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NDRock

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Timing. Magic and Larry cast a shadow in the 80s. He retired and the 90s ushered in the Bad Boy Pistons, Air Jordan and the Dream Team.

I like the guy a lot. On and off the court. Once he retired, the Lakers didn't get it done again until Kobe and Shaq. He was the absolute goods.
He acted along side Gary Coleman on an episode of Different Strokes. Jordan, Magic, LeBron, etc. can't say that.
He was the best player of the 70’s, which has almost became a lost decade in NBA conversations. 60’s had Russell and Wilt, Bird and Majic in the 80’s, Jordan the 90’s, etc…70’s definitely had some interesting teams but outside of Knicks fans, it’s not held with the same reverence. As a Celtics fan I couldn’t stand Kareem but you have to give the guy his due.
 

Blazers46

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Took MJ 620 games
Took LBJ 726 games

Thats like a season and a half difference. LBJ is just collecting lifetime achievement awards.
 

CANONIZEFATHERSORIN

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damn i dont know why you guys hate lebron so much. maybe it's just a generational thing? This is my favorite ending of any basketball game ever, and maybe any sporting event with the exception of 2020 ND-Clemson

 

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Took MJ 620 games
Took LBJ 726 games

Thats like a season and a half difference. LBJ is just collecting lifetime achievement awards.
It’s called longevity. It’s another reason LeBron is the goat.
 

T-Boone

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Is it widely agreed he would have made the NFL is he went that way?
Wasn’t he all state football in Ohio?
 

TorontoGold

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Don't watch the NBA other than to check in on Nembhard, know his family pretty well and his Dad is literally Marcus Freeman-lite in terms of being a great man. If anyone ever runs into him at a Pacers game you'll be better for it. Andrew was dead set on going to Stanford and I tried pushing ND but Claude told me that Brey never reached out to get a visit setup. Nevertheless he got swindled into UF. Hope he continues to kill it.
 

Blazers46

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It’s called longevity. It’s another reason LeBron is the goat.
Longevity is because the man doesn’t ever show up to work!! The man misses about 20% of his games. We laugh at Iverson because “we want to talk about practice”, but the league doesn’t even come to work on a regular basis. My GOAT comes to work. Longevity… 😂 😂 😂
 

ulukinatme

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damn i dont know why you guys hate lebron so much. maybe it's just a generational thing? This is my favorite ending of any basketball game ever, and maybe any sporting event with the exception of 2020 ND-Clemson



You skipped the block at 3:00 too, big part of the momentum shift.
 

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Longevity is because the man doesn’t ever show up to work!! The man misses about 20% of his games. We laugh at Iverson because “we want to talk about practice”, but the league doesn’t even come to work on a regular basis. My GOAT comes to work. Longevity… 😂 😂 😂
Your goat took off two full seasons worth of games in the middle of his prime lmao. What are you talking about? Factor in sitting 147 games into those numbers and get back to me.
 

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Just ran the numbers myself this was so stupid.

Over 15 years between the regular season and playoffs LeBron played in 1,676 equal to just over 111 games per season. Jordan played in 1,251 games equal to 83 games per season 🤣🤣🤣. That's not even penalizing him for the missed games during his sabbatical. Plus LeBron lost more to the 2011-12 lockout + covid seasons than Jordan did to the 1998-99 lockout.

Talk about an all time stinker of an opinion lol.
 

greyhammer90

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Timing. Magic and Larry cast a shadow in the 80s. He retired and the 90s ushered in the Bad Boy Pistons, Air Jordan and the Dream Team.

I like the guy a lot. On and off the court. Once he retired, the Lakers didn't get it done again until Kobe and Shaq. He was the absolute goods.
He acted along side Gary Coleman on an episode of Different Strokes. Jordan, Magic, LeBron, etc. can't say that.

If we're talking overall life GOAT as in "best player and best citizen off the court" only Bill Russell and Kareem can take that argument. Bill and Kareem are just absolutely incredibly thoughtful classy people who were unbelievably dominant on the floor.
 
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greyhammer90

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damn i dont know why you guys hate lebron so much. maybe it's just a generational thing? This is my favorite ending of any basketball game ever, and maybe any sporting event with the exception of 2020 ND-Clemson



Lord that was wild. GSW felt absolutely unbeatable that year. I remember I was pacing the entire second half of that game and I didn't even have a team I was pulling for lol.
 

Blazers46

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Just ran the numbers myself this was so stupid.

Over 15 years between the regular season and playoffs LeBron played in 1,676 equal to just over 111 games per season. Jordan played in 1,251 games equal to 83 games per season 🤣🤣🤣. That's not even penalizing him for the missed games during his sabbatical. Plus LeBron lost more to the 2011-12 lockout + covid seasons than Jordan did to the 1998-99 lockout.

Talk about an all time stinker of an opinion lol.
Stupid might be a word we agree on but for different reasons. Lebron is averaging 111 games per season? That is really your argument? NBA is 82 regular season games and then 4 rounds of 7, if necessary. So what you are saying is truly remarkable. Lebron has not only NOT missed a game in his entire career but has played all 4 rounds into the NBA Finals every year while playing a 7 game series in every playoff series in every year and then found time to play one extra game, more in short seasons for shits and giggles. I think your convenient stinker math trumps my stinker opinion. 82 + 28 = 110 games possible. We can't all be good at math.

But you still miss the point. My point is my GOAT comes to work. If a player has a season-ending injury he's obviously not available and I will at least give MJ a pass for missing almost the entire 85 season since it was just that ONE TIME he broke his foot. Also can you really "miss work" if you are not even on the roster like in his first comeback season? MJ came back with 17 games left and played all 17. Your numbers are convenient but it misses the point. As an employer do you dock someone for not coming to work if they don't even work for you? I am not making an argument for being an Ironman, just pointing out that LBJ will never be my GOAT because of all the missed games with menstrual cramps. If MJ could play, he played.

MJ is tied for 4th in 82-game seasons ALL TIME. Lebron has done it once. 9 out of 15. Lebron once.... in 20 seasons.

This is hilarious because just in the regular season even with breaking his foot and playing 20 of 82 in 1985 and then even though MJ played in 17 of 17 in his comeback, but for sake of humor, we will say he played 17 of 82 they both stand at 88% of regular seasons games played. Not only that but LBJ has missed 4 playoff games, MJ NONE. Lebron has also only played in 66% of his team's games in the last 5 seasons. That's not GOAT status.

If you look at average playoff games per season LBJ averages 13 per season while MJ 12 per season. But MJ has a slightly better playoff win percentage so you tend to play fewer games when you are winning more often.
 

Irish#1

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Boy, I'm afraid to ask, but how does one objectively concur that Lebron James "needs attention"?

You're thrust into the spotlight as a junior in high school at the start of the Bush Gore Century. Attention finds you without you wanting or needing it.

Ask Kareem and Jordan. And they didn't play in the internet social media era.
I'm not going to get into a big debate, but that media production when he was leaving Cleveland and the big production when he got to Miami are a couple of examples.
 

Irish#1

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It's not just James, but I don't like when players take a day off. They signed a contract to play, but more importantly, many fans buy tickets just to see these guys when they come to their city, then get disappointed because the player is going to rest that day.

Jordan brought his lunchbox to work everyday. Don't forget the finals when he had the flu.
 

rikkitikki08

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Here is my take on Lebron

I hate his politics and his smarter than everyone else bullshit about China but I respect his game and I also respect that by all accounts he seems like a great family man who’s never put his family or himself in bad light

I was at one of the Pacers/heat playoffs games when the pacers had Paul George, lance, David west team. The Pacers were the better team that year and I watched Lebron absolutely win that game by himself.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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I'm not going to get into a big debate, but that media production when he was leaving Cleveland and the big production when he got to Miami are a couple of examples.
No shit? That bothered people?

Yeah, it was bad and he admitted it. All these many years later. What else?
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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So as of today, the West 4-5 seeds are Dallas (Kyrie) and Phoenix (KD).

The Nets are the 5 seed in the East for now.
 

Blazers46

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On top of everything else with Lebron. This is how we haters see him. Then there is his social justice charge while also defending China. Another human rights for me but not for thee guy that we need less of. You lose all credibility when you make it a point you will not "shut up and dribble" but then basically tell Daryl Morey to basically 'shut up and general manage".

 

NDRock

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On top of everything else with Lebron. This is how we haters see him. Then there is his social justice charge while also defending China. Another human rights for me but not for thee guy that we need less of. You lose all credibility when you make it a point you will not "shut up and dribble" but then basically tell Daryl Morey to basically 'shut up and general manage".


MJ would have stared a hole through the ref as he walked back to the bench and then proceed to score 12 straight points to win the game in OT.

I’m not sure how anyone who lived through the MJ era could say they would take him over Jordan. Lebron is clearly an all timer so I’m not trying to diss him, he’s just not the GOAT. IMO.
 

irishog77

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Lebron- GOAT in talent and God-given abilities. I think it's a safe argument to truly say, physically, he's the greatest of all time. Dude is ++ in size and physique, ++ vision and passing, ++ finishing, + rebounding, shooting, posting up, and defending.

But his mental and emotional make up and abilities are much closer to being as soft as butter and as fragile as an egg, rather than GOAT. Guys like MJ, Magic, Bird, Bryant, Russell, Kareem, and Duncan would run laps around him. Hell, even Dirk, Kidd, and Marion literally ate his lunch and stole his money in the finals. Despite Lebron, physically, being the alpha every single time he's walked on the court for at least 25 years, he has had a difficult time even being the alpha player on his own team.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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MJ would have stared a hole through the ref as he walked back to the bench and then proceed to score 12 straight points to win the game in OT.

I’m not sure how anyone who lived through the MJ era could say they would take him over Jordan. Lebron is clearly an all timer so I’m not trying to diss him, he’s just not the GOAT. IMO.
Different eras, different rulebooks, different coaching and front office philosophies.
 

greyhammer90

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MJ would have stared a hole through the ref as he walked back to the bench and then proceed to score 12 straight points to win the game in OT.

I’m not sure how anyone who lived through the MJ era could say they would take him over Jordan. Lebron is clearly an all timer so I’m not trying to diss him, he’s just not the GOAT. IMO.

Great example of what I'm talking about. You know often MJ complained to the refs and then would later lose the game right? This is something that happened. What you've just done is invent a fictional scenario for MJ to look good in. Like he's a comic book character. Like how children do.

I really wish I could've watched the MJ that exists on message boards. He would've been unbelievable. I only got to watch the real MJ. He was pretty amazing too.

The sad thing is that I'm probably going to be doing the same thing with Lebron stans in 15 years. Maybe not though. Unlike MJ every single missed shot Lebron's ever had is up on youtube. That might curb the weird mythology thing.
 

NDRock

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Great example of what I'm talking about. You know often MJ complained to the refs and then would later lose the game right? This is something that happened. What you've just done is invent a fictional scenario for MJ to look good in. Like he's a comic book character. Like how children do.

I really wish I could've watched the MJ that exists on message boards. He would've been unbelievable. I only got to watch the real MJ. He was pretty amazing too.

The sad thing is that I'm probably going to be doing the same thing with Lebron stans in 15 years. Maybe not though. Unlike MJ every single missed shot Lebron's ever had is up on youtube. That might curb the weird mythology thing.
Everything from our youth was always better. You have to at least admit Lebron can be whiny. He looked ridiculous at the end of that game.
 

Blazers46

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Lebron- GOAT in talent and God-given abilities. I think it's a safe argument to truly say, physically, he's the greatest of all time. Dude is ++ in size and physique, ++ vision and passing, ++ finishing, + rebounding, shooting, posting up, and defending.

But his mental and emotional make up and abilities are much closer to being as soft as butter and as fragile as an egg, rather than GOAT. Guys like MJ, Magic, Bird, Bryant, Russell, Kareem, and Duncan would run laps around him. Hell, even Dirk, Kidd, and Marion literally ate his lunch and stole his money in the finals. Despite Lebron, physically, being the alpha every single time he's walked on the court for at least 25 years, he has had a difficult time even being the alpha player on his own team.
Jokic is 279lb, Embiid is 275, Lebron is very close at 255. You would never know it with how soft he is.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Yeah, no shit. We all know this but it’s fun to argue about no matter the sport.
Easy killer. I thought that's kind of what I was doing.

Sure, it's fun, and what's also fun is pointing out how much the game has changed in the last 25 years even if it's fairly obvious. It's always good to remind people that there was no zone defense in the NBA back in the 90s, for example. Keeps the discussion fresh. And accurate.

Jordan offensively in the post hand check era. Also, Jordan defending in the post hand check era. Interesting to imagine.

Laimbeer, Mahorn, Anthony Mason and Xavier McDaniel power slamming LeBron, Luka, Joker and KD for not so much as a foul...Not so much
 
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greyhammer90

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Everything from our youth was always better. You have to at least admit Lebron can be whiny. He looked ridiculous at the end of that game.
Sure. I'm not a Lebron lover. I find myself defending him a ton because everyone loses all perspective with him. He's not perfect. But he's basically the most hyped player of all time, and by all metrics has exceed the hype placed upon him. Other than a bad China take, he's basically untouchable from a personal perspective (so of course suddenly everyone is a pearl clutcher about his China take).

By all accounts he has an insane work ethic, ridiculous BB IQ, has been the face of the NBA for decades, hasn't had a single notable scandal despite being the public spotlight since he was 16, spent years as one of the most available stars in the NBA from a minutes perspective, is well liked by his teammates, is a 4x champion, 4x FMVP, 4x MVP, the all-time leading scorer, and will end as the #2 in assists. But people want to believe he's soft because he makes this face:

mj-crying-face-png-black-and-white-download-lebron-crying-face-funny-humor-meme-basketball-cavs-11562892795iafxsdm5j8.png
 
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