NBA Thread

[stlnd01]

If you say cunty things, don't be shocked when we call you out for it.

Tatum happens to be my nephews favorite player, grew up in StL, they've gotten to interact with him a couple times during warm-ups, including him taking the time to autograph his jersey. Everyone I know from the St Louis area says Tatum is such a good guy. Truly, one of the exceptions.

You wishing a devastating, possibly career-ending injury on him is a cunty thing to do. But I'm sure you have good reasons.

I live in Boston and, same. He’s nothing but classy, and a standup guy. Despite people always trying to drive some wedge between him and Jaylen Brown or some shit.
Can Tatum come off a little thirsty for glory? Yup. Too much hero ball at times? For sure. But he’s a good person and a great basketball player at the prime of his career. This sucks.

 

[stlnd01]

Don't agree at all. I am not some die hard NBA fan but have really enjoyed watching the Knicks this playoff and this sounds like some Pistons fan sour grapes haha. They play hard nose defense and are firmly middle of the road in free throws attempted per game. Mikal Bridges in game 1's overtime was a defensive master class.

They haven’t been getting all the calls in this series. They’re just playing tougher than the Celtics, and seem like a fun scrappy team. I say that as a Celtics fan. If this series goes the way it looks like it’s gonna, I’ll be rooting for them the rest of the way.

 

[greyhammer90]

I mean, to each their own. I think it's "so dumb" that people think a glorified three-point contest, limited defense, no physicality, and diving/flopping is a better product than physical basketball.

It's like people who hate defense in football and think "oooo, 70-63, points are shiny." Teams scoring 100+ used to actually mean something in the league. Having mid-range and post-game is way more complex than the era we are watching today where everyone just isos and jacks threes.

You can call it a glorified three point contest and say that defenses today are worse all you want, you're just exposing yourself. The prevalence of people who don't know ball in this thread goes to show that the association's biggest issue is the complete failure to educate fans on offensive/defensive schemes and calls. Fan literacy is so bad that you have guys on here unashamedly saying that they dont like today's game because they dont like "iso ball" and want more "pick and roll", when in actuality the whole thing is reversed. Pick and roll is the entire keystone of modern offensive philosophy. Its the iso and post game that's fallen out of favor because of its inefficiencies. It's embarassing how bad some of these takes are.

I think what people really get frustrated by is the fact that basketball has evolved into something with the pace of hockey. Teams today will run 4-5 actions in 10 seconds of gametime. Before, offenses would routinely take 10+ second between an action. Previously it was extremely easy for the fan at home to spot the play, but today most people have no clue what is actually happening in the moment to moment and are simply watching the ball.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

You can call it a glorified three point contest and say that defenses today are worse all you want, you're just exposing yourself. The prevalence of people who don't know ball in this thread goes to show that the association's biggest issue is the complete failure to educate fans on offensive/defensive schemes and calls. Fan literacy is so bad that you have guys on here unashamedly saying that they dont like today's game because they dont like "iso ball" and want more "pick and roll", when in actuality the whole thing is reversed. Pick and roll is the entire keystone of modern offensive philosophy. Its the iso and post game that's fallen out of favor because of its inefficiencies. It's embarassing how bad some of these takes are.

I think what people really get frustrated by is the fact that basketball has evolved into something with the pace of hockey. Teams today will run 4-5 actions in 10 seconds of gametime. Before, offenses would routinely take 10+ second between an action. Previously it was extremely easy for the fan at home to spot the play, but today most people have no clue what is actually happening in the moment to moment and are simply watching the ball.

This seems personal to you for some reason lol, or you're just highly irritable this afternoon. Juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I think it's a matter of opinion/preference, yet you're clearly agitated and making it out to be objective. The continued ratings decline seems to agree with me, but I digress. Have a better evening

 

[greyhammer90]

This seems personal to you for some reason lol, or you're just highly irritable this afternoon. Juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I think it's a matter of opinion/preference, yet you're clearly agitated and making it out to be objective. The continued ratings decline seems to agree with me, but I digress. Have a better evening

I aint even mad. If you want to say that you prefer 00s basketball, I can't argue with that (though I think you're nostalgia blinded). If you start saying objectively incorrect things, I'm going to challenge it. Too many guys in here have an axe to grind about modern basketball. I'm tired of reading the same 5 posters talk about how chess is worse than checkers because they grew up watching checkers.

Also the "ratings" argument sucks. I'd explain why but I wouldn't want you to get too worried about my evening.

 

[SDIrishFan]

I completely agree the skill is worlds better, top to bottom, than it ever has been. Not sure I buy the complexity argument. But I admit I don’t watch a ton and certainly don’t study it.

The 15-60 from three games don’t scream complexity to me. It screams shoot the first remotely open 3 I have.

I also appreciate the ultra athletes like Ant being able to get to the rack anytime he wants.

Again, just my opinion, not trying to convince u of anything.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I aint even mad. If you want to say that you prefer 00s basketball, I can't argue with that (though I think you're nostalgia blinded). If you start saying objectively incorrect things, I'm going to challenge it. Too many guys in here have an axe to grind about modern basketball. I'm tired of reading the same 5 posters talk about how chess is worse than checkers because they grew up watching checkers.

Also the "ratings" argument sucks. I'd explain why but I wouldn't want you to get too worried about my evening.

Chess is not worse than checkers, for the record

 

[Irish du Nord]

You can call it a glorified three point contest and say that defenses today are worse all you want, you're just exposing yourself. The prevalence of people who don't know ball in this thread goes to show that the association's biggest issue is the complete failure to educate fans on offensive/defensive schemes and calls. Fan literacy is so bad that you have guys on here unashamedly saying that they dont like today's game because they dont like "iso ball" and want more "pick and roll", when in actuality the whole thing is reversed. Pick and roll is the entire keystone of modern offensive philosophy. Its the iso and post game that's fallen out of favor because of its inefficiencies. It's embarassing how bad some of these takes are.

I think what people really get frustrated by is the fact that basketball has evolved into something with the pace of hockey. Teams today will run 4-5 actions in 10 seconds of gametime. Before, offenses would routinely take 10+ second between an action. Previously it was extremely easy for the fan at home to spot the play, but today most people have no clue what is actually happening in the moment to moment and are simply watching the ball.

Jokic alone provides more offensive creativity than half of the offenses of 2005

 

[Irish#1]

I hope so.

Not cool dude

 

[BabyIrish]

I feel like I have a decent eye for basketball being someone who has played and coached. I’ve watched the playoffs this year pretty regularly and do most years. I’ve done so watching through the NBA app where I watch a camera angle that shows the whole court. In no way can I say with regularity that NBA offense run 4/5 sets in 10 seconds. Can it happen from time to time sure? I’ve watched the cavs/pacers game tonight with an eye on looking for those sets. I usually see one maybe two. The four/five claims seems like a very gross overestimation.

 

[Irish#1]

He’s doing what literally every team’s leading scorer does. No different than Cade Cunningham, Donovan Mitchell, SGA, etc.

Brunson is the worst.

 

[Irish#1]

What a turnaround for the Pacers this game. Still have part of the 3rd and 4th to go, but up 8 after trailing by 19.

You can’t breathe on Mitchell. Dude is the real deal and left it all on the court.

 

[MacIrish75]

#YesCers

 

[greyhammer90]

I feel like I have a decent eye for basketball being someone who has played and coached. I’ve watched the playoffs this year pretty regularly and do most years. I’ve done so watching through the NBA app where I watch a camera angle that shows the whole court. In no way can I say with regularity that NBA offense run 4/5 sets in 10 seconds. Can it happen from time to time sure? I’ve watched the cavs/pacers game tonight with an eye on looking for those sets. I usually see one maybe two. The four/five claims seems like a very gross overestimation.

It depends on what you define as an "action" but I think when you see a routine modern pick and roll with double screens, where there are frequently ghost screens leading to pick and pop opportunities, traditional screens leading to pull up threes or pick and roll which leads to short roll passes from slashing perimeter players, etc. and these are being done on the fly against modern defenses with their incredibly flexible zones and switches... the complexity is mind boggling. You can call that one action if you want but its not the Stockton Malone pick and roll where they had all the space in the world because illegal defense rules made it so the other three offensive players could simply stand away from the basket with their hands in their pockets and force defenders to stand there with them.

People also love to forget that back then you couldn't move to actively double a player you wanted to double until that player actually had the ball, so the offensive player always had time to process where the double came from. Jordan could play weak-side, high-post iso from the triangle all game long because defenders had to stay on the strong side of the floor and couldn't run to double until he had the ball.

 

[MacIrish75]

It depends on what you define as an "action" but I think when you see a routine modern pick and roll with double screens, where there are frequently ghost screens leading to pick and pop opportunities, traditional screens leading to pull up threes or pick and roll which leads to short roll passes from slashing perimeter players, etc. and these are being done on the fly against modern defenses with their incredibly flexible zones and switches... the complexity is mind boggling. You can call that one action if you want but its not the Stockton Malone pick and roll where illegal defense rules made it so the other three players could simply stand away from the basket with their hands in their pockets and force defenders to stand there with them.

The Pacers are one of the best teams in the league in terms of running actual sets and not just deferring to iso ball. They move the ball extremely well compared to some of the rest of teams still left in the playoffs. It’s more of a “read and react” type offense. They trust Hali quite a bit to catch a screen and make a read based off of how the D plays the screen.

 

[Blazers46]

I mean, to each their own. I think it's "so dumb" that people think a glorified three-point contest, limited defense, no physicality, and diving/flopping is a better product than physical basketball.

It's like people who hate defense in football and think "oooo, 70-63, points are shiny." Teams scoring 100+ used to actually mean something in the league. Having mid-range and post-game is way more complex than the era we are watching today where everyone just isos and jacks threes.

Give me a 79-75 Pacers Knicks 90s game all day.

 

[KPENN]

 

[irish o'phile]

Knicks up 3-1 and Tatum getting a potentially devastating injury, worst possible news.

Knicks winning with that brand of basketball is just so bad for the sport, IMO. I'm not saying that other superstars don't get quick, generous whistles, but the way the Knicks and Brunson go about it, in particular, is despicable.

It's the same soft-ass game Lebron has played for years and now it's taking over the sport.

The entire league does this same stuff constantly. 95% of players are shocked and bitch whenever they are called or don’t get a call. No one’s ever done anything and they all think they get a bad whistle. I would hate to be a ref. There is exaggeration constantly when most of these guys get touched.

Nearly every fan of every team says the same thing you are saying about everyone else.

 

[BabyIrish]

It depends on what you define as an "action" but I think when you see a routine modern pick and roll with double screens, where there are frequently ghost screens leading to pick and pop opportunities, traditional screens leading to pull up threes or pick and roll which leads to short roll passes from slashing perimeter players, etc. and these are being done on the fly against modern defenses with their incredibly flexible zones and switches... the complexity is mind boggling. You can call that one action if you want but its not the Stockton Malone pick and roll where they had all the space in the world because illegal defense rules made it so the other three offensive players could simply stand away from the basket with their hands in their pockets and force defenders to stand there with them.

People also love to forget that back then you couldn't move to actively double a player you wanted to double until that player actually had the ball, so the offensive player always had time to process where the double came from. Jordan could play weak-side, high-post iso from the triangle all game long because defenders had to stay on the strong side of the floor and couldn't run to double until he had the ball.

All of what you just described, I would agree is complex and a sophisticated offense with multiple sets and actions. I just didn't see any happen that way last night on a regularity in the Cavs/Pacers game.

 

[NDRock]

It depends on what you define as an "action" but I think when you see a routine modern pick and roll with double screens, where there are frequently ghost screens leading to pick and pop opportunities, traditional screens leading to pull up threes or pick and roll which leads to short roll passes from slashing perimeter players, etc. and these are being done on the fly against modern defenses with their incredibly flexible zones and switches... the complexity is mind boggling. You can call that one action if you want but its not the Stockton Malone pick and roll where they had all the space in the world because illegal defense rules made it so the other three offensive players could simply stand away from the basket with their hands in their pockets and force defenders to stand there with them.

People also love to forget that back then you couldn't move to actively double a player you wanted to double until that player actually had the ball, so the offensive player always had time to process where the double came from. Jordan could play weak-side, high-post iso from the triangle all game long because defenders had to stay on the strong side of the floor and couldn't run to double until he had the ball.

It's funny because one of the biggest changes I see is the amount of spacing on the floor now because of ability of so many guys to hit a 3. Go watch Stockton and Malone and a lot of their pick and rolls started free throw lined extended, 18 feet from the basket with a post player underneath (along with his defender). This created a lot of 15-18 foot jump shots for both of them or shots from Malone inside the paint against a help defender. You watch last night and most of Indiana's sets start at the top of the key, 6 feet outside the 3 point line, with the other 3 guys spaced outside the 3 point line.

The modern game defiantly stresses the defense because they have to cover so much more of the court, which is entertaining to me. The Celts are the perfect example of a modern team. Space the floor, often playing 5 out, tons of 3s, switch everything on defense. Whey they're rolling on offense it's really fun to watch but when the 3s don't fall it's very frustrating and I can definitely see how people could be turned off by it. Kinda like a modern passing spread offense. When it's rolling it's awesome. When you're going 3 and out with 3 quick incompletions, everyone says to "run the damn ball".

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Those saying the league “stinks” just don’t watch basketball. In fact, I’d go so far as to say you’re full of shit. And no, I am not an Adam Silver fan. Not a Lebron fan. And I suspect some shit is definitely rigged. But some of you have nothing to stand on. There’s been some excellent basketball this playoffs.

Key.

 

[rikkitikki08]

First time in my life where I truly believe the pacers have a legit shot at the title, no lebrons or MJs in the way this time around.

 

[Katzenboyer]

First time in my life where I truly believe the pacers have a legit shot at the title, no lebrons or MJs in the way this time around.

I've been really, really impressed with them this playoff run. They're so balanced, and seemingly have an answer for everything thrown at them.

Whoever comes out of the West will be tough, but I definitely think the Pacers can win it all.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

At least four more games of Anthony Edwards. Let's Go.

 

[NDRock]

Great response by the Celts last night. Not really surprised as I think Brown relishes being the main guy. Going to be interesting season next year with him being the clear leader of the team. Tatum/Brown remind me of the KD/Russ dynamic during the OKC days. Though I would rather have Brown leading my team than Russ. Would love to see a game 7 in this series.

 

[Irish du Nord]

At least four more games of Anthony Edwards. Let's Go.

At least 8 by my count!

 

[Irish#1]

Great response by the Celts last night. Not really surprised as I think Brown relishes being the main guy. Going to be interesting season next year with him being the clear leader of the team. Tatum/Brown remind me of the KD/Russ dynamic during the OKC days. Though I would rather have Brown leading my team than Russ. Would love to see a game 7 in this series.

Celts were dialed in for sure. Brunson is good, but some of the calls he was getting were suspect.

Don't forget OKC also had Hardin to go with Durant and Westbrook.

Even with Curry playing, you can tell Minnesota is a much better team. Ant is a hell of a player. Don't know if anyone is going to slow him down.

 

[Irish#1]

It's funny because one of the biggest changes I see is the amount of spacing on the floor now because of ability of so many guys to hit a 3. Go watch Stockton and Malone and a lot of their pick and rolls started free throw lined extended, 18 feet from the basket with a post player underneath (along with his defender). This created a lot of 15-18 foot jump shots for both of them or shots from Malone inside the paint against a help defender. You watch last night and most of Indiana's sets start at the top of the key, 6 feet outside the 3 point line, with the other 3 guys spaced outside the 3 point line.

The modern game defiantly stresses the defense because they have to cover so much more of the court, which is entertaining to me. The Celts are the perfect example of a modern team. Space the floor, often playing 5 out, tons of 3s, switch everything on defense. Whey they're rolling on offense it's really fun to watch but when the 3s don't fall it's very frustrating and I can definitely see how people could be turned off by it. Kinda like a modern passing spread offense. When it's rolling it's awesome. When you're going 3 and out with 3 quick incompletions, everyone says to "run the damn ball".

The biggest change IMO can be attributed to teams making the 3 the focal point of their offense. That's the focal point of the Pacers offense, but what makes it work so well is Siakim and his mid-range game. Once the ball goes into him he's deadly if teams don't double. If they do, then it goes back out to the open man.

 

[SDIrishFan]

The foul baiting by SGA just makes him so unlikeable…

 

[ab2cmiller]

Just wait till Brunson says hold my beer tomorrow night.