ND- OSU post game thread

[IRISHDODGER]

Yeah that was a huge part of the hiring, allegedly. Yet I haven't heard it mentioned once since then. Maybe he is providing help behind the scenes, but I kind of doubt it.

Regardless, the consensus has always been this is Golden's last year because he wants to get back to either the NFL or a head coaching position.

Yeah it may have been a throw in attribute to make it make sense to the fan base since Golden hasn’t done much in college since his Temple days.

 

[Katzenboyer]

Shoutout to @Katzenboyer for making MBG though…View attachment 3054457

I do my best to contribute! LOL

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

what picks did henderson almost have. Brown was the one put in position to make them, not henderson. Henderson wasn't even close.

yep my bad.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Two things I think after sitting on it..

-usually after these heartbreaks, ND plays a perfect game but just comes up short but we know the other team was just better. Fuck that here... I want a rematch tomorrow, because we were the better team in my mind. Get your rematch in the playoffs and boat race the fuck out of them.

-Washington and Golden need to "resign" at the end of the season. What they did the last two plays is a fireable offense, but but how the defense played up to that point allows them to finish the year.

I agree 7/10 games we win this one. This is a solid team with a few blemishes that can be corrected or covered up. Cant have said that in the years past where we had GLARING wounds. Our starting 11 on both sides of the ball can go toe to toe with anyone I believe but depth seems to be an issue on defense.

I also agree that Golden and Washington HAVE to go this year. That is inexcusable. Last year we were nearly dead last in red zone d but this year that has been flipped 180. Now it seems we are dead last in missed tackles and defensive pressures dont seem to be hitting. Maybe that's scheme but its not a total defensive dominance we'd hope for...yet.

 

[PutuporShutup]

yep my bad.

all good, i don't think henderson is good at all, and shouldn't be out there. But Brown is always in the right spot but never makes the tackle or pick (he had one pick vs NC state).

 

[Lberry]

I'd much rather have a DC who held a loaded OSU team to 10 points for 59:59 of the game and may have been at fault for a last second package... than a DC who gave up 35 but had 11 on field at all times.

99% of the work is in the body of the game. We have no idea how the last two plays evolved, but give me the body of work versus the once in a lifetime F up.

This is easily correctable. Holding an OSU team to 17 might not happen again for years.

 

[NDFAN2008]

The defense actually played lights out and Golden's game plan worked perfectly but if we have 11 in there at end of game we most likely stop them. I'm impressed with what the defense was able to do against a top 10 offense. Bottom line tho is we gotta get better at DL/DE recruiting. If you look at our starters and 2 deep how many NFL picks do you think we have? I would say zero right now. OSU had 5-6 on their roster maybe more.

 

[Irish#1]

I have a feeling this thread is going to get a lot of posts for the next month or so.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I'd much rather have a DC who held a loaded OSU team to 10 points for 59:59 of the game and may have been at fault for a last second package... than a DC who gave up 35 but had 11 on field at all times.

99% of the work is in the body of the game. We have no idea how the last two plays evolved, but give me the body of work versus the once in a lifetime F up.

This is easily correctable. Holding an OSU team to 17 might not happen again for years.

don't disagree, but the last 3 plays of the game were as bad as a coach can do. That can't happen.

 

[Lberry]

don't disagree, but the last 3 plays of the game were as bad as a coach can do. That can't happen.

They were. But correcting 3 moments is much easier than having a plan and executing that is capable of holding OSU to freaking 17.

What's more immediate fixable? I think Golden is going to have a great 2023.

 

[NDMatt91]

I'd much rather have a DC who held a loaded OSU team to 10 points for 59:59 of the game and may have been at fault for a last second package... than a DC who gave up 35 but had 11 on field at all times.

99% of the work is in the body of the game. We have no idea how the last two plays evolved, but give me the body of work versus the once in a lifetime F up.

This is easily correctable. Holding an OSU team to 17 might not happen again for years.

My issue with keeping Golden after this year is that he's an incredibly lazy recruiter. It seems he doesn't really care that much about putting in the effort necessary to land guys that we need. With Al Washington's inconsistency on the recruiting trail I don't think we can afford keeping a coach with big recruiting issues.

If Golden is a A- DC and a C recruiter, I'd rather have a B DC who is a B recruiter, or promote Mickens and bring in a LB coach who is a B coach and a B recruiter.

 

[IrishLax]

ND drastically outplayed Ohio State and “should have” won. One less drive in a “short” game (thanks new clock rules!) and bunch of breaks that did not go our way.

For those that are unfamiliar with the chart, the very short version is that Ohio State pretty much had the third “luckiest” win of the week in terms of outcome vs expected outcome given the play on the field.

 

[Lberry]

My issue with keeping Golden after this year is that he's an incredibly lazy recruiter. It seems he doesn't really care that much about putting in the effort necessary to land guys that we need. With Al Washington's inconsistency on the recruiting trail I don't think we can afford keeping a coach with big recruiting issues.

If Golden is a A- DC and a C recruiter, I'd rather have a B DC who is a B recruiter, or promote Mickens and bring in a LB coach who is a B coach and a B recruiter.

This is fair and I'm pretty much in agreement. But Golden's results on the field thus far are not reasons to want to fire him.

 

[Giddyup]

Yeah. Shocking again NCAA sells out to corporations for more commercials. Million commercials that game

 

[IrishLion]

That's the first time ND has played an elite opponent and clearly been the better team. That's nice, after having 36 hours to cool down.

And ND wasn't just better by the eye test to us homers... advanced stats support that ND played better, and OSU's post-game win expectancy was loooooooow.

You could pick out 20 plays from the game, and if you change the outcome of any one of 20, ND likely wins. The same is not true for OSU. You can change the outcome of 20 plays for them, but there's only one play that likely changes the outcome in their favor (the shoe-string tackle on Williams before the 4th-down stop), and that's still AFTER a bunch of shit went against ND.

Disappointing that Parker waited until an obvious "RUN THE FUCKING BALL" situation to let Hartman cook. A 4-minute drill is not the time to get cute. Hopefully he learns from it.

Similarly, disappointing that Al Golden came up with an elite game plan, got his guys to execute in an elite fashion against an elite group of skill players on the other side for 3.75 quarters, and inexplicably became the dumbest DC in the history of the game for a total of like 5 plays.

Blitzing BenMo on the most-telegraphed CB blitz of all time was ugly, and didn't just make the read easy on McCord, it got the kid going, which was the opposite of what needed to happen. I get trying to confuse him at the **best/worst** time, but an obvious CB blitz ain't it. Maybe it's partly on BenMo for showing it, but that seemed intentional. Maybe it's on a different player for not filling the vacuum. Idk. I just know it starts with a poor call by the DC.

The 3rd-and-19 was trash. You had success by using pressure to keep them away from long-developing stuff for the most part, but then let them execute a long-developing concept by dropping 8 in the most crucial situation? Hindsight is 20/20, but ALL OF US were probably calling the "prevent just prevents you from winning" in the moment there.

10 players on the field for the last two plays? That's on the DC making sure his position coaches and GA's have the right personnel groups ready. Everyone wants to lambast Freeman for his shoddy reasoning for not taking a penalty, but the fact is that it's not Freeman's job to count the players prior to every play, and even though he's a defensive-minded HC, he's not a hands-on coordinator like other HC's. He's taken on the CEO role, which is why he takes the brunt of the criticism, and likely KNOWS he sounds like a fool in the presser, when really he's covering for any number of his coaches, GA's, or players.

It could be Golden not clarifying which personnel group he wanted for a unique goalline situation. It could be on him for not having a spread-goalline defense ready in general. It could be on Washington or a GA for not having a DE/DT/LB ready to go on the field. It could be on a player for not paying enough attention to the personnel grouping changing. I'd bet it's a combination of all three in a chaotic, unique situation.

It's not on Freeman in the moment, but it IS on him now to make sure they've got it worked out moving forward. I bet they already have a GA or analyst that's supposed to count the players on every play... if not, they will now lol.

 

[NDMatt91]

People are ripping the call for the screen pass on 2nd down, but if Hartman puts a little air under it instead of throwing a line drive right at the DE, the game is over and Price possibly scores a TD. There was NO ONE on that side of the field.

 

[Giddyup]

Chaotic? They’re coming out of a timeout

 

[IrishLion]

Chaotic? They’re coming out of a timeout

I get it, and it's a bad mistake for someone(s) to have made in the situation after a timeout and a substitution by OSU. I'm not absolving anyone (except for Freeman, a little bit, so come at me haters, but I'll die on the hill that it wasn't his job in the moment, as much as some want it to have been his job to count the players every play).

But the end-of-game situation was chaotic, IMO. Having come out of a timeout doesn't change the general situation or context.

 

[Giddyup]

I wish I could just shrug it off and I thought I could. But I’m even madder today maybe cause the national guys are mocking us. Probably one of the worst mistakes in ND history due to the magnitude of the game.

 

[IrishLax]

People are ripping the call for the screen pass on 2nd down, but if Hartman puts a little air under it instead of throwing a line drive right at the DE, the game is over and Price possibly scores a TD. There was NO ONE on that side of the field.

Good post, and this why it's sometimes hard to separate a play call from execution. The question we probably need to ask is: what were the odds that Hartman completes this pass? You need an uncovered RB and protection to hold up long enough for him to get open. 50%? 80%? I don't know.

 

[mango4]

People are ripping the call for the screen pass on 2nd down, but if Hartman puts a little air under it instead of throwing a line drive right at the DE, the game is over and Price possibly scores a TD. There was NO ONE on that side of the field.

I remember seeing that on the replay. There was a ton of room to that side and if it was a completed pass, game is over. Just didn't execute.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I remember seeing that on the replay. There was a ton of room to that side and if it was a completed pass, game is over. Just didn't execute.

Right so who didn’t execute? Why was thatOSUplayer allowed in that space? Scheme or OL execution? Why was Hartman pressured in the first place? So many individual things go on in any play it’s hard to blame anyone specifically. It’s literally ends up just being that that play just didn’t get completed.

 

[mango4]

Right so who didn’t execute? Why was thatOSUplayer allowed in that space? Scheme or OL execution? Why was Hartman pressured in the first place? So many individual things go on in any play it’s hard to blame anyone specifically. It’s literally ends up just being that that play just didn’t get completed.

Right, I'm not blaming anyone specifically. It could have been several players that didn't execute one of several details and it turned into an incompletion. The Ohio State player made a play too. Both things can be true.

 

[stlnd01]

Good post, and this why it's sometimes hard to separate a play call from execution. The question we probably need to ask is: what were the odds that Hartman completes this pass? You need an uncovered RB and protection to hold up long enough for him to get open. 50%? 80%? I don't know.

You also have JTT to contend with there. Five-star, #2 recruit in the country, future first round draft pick. He single-handedly blew up that play, and the play before. If they have, I dunno, Jordan Botelho playing there instead of him, Ohio State never gets the ball back.

 

[RipWheeler]

After being able to look at this through a lense of clarity and not anger or disappointment, I’m still quite optimistic this team can put together a special season. This week is make or break, however I don’t have the same feeling of pessimism I have had in years past where ND failed to show up for big games. This team just seems different.

After seeing how damn well they played for 99% of the game, I’m telling you if they play like that against uSC, Duke, Clemson etc, they are going to curb stomp those teams.

We can sit here and talk about how this isn’t a “good” OSU team all we want but the talent that team possesses top to bottom is like nothing else on the schedule.

 

[IRISHMAN]

People are ripping the call for the screen pass on 2nd down, but if Hartman puts a little air under it instead of throwing a line drive right at the DE, the game is over and Price possibly scores a TD. There was NO ONE on that side of the fiel

People are ripping the call for the screen pass on 2nd down, but if Hartman puts a little air under it instead of throwing a line drive right at the DE, the game is over and Price possibly scores a TD. There was NO ONE on that side of the field.

great screen shot of the play, it was clearly the right play call. if hartman had not been pressured as quickly it would have been most likely game over. it was nothing more than a good defensive effort by osu, sometimes the defense just wins. but man what could have been.

 

[IrishLion]

That's like their go-to play for JD. He's their slip-screen specialist. I get using it to try and put the game away... but NOT in the context of the way they were running the ball.

You can get cute if the pass game is what got you there. But if you have Estime, and Payne and Love have both been hot-hands during the game at different times, you don't need to try and outsmart an aggressive but tired defense with a killshot. Just get a first down and win the fucking game.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Man - i feel so much better than I did Saturday night.
But I can't keep thinking about all the what-ifs that game.
It just makes me feel nauseous all over again.
I feel bad for the players and coaches. Not a ton of mistakes, but the ones that happened were just so darn costly.
Overall a great performance, but the same L.

All coaches have to get the "monkey off their back" - just a year ago Freeman had to fight off Marshall and Stanford (and Cal), now lets hope this game is the turning point for him and his crew.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

NY6 or bust needs to be the goal from here on out. This team is too good to play in the Pop Tarts Bowl.

I don’t see any scenario short of absolute chaos where playoffs are in the cards now. Think the top 4 is a lock at this point:

SEC Champ
B1G Champ
PAC Champ
FSU or B12 Champ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stlnd01]

NY6 or bust needs to be the goal from here on out. This team is too good to play in the Pop Tarts Bowl.

I don’t see any scenario short of absolute chaos where playoffs are in the cards now. Think the top 4 is a lock at this point:

SEC Champ
B1G Champ
PAC Champ
FSU or B12 Champ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, what if we beat the PAC-12 champ? For instance.
Who knows. Crazy shit happens. But we need to beat Duke first.