2025 Master Thread

[allenm5333]

I feel like we are going to see an all time high number of "mutual parting of ways" this summer

There are 4 commits off the top of my hat that I don’t think are ND championship caliber guys. 0% chance one de commits, 1 i HIGHLY doubt, 2 could see the writing on the wall

 

[PutuporShutup]

That's optimistic

It'll slot more in the 8-12 range

There's not too much star power in this class--especially compared to last year's class

This

Yeah it looks cool to be #1 now but we really haven’t landed at positions collectively who we’ve wanted other than oline. A really good player here and there but so far very disappointing at rb/wr/wde

I’m confused why we aren’t recruiting the interior dline more unless they’re already expecting burgess to slide inside

This class has a few more head scratchers than last class

I do really like the momentum of oline recruiting though

 

[Rocketman84]

Well we for some reason move on from higher ranked prospects, vice versa like most programs who pass on the lower ranked guys in favor of the higher ranked prospect! Puzzling

Based on what? Are you thinking just the staff realizing they have a legit chance on higher on the board kids and moving on from others when spots get tight?

 

[TorontoGold]

Well we for some reason move on from higher ranked prospects, vice versa like most programs who pass on the lower ranked guys in favor of the higher ranked prospect! Puzzling

Not sure that's true. Some of the bigger storylines from the past cycles.

2024 - Carter Nelson
2023 - Jackson Arnold almost setup a visit to ND when ND was looking for the Dante replacement per ISD
2022 - Walker Howard at the end, Nwankpa they didn't let up.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Yeah I agree. I mean even this list is debatable since the full staff was never bought in on Jackson Arnold, there was a couple on the staff that didn't see him as a fit and based on Carter Nelsons recruitment they might have thought something similar.

The last couple recruiting cycles we have heard from the beat this is the number the staff wants in the class but they will go up to x for the right guys so they are clearly leaving room for the studs.

It's almost like the staff doesn't realize they are actually good at recruiting.

To have three 5.6 rated WRs in this class is an absolute joke. Yes I think Terry and Burress are better than their rankings and I think Bettis is actually worse, but the odds of 1 or 2 of them becoming really good WRs is low. Then to take Hulak, Reiff, Anderson, Thurman so early is head scratching.

IT feels like for positions groups one year is high potential talent, the next year is depth. Obviously that's not how they're recruiting but this class is confusing with how they've accepted such early commitments from minimally talented players.

It looks good now due to #s so early in the cycle, but the class probably doesn't finish top 10.

 

[a mike]

It's almost like the staff doesn't realize they are actually good at recruiting.

Unpopular opinion and sacrilege but I don't know as though recruiting under Freeman has been too much different than under Kelly when just looking purely at the ending results

Still finishing kind of mid in the final rankings

Although Freeman seems to be more mindful with ensuring slots get filled/roster management

Freeman's big value proposition was bringing in top 5 class type talent and that obviously hasn't materialized

They've done a good job of getting in on some guys early that turned out to be elite (Love, Cam Williams, Bryce Young) but other than KVA and the QB spot (which quite frankly has never really an issue for ND in general over the years outside of Rees being terrible his few years) there hasn't been a whole lot of pulling out elite guys from the other elite programs

I was expecting ND to be good for a Caleb Downs or two every cycle under Freeman and that really just hasn't materialized

To have three 5.6 rated WRs in this class is an absolute joke.

I'm fine with them taking Terry because he's a little different. And sure take JBJ if feel obligated. But taking Mini Plax doesn't make sense to me if you're taking JBJ. Meadows should be in the class. And they've got to be able to pull an elite guy like Taylor from their own backyard or otherwise--what are we doing here guys?

Then to take Hulak, Reiff, Anderson, Thurman so early is head scratching.

Hulak is an okay early take type. Reiff is a good take no matter when. Thurman I could see at the time because of his potential--maybe things will pick up for him this year. Anderson definitely a headscratcher

Without finishing off with Meadows and Taylor or the like--this offensive skill class would be extremely disappointing compared to what had been built upon over the past two cycles

 

[allenm5333]

Unpopular opinion and sacrilege but I don't know as though recruiting under Freeman has been too much different than under Kelly when just looking purely at the ending results

Still finishing kind of mid in the final rankings

Although Freeman seems to be more mindful with ensuring slots get filled/roster management

Freeman's big value proposition was bringing in top 5 class type talent and that obviously hasn't materialized

They've done a good job of getting in on some guys early that turned out to be elite (Love, Cam Williams, Bryce Young) but other than KVA and the QB spot (which quite frankly has never really an issue for ND in general over the years outside of Rees being terrible his few years) there hasn't been a whole lot of pulling out elite guys from the other elite programs

I was expecting ND to be good for a Caleb Downs or two every cycle under Freeman and that really just hasn't materialized


I'm fine with them taking Terry because he's a little different. And sure take JBJ if feel obligated. But taking Mini Plax doesn't make sense to me if you're taking JBJ. Meadows should be in the class. And they've got to be able to pull an elite guy like Taylor from their own backyard or otherwise--what are we doing here guys?


Hulak is an okay early take type. Reiff is a good take no matter when. Thurman I could see at the time because of his potential--maybe things will pick up for him this year. Anderson definitely a headscratcher

Without finishing off with Meadows and Taylor or the like--this offensive skill class would be extremely disappointing compared to what had been built upon over the past two cycles

I like this and agree with most of it. IMO, the question marks are Anderson, Hulak/KIa (I think you take one, not the other and I prefer Kia), Bettis I get "why" you take him but it means a potential difference maker can't be, and I don't think Cree plays much at ND

 

[NDPhilly]

We literally do this every 3 months. Outside of the 2013 class which was full of busts, recruiting has been markedly better.

If this class didn't get a single additional commitment, it would still be better than Kelly's 2010, 2016, 2017, and 2020 classes.

 

[notredomer23]

Notre Dame looking to land top defenders, keep recruiting momentum rolling

No program in the country is further along with its recruiting class in the 2025 cycle than Notre Dame with 19 commitments on the board.

www.on3.com

A lot of positive vibes in this article per Wiltfong. Most notably, ND is at or near the top for NOB.

 

[NDMatt91]

Notre Dame looking to land top defenders, keep recruiting momentum rolling

No program in the country is further along with its recruiting class in the 2025 cycle than Notre Dame with 19 commitments on the board.

www.on3.com

A lot of positive vibes in this article per Wiltfong. Most notably, ND is at or near the top for NOB.

I really hope we get him, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Wiltfong also said we were the leader for Elijah Rushing leading up to the OV and then he basically dropped us right after he left campus.

 

[CanadalovesND]

Notre Dame looking to land top defenders, keep recruiting momentum rolling

No program in the country is further along with its recruiting class in the 2025 cycle than Notre Dame with 19 commitments on the board.

www.on3.com

A lot of positive vibes in this article per Wiltfong. Most notably, ND is at or near the top for NOB.

He's further posted on the On3 board that he doesn't expect Lange or Shanklin to be in the class. Didn't elaborate further than that at this time.

 

[NDohio]

View attachment 3055587

We literally do this every 3 months. Outside of the 2013 class which was full of busts, recruiting has been markedly better.

If this class didn't get a single additional commitment, it would still be better than Kelly's 2010, 2016, 2017, and 2020 classes.

Yeah, but, you see, this is all just data...It doesn't feel like Freeman is out recruiting Kelly...

 

[domer13]

View attachment 3055587

We literally do this every 3 months. Outside of the 2013 class which was full of busts, recruiting has been markedly better.

If this class didn't get a single additional commitment, it would still be better than Kelly's 2010, 2016, 2017, and 2020 classes.

A think two things are true.

1. In his first three years, Freeman did a much better job of taking fewer true three-star kids (89 and below on 247 Composite). This year is average so far, but his average ranking will still be higher than most Kelly classes.
2. In his first three years, Freeman had more higher ranked kids than Kelly but, other than last year, hasn't gotten that many more elite kids (97 and above). This year seems to be following this trend.

All of this is barring rankings adjustments, of course.

 

[PutuporShutup]

View attachment 3055587

We literally do this every 3 months. Outside of the 2013 class which was full of busts, recruiting has been markedly better.

If this class didn't get a single additional commitment, it would still be better than Kelly's 2010, 2016, 2017, and 2020 classes.

Yeah I really like Freemans 23 and 24 classes but I’m not as high at all on the 25 class other than oline and potentially secondary. No where near the potential of the other classes imo

 

[allenm5333]

Freeman is getting more 4 stars. We just expected a 5 star or 2 more per class and that hasn't hit yet

 

[NDPhilly]

On the DL, I view Dixon and Burgess as solid 4 star caliber players. If Dixon didnt commit so damn early, there's zero doubt in my mind that he would be a top 250 kid. OSU offered him in January so it obviously isnt bc of his Junior film.

If we are going to miss on Shanklin then we need to hit on Darren Ikinnagbon. If not, this DL class is pretty underwhelming unless someone new pops up.

 

[Big23Head]

He's further posted on the On3 board that he doesn't expect Lange or Shanklin to be in the class. Didn't elaborate further than that at this time.

ISD pod said the same thing about Lange this week.

 

[a mike]

View attachment 3055587

We literally do this every 3 months. Outside of the 2013 class which was full of busts, recruiting has been markedly better.

If this class didn't get a single additional commitment, it would still be better than Kelly's 2010, 2016, 2017, and 2020 classes.

I mean its a cool looking graph for sure and the x and y axis ranging is convenient to make the disparities look really extreme

290+ usually gets a team in the top 5

Freemans classes are in the 270s

270s usually get you in the 8-12 range

Pretty much mid and nothing that was some type of herculean effort for Kelly to achieve

Kelly would still have the highest rated class and the lowest rated classes--obviously sample size plays into that from both angles

Just think its a bit overwrought to say Freeman recruiting is "markedly better"

To me that'd be playing in the 290s

 

[NDPhilly]

I mean its a cool looking graph for sure and the x and y axis ranging is convenient to make the disparities look really extreme

290+ usually gets a team in the top 5

Freemans classes are in the 270s

270s usually get you in the 8-12 range

Pretty much mid and nothing that was some type of herculean effort for Kelly to achieve

Kelly would still have the highest rated class and the lowest rated classes--obviously sample size plays into that from both angles

Just think its a bit overwrought to say Freeman recruiting is "markedly better"

To me that'd be playing in the 290s

Kelly's average class composite was ~258 (eyeballling it), Which would have been good for the following the past few years:

2024: 17 (Freeman finish - 9)
2023: 16 (Freeman finish - 12)
2022: 12 (Freeman finish - 7)

Essentially coming in 5-6 spots better every year than the Kelly average.

 

[a mike]

Kelly's average class composite was ~258 (eyeballling it), Which would have been good for the following the past few years:

2024: 17 (Freeman finish - 9)
2023: 16 (Freeman finish - 12)
2022: 12 (Freeman finish - 7)

Essentially coming in 5-6 spots better every year than the Kelly average.

Yeah I mean we could doink around with numbers all day

My point still stands

Dot plot Kelly and Freeman's classes over the entire x and y axis range over the entire period for even say the typical top 25 range of classes

Their dots would basically be covering each other up

Their results are pretty similar in the aggregate and I wouldn't say that Freeman has been quite the game-changing recruiter thus far that we had all hoped

Freeman is much closer to Kelly than he is to the top recruiting programs

 

[NDpendent]

Kellys classes always seems to have had holes at position groups. Freeman's classes have been much more well rounded.

 

[BeauBenken]

Freeman trusts his evaluators. We take guys early that they have evaluated. Might be low on star power now but if the kids pan out who can complain?

 

[domer13]

Yeah I mean we could doink around with numbers all day

My point still stands

Dot plot Kelly and Freeman's classes over the entire x and y axis range over the entire period for even say the typical top 25 range of classes

Their dots would basically be covering each other up

Their results are pretty similar in the aggregate and I wouldn't say that Freeman has been quite the game-changing recruiter thus far that we had all hoped

Freeman is much closer to Kelly than he is to the top recruiting programs

Here you go!

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I mean its a cool looking graph for sure and the x and y axis ranging is convenient to make the disparities look really extreme

290+ usually gets a team in the top 5

Freemans classes are in the 270s

270s usually get you in the 8-12 range

Pretty much mid and nothing that was some type of herculean effort for Kelly to achieve

Kelly would still have the highest rated class and the lowest rated classes--obviously sample size plays into that from both angles

Just think its a bit overwrought to say Freeman recruiting is "markedly better"

To me that'd be playing in the 290s

Except there’s this thing called NIL that Freeman has to deal w that Kelly didn’t while at ND. Seems as if they are playing the game w transfers but not HS kids. Big difference.

 

[a mike]

Kellys classes always seems to have had holes at position groups. Freeman's classes have been much more well rounded.

I agree!!

Although Freeman seems to be more mindful with ensuring slots get filled/roster management

 

[PutuporShutup]

I mean its a cool looking graph for sure and the x and y axis ranging is convenient to make the disparities look really extreme

290+ usually gets a team in the top 5

Freemans classes are in the 270s

270s usually get you in the 8-12 range

Pretty much mid and nothing that was some type of herculean effort for Kelly to achieve

Kelly would still have the highest rated class and the lowest rated classes--obviously sample size plays into that from both angles

Just think its a bit overwrought to say Freeman recruiting is "markedly better"

To me that'd be playing in the 290s

Correct because freeman is able to take more recruits each class than Kelly could… he’s recruiting better than Kelly but only ever so slightly

 

[domer13]

Correct because freeman is able to take more recruits each class than Kelly could… he’s recruiting better than Kelly but only ever so slightly

Kelly averaged 21.5 recruits per cycle. Freeman has averaged 22.33 (although this year he will probably take more). Barely one extra guy per cycle.

 

[indianamouse]

Correct because freeman is able to take more recruits each class than Kelly could… he’s recruiting better than Kelly but only ever so slightly

Man, you'll find any excuse you can to prop up Kelly to be better than he actually was. He is what he is, very good coach but not great and an average recruiter.

 

[mrmcgrail]

Remember when Bryce Young was a 3 star after his junior year? these rankings aren't solidified yet I think this staff knows what they are doing

 

[BobbyMac]

Why do we continue to drool over 247’s Team Score?

All that matters is APR.

Freeman's crew had made huge gains the past two cycles. For '25 he's sunk back down to a more BK@ND level of 90.59