All Things SCOTUS

[Irish#1]

 

[ColoradoIrish]

The cass report has quietly refuted by pretty much everyone in the medical community.

 

[ab2cmiller]

The cass report has quietly refuted by pretty much everyone in the medical community.

So your stance is that child sex-changes do prevent suicide?

 

[ColoradoIrish]

So your stance is that child sex-changes do prevent suicide?

Did I say that? I simply that the cass report has been widely discredited. These antitrans healthcare laws have directly lead to more suicide attempts.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/09/25/nx-s1-5127347/more-trans-teens-attempted-suicide-after-states-passed-anti-trans-laws-a-study-shows

 

[NorthDakota]

It's a way to differentiate in a conversation about trans people so we know what we're talking about. But agree it's a fucking weird label. I get that using voice lowering as an example seems strange but it truly messes with people struggling with this shit. What about kids who have early onset male pattern baldness caused by testosterone? Or girls hips? My whole point that I've tried making before is that these things seem minimal to anyone whose hasn't struggled with any of this. I don't expect people to understand it at all, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to just say "I don't get it and it sucks that you're struggling with it."

Completely unrealistic hypothetical situation, but let's say the premise of freaky Friday or the hot chick happened and you woke up in a body that wasn't yours. Just like in the movies, you would know something wasn't right and you would try to correct it.That's what myself and other trans people go through. Sure we can go through life and try to our best to be happy, but we know something isn't right and we just want to correct it so we can go about our lives and worry about normal shit like everyone else.

Puberty blockers allow kids a little time to figure that shit out before their bodies permanently change. Some don't transition and realize they're not trans, others do transition. It's not the same journey for each person. I don't get why allowing time to figure that out is a big deal. Why should the government have a say at all in what we do in our private lives or to our own bodies? It's a medical thing and the decision on how to treat it should be between doctors and families and no one else. It's not like kids can just consent to it without approval from their parents

Quite a lot to tackle here. Most of it is policy discussion which is generally the way people seem to approach SCOTUS stuff.

The issue SCOTUS is tackling is whether Tennessee's law violates the equal protection clause. I think it'll be 6-3. Could be 5-4. Won't be more than 7-2, Jackson and Sotomayor are not going with a conservative majority in this one.

 

[ulukinatme]

Protect the kids. There were 5700+ mastectomies and bottom surgeries done to minors between 2019 and 2023. 70% of kids change their mind about being trans by the time they reach adulthood. No life altering surgeries.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Quite a lot to tackle here. Most of it is policy discussion which is generally the way people seem to approach SCOTUS stuff.

The issue SCOTUS is tackling is whether Tennessee's law violates the equal protection clause. I think it'll be 6-3. Could be 5-4. Won't be more than 7-2, Jackson and Sotomayor are not going with a conservative majority in this one.

I agree with how the vote will go. I would just rather see the government stay out of it. I don't think government should have a say in healthcare, but that's just me. I believe medical decisions should be between Doctor and family.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Protect the kids. There were 5700+ mastectomies and bottom surgeries done to minors between 2019 and 2023. 70% of kids change their mind about being trans by the time they reach adulthood. No life altering surgeries.

Proof???

 

[ulukinatme]

Proof???

Stop The Harm Database

Hospitals across the country are putting our children at risk. Select your state and see if your hospital is endangering children.

stoptheharmdatabase.com

Article:

Over 5,700 children had gender surgeries from 2019-2023: Study

A new database from Do No Harm revealed thousands of minors had gender-affirming surgeries from 2019-2023.

san.com

"Do No Harm represents physicians, nurses, medical students, patients, and policymakers focused on keeping identity politics out of medical education, research, and clinical practice.

We believe in making healthcare better for all – not undermining it in pursuit of a political agenda. Do No Harm seeks to highlight and counteract divisive trends in medicine, such as “Diversity, Equity and Inclusion” and youth-focused gender ideology."

They compiled insurance claims across the nation from 2019 to 2023 to find 5,747 patients that got gender affirming surgery, either mastectomies or genital reassignment surgeries. There was also an additional 60,000 prescriptions written for puberty blockers and hormone therapy, but I'm not touching/concerned with those at the moment.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Stop The Harm Database

Hospitals across the country are putting our children at risk. Select your state and see if your hospital is endangering children.

stoptheharmdatabase.com

Article:

Over 5,700 children had gender surgeries from 2019-2023: Study

A new database from Do No Harm revealed thousands of minors had gender-affirming surgeries from 2019-2023.

san.com

"Do No Harm represents physicians, nurses, medical students, patients, and policymakers focused on keeping identity politics out of medical education, research, and clinical practice.

We believe in making healthcare better for all – not undermining it in pursuit of a political agenda. Do No Harm seeks to highlight and counteract divisive trends in medicine, such as “Diversity, Equity and Inclusion” and youth-focused gender ideology."

They compiled insurance claims across the nation from 2019 to 2023 to find 5,747 patients that got gender affirming surgery, either mastectomies or genital reassignment surgeries. There was also an additional 60,000 prescriptions written for puberty blockers and hormone therapy, but I'm not touching/concerned with those at the moment.

A new database revealed thousands of minors had gender-affirming surgeries from 2019-2023. The database created by Do No Harm is called “Does My Hospital Transition Kids?”

Do No Harm is a national advocacy group of medical professionals who have said they are against “woke” hospital agendas. The group aims to provide the public, policy makers and researchers with clear insights into gender-affirming care for minors.

The report found that 13,994 minors received gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy, in the five-year period.

Researchers found that from the total number, 5,747 minors had gender-affirming surgeries.

The database’s state-by-state analysis highlights California as performing the most irreversible gender surgeries on minors with 1,359. Oregon followed with 357, and then Washington with 330.

Researchers collected the data from insurance claims across the country, which totaled $119 million. They say the numbers may be underestimated due to the data not including other forms of payment including self-pay and charity.

So you either added the bit about bottom surgery or you found it somewhere else. I've posted actual research articles from unbiased sources. Nothing in the article proves your point about bottom surgeries being performed on minors. And where did you pull the 60000 number from because its not from the article. It states 13994 minors received gender affirming care including puberty blockers.

 

[drayer54]

Did I say that? I simply that the cass report has been widely discredited. These antitrans healthcare laws have directly lead to more suicide attempts.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/09/25/nx-s1-5127347/more-trans-teens-attempted-suicide-after-states-passed-anti-trans-laws-a-study-shows

This is also disputed.

I'd wager the court follows the Dobbs precedent and lets the states decide.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

This is also disputed.

I'd wager the court follows the Dobbs precedent and lets the states decide.

Healthcare shouldn't be left to to states, it should be between the doctor and patient and patients family if the kid is a minor. How are so many of anti establishment, deregulation, and pro small government but you're ok with the federal government or state government determining what medical treatment one can get? I seriously don't understand it.

 

[TorontoGold]

Stop The Harm Database

Hospitals across the country are putting our children at risk. Select your state and see if your hospital is endangering children.

stoptheharmdatabase.com

Article:

Over 5,700 children had gender surgeries from 2019-2023: Study

A new database from Do No Harm revealed thousands of minors had gender-affirming surgeries from 2019-2023.

san.com

"Do No Harm represents physicians, nurses, medical students, patients, and policymakers focused on keeping identity politics out of medical education, research, and clinical practice.

We believe in making healthcare better for all – not undermining it in pursuit of a political agenda. Do No Harm seeks to highlight and counteract divisive trends in medicine, such as “Diversity, Equity and Inclusion” and youth-focused gender ideology."

They compiled insurance claims across the nation from 2019 to 2023 to find 5,747 patients that got gender affirming surgery, either mastectomies or genital reassignment surgeries. There was also an additional 60,000 prescriptions written for puberty blockers and hormone therapy, but I'm not touching/concerned with those at the moment.

Does the database split out the gender affirming care for cisgendered kids vs trans kids?

Their entire goal seems to be the exact issue that normal people have with this type of targeting. If the goal is to remove gender affirming care entirely, it's going to end up hurting cis kids just as much as trans kids. The response will be "Well then just stop trans kids from receiving this care", well we know that health professionals will just stop offering these services entirely because of the potential litigation from having to prove that the service was provided to a cisgendered kid vs offering it to a trans kid.

So choice is - is it worth it to stop these procedures entirely to stop trans kids from receiving this treatment that will end up hurting cisgendered kids. We know that the rates of people who have intersex traits is around 1.7% and estimates of the trans population is 1.1%, so it is a punitive measure to ban these sorts of treatments for people and will hurt the non-trans people way more than the trans community.

At the end of the day, you have to choose whether to take punitive measures that will hurt non-trans kids more than trans kids. Or, leave it to the doctors and parents to decide on a treatment path.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Protect the kids. There were 5700+ mastectomies and bottom surgeries done to minors between 2019 and 2023. 70% of kids change their mind about being trans by the time they reach adulthood. No life altering surgeries.

The 70% number you posted is from a study about a decade ago from what I could find. Back when being a tomboy or just playing with toys traditional of the opposite sex would be cause for concern of gender incongruence. Standards have changed and now you have to "have feelings of being born the wrong gender". As crazy as it sounds that didn't use to be part of how someone was diagnosed. So now that things have changed with how it's diagnoses regret rate and the rate kids change their mind about being trans is no where close to 70% it's in the single digits now with updated qualifications to determining if someone is trans.

Levels of Satisfaction and Regret With Gender-Affirming Medical Care in Adolescence

This survey study examines rates of satisfaction, regret, and continuity of care in adolescents who received puberty blockers and/or gender-affirming hormones as part of gender-affirming medical care.

jamanetwork.com

 

[drayer54]

Healthcare shouldn't be left to to states, it should be between the doctor and patient and patients family if the kid is a minor. How are so many of anti establishment, deregulation, and pro small government but you're ok with the federal government or state government determining what medical treatment one can get? I seriously don't understand it.

Federal gov doesn’t have the authority and the states electing to protect children from abusive and irreversible harm are doing so for a reason.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Federal gov doesn’t have the authority and the states electing to protect children from abusive and irreversible harm are doing so for a reason.

I've agreed about things that irreversible ie surgeries. Puberty blockers are reversible and don't cause permanent long term affects.

 

[ulukinatme]

A new database revealed thousands of minors had gender-affirming surgeries from 2019-2023. The database created by Do No Harm is called “Does My Hospital Transition Kids?”

Do No Harm is a national advocacy group of medical professionals who have said they are against “woke” hospital agendas. The group aims to provide the public, policy makers and researchers with clear insights into gender-affirming care for minors.

The report found that 13,994 minors received gender-affirming care, including puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy, in the five-year period.

Researchers found that from the total number, 5,747 minors had gender-affirming surgeries.

The database’s state-by-state analysis highlights California as performing the most irreversible gender surgeries on minors with 1,359. Oregon followed with 357, and then Washington with 330.

Researchers collected the data from insurance claims across the country, which totaled $119 million. They say the numbers may be underestimated due to the data not including other forms of payment including self-pay and charity.

So you either added the bit about bottom surgery or you found it somewhere else. I've posted actual research articles from unbiased sources. Nothing in the article proves your point about bottom surgeries being performed on minors. And where did you pull the 60000 number from because its not from the article. It states 13994 minors received gender affirming care including puberty blockers.

Would Reuters suffice? They use a different analysis, but Reuters tends to be unbiased and they do their homework.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

The ultimate step in gender-affirming medical treatment is surgery, which is uncommon in patients under age 18. Some children’s hospitals and gender clinics don’t offer surgery to minors, requiring that they be adults before deciding on procedures that are irreversible and carry a heightened risk of complications.

The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.

So the study found at least 56 bottom surgeries were done from 2019 to 2021 among kids under 18. There could have been more, but yes, it is happening. Yeah most surgeries involve top surgery. Neither surgery is really reversible, and neither should be done on kids still going through puberty.

 

[Blazers46]

Healthcare shouldn't be left to to states, it should be between the doctor and patient and patients family if the kid is a minor. How are so many of anti establishment, deregulation, and pro small government but you're ok with the federal government or state government determining what medical treatment one can get? I seriously don't understand it.

Sure, government can keep their hands off… like also subsidizing ~50% of all healthcare in the US. Hands off government. We will take your money but not your input. Get serious bruh!

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Would Reuters suffice? They use a different analysis, but Reuters tends to be unbiased and they do their homework.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

So the study found at least 56 bottom surgeries were done from 2019 to 2021 among kids under 18. There could have been more, but yes, it is happening. Yeah most surgeries involve top surgery. Neither surgery is really reversible, and neither should be done on kids still going through puberty.

Thanks for sharing that article

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Sure, government can keep their hands off… like also subsidizing ~50% of all healthcare in the US. Hands off government. We will take your money but not your input. Get serious bruh!

That would accomplish what we all want is keeping the government out of healthcare and saving money. Win win for everyone

 

[ulukinatme]

The 70% number you posted is from a study about a decade ago from what I could find. Back when being a tomboy or just playing with toys traditional of the opposite sex would be cause for concern of gender incongruence. Standards have changed and now you have to "have feelings of being born the wrong gender". As crazy as it sounds that didn't use to be part of how someone was diagnosed. So now that things have changed with how it's diagnoses regret rate and the rate kids change their mind about being trans is no where close to 70% it's in the single digits now with updated qualifications to determining if someone is trans.

Levels of Satisfaction and Regret With Gender-Affirming Medical Care in Adolescence

This survey study examines rates of satisfaction, regret, and continuity of care in adolescents who received puberty blockers and/or gender-affirming hormones as part of gender-affirming medical care.

jamanetwork.com

The 70% I'm pulling from memory. I'm out of time tonight, so I'll throw you the first hit I got. Sorry it's the Daily Mail, but it references a study that was just concluded in Europe.

EXCL: Most kids grow out of desire to change sex, study suggests

Researchers from The Netherlands found one-fifth of children who are unhappy with their gender grow out of the feeling by the time they become adults, according to a 15-year study.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[NorthDakota]

I've agreed about things that irreversible ie surgeries. Puberty blockers are reversible and don't cause permanent long term affects.

You know more about this than I do but what happens if you take blockers through your teens or at what point is it no longer reversible?

I do have one friend who didn't get her period until college so I get that people develop differently

 

[ColoradoIrish]

The 70% I'm pulling from memory. I'm out of time tonight, so I'll throw you the first hit I got. Sorry it's the Daily Mail, but it references a study that was just concluded in Europe.

EXCL: Most kids grow out of desire to change sex, study suggests

Researchers from The Netherlands found one-fifth of children who are unhappy with their gender grow out of the feeling by the time they become adults, according to a 15-year study.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I appreciate you sending some articles. Like I've said I agree when it comes to surgery, especially bottom surgery. I'm not a fan of removing all medical options. I'd rather parents and doctors be the ones to work with their children on what's best for them.

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[ColoradoIrish]

You know more about this than I do but what happens if you take blockers through your teens or at what point is it no longer reversible?

I do have one friend who didn't get her period until college so I get that people develop differently

From the research I've done, I posted one of the studies about blockers, hormones and regret rate, I believe the average length of time someone is on puberty blockers is about 1.5 years. I haven't seen anything to support long term effects. Most of the long term research regarding puberty blockers is for those that experience precocious puberty as that is what they were originally developed for. I know when it comes to hormones and whether someone can have kids(both biological male and female) that they don't cause sterilization. It definitely lowers the chance, but there's numerous stories of transwomen who have been on hrt for years getting their partner pregnant. It's also not uncommon for a trans person to take hormones and then stop years later with the goal of having children. At that point the majority of physical changes will stay but sperm count does increase close to normal levels.

I know most of the concerns regarding long term use of puberty blockers is more for concerns with bone density issues and things like that. But long term use of them are highly uncommon, after the year and halfish they'll either began hrt or go through their natural puberty.

 

[Blazers46]

That would accomplish what we all want is keeping the government out of healthcare and saving money. Win win for everyone

A significant chunk of your gender confusion enabling care is paid by government. Good luck.

 

[TorontoGold]

A significant chunk of your gender confusion enabling care is paid by government. Good luck.

And a significant chunk of the costs to build the court house where your future divorce is going to take place is paid by the government. Good luck.

 

[Blazers46]

And a significant chunk of the costs to build the court house where your future divorce is going to take place is paid by the government. Good luck.

 

[NorthDakota]

And a significant chunk of the costs to build the court house where your future divorce is going to take place is paid by the government. Good luck.

Courthouses are generally already built! Very old more often than not!

 

[GATTACA!]

A significant chunk of your gender confusion enabling care is paid by government. Good luck.

All our healthcare should be paid by the government. Save us all a shit ton of money.