Independence

[Lberry]

West coast exposure. Lets the staff get in front of Cali kids every year in combination with USC. The school likes being associated with another highly regarded academic institution. And they suck, so it's a rivalry game where we SHOULD be guaranteed a win almost every year.

Why would we want out of that game?

1) It's boring, and all risk no reward. If we win it does nothing for us in the committee's eyes, if we lose season's over 2) If we wanted (we shouldn't) they'd play us OOC, they need us more than we need them 3) We don't rely on recruting Cali well. We have one-half starter (Rico) from Cali of all 22 starters. And there's nothing to say the Stanford game is why a guy like Rico hangs on to ND, and besides, we still play USC. 4) Stanford is nose diving at a smiliar rate to Independence. But they still get ~2 high academic, 4.5 star guys per year and ND should still view them as their biggest recruiting threat because we need 10/10 of the high academic, high athlete players. Us giving them a spotlight is the biggest boost of the year for their football program. We should walk away and let them die.

 

[GATTACA!]

1) It's boring, and all risk no reward. If we win it does nothing for us in the committee's eyes, if we lose season's over 2) If we wanted (we shouldn't) they'd play us OOC, they need us more than we need them 3) We don't rely on recruting Cali well. We have one-half starter (Rico) from Cali of all 22 starters. And there's nothing to say the Stanford game is why a guy like Rico hangs on to ND, and besides, we still play USC. 4) Stanford is nose diving at a smiliar rate to Independence. But they still get ~2 high academic, 4.5 star guys per year and ND should still view them as their biggest recruiting threat because we need 10/10 of the high academic, high athlete players. Us giving them a spotlight is the biggest boost of the year for their football program. We should walk away and let them die.

The committee is about to be irrelevant.

What risk do they pose? They’re terrible. It’s the same as any cupcake in that regard.

 

[Lberry]

The committee is about to be irrelevant.

What risk do they pose? They’re terrible. It’s the same as any cupcake in that regard.

Well the beat us too often for how shitty they are. See last year.

I also don't know the numbers, but I'd be shocked if most of our decommits aren't from Cali. And beyond that, how much time the staff has to invest to finish #2 to a Cali kid. They have a huge draw to stay put. No one has this analysis but if I had to bet the house, the ROI on time spent recruiting California is a nightmare.

 

[notredomer23]

Score 1 for independence (really just anti-ACC)...

Redditor claims to have attended the ACC fall meeting this past weekend. ND-Stanford will continue to be annual series with them in the ACC now as a 6th game. Some current ND-ACC games are going to be canceled in favor of ND-SMU and ND-Cal. Sounds like ND-Cal may be every year.

Just all gross. Joining a conference seems inevitable but please not the ACC. If they're going to be independent for football, be independent and screw this terrible conference and these terrible games.

 

[Lberry]

Score 1 for independence (really just anti-ACC)...

Redditor claims to have attended the ACC fall meeting this past weekend. ND-Stanford will continue to be annual series with them in the ACC now as a 6th game. Some current ND-ACC games are going to be canceled in favor of ND-SMU and ND-Cal.

Theyre should be a rule. If you downvote you should have something original to add to said topic. You have like 8 downvotes in this thread and no value or points added to the discussion.

Low F.

 

[notredomer23]

Theyre should be a rule. If you downvote you should have something original to add to said topic. You have like 8 downvotes in this thread and zero value or points added to the discussion.

Low F.

I have zero downvotes? Maybe add something of substance, Jacob, Koon, Irishrazor, Irishbadger, before going off the cuff.

 

[NDPhilly]

Score 1 for independence (really just anti-ACC)...

Redditor claims to have attended the ACC fall meeting this past weekend. ND-Stanford will continue to be annual series with them in the ACC now as a 6th game. Some current ND-ACC games are going to be canceled in favor of ND-SMU and ND-Cal. Sounds like ND-Cal may be every year.

Just all gross. Joining a conference seems inevitable but please not the ACC. If they're going to be independent for football, be independent and screw this terrible conference and these terrible games.

That sucks - was hoping to get out of that and rotate between them and Cal.

Effectively have 6 conference games. #Independence.

 

[Lberry]

I have zero downvotes? Maybe add something of substance, Jacob, Koon, Irishrazor, Irishbadger, before going off the cuff.

You have zero downvotes because you never actually have anything to say. More low F.

 

[notredomer23]

You have zero downvotes because you never actually have anything to say. More low F.

Coming from you, Koon, this is an honor. Way to completely derail a conversation when I actually provided a link with a lot of information. Maybe my posts are low F, but at least I'm not low T like you you bitch.

 

[Lberry]

Coming from you, Koon, this is an honor. Way to completely derail a conversation when I actually provided a link with a lot of information. Maybe my posts are low F, but at least I'm not low T like you you bitch.

Your link doesn't add anything to the topic.. "ND Stanford series will continue". In othernews, football games will begin with a kick off.

 

[notredomer23]

Your linked info is irrelevant to the topic.. "ND Stanford series will continue". In othernews, football games will begin with a kick off.

This seems like a you problem if you don’t see the relevance of ND’s ACC agreement in a topic on independence.

 

[Lberry]

This seems like a you problem if you don’t see the relevance of ND’s ACC agreement in a topic on independence.

ND has a tie in with the ACC and with Stanford joining the ACC, the ND Stanford game will continue. Thanks, I guess?

You're just here to downvote and pick a fight. My apologies for engaging.

 

[GATTACA!]

Well the beat us too often for how shitty they are. See last year.

That’s weak.

 

[notredomer23]

ND has a tie in with the ACC and with Stanford joining the ACC, the ND Stanford game will continue. Thanks, I guess?

You're just here to downvote and pick a fight. My apologies for engaging.

What a low T post.

 

[Lberry]

Back to actual discussion - "Well we need it for CA recruiting" - I looked at the past 5 classes (2019 - 2023) for ND and Michigan, a team who recruits at ND's level and obviously located just the same for someone coming from CA.

We have exactly 10 CA players signed across those 5 classes, as does Michigan. Interestingly, we have 1 starter level player come form those 10 (Foskey) and another decent player (Henderson). 4/10 transferred (Rutherford, Buchner, Devin Aupiu, Will Schweitzer) and the rest never made an impact at ND or are on pace to never do anything. 1 good player in 5 years of classes...

So I put very little credence into it giving us some substantial benefit in recruiting CA players.

 

[NDRock]

Back to actual discussion - "Well we need it for CA recruiting" - I looked at the past 5 classes (2019 - 2023) for ND and Michigan, a team who recruits at ND's level and obviously located just the same for someone coming from CA.

We have exactly 10 CA players signed across those 5 classes, as does Michigan. Interestingly, we have 1 good player come form those 10 (Foskey) and another decent player (Henderson). 4/10 transferred (Rutherford, Buchner, Devin Aupiu, Will Schweitzer) and the rest never made an impact at ND or are on pace to never do anything.

So I put very little credence into it giving us some substantial benefit in recruiting CA players.

Which conference would you like ND to join?

 

[Lberry]

Which conference would you like ND to join?

Big 10, hands down.

 

[NDohio]

Back to actual discussion - "Well we need it for CA recruiting" - I looked at the past 5 classes (2019 - 2023) for ND and Michigan, a team who recruits at ND's level and obviously located just the same for someone coming from CA.

We have exactly 10 CA players signed across those 5 classes, as does Michigan. Interestingly, we have 1 good player come form those 10 (Foskey) and another decent player (Henderson). 4/10 transferred (Rutherford, Buchner, Devin Aupiu, Will Schweitzer) and the rest never made an impact at ND or are on pace to never do anything.

So I put very little credence into it giving us some substantial benefit in recruiting CA players.

You are thinking too narrow...it's not to just recruit players from CA. The end of season game being played west of the Rockies each year gives the coaching staff a better opportunity to recruit the West Coast, not just CA.

 

[thekid33]

You are thinking too narrow...it's not to just recruit players from CA. The end of season game being played west of the Rockies each year gives the coaching staff a better opportunity to recruit the West Coast, not just CA.

A fair point. But, joining the Big 10 would almost assuredly result in a end of season game played west of the Rockies. USC one year and I'm sure we'd be able to negotiate that we always end up playing one of Washington, Oregon or UCLA the other year.

 

[Lberry]

You are thinking too narrow...it's not to just recruit players from CA. The end of season game being played west of the Rockies each year gives the coaching staff a better opportunity to recruit the West Coast, not just CA.

It's 10 vs 10 compared to Michigan for CA only players over 5 years time.

For all other Pac 12 states (CO, UT, ID, AZ, NV, WA, Hawaii), Michigan had 8 signees, ND only 7.

Needing that game to "recruit CA" or "recruit West coast" is a myth.

 

[stlnd01]

The biggest advantages to independence that I see are:

1: Our own TV contract.
2: Somewhat more schedule flexibility than we would have with nine conference games.
3: Not having to play a CCG.

1 ain’t worth what it used to be, relatively speaking.
2 is a pretty modest benefit if we continue to play USC, Navy, Stanford and five ACC teams annually.
3 is a very mixed bag as it also denies us the chance for a marquee win the day before playoff spots are decided.

That’s about it.

 

[notredomer23]

Back to actual discussion - "Well we need it for CA recruiting" - I looked at the past 5 classes (2019 - 2023) for ND and Michigan, a team who recruits at ND's level and obviously located just the same for someone coming from CA.

We have exactly 10 CA players signed across those 5 classes, as does Michigan. Interestingly, we have 1 starter level player come form those 10 (Foskey) and another decent player (Henderson). 4/10 transferred (Rutherford, Buchner, Devin Aupiu, Will Schweitzer) and the rest never made an impact at ND or are on pace to never do anything. 1 good player in 5 years of classes...

So I put very little credence into it giving us some substantial benefit in recruiting CA players.

This is why you’re such a closed minded twat that gets banned from every board he’s ever been on, multiple times, under multiple usernames. You can’t help but incite and be so sure that your shit takes you pigeonhole yourself into are 100% correct all the time, actual constructive discourse could be had. I try to engage reasonably rather than the auto-dismissiveness of others. Instead, you’re a condescending prick with what I assume is a Napoleonic complex (and certainly low testosterone, please see your doctor) that has to double and triple down on everything that brings out the worst in some great posters in every thread. Yet another thread derailed because of your tomfoolery when I try and stay out of the mud. I went from wanting the BIG to independence forever, that’s how bad you are at supporting your own points.

TL;DR: I’m stooping to your lowly level to tell you to get fucked, Koon.

 

[irishnd31]

This is why you’re such a closed minded twat that gets banned from every board he’s ever been on, multiple times, under multiple usernames. You can’t help but incite and be so sure that your shit takes you pigeonhole yourself into are 100% correct all the time, actual constructive discourse could be had. I try to engage reasonably rather than the auto-dismissiveness of others. Instead, you’re a condescending prick with what I assume is a Napoleonic complex (and certainly low testosterone, please see your doctor) that has to double and triple down on everything that brings out the worst in some great posters in every thread. Yet another thread derailed because of your tomfoolery when I try and stay out of the mud. I went from wanting the BIG to independence forever, that’s how bad you are at supporting your own points.

TL;DR: I’m stooping to your lowly level to tell you to get fucked, Koon.

Next week’s threads from Koongleberry….

Wooden spoons- too big for eating cereal?

Anyone want to buy a timeshare?

Abs Mannnnnn❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

 

[GATTACA!]

Abs Mannnnnn❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

RIP Greg Bryant

 

[Lberry]

This is why you’re such a closed minded twat that gets banned from every board he’s ever been on, multiple times, under multiple usernames. You can’t help but incite and be so sure that your shit takes you pigeonhole yourself into are 100% correct all the time, actual constructive discourse could be had. I try to engage reasonably rather than the auto-dismissiveness of others. Instead, you’re a condescending prick with what I assume is a Napoleonic complex (and certainly low testosterone, please see your doctor) that has to double and triple down on everything that brings out the worst in some great posters in every thread. Yet another thread derailed because of your tomfoolery when I try and stay out of the mud. I went from wanting the BIG to independence forever, that’s how bad you are at supporting your own points.

TL;DR: I’m stooping to your lowly level to tell you to get fucked, Koon.

If your definition of "reasonable discourse" is 8 downvotes, 12 names called, and letting us know we'll continue playing Stanford... consider being unreasonable, lol.

I've responded to every "reason" for independence in this thread with those looking for actual discussion, most recently in post #142 right above. This type of back and forth is actually valuable, not someone just screaming into a can like you are doing.

I'd down vote you but that's low F.

 

[T-Boone]

West coast exposure. Lets the staff get in front of Cali kids every year in combination with USC. The school likes being associated with another highly regarded academic institution. And they suck, so it's a rivalry game where we SHOULD be guaranteed a win almost every year.

Why would we want out of that game?

I’d probably rather us try to schedule Harvard than Stanford.

 

[notredomer23]

If your definition of "reasonable discourse" is 8 downvotes, 15 names called, and letting us know we'll continue playing Stanford... consider being unreasonable, lol. I'd down vote you but that's low F.

So you're fighting ghosts then because I did no such thing in this thread prior to you being clown nor have I in any thread in months. I actually go out of my way to read your posts when you're getting flack to see if it's warranted, and TBF to you, many times it is not, and often times tiresome that the threads get derailed like they do. The only one unreasonable at the start was you, but that's no surprise given your history.

 

[Lberry]

West coast exposure. Lets the staff get in front of Cali kids every year in combination with USC. The school likes being associated with another highly regarded academic institution. And they suck, so it's a rivalry game where we SHOULD be guaranteed a win almost every year.

Why would we want out of that game?

Sharing info now collected (post 142). Becoming more convinced it does nothing for recruting on the west coast:

It's 10 vs 10 compared to Michigan for CA only players over the past 5 classes. Going beyond CA to all other Pac 12 states (CO, UT, ID, AZ, NV, WA, Hawaii), Michigan had 8 signees, ND only 7.

 

[TorontoGold]

Back to actual discussion - "Well we need it for CA recruiting" - I looked at the past 5 classes (2019 - 2023) for ND and Michigan, a team who recruits at ND's level and obviously located just the same for someone coming from CA.

We have exactly 10 CA players signed across those 5 classes, as does Michigan. Interestingly, we have 1 starter level player come form those 10 (Foskey) and another decent player (Henderson). 4/10 transferred (Rutherford, Buchner, Devin Aupiu, Will Schweitzer) and the rest never made an impact at ND or are on pace to never do anything. 1 good player in 5 years of classes...

So I put very little credence into it giving us some substantial benefit in recruiting CA players.

Having the West Coast games is still good for having the staff all in the area so it’s a quick springboard to the recruits school/house. I think back to Merriweather being able to sit down with Rees/Kelly/Del after the Stanford game.

Not sure how much this all matters with this staff though since they mostly seem to be dogs on the trail (sans Golden). Tough to measure but also good for the staff to get on the high school campuses too.

 

[Lberry]

So you're fighting ghosts then because I did no such thing in this thread prior to you being clown nor have I in any thread in months. I actually go out of my way to read your posts when you're getting flack to see if it's warranted, and TBF to you, many times it is not, and often times tiresome that the threads get derailed like they do. The only one unreasonable at the start was you, but that's no surprise given your history.

You know what, you are 100% about the downvotes. It's "NDependent" downvoting on autopilot (attached) and I thought it was you, blamed you, and thought I was responding to him this whole time. He does this often and I thought it was him coming at me again.

I am genuinely sorry for thinking it was you.