A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

DomerInHappyValley

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IrishLion said:
That shit just gave me goosebumps. THAT would have killed in the show. Would have been one of the most memorable scenes ever, and would have been a perfect conclusion to Jaime's redemption.
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That's how I felt first time I saw it on Reddit.
 
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IrishLion said:
That shit just gave me goosebumps. THAT would have killed in the show. Would have been one of the most memorable scenes ever, and would have been a perfect conclusion to Jaime's redemption.
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Yepp you stole the worlds right off my keyboard. I’m sitting here on the toilet with goosebumps lmao.
 
IrishLion

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Didn't even have to be Brienne that he pulled the sword out of! Could have been Cersei. She gets deposed during Jon/Dany's invasion/conflict, she's lost and trying to find Jaime on the field of battle, only for her to stumble upon Jaime and Brienne. She goes into a jealous rage when she realizes Jaime has turned over a completely new leaf, tries to kill Brienne, who either refuses or can't defend herself, and Jaime has to run Oathkeeper through her to save Brienne.

Two prophecies, one stone!
 
DomerInHappyValley

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IrishLion said:
Didn't even have to be Brienne that he pulled the sword out of! Could have been Cersei. She gets deposed during Jon/Dany's invasion/conflict, she's lost and trying to find Jaime on the field of battle, only for her to stumble upon Jaime and Brienne. She goes into a jealous rage when she realizes Jaime has turned over a completely new leaf, tries to kill Brienne, who either refuses or can't defend herself, and Jaime has to run Oathkeeper through her to save Brienne.

Two prophecies, one stone!
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And stuff like this is why GRRM hates fan fiction.
 
Katzenboyer

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IrishLion said:
That's what drives me most crazy about waiting for the books. There's no way GRRM lets that go out with a fizzle the way the show does. He's a brilliant writer. I want to see how he brings out the goosebumps regarding Jon's lineage and his ensuing love/conflict with Dany as the true heir.

I'm starting to believe that part of GRRM's problem with finishing the story is that he has known for a while that he has to not only bring Jon back to life pretty quickly, but he has to get Dany across the sea quickly enough for them to meet and fall in love. And we need that love story to evolve over nearly two whole books, that way his end with Jon betraying Dany at the Iron Throne has impact. He might even be building towards a legit military conflict between Jon and Dany, where they each gather loyal Westerosi lords to their cause after Cersei bites the dust, however that happens.

GRRM probably realizes it's too much to accomplish in two books after having seen the show, so he's stuck. (Not to mention the 10+ other storylines full of other shit that probably need three whole books to conclude in a satisfactory fashion.)
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I'm 1000% of the opinion that the Jon/Dany love story from the show will not be part of the conclusion of the books.

GRRM (and whoever he picks to finish it) is all about power politics and turning fantasy tropes upside down. I don't think he'd build all this up to have the "Jon and Dany fall in love, but Jon sacrifices her for the good of the realm" storyline. I think that once Jon's parentage becomes known, Dany will immediately view him as a threat and act accordingly.

I think it's far more likely that they end up fighting their own enemies as separate factions -- i.e., Jon fights the Others in the North while Dany invades the South -- which will lead to a conflict between the two for the Iron Throne (which most likely ends up with Bran serving as king in some different way).
 
IrishLion

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Katzenboyer said:
I'm 1000% of the opinion that the Jon/Dany love story from the show will not be part of the conclusion of the books.

GRRM (and whoever he picks to finish it) is all about power politics and turning fantasy tropes upside down. I don't think he'd build all this up to have the "Jon and Dany fall in love, but Jon sacrifices her for the good of the realm" storyline. I think that once Jon's parentage becomes known, Dany will immediately view him as a threat and act accordingly.

I think it's far more likely that they end up fighting their own enemies as separate factions -- i.e., Jon fights the Others in the North while Dany invades the South -- which will lead to a conflict between the two for the Iron Throne (which most likely ends up with Bran serving as king in some different way).
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That's kind of what I was (poorly) getting at.

They meet up, have feelings for eachother, but once Jon's lineage is discovered, it becomes a large-scale conflict between their supporters.

Jon will get many supporters as Ned Stark's bastard and as rightful heir... Dany will have many supporters because Dragons and Tyrion.

GRRM wants to turn fantasy tropes upside down, but he also leans on history, so setting up a Shakespearean love tragedy in the end wouldn't totally be out of the blue.

It's possible that Jon/Dany falling in love in the show was just the easiest way for theme to conflate various outlines that GRRM gave them, but we might never know if GRRM won't write lol
 
Pops Freshenmeyer

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Jiggafini19Deux said:
So I am clear, where does the last book leave off?
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Jon is still at the wall (ostensibly he was just stabbed to death), Dany is still in Mereen (I think it is), Stannis is gathering Northerners and marching on the Boltons, Sansa is with Littlefinger in the Vale, Bran is still hanging out with the children of the forest, Tommen is king.
 
IrishLion

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ShamrockOnHelmet

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What I believe is the truth is that GRRM gave the runners the overall outline of how it ends, and that’s what we saw on screen. I know thats not salacious enough for everyone to believe. I know GRRM and others have said that it’s not the case, or maybe it’s not, or whatever. Regardless, that’s what I believe happened, and what I believe his intent was to end the story.

I presume the “delay” is because he’s rethinking it after the way the audience reacted, which is a real shame. It’s times like that I wish fans didn’t have a ”voice”.
 
DomerInHappyValley

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ShamrockOnHelmet said:
What I believe is the truth is that GRRM gave the runners the overall outline of how it ends, and that’s what we saw on screen. I know thats not salacious enough for everyone to believe. I know GRRM and others have said that it’s not the case, or maybe it’s not, or whatever. Regardless, that’s what I believe happened, and what I believe his intent was to end the story.

I presume the “delay” is because he’s rethinking it after the way the audience reacted, which is a real shame. It’s times like that I wish fans didn’t have a ”voice”.
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He doesn't get to cry when at a minimum 4 people who weren't dead had a better story than Bran.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

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Very big fan of House of the Dragon so far.

Otto Hightower stole last night's episode. Great stuff.
 
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Jiggafini19Deux said:
Very big fan of House of the Dragon so far.

Otto Hightower stole last night's episode. Great stuff.
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For a second I was feeling some sympathy for him when he was dealing with Criston and Aegon. But then like what did he expect when he made Aegon King? They all knew he was a piece of shit.

The show is making the Greens so unlikable.
 
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Katzenboyer

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GATTACA! said:
For a second I was feeling som sympathy for him when he was dealing with Criston and Aegon. But then like what did he expect when he made Aegon King? They all knew he was a piece of shit.

The show is making the Greens so unlikable.
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I like the show, but that's the hardest part of the re-watch: while the Blacks are not neccesarily darlings (and Daemon, although a great character, is a POS), there's just nothing redeeming about the Greens. And Criston Cole can get f*cked sideways with a 2x4.

It's a solid, B+ show. And I do anticipate that once the fighting starts, it will get better. But in trying to highlight the "both sides aren't always good or evil," I'm really left not rooting for either side and it feels like it lessens the stakes of everything somewhat.
 
Jiggafini19Deux

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GATTACA! said:
For a second I was feeling som sympathy for him when he was dealing with Criston and Aegon. But then like what did he expect when he made Aegon King? They all knew he was a piece of shit.

The show is making the Greens so unlikable.
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It would seem that they're writing it so that the audience leans toward Rhaenyra. Which is where I'm at right now.

I thought Aegon was great in the first episode but the second belonged to Otto. I just love the comic relief of it.

Alicent: I have sinned.
Otto: I do not wish to hear of it.

I about pissed myself. Dude has just had it. LOL
 
FightingIrishLover7

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GATTACA! said:
For a second I was feeling som sympathy for him when he was dealing with Criston and Aegon. But then like what did he expect when he made Aegon King? They all knew he was a piece of shit.

The show is making the Greens so unlikable.
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Eh - I don't think that Aegon is 100% piece of shit. They thought that he was a puppet they could use. In fact, if they knew he was a POS, they never would have liked him so much...

Otto royally F'd that strategy up. He thought Aegon would be a blank tablet/puppet he could use....little did he calculate that he was a traumatized little boy who was in no way set up for the responsibility and now - understandably - Aegon is lashing out in childlike ways. His actions are shit, but he is just a broken kid....I have very little sympathy for Aegon, but there is at least a level of "I understand" with him.

Similar to Daemon and Aemond for that matter - just that they didn't get the keys to the car to crash it.
 
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FightingIrishLover7 said:
I don't think that Aegon is 100% piece of shit.
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?????

He just beat Blood to death with his bare hands. He executed dozens of rat catchers and strung them up in the public square. He enjoys watching his own adolescent bastard kids in child fighting pits. He's a total piece of shit lol.
 
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notredomer23 said:
The way they completely butchered season 2 all because Sarah Hess is broken brained is really impressive
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They certainly made some questionable decisions, but a lot of blame needs to be laid at the feet of HBO (Zaslav) too. Cutting season 2 from 10 episodes down to 8 after the scripts were already written and right before a writers strike was set to begin was about the dumbest decision you could possibly make. It forced them to basically just chop the last two episodes off and move them to next season.
 
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