'24 AZ S Kennedy Urlacher (ND -> SC)

[Bip Roberts]

I agree, I think Urlacher is more hybrid defender (Rover, Sniper, big Nickel, etc.) than he is a S.

McClain seems like "the guy" right now. Seems like he's the top "realistic" target at the present. Maybe that changes after visits but him and Gallegos do seem to be the best realistic targets right now.

Where I disagree, is I'd be prepared to take 4-5 S's this cycle. They simply cannot miss on numbers or talent this cycle. They need to start over recruiting the position so they have more options. And, S's offer a lot of position flex and ST's value depending on the types of athletes you bring in.

The talent isn’t there in this cycle.

 

[Luckylucci]

The talent isn’t there in this cycle.

I understand this argument and I do agree that the obvious ND targets with talent, at the S position, is low this cycle. But, from a big picture perspective, the talent is always there, just might be harder to find. Look at X Watts. I think we're about to get two years of very good S play out of him. Let's go find the next X Watts.

Also, if you plan to add 4-5 you likely end up at 3-4. They need to fill the base need, call it 3, and then keep trying to add to the position.

 

[Bip Roberts]

I understand this argument and I do agree that the obvious ND targets with talent, at the S position, is low this cycle. But, from a big picture perspective, the talent is always there, just might be harder to find. Look at X Watts. I think we're about to get two years of very good S play out of him. Let's go find the next X Watts.

Also, if you plan to add 4-5 you likely end up at 3-4. They need to fill the base need, call it 3, and then keep trying to add to the position.

ND shouldn’t be in the position where they have to find diamonds in the rough. They need proven players, like McClain.

 

[greyhammer90]

The talent isn’t there in this cycle.

ND shouldn’t be in the position where they have to find diamonds in the rough. They need proven players, like McClain.

What do you want?

 

[Luckylucci]

ND shouldn’t be in the position where they have to find diamonds in the rough. They need proven players, like McClain.

1. Every good program is tasked with finding the best possible players for their respective programs. Sometimes they don't have 4 and 5 stars attached to their names. And, sometimes as hard as we want it, the 4 and 5 star players are not coming, so we have to work harder to find the others.

2. McClain is a singular player. He has nothing to do with what I said above. They should try to land McClain, Gallegos, etc. But, they should also add more guys because the space/need is there and in the event they don't land them they aren't left with nothing.

Just like last cycle when they decided that Hillman was the only other S they were going to take to offset Bowen. Knowing what we know now (what they knew then, which makes it worse) they should've added more. They need to start over recruiting the position with both talent and "projects" until the room/classes are healthier.

 

[Armyirish47]

I understand this argument and I do agree that the obvious ND targets with talent, at the S position, is low this cycle. But, from a big picture perspective, the talent is always there, just might be harder to find. Look at X Watts. I think we're about to get two years of very good S play out of him. Let's go find the next X Watts.

Also, if you plan to add 4-5 you likely end up at 3-4. They need to fill the base need, call it 3, and then keep trying to add to the position.

I agree but I would only add 3 freshman and pluck a veteran guy if necessary. Watts for a couple more years, Shuler for a handful, Minich for spot duty, and develop the 3 young guys and hope one hits. It doesn't look like our current defense requires elite safety play and as long as you keep farming out the nickel spot to our bounty of corners I wouldn't want to tilt the safety room too far in one class.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

What do you want?

Ed Reed. Is that too much to ask?!

 

[Bip Roberts]

What do you want?

McClain
Gallegos
Lopa

 

[Bip Roberts]

1. Every good program is tasked with finding the best possible players for their respective programs. Sometimes they don't have 4 and 5 stars attached to their names. And, sometimes as hard as we want it, the 4 and 5 star players are not coming, so we have to work harder to find the others.

2. McClain is a singular player. He has nothing to do with what I said above. They should try to land McClain, Gallegos, etc. But, they should also add more guys because the space/need is there and in the event they don't land them they aren't left with nothing.

Just like last cycle when they decided that Hillman was the only other S they were going to take to offset Bowen. Knowing what we know now (what they knew then, which makes it worse) they should've added more. They need to start over recruiting the position with both talent and "projects" until the room/classes are healthier.

They’re not in a position where they can take a lot of risk at Safety. There’s certain positions like WR, RB, TE where they can take a flyer on a raw talent, but not at Safety.

 

[Luckylucci]

I agree but I would only add 3 freshman and pluck a veteran guy if necessary. Watts for a couple more years, Shuler for a handful, Minich for spot duty, and develop the 3 young guys and hope one hits. It doesn't look like our current defense requires elite safety play and as long as you keep farming out the nickel spot to our bounty of corners I wouldn't want to tilt the safety room too far in one class.

Again, just like last cycle when they had 4 committed they actually ended with 2. The cycle before that they had 2 committed and now have zero to show for it. They need to start recruiting to larger numbers to ensure they hit the base numbers.

 

[Bip Roberts]

Again, just like last cycle when they had 4 committed they actually ended with 2. The cycle before that they had 2 committed and now have zero to show for it. They need to start recruiting to larger numbers to ensure they hit the base numbers.

You also have to be conscientious about what the board looks like in the next class.

 

[irishnd31]

Turning into the "Bip's Thoughts and Opinions On ND Needs" thread.

 

[Luckylucci]

They’re not in a position where they can take a lot of risk at Safety. There’s certain positions like WR, RB, TE where they can take a flyer on a raw talent, but not at Safety.

You have this backwards which is why we are in this position. When desperate for both numbers and talent. You don't only take talent. You add the numbers expecting to find/develop the talent.

They've spent the last two cycles with narrow boards only accepting a certain type of talent. They need to broaden the search and start with a base. Nobody is saying no to McClain. These things are not mutually exclusive. You're just adding other targets in front of him so you have both.

You also have to be conscientious about what the board looks like in the next class.

Which is what they should've done last cycle and the cycle before that. I get it. But, this narrow board and selective process isn't working. What you are suggesting has created the problem. Time for a different strategy where you do both.

 

[Bip Roberts]

Turning into the "Bip's Thoughts and Opinions On ND Needs" thread.

I was asked a question and answered it. Also, it was about Safety recruiting, so it’s not like it’s completely off topic.

 

[Armyirish47]

Again, just like last cycle when they had 4 committed they actually ended with 2. The cycle before that they had 2 committed and now have zero to show for it. They need to start recruiting to larger numbers to ensure they hit the base numbers.

Agreed.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

It's not brain surgery.

The excuse that the administration is holding the program back only goes so far. There are a lot of Power Five level football players in this country. Many of those would be able to be admitted into Notre Dame to play football without any issues. This staff has to hit those guys by casting a wider net than the previous regime had done. It means maybe giving a little bit deeper look on film at some guys with Stanford and Northwestern offers perhaps. So be it.

Lucky hits the nail on the head. Hit your numbers.

 

[Bip Roberts]

It's not brain surgery.

The excuse that the administration is holding the program back only goes so far. There are a lot of Power Five level football players in this country. Many of those would be able to be admitted into Notre Dame to play football without any issues. This staff has to hit those guys by casting a wider net than the previous regime had done. It means maybe giving a little bit deeper look on film at some guys with Stanford and Northwestern offers perhaps. So be it.

Lucky hits the nail on the head. Hit your numbers.

No, that wider net is supposed to include players that were once seen as unattainable. The facts are, you’re not winning a title (or even competing) without at least one Top 5 class on your roster. What you’re suggesting is Kelly’s methodology amped up.

 

[ColinKSU]

You have this backwards which is why we are in this position. When desperate for both numbers and talent. You don't only take talent. You add the numbers expecting to find/develop the talent.

They've spent the last two cycles with narrow boards only accepting a certain type of talent. They need to broaden the search and start with a base. Nobody is saying no to McClain. These things are not mutually exclusive. You're just adding other targets in front of him so you have both.


Which is what they should've done last cycle and the cycle before that. I get it. But, this narrow board and selective process isn't working. What you are suggesting has created the problem. Time for a different strategy where you do both.

For as much love as Freeman rightfully gets as a recruiter, there’s still recruiting dead weight among his assistants.

 

[Pete]

Gallegos and Urlacher would be a fine start at safety for this class.

I assume Urlacher's NIL potential is good wherever he goes, but having his last name with the ND brand behind it probably speaks to some good money coming in right?

I’m sure his dad could hook him up with that hair restoration company

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

For as much love as Freeman rightfully gets as a recruiter, there’s still recruiting dead weight among his assistants.

Who specifically are you referring to? I'm going to guess Golden, O'Leary and Washington right off the get go. Biagi, Gino and Rudolph can't be accused of being dead weight. You are not talking about Stuckey, McCullough or Mickens and if you are you're on powerful street drugs.

Parker's role is going to be enhanced now that he's OC so that jury is still out.l

Gotta be those three then. I reserve judgement on Washington personally but I think Golden and O'Leary might be open to discussion.

 

[ColinKSU]

Who specifically are you referring to? I'm going to guess Golden, O'Leary and Washington right off the get go. Biagi, Gino and Rudolph can't be accused of being dead weight. You are not talking about Stuckey, McCullough or Mickens and if you are you're on powerful street drugs.

Parker's role is going to be enhanced now that he's OC so that jury is still out.l

Gotta be those three then. I reserve judgement on Washington personally but I think Golden and O'Leary might be open to discussion.

I was specifically referring to O’Leary, but Golden isn’t the recruiter he was during his last tour in college. But I’ve heard his name pop up more and maybe I expect more recruiting efforts out of assistants than I do coordinators.

O’Leary has been extremely underwhelming as a recruiter. Whiffed completely in ‘22, lost Bowen in ‘23 and isn’t in on needle movers at the position in ‘24 when the depth chart is going to be empty next season. You can’t say that bad recruiters don’t have a place on your staff when you have a bad recruiter on your staff. Del had to go and I can’t make a good argument for why you’d keep O’Leary.

I’m also not on Coach D3’s Fire Washington train, although his output wasn’t what I was hoping for. I’m reserving my opinion until I see how 2024 shakes out.

 

[ACamp1900]

What do you want?

All the nattys,… all the years

 

[Luckylucci]

There is no excuse for lack of numbers of this magnitude but that always seems like an organizational issue. Top down if you will.

Freeman and Bowen should've been focused for two cycles on getting the numbers at S.

I think Talent acquisition can be seen more at the position coach level.

But, in this case, there was a point in time when they called off the dogs in both 2022 and 2023 classes as far as recruiting S's goes. Highly doubtful O'Leary made that call. Likely came from above. Poor judgement. Hopefully they've learned from it.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

There is no excuse for lack of numbers of this magnitude but that always seems like an organizational issue. Top down if you will.

Freeman and Bowen should've been focused for two cycles on getting the numbers at S.

I think Talent acquisition can be seen more at the position coach level.

But, in this case, there was a point in time when they called off the dogs in both 2022 and 2023 classes as far as recruiting S's goes. Highly doubtful O'Leary made that call. Likely came from above. Poor judgement. Hopefully they've learned from it.

I think this is the part that gets past most people in the heat of the moment. In most programs the position coach recommends the offer to the coordinator. If he signs off, final say goes to the HC. The commitability (this isn't a real word) of that offer then depends on the head coach along with the final numbers in the end come December and February.

As far as Bowen goes, I have a really hard time putting that on O'Leary or anyone else on the staff. He'd had one foot out the door for so long, you saw how it was all handled when Bowen made his announcement, the soccer player girlfriend with OU, etc. Time is going to tell on that one, and if he turns out to be a first round draft pick, so be it.

O'Leary is a very young dude early in his coaching career and he's got a pretty high profile gig. Need to see more of what he can do.

I think you absolutely have to pound the pavement in your territory and at your position though. You have to love it and have a passion for it. Having seen it at the I-AA level 20 years ago, there is absolutely no choice regardless of the level you are at and especially today with so many other things going on at the P5 level. Those I-AA guys don't have the money and resources the big schools do, and they can barely chase two star guys. You're turning over every rock trying to find players. All those guys I was with are now P5 coaches in their late forties and early 50s. They got there by being recruiters. Might be O'Leary's path in the end. Certainly was part of Freeman's.

 

[Bip Roberts]

I think this is the part that gets past most people in the heat of the moment. In most programs the position coach recommends the offer to the coordinator. If he signs off, final say goes to the HC. The commitability (this isn't a real word) of that offer then depends on the head coach along with the final numbers in the end come December and February.

As far as Bowen goes, I have a really hard time putting that on O'Leary or anyone else on the staff. He'd had one foot out the door for so long, you saw how it was all handled when Bowen made his announcement, the soccer player girlfriend with OU, etc. Time is going to tell on that one, and if he turns out to be a first round draft pick, so be it.

O'Leary is a very young dude early in his coaching career and he's got a pretty high profile gig. Need to see more of what he can do.

I think you absolutely have to pound the pavement in your territory and at your position though. You have to love it and have a passion for it. Having seen it at the I-AA level 20 years ago, there is absolutely no choice regardless of the level you are at and especially today with so many other things going on at the P5 level. Those I-AA guys don't have the money and resources the big schools do, and they can barely chase two star guys. You're turning over every rock trying to find players. All those guys I was with are now P5 coaches in their late forties and early 50s. They got there by being recruiters. Might be O'Leary's path in the end. Certainly was part of Freeman's.

What’s his excuse for having a weak Safety class this yr?

 

[GowerND11]

What’s his excuse for having a weak Safety class this yr?

It's April 13th...

 

[CanadalovesND]

It's April 13th...

I think he means his targets and realistically possibilities.

Yes, it’s still April 13.

 

[Bip Roberts]

I think he means his targets and realistically possibilities.

Yes, it’s still April 13.

That’s correct. IMO, McClain is the only future stud in the group. Gallegos will be a productive college player, and the rest are suspect. That’s assuming Lane & Lopa are not realistic and Johnson isn’t going to be eligible.

 

[Luckylucci]

In ISD’s post-visit update it sounds like the visit went “very well” and he said he’s looking at end of May commitment date.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/forums/1/topics/83448

 

[notredomer23]

Tommy boy with the crystal ball to the good guys.