really dumb. A nearly identical incident happened at a college that was filming football practice in 95 which resulted in 2 serious injuries. These types of incidents are called near-hit fatalities in the safety business. You are supposed to learn from these types of incidents, not ignore them and let a kid die and then be all like SEE THIS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. It was 1995, not 1895. And if you don't see a difference in inately dangerous activities like doing things at 50 feet in the air as opposed to getting candy bars and lifting weights - well then I can't help you.

so Mc, and all the rest who think Kelly has responsibility...help me connect the dots. I agree if something similar happened in 1995, a safety professional, or department head for videography would note it, and establish policies/procedures...but why would Brian Kelly, in 1995, have noted it? I'd be surprised if he even had videography above field level before Cincy...as well, why would a coach be responsible for videography...my experience has been that its a department within the Atheletic department...not just the football program. Having a hard time making an organizational or logical tie to Brian Kelly... you guys know more about the specific organizational structure than I do...so explain your path to Brian Kelly so I can understand it...

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

If Kelly gets fired because of this, I'm done with Notre Dame forever. That would be incredibly stupid. Worst decision the school would have ever made.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I find his remarks on the exceptional nature of the gusts to be disingenuous. It was a very windy last few days in South Bend and the county in which campus is located was put on tornado warning just the day before. In fact, yesterday afternoon before the accident, a professor I work for was stranded in Chicago because they wouldn't fly out to South Bend with the wind the way it was.

Brah, My wife and I just watched the video of Jack's statements. I asked her how she felt about it as she's a teacher and has a pretty level head. Her thought was that he was being evasive and protecting his own ***. I guess the nature of a trial lawyer comes out in times like this...pity. RIP Declan...

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

The media is making Kelly out to be some sort of soulless monster.

Some points:

1. How in the world would Brian Kelly know the safety regulations of scissor lifts?
2. Could Brian Kelly have assumed the necessary safety procedures would be taken with Declan Sullivan?
3. Why didn't Sullivan let himself down?

If Brian Kelly didn't know, he should have asked himself the question...."would I have put my own child up in that lift in those conditions on that particaular day?"....

 

[DomerBoy]

Brah, My wife and I just watched the video of Jack's statements. I asked her how she felt about it as she's a teacher and has a pretty level head. Her thought was that he was being evasive and protecting his own ***. I guess the nature of a trial lawyer comes out in times like this...pity. RIP Declan...

It does seem like they are already trying to cover something with the statements that were released.

 

[mgriff]

I donno the extent to which Kelly was involved in having the young man up in that tower. If there was at any point a connection with Kelly making the choice to have someone up in the tower filming, then it should absolutely be his ***. If Kelly normally doesn't say a word to anyone in video about their day to day operations, then I obviously think blame should fall somewhere else. This all depends on the extent of Kelly's involvement.

Sure Kelly shares the figurative blame because it falls under the football umbrella, but I can completely understand how he wouldn't think about video at all leading up to, or during practice. At this point, there are far too many variables to get a solid grasp on what actually took place. One thing is for certain though, Swarbrick was in damage control mode at the press conference. I would think we'll start to find out some solid details after the game tomorrow.

 

[WaveDomer]

Sounds like it was a beautiful memorial service.

Declan. « Unsettled

 

[phgreek]

Sounds like it was a beautiful memorial service.

Declan. « Unsettled

WOW...very good writer...and indeed the service sounded like it was fitting.

 

[rikkitikki08]

If Kelly gets fired because of this, I'm done with Notre Dame forever. That would be incredibly stupid. Worst decision the school would have ever made.

I dont think it will happen but if it does i will have to agree

 

[dskoo65]

It's also called an isolated incident when it happens once in 15 years. .

you have to look at things in context. there arent major wind events that last two days covering such a large region happening every week.....thus very few incidents would occur.

this was a 2 day wind storm that everybody knew about and every body could feel.......

.......oh, except Jack Swarbrick, of course.

 

[dskoo65]

If Kelly gets fired because of this, I'm done with Notre Dame forever. That would be incredibly stupid. Worst decision the school would have ever made.

if kelly was in any way involved directly in having people filming on that day, then getting fired should be the least of his worries......besides, would you really want someone that stupid (if he were to have done that) working for ND?

 

[TerryTate]

Good ESPN article

Good ESPN article

Remember, celebrate Declan Sullivan; Notre Dame investigation will conclude soon enough - ESPN

When in doubt, blame someone.

That's what we do when tragedy happens. We don't look for a reason as much as we look for a villain. A victim can't just be a victim. There has to be a culprit to justify our anguish.

Declan Sullivan died much too young and in a way that defies logic. So our first instinct is to angrily point a forefinger at Notre Dame and say, "It's your fault." As if that will bring Sullivan back to life.

Powerful, destructive gusts of wind swept through the Midwest this past week. I live there. I saw and heard them before I left to cover the World Series. Parts of our suburban Chicago neighborhood looked like a disaster zone after they swept through.

Those same punishing winds descended on the 1,250 acres of the Notre Dame campus. The sturdy and stately Gothic buildings could withstand the wind blasts. A metal lift -- and the 20-year-old placed inside its metal basket -- could not.

An act of God and an act of neglect are a lethal combination. Sullivan should never have been on that scissor lift that day. On this there can be no dispute.

But the circumstances and details that complete the how, why and what of this tragedy remain unknown. And the mourning of Sullivan has just begun. To insert blame into that dynamic, even as his fellow Notre Dame students celebrate the life of one of their own, seems almost offensive.

Yet, there are those who have already called for the dismissal of the school's football coach, Brian Kelly. It happened on his watch, they say. It happened adjacent to his practice field. It happened because he insisted on an outdoor workout that day. He should have known better.

Someone should have known better. But that line stretches far and beyond Kelly. And until a thorough investigation is completed and those findings made public, it's disrespectful to the memory of Sullivan to think a football coach's firing would ease a grieving family's pain. Dismissing Kelly would be a simplistic reaction to a complicated issue. It would solve nothing.

Notre Dame will likely be sued. And Notre Dame will likely pay a substantial financial price for whatever role its employees played in this accident. Somehow a conga line of lawyers will try to equate money with a life. It is an equation that can't be solved.

But that's for a sad day in the future. In the present, it should be about Sullivan, who loved his school, who adored his football team and whose incandescent smile was as familiar as the gold on the dome of ND's Main Building.

This isn't a time to blame. Not yet. Not now. Instead, it is a time to do what's right.

It would be nothing more than a gesture -- although a heartfelt one -- but the university should consider renaming those three football practice fields in memory of Sullivan. Yes, I know: The $2.5 million project was originally dedicated to Notre Dame grad Rees LaBar and his wife, Carol.

But perhaps they wouldn't mind. After all, there is a connection between the LaBars and Sullivan. According to the university's website, a LaBar grandchild is a junior at Notre Dame, the same class as Sullivan.

Decals honoring Sullivan will be placed on the back of Notre Dame's helmets when the Fighting Irish play Tulsa on Saturday. It is a small but meaningful tribute.

An even more meaningful and lasting tribute would be for the football department to establish an endowed scholarship in Sullivan's name. You get the feeling, especially after hearing the remembrances from those who knew him well, that he would like that.

It's easy to be angry and frustrated about Sullivan's death. It was so cruelly arbitrary and so unnecessary. Why him? Why now?

We've all had our personal tragedies. I had a younger sister die of cancer in her 40s and a father die of a heart attack in his early 50s. Blaming someone or something for those deaths is a wasteful convenience. Moving forward is a necessity.

There is no logic in what happened to Declan Sullivan. But it is too early to name accomplices. All we know is that we don't know. And that's not good enough to start pointing fingers.

 

[phgreek]

Remember, celebrate Declan Sullivan; Notre Dame investigation will conclude soon enough - ESPN

TT you did it again...great post...great timing.

Gene Wojciechowski has wriiten things I've disagreed with...No doubt...he is from the mother ship...No Doubt...however THIS is an example of a guy that sees whats wrong with his profession...with whats wrong with all of us. w/o calling out Whitlock he issued a pointed indictment. Without calling out those in the ND community who climbed aboard the blame train before we even burried Declan...He shamed us very effectively, and deservedly so!

I hope the boys honor Declan with their effort today...

Mr. Wojciechowski...take a bow.

 

[PapaIrish37]

Great piece by Wojo. Thanks TT for posting and phgreek for adding perspective.

Maybe for a short time this afternoon we can all take some solace from a game - a game that Declan obvioulsly loved.

RIP Declan Sullivan.

 

[jmurphy75]

If there is one thing that you can count on at ND it's their consistent way of handling situations with nothing but class and compassion. I thought the tribute at the beginning of the game was great....my wife was crying.

 

[Rack Em]

Remember, celebrate Declan Sullivan; Notre Dame investigation will conclude soon enough - ESPN

Terry my man, thanks for the post. The game's over and we're all upset with the outcome of the game, but it's so important to continue to keep the family and friends of Declan Sullivan in our thoughts and prayers.

There are things bigger than football at stake. The lives and the wellbeing of the Notre Dame family take precedent here. Thanks for being so supportive guys.