Foreign Policy

[tussin]

If you set up a Palestinian state and things go well, that weakens Iran. You get the Arabs to push back into the Yemeni civil war including actual ground troops. You get the Saudis to drive the price of oil down and you crank up sanctions.

If you push into Rafah and keep going till Hamas stops existing then the war never ends and you strengthen Iran. Hamas is popping up in other places that zisrael declared victory. Just like in Iraq they can clear a neighborhood but they can't hold it

These two sets of thoughts combined are an illogical pipe dream and not a realistic outcome.

 

[PerthDomer]

These two sets of thoughts combined are an illogical pipe dream and not a realistic outcome.

My thoughts are

1. You cannot eliminate Hamas or terrorist organizations by purely military means

2. Arab states dislike Iran and Hamas/Hezbollah

3. Arab states are broadly sympathetic with the Palestinian people vis a vis Israel

4. Iran flexes its muscles via proxies in the region. It has aligned its proxies with the Palestinian cause.

5. If Hamas and the Iran axis can portray themselves as the true backer of Palestine, the Arabs can't help us without popular revolt.

6. If you set up a caretaker government run by the Arabs and generally cutting Hamas out, you neuter Iran's greatest strength.

The Arab states would love to push back on Iran's proxies in the region, but they can't do so while those proxies are seen as the only ones helping the Palestinians.

 

[tussin]

My thoughts are

1. You cannot eliminate Hamas or terrorist organizations by purely military means

6. If you set up a caretaker government run by the Arabs and generally cutting Hamas out, you neuter Iran's greatest strength.

Understood, but we have almost a century of history telling us that these two ideas are not practical in Gaza.

 

[drayer54]

Understood, but we have almost a century of history telling us that these two ideas are not practical in Gaza.

You can continue to bomb and destroy the areas shooting at you. The rockets are STILL being fired from Gaza. A government in Gaza without Hamas's influence or control is a dream. The public is sympathetic to Hamas. They know Hamas. Until Hamas is dead, they will respect and obey Hamas. This is playground politics. Whoever can beat up the other guys and has numbers is strong, gets the use of the good equipment, and has control. If you want Hamas out, you have to kill them. Peace with Hamas is unattainable. It was Hamas that decided to pick this fight.

 

[TorontoGold]

You can continue to bomb and destroy the areas shooting at you. The rockets are STILL being fired from Gaza. A government in Gaza without Hamas's influence or control is a dream. The public is sympathetic to Hamas. They know Hamas. Until Hamas is dead, they will respect and obey Hamas. This is playground politics. Whoever can beat up the other guys and has numbers is strong, gets the use of the good equipment, and has control. If you want Hamas out, you have to kill them. Peace with Hamas is unattainable. It was Hamas that decided to pick this fight.

lmao. Why wouldn't they support Hamas? They have; A government intent on killing them, taking the land of Palestinians (West Bank), and withholding basic human rights from them OR they have a militia group that is from the same religious background fighting the guys trying to kill them. There is literally no good options for Palestinians to support.

Why did West Germany prosper vs East Germany? Do you really think an authoritarian rule over a fractured society is going to lead to long term stability? How do you think ISIS became popular? Don't give radicals a breeding ground, or just nuke them and kill every single arab.

 

[Sea Turtle]

The Nakba literally explains the entire story.

Those that think being "muslim" = all the same are just not capable of understanding it (not saying you, just people in general).

They are certainly related. I guess it really starts in 1882. The US and Europe cutting off jewish immigration in 1921 exacerbated it. Then of course you get to 1947.

Good to post back and forth with you again. I know we've had words but I think you have a good heart and I learned not to shoot from the hip so much with our conversations. I'm sorry for anything hurtful I may have said to you in the past.

 

[Irish#1]

It really doesn't matter what happens in Gaza. All of the ME countries have their own idea on what is best and can never come to a consensus. Terrorist groups will continue to operate. When this war finally ends, nothing will have changed except the body count.

 

[TorontoGold]

They are certainly related. I guess it really starts in 1882. The US and Europe cutting off jewish immigration in 1921 exacerbated it. Then of course you get to 1947.

Good to post back and forth with you again. I know we've had words but I think you have a good heart and I learned not to shoot from the hip so much with our conversations. I'm sorry for anything hurtful I may have said to you in the past.

My overarching issue - why does anyone expect Lebanon/Syria etc to operate as rational actors?

Israel is the occupying force and should be held to account. Of course that's tough to do optically when Oct 7th happened. But, you don't have Oct 7th with the way Palestinians have been treated. Ending apartheid's are difficult and bloody, it's not like South Africa just sang kumbaya and decided to let the "coloureds" have equal rights.

 

[Bluto]

<iframe src="" width="640" height="480" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen="true" mozallowfullscreen="true" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Link to free full version of the documentary I mentioned above.

 

[Sea Turtle]

 

[ab2cmiller]

Shocking

 

[TorontoGold]

Thank god it was only 8,000 children instead of 14,500.

 

[calvegas04]

Thank god it was only 8,000 children instead of 14,500.

*human shields

 

[Irish#1]

Hamas lied?

While 8,000 is still a tragic number, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the number would be zero if Hamas hadn't attacked on October 7.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Hamas lied?

While 8,000 is still a tragic number, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the number would be zero if Hamas hadn't attacked on October 7.

Hamas knew that there attack was so barbaric, that Israel would have no other option but to respond with extreme force.

Hamas knew that this would result lots of innocent lives lost. Not only did they not care about those innocents, they welcomed those deaths because the ultimate goal was to try to turn the world against Israel.

Building underground bunkers, weapon depots and rocket launchers near schools and hospitals is extremely screwed up.

Hamas doesn't care about their own people, they just care about destroying Israel.

 

[drayer54]

Biden is supporting Israel by withholding aid AND intel.



These liars are shameless.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Biden is supporting Israel by withholding aid AND intel.



These liars are shameless.

So there are Americans being held hostage by Hamas leaders in their tunnels and we are withholding intel on the whereabouts of them both from Israel? The ones trying to rescue all of the hostages and capture/kill Hamas?

This is kind of the cherry on top oof the Biden Administration.

 

[drayer54]

So there are Americans being held hostage by Hamas leaders in their tunnels and we are withholding intel on the whereabouts of them both from Israel? The ones trying to rescue all of the hostages and capture/kill Hamas?

Pure Biden Administration.

Hamas has a significant constituency in the Dem party.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Hamas has a significant constituency in the Dem party.

Not just in this country. Unfortunately, the left in all of the west.

Isn't it interesting that the US media doesn't seem to care that 5 Americans have been held hostage by Hamas for 7 months? It's like they have been completely forgotten about.

 

[ulukinatme]

These liars are shameless.

Can we just abolish the position of press secretary? All they do is spew bullshit.

 

[TorontoGold]

I can not, for the life of me, believe that Tucker/Candace/Benny are becoming part of the pro-hamas Left. As we know, Hamas = Left.

 

[ulukinatme]

The aid truck getting hit seems like a mistake that Israel has owned up to and is investigating. I think you can hold Israel responsible without being necessarily pro-Hamas, right? Is that what you're getting at?

 

[Bishop2b5]

Isn't it interesting that the US media doesn't seem to care that 5 Americans have been held hostage by Hamas for 7 months? It's like they have been completely forgotten about.

It's their own fault this administration isn't trying to free them... they aren't black lesbian potheads.

 

[drayer54]

I can not, for the life of me, believe that Tucker/Candace/Benny are becoming part of the pro-hamas Left. As we know, Hamas = Left.

You're desperation to pretend this is a thing and to distract from what is happening across the country is a joke. Right wing policy is not being swayed by support for Hamas.

 

[TorontoGold]

The aid truck getting hit seems like a mistake that Israel has owned up to and is investigating. I think you can hold Israel responsible without being necessarily pro-Hamas, right? Is that what you're getting at?

That was literally my position before and I was called antisemitic lol

You're desperation to pretend this is a thing and to distract from what is happening across the country is a joke. Right wing policy is not being swayed by support for Hamas.

I just shared what leading conservative media is saying.

 

[drayer54]

I just shared what leading conservative media is saying.

Benny and Tucker are what you want conservative media to be. Benny is talking about a strategy and Tucker is borderline isolationist. The GOP is not advocating for the survival of Hamas through stopping attacks on Rafah, disrupting campuses, graduations, protests, and diminishing the blatant anti-semitism that has been on display from a large portion of the lefts voter base.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Benny and Tucker are what you want conservative media to be. Benny is talking about a strategy and Tucker is borderline isolationist. The GOP is not advocating for the survival of Hamas through stopping attacks on Rafah, disrupting campuses, graduations, protests, and diminishing the blatant anti-semitism that has been on display from a large portion of the lefts voter base.

I agree that Tucker is an isolationist. Some think Trump is. I disagree to a degree. He's more along the lines of what Peter Zeihan said we could or even should have been after ww2. What Europe thought we'd be. 'We are running half the world now so all of you pay up and we will keep your safe and keep the peace.'

 

[drayer54]

I agree that Tucker is an isolationist. Some think Trump is. I disagree to a degree. He's more along the lines of what Peter Zeihan said we could or even should have been after ww2. What Europe thought we'd be. 'We are running half the world now so all of you pay up and we will keep your safe and keep the peace.'

Right. He wasn’t afraid to demand NATO do their jobs and they laughed at him for pointing out the vulnerability with Russia. He turned Soleimani into salsa and never gave up the Red Sea.

 

[ulukinatme]

That was literally my position before and I was called antisemitic lol

Going back to Tussin's comment in October? A lot of those early reports back then turned out to be bogus misinformation. It's pretty hard to take anything Hamas reports as truth. UN just released info that the latest Hamas reported death numbers were more than double what they found in their independent investigation. We saw the hospital scandal turn out to be an inside job that was blamed on Israel, in addition to doctored AI photos to illicit sympathy. There were cries of injustice in the media some months back when Israel hit a Mosque, only to find a tunnel network down below. If the aid truck getting hit was on Israel as they seem to think, that's certainly a big fuck up that Israel needs to avoid. Otherwise I don't have much of a problem personally with how Israel is handling this. Hamas has no plans for a peaceful solution, they only have one goal and it involves wiping out the Jews. Israel has offered more than fair terms on numerous occasions, it's never enough for the other side.

 

[RDU Irish]

It's their own fault this administration isn't trying to free them... they aren't black tranny potheads.

FIFY