'25 CA WR Dylan Robinson (Washington Verbal)

[a mike]

Yeah he’s hot garbage at recruiting

The perfect combination of not being appealing to recruits on a personal level, whilst also not knowing how to manage/prioritize his targets, nor read the writing on the wall and pivot

I'm embarrassed for him

At least with Del it was just a case of being lazy

Brown is just flat out incompetent

 

[NDWarrior]

Not for nuttin’ but how are MFMF and our superstar OC Denny helping out here (or not)? Don’t they share some blame?

 

[arrowryan]

The perfect combination of not being appealing to recruits on a personal level, whilst also not knowing how to manage/prioritize his targets, nor read the writing on the wall and pivot

I'm embarrassed for him

At least with Del it was just a case of being lazy

Brown is just flat out incompetent

He’s literally the exact opposite of what MF continues to harp on in his opening PC

 

[CanadalovesND]

Personal shots aside at Brown, and perhaps his decisions not to pursue players like seemed to be quite interested in ND, like Cooper Perry and Daylan McCutcheon, schools recruited against ND aggressively. Telling a kid that "ND has had no WRs drafted since 2020" does have an impact on the athlete.

I'm not saying that's the only reason for what is likely a rather below average WR class to-date, but it's a point that is hard to ignore for a lot of the top WRs that ND is/was pursuing.

 

[a mike]

Not for nuttin’ but how are MFMF and our superstar OC Denny helping out here (or not)? Don’t they share some blame?

You can't directly/overtly criticize/question Freeman's recruiting on here--the meltdown/cognitive dissonance that ensues throws the entire planet off its axis

Much safer to keep it down at the position coach level

Plus it's not Freeman's fault anyways--its just all that pesky NIL stuff

Oh? What's that? Its been verified by several sources now that NIL isn't any issue for ND with recruits anymore?

Well okay then, it's just like Kelly's fault for not getting better WR recruits during his tenure then

It's all just out of Freeman's hands

And Denbrock is also still above reproach until the middle of the second qtr of the A&M game--then all bets are off and he's fair game

 

[IAIrish]

Personal shots aside at Brown, and perhaps his decisions not to pursue players like seemed to be quite interested in ND, like Cooper Perry and Daylan McCutcheon, schools recruited against ND aggressively. Telling a kid that "ND has had no WRs drafted since 2020" does have an impact on the athlete.

I'm not saying that's the only reason for what is likely a rather below average WR class to-date, but it's a point that is hard to ignore for a lot of the top WRs that ND is/was pursuing.

Are those Brown decisions entirely? Feels like Freeman, Bowden, and Denbrock would have authority there.

Definitely need to change that draft narrative.

 

[CanadalovesND]

Are those Brown decisions entirely? Feels like Freeman, Bowden, and Denbrock would have authority there.

Definitely need to change that draft narrative.

That’s a good point. I’m not sure how much freedom the positional coaches have in deciding who they offer or how hard they recruit that player.

But the positional coaches make their own evaluations. And likely have a lot of input in decisions.

 

[IrishLion]

You can't directly/overtly criticize/question Freeman's recruiting on here--the meltdown/cognitive dissonance that ensues throws the entire planet off its axis

Much safer to keep it down at the position coach level

Plus it's not Freeman's fault anyways--its just all that pesky NIL stuff

Oh? What's that? Its been verified by several sources now that NIL isn't any issue for ND with recruits anymore?

Well okay then, it's just like Kelly's fault for not getting better WR recruits during his tenure then

It's all just out of Freeman's hands

And Denbrock is also still above reproach until the middle of the second qtr of the A&M game--then all bets are off and he's fair game

It's totally fair to question Freeman on WR recruiting right now, both for continued results, and for his two WR coaching hires. If he is a relentless recruiter, he needs to figure out how to close on the one problem position that has plagued ND for years now.

(Blue Chip Ratio is good; overall returns on Freeman as a recruiter still overwhelmingly positive otherwise, imo)

I don't think we can judge Brown fully until we see how the '26 class shakes out. He does have a good track record of developing guys that have particular skill sets. I have hope for better on-field results both with improved QB play, and with Brown actually coaching guys.

Having said all that:



Denbrock is in the crosshairs as soon as we call a timeout to avoid a delay of game to start our first offensive series.

 

[arrowryan]

It's totally fair to question Freeman on WR recruiting right now, both for continued results, and for his two WR coaching hires. If he is a relentless recruiter, he needs to figure out how to close on the one problem position that has plagued ND for years now.

(Blue Chip Ratio is good; overall returns on Freeman as a recruiter still overwhelmingly positive otherwise, imo)

I don't think we can judge Brown fully until we see how the '26 class shakes out. He does have a good track record of developing guys that have particular skill sets. I have hope for better on-field results both with improved QB play, and with Brown actually coaching guys.

Having said all that:



Denbrock is in the crosshairs as soon as we call a timeout to avoid a delay of game to start our first offensive series.

I disagree on waiting until 2026 to judge Brown about his recruiting chops. He has had more than enough time to get his shit together 2025 recruiting.

 

[MacIrish75]

You can't directly/overtly criticize/question Freeman's recruiting on here--the meltdown/cognitive dissonance that ensues throws the entire planet off its axis

Much safer to keep it down at the position coach level

Plus it's not Freeman's fault anyways--its just all that pesky NIL stuff

Oh? What's that? Its been verified by several sources now that NIL isn't any issue for ND with recruits anymore?

Well okay then, it's just like Kelly's fault for not getting better WR recruits during his tenure then

It's all just out of Freeman's hands

And Denbrock is also still above reproach until the middle of the second qtr of the A&M game--then all bets are off and he's fair game

I mean this is just so fucking stupid.

Okay, yeah—It falls to him because he’s the HC, but what he’s really potentially guilty of is making a questionable hire for his WR coach in terms of hiring a guy that tracked decently as a developer and was questionable as a recruiter. Okay fine. I’ll agree with that.

Then you look at our biggest three WR targets. One was offered a bag *allegedly* in the realm of ridiculous and committed to USC.

One possibly wants to play defense, but ND is recruiting him as a WR and isn’t going to lie to him in order to gain his commitment.

The last is going to go to LSU who are dropping huge bags for incoming recruits.

What you choose not to acknowledge in your entire asinine post is that while ND doesn’t have an NIL problem, we still don’t play the game for incoming freshmen by giving them upfront money, rather it is projected what they could expect to earn in NIL. But again, you either don’t get that or choose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Going 0/3 on these dudes sucks, but really only one of them I’ll chalk up to a true whiff by the staff. And no, Freeman going to Alaska for X days probably wouldn’t have made a difference with at least two of them.

Also it’s mid July.

Some of you guys fucking suck.

 

[CanadalovesND]

I mean this is just so fucking stupid.

Okay, yeah—It falls to him because he’s the HC, but what he’s really potentially guilty of is making a questionable hire for his WR coach in terms of hiring a guy that tracked decently as a developer and was questionable as a recruiter. Okay fine. I’ll agree with that.

Then you look at our biggest three WR targets. One was offered a bag *allegedly* in the realm of ridiculous and committed to USC.

One possibly wants to play defense, but ND is recruiting him as a WR and isn’t going to lie to him in order to gain his commitment.

The last is going to go to LSU who are dropping huge bags for incoming recruits.

What you choose not to acknowledge in your entire asinine post is that while ND doesn’t have an NIL problem, we still don’t play the game for incoming freshmen by giving them upfront money, rather it is projected what they could expect to earn in NIL. But again, you either don’t get that or choose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Going 0/3 on these dudes sucks, but really only one of them I’ll chalk up to a true whiff by the staff. And no, Freeman going to Alaska for X days probably wouldn’t have made a difference with at least two of them.

Also it’s mid July.

Some of you guys fucking suck.

At some point, if money is a defining factor is all the top WRs recruitments, or at least the one's ND is involved with, they could lose out on every battle. With Meadows, it has been reported by some, like Driskell & Singer, that ND went aggressive with NIL to stay in the fight for Meadows. The details or extent of that other we just don't and likely won't know about. But, are they willing to do that consistently moving forward?

It's obviously very unfavourable news. But, maybe this is going to take a year. Again, most recruits want to see proof that an offense can really utilize a player of their talent, and at the end of the day, get them into a good position for the NFL.

It's a chicken or egg situation. Does ND need to get the top talent to improve WR outcome in the NFL Draft, or does ND need to show that they can take what they have and turn them into NFL picks before they can land some of the top dudes? To debate myself here, third to fifth round picks are not likely going to move the needle much in terms of setting a standard of "we will develop you, utilize you, and send you to the league." I mean, it certainly would improve the ND image a bit, but most guys want to see All-Americans and/or first & second round picks as proof.

A Top 100 or Top 50 guy is not thinking about becoming a fourth rounder. A Top 300 guy may look at that differently.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Lets keep in mind.
Apparently Robinson chose that he wanted to play defense.
It's technically on Mickens and Golden for their evaluation of him as a safety.

Or, maybe it's on Freeman for not pushing them all to recruit him as a two-way athlete?

I'm not defending Brown, but this one is a little more complicated.

 

[NDFAN2008]

I disagree on waiting until 2026 to judge Brown about his recruiting chops. He has had more than enough time to get his shit together 2025 recruiting.

How can you say he has had more than enough time. When other schools are telling our top targets we haven't had a draft pick since 2020 that isn't Browns fault, how do you suggest he overcome that? Nothing is going to change until players start seeing the product on the field this year. We need 1-2 WR's to go off

 

[PutuporShutup]

You can't directly/overtly criticize/question Freeman's recruiting on here--the meltdown/cognitive dissonance that ensues throws the entire planet off its axis

Much safer to keep it down at the position coach level

Plus it's not Freeman's fault anyways--its just all that pesky NIL stuff

Oh? What's that? Its been verified by several sources now that NIL isn't any issue for ND with recruits anymore?

Well okay then, it's just like Kelly's fault for not getting better WR recruits during his tenure then

It's all just out of Freeman's hands

And Denbrock is also still above reproach until the middle of the second qtr of the A&M game--then all bets are off and he's fair game

WRs were pretty much NEVER the issue in games under Kelly despite not recruiting them great at times. Freeman's first 2 years have had the worst WR play since 2007.

 

[arrowryan]

How can you say he has had more than enough time. When other schools are telling our top targets we haven't had a draft pick since 2020 that isn't Browns fault, how do you suggest he overcome that? Nothing is going to change until players start seeing the product on the field this year. We need 1-2 WR's to go off

By not shitting his pants during the Hall visit and by looking into other receivers. For the past few weeks, the odds have been against Notre Dame and they would likely go 0/3.

He’s also never mentioned in Meadows updates. It’s always Freeman, Denbrock, and Bowden mentioned. Brown might be a one and done.

He’s the WR coach for a top 10 team, not a non P5. It shouldn’t be this hard.

 

[PutuporShutup]

How can you say he has had more than enough time. When other schools are telling our top targets we haven't had a draft pick since 2020 that isn't Browns fault, how do you suggest he overcome that? Nothing is going to change until players start seeing the product on the field this year. We need 1-2 WR's to go off

How did we just land 2 of the top QBs in back to back years despite having next to no NFL production from our QBs over the last 10-15 years?

You frichan recruit, sell, and win.

Also, you don't hire the darn WR coach at wisconsin EVER.

 

[CanadalovesND]

Lets keep in mind.
Apparently Robinson chose that he wanted to play defense.
It's technically on Mickens and Golden for their evaluation of him as a safety.

Or, maybe it's on Freeman for not pushing them all to recruit him as a two-way athlete?

I'm not defending Brown, but this one is a little more complicated.

They offered Robinson at the end of April. Thomas, Long & Golden were in the class at that point, Zackery and Blair were trending to ND at that point. Ivan Taylor was also in the class.

The staff knew that the DB board was pretty much set in stone. Yeah, shit happened at Taylor left. But, the chips mostly fell how they wanted them to.

The WR board was in a flux. And it made sense to pursue him as a receiver, and to continue to up until the end. Robinson is likely going to be a good player at either position. ND needed him more at WR. ND didn't need him at DB. And I applaud Freeman's honesty and not changing his tune as the wind started to blow a different direction.

 

[fightingirish26]

WRs were pretty much NEVER the issue in games under Kelly despite not recruiting them great at times. Freeman's first 2 years have had the worst WR play since 2007.

??? His biggest criticism towards the end was not having talented enough wide receivers to compete against the elite teams.

 

[a mike]

What you choose not to acknowledge in your entire asinine post is that while ND doesn’t have an NIL problem, we still don’t play the game for incoming freshmen by giving them upfront money, rather it is projected what they could expect to earn in NIL. But again, you either don’t get that or choose to ignore it because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Mike Frank--literally the biggest hand-wringing worry wart pessimistic on the face of the planet has stated now at least two separate times he has no issues or concerns with ND being restricted/limited in any way with upfront money structures to recruits anymore since the recent ruling on NIL was passed down

Thank you for perfectly encapsulating the characture/example of the type of Freeman-Simp poster I was talking about

The rationalizing, blame shifting, cognitive dissonance, crying.....AMAZING

 

[stlnd01]

How did we just land 2 of the top QBs in back to back years despite having next to no NFL production from our QBs over the last 10-15 years?

You frichan recruit, sell, and win.

Also, you don't hire the darn WR coach at wisconsin EVER.

To be fair he'd only been at Wisconsin a year. Before that he was the WR coach at Cincinnati.

Each of these losses can be chalked up to various reasons but what I don't get, personally, is why we processed the kid from Ohio and passed on the kid who committed to Stanford, without knowing for certain that Meadows/Robinson/Hines were in the bag. Those were both easy wins.

 

[CanadalovesND]

How did we just land 2 of the top QBs in back to back years despite having next to no NFL production from our QBs over the last 10-15 years?

You frichan recruit, sell, and win.

Also, you don't hire the darn WR coach at wisconsin EVER.

But would you hire a CB coach from Cincinnati? Mickens wasn't much of a name until he came to ND.

It doesn't matter where someone coaches. It's how you feel about them as a teacher, as a man, and as a developer.

Brown developed dudes at Cincy. They are not NFL stars. Three players drafted in four seasons in far above where ND has been. And those guys were not upperclassmen when Brown came in. They were freshman. Meaning Brown didn't inherit an All-Conference guy. He developed the young players into professional athletes.

 

[MacIrish75]

Mike Frank--literally the biggest hand-wringing worry wart pessimistic on the face of the planet has stated now at least two separate times he has no issues or concerns with ND being restricted/limited in any way with upfront money structures to recruits anymore since the recent ruling on NIL was passed down

Thank you for perfectly encapsulating the characture/example of the type of Freeman-Simp poster I was talking about

The rationalizing, blame shifting, cognitive dissonance, crying.....AMAZING

View attachment 3056005

If being a simp means not panicking and realizing there’s nuance to recruiting wins and losses that go beyond the HC being an abject failure—then sure.

 

[a mike]

At some point, if money is a defining factor is all the top WRs recruitments, or at least the one's ND is involved with, they could lose out on every battle. With Meadows, it has been reported by some, like Driskell & Singer, that ND went aggressive with NIL to stay in the fight for Meadows. The details or extent of that other we just don't and likely won't know about. But, are they willing to do that consistently moving forward?

It's obviously very unfavourable news. But, maybe this is going to take a year. Again, most recruits want to see proof that an offense can really utilize a player of their talent, and at the end of the day, get them into a good position for the NFL.

It's a chicken or egg situation. Does ND need to get the top talent to improve WR outcome in the NFL Draft, or does ND need to show that they can take what they have and turn them into NFL picks before they can land some of the top dudes? To debate myself here, third to fifth round picks are not likely going to move the needle much in terms of setting a standard of "we will develop you, utilize you, and send you to the league." I mean, it certainly would improve the ND image a bit, but most guys want to see All-Americans and/or first & second round picks as proof.

A Top 100 or Top 50 guy is not thinking about becoming a fourth rounder. A Top 300 guy may look at that differently.

How can you say he has had more than enough time. When other schools are telling our top targets we haven't had a draft pick since 2020 that isn't Browns fault, how do you suggest he overcome that? Nothing is going to change until players start seeing the product on the field this year. We need 1-2 WR's to go off

Make sure you guys let Hartline know that it's impossible to get top flight WR prospects recruited to your program and developed into first round picks without an apparent prerequisite 25 year prior history of the school having previously produced first round draft picks

He must not have gotten the memo

The spin doctoring going on right now is next level

Only reason Freeman was hired was to produce/procure a paradigm shift in ND's recruiting and roster talent

Thus far, he's bringing up the bottom ends of his classes compared to Kelly--but doing absolutely nothing more at the top end

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

There's always one assistant coach that the message board Human Resources brigade has to have it out for.

Mike Brown, hired in December of 2023, is that man.

 

[IrishLion]

Only reason Freeman was hired was to produce/procure a paradigm shift in ND's recruiting and roster talent

Thus far, he's bringing up the bottom ends of his classes compared to Kelly--but doing absolutely nothing more at the top end

Again, blue chip ratio says otherwise. Top-end talent via recruiting is better than it was under Kelly.

You can acknowledge two things at one time: Freeman has elevated the overall talent pool, but needs to make sure WR follows suit to get this team to where it wants to go

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

There's always one assistant coach that the message board Human Resources brigade has to have it out for.

Mike Brown, hired in December of 2023, is that man.

Somewhere in SB, Al Washington is breathing a sigh of relief.

 

[a mike]

If being a simp means not panicking and realizing there’s nuance to recruiting wins and losses that go beyond the HC being an abject failure—then sure.

Your primary premise/defense for why we lost two of three targets gets shot down and this is what you respond with?

Piuos inane filler word salad?

You also listed three situations with three recruits

What's your defense for all the other WR misses/blunders in the class before these three?........I'll wait

 

[pumpdog20]

Maybe someone has messing it before, but wonder if the exodus of receivers this offseason has something to do with why we are getting the cold shoulder.

 

[MacIrish75]

Your primary premise/defense for why we lost two of three targets gets shot down and this is what you respond with?

Piuos inane filler word salad?

You also listed three situations with three recruits

What's your defense for all the other WR misses/blunders in the class before these three?........I'll wait

You mean the failures like when we got two of the best receivers out of the portal? Or Freeman’s classes which included JG/Flores or Gilbert/Cam Williams?

Shit, I wish I failed that well at my job…

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Somewhere in SB, Al Washington is breathing a sigh of relief.

I thought the exact same thing. Like the angry conch got moved from Al to Mike.