2023 Transfer QB

[Dale]

Against Michigan in 2019 Book went 8/25 for 73yrds. It was in the rain but he's had his share of games where he shit the bed pretty badly.

in the rain, when the whole team shit bed, very much the exception, much better competition.

 

[Justin574]

Pyne’s had 3 straight games completing 50% or less with 151, 205 and 116 yards against sub par competition.



Like Philly said, all of our eyes know this is a ridiculous comparison to even entertain.

Against USC that same year he went 17/32 for 165yrds...That's very Drew Pyne like if you will. I don't see any reason Book blows Pyne out of the water to the point where the two can't even be compared. He was better overall sure, but that's only after Pyne’s started 6 games so it's hard to say without assuming Pyne doesn't improve at all moving forward. He may or may not, at this point who knows for sure.

 

[Dale]

Against USC that same year he went 17/32 for 165yrds...That's very Drew Pyne like if you will. I don't see any reason Book blows Pyne out of the water to the point where the two can't even be compared. He was better overall sure, but that's only after Pyne’s started 6 games so it's hard to say without assuming Pyne doesn't improve at all moving forward. He may or may not, at this point who knows for sure.

Book ran for 50 yards and a TD that game. He made some crucial third downs.

I can’t tell if this is a devils advocate thing or real belief. If you watched that game you know he wasn’t Drew Pyne like. Was he perfect? No but it’s still not even close IMO.

 

[Justin574]

Book ran for 50 yards and a TD that game. He made some crucial third downs.

I can’t tell if this is a devils advocate thing or real belief. If you watched that game you know he wasn’t Drew Pyne like. Was he perfect? No but it’s still not even close IMO.

Sorry, I don't see why rushing for 50yrds makes the idea that Book was superior to Pyne anymore feasible. They both had similar ups and downs depending on the game and competition, and Pyne's only started 6 total games. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Book was just out of his league to the point that comparisons are ridiculous

 

[Dale]

Sorry, I don't see why rushing for 50yrds makes the idea that Book was superior to Pyne anymore feasible.

Did you watch the game? It was rather important. Late 4Q TD to seal the W. It was literally a designed run. Books running ability kinda does make a large difference. Imagine if Pyne scrambled against all the drop 8 he saw Saturday. We’re just gonna erase Book’s rushing ability from his value?

 

[Justin574]

Did you watch the game? It was rather important. Late 4Q TD to seal the W. It was literally a designed run. Books running ability kinda does make a large difference. Imagine if Pyne scrambled against all the drop 8 he saw Saturday. We’re just gonna erase Book’s rushing ability from his value?

I've watched every ND game for the last 10yrs or so...doesn't change the fact that they've both had games where they looked like they shredded the competition and then games where they completed around 50% of their passes for ~150yrds. Like I said, unless you assume Pyne's hit his ceiling at 50% and 150yrds per game, there's just not enough to go off of tto suggest that Book's out of his league.

 

[Justin574]

Did you watch the game? It was rather important. Late 4Q TD to seal the W. It was literally a designed run. Books running ability kinda does make a large difference. Imagine if Pyne scrambled against all the drop 8 he saw Saturday. We’re just gonna erase Book’s rushing ability from his value?

And I'm not eliminating his rushing value, but 50yrds is not that impressive as far as rushing value goes. Pyne rushed for 30yrds on 10yrds per carry against UNLV. If he rushed it 2 more times he would've tied the Book rushing stat you cited.

 

[BoredIrish]

I'd tamper with Cam Rising or Devin Leary if Ruggiero doesn't bring Sam Hartman with him..

Or better yet... Max Duggan since Garrett Riley's the next OC...

In all seriousness, Hank Bachmeier's already reached out about joining the Irish next year. Well he probably has, right?

I'm sure NBC will show where DJU's dad is sitting on Saturday at least 15 times.

Maybe someone needs to stop by and talk to him... maybe buy him a beer or something.

 

[Justin574]

Did you watch the game? It was rather important. Late 4Q TD to seal the W. It was literally a designed run. Books running ability kinda does make a large difference. Imagine if Pyne scrambled against all the drop 8 he saw Saturday. We’re just gonna erase Book’s rushing ability from his value?

I also don't think Pyne's benefitting from an OC that is able to utilize his strengths and avoid his weaknesses, whereas Book did have a pretty decent OC in that regard in Chip and BK doing his babysitting job

 

[Dale]

And I'm not eliminating his rushing value, but 50yrds is not that impressive as far as rushing value goes. Pyne rushed for 30yrds on 10yrds per carry against UNLV. If he rushed it 2 more times he would've tied the Book rushing stat you cited.

 

[Justin574]

View attachment 3051775

Lol are you saying 20 more yards rushing is what made Book superior that game? I mean we only have 6 games to go off of here bro, so it's pretty much a 1 to 1 game comparison

 

[Me2SouthBend]

i see were back to rotating user names

Let me guess… Canon was once DoucheLac and previously was the idiot Koon.

 

[nsisk157]

View attachment 3051775

You’re saying everything I’m thinking, culminating with that wonderfully selected Zoolander meme.

 

[Justin574]

I'd tamper with Cam Rising or Devin Leary if Ruggiero doesn't bring Sam Hartman with him..

Or better yet... Max Duggan since Garrett Riley's the next OC...

In all seriousness, Hank Bachmeier's already reached out about joining the Irish next year. Well he probably has, right?

Ruggerio is actually who I'd like to see as the next OC. I wouldn't be mad if it were Riley but Ruggerio's experience is a huge bonus with the young ND staff.

 

[ulukinatme]

And I'm not eliminating his rushing value, but 50yrds is not that impressive as far as rushing value goes. Pyne rushed for 30yrds on 10yrds per carry against UNLV. If he rushed it 2 more times he would've tied the Book rushing stat you cited.

Bro, did you just compare USC and UNLV?

 

[PANDFAN]

You don't like any of them or just Bachmeier?

sorry just hank is a no go

 

[Irishdrunk]

I think w Kelly as a HC he would have gotten more out of Pyne, too. But then again, Kelly got a transfer down at LSU so he likely would have gotten another transfer at ND this year. Of course, the ND faithful would have gone nuts on him for doing so.

 

[Justin574]

Bro, did you just compare USC and UNLV

Not at all, I compared two QBs and their performance. If you want to break down the teams they faced in specific games go ahead. It won't change my point, Pyne's only started 6 games and his performances have mimicked Book’s in many ways, with huge swings of highs and lows. Neither QB is impressive to me and I don't see Book as clearly head and shoulders above Pyne at this point. Maybe if Pyne's 50% completion rate for 150-200yrds continues throughout the rest of the season, but there's simply not enough to go off of now.

 

[Justin574]

I think w Kelly as a HC he would have gotten more out of Pyne, too. But then again, Kelly got a transfer down at LSU so he likely would have gotten another transfer at ND this year. Of course, the ND faithful would have gone nuts on him for doing so.

Yea that's another aspect to this, Book benefitted from not having Tommy run the entire show on offense while Pyne hasn't. Pyne will never be an elite QB, but a simplified offensive scheme would go a long way in making him not appear as if he's completely lost out there.

 

[NDMatt91]

I think w Kelly as a HC he would have gotten more out of Pyne, too. But then again, Kelly got a transfer down at LSU so he likely would have gotten another transfer at ND this year. Of course, the ND faithful would have gone nuts on him for doing so.

I actually supported bringing in Coan last year and was hoping they'd be open to taking a grad transfer this year provided that the right one came along. I think the reason people would be frustrated had Kelly brought in, say, a Slovis or Daniels, is because his boy wasn't doing a good job evaluating QB's and he wouldn't have opted to bring in a new OC.

 

[FWIrish4]

I actually supported bringing in Coan last year and was hoping they'd be open to taking a grad transfer this year provided that the right one came along. I think the reason people would be frustrated had Kelly brought in, say, a Slovis or Daniels, is because his boy wasn't doing a good job evaluating QB's and he wouldn't have opted to bring in a new OC.

Uh no. We’d be pissed because those two are statistically worse than Pyne. The schtick of degrading Rees is blinding you.

Passing Efficiency Ratings: Pyne (52nd), JT Daniels (87th) and Kevin Slovis (96th). Check it out here: NCAA College Football FBS Stats | NCAA.com

 

[rtrn2glory]

Uh no. We’d be pissed because those two are statistically worse than Pyne. The schtick of degrading Rees is blinding you.

Passing Efficiency Ratings: Pyne (52nd), JT Daniels (87th) and Kevin Slovis (96th). Check it out here: NCAA College Football FBS Stats | NCAA.com

I take that stat with a grain of salt TBH. I think it shows that maybe Rees isn't a terrible playcaller, but he is terrible at recruiting QB's and developing them. I think you put Daniels in our system with our Tight Ends and running game he'd be much better. Slovis too for that matter.

 

[Irish4life]

What if you get JR year Hank?

252/401 ..... 63% ..... 3079 yds ..... 20 TD / 8 Int ..... 140 passer rating?

I'm concerned about taking a player from a G5 team and asking them to start for a P5 team. If we're going to take a chance on someone, I'd rather it be the QB that's had elite production as a starting QB for a P5 program like Brennan Armstrong. If we can't convince Leary that a year in SB will help his draft stock..... no italics.

 

[Luckylucci]

A significant part of Ian Book's value was his ability to use his legs. Different than a Wimbush or Kizer who would house it from 40+ yards out. Book would pick up a lot of first downs, keep the team ahead of the chains with his legs, or score in the RZ. Book had 13 rushing Td's over his last two seasons. Also, had over 1,000 yards rushing during that time. That's significant contribution to team success and wins.

I think folks see Book and as a little white guy and think he must have been a really accurate passer which is how he was so successful. Book was fairly average throwing the ball. His career comp pct. was 63.8%. That's not very good. His 2020 season was 64.6% which would put him 50th nationally this season. His ability to create with his legs is certainly something that separates him from someone like Drew Pyne.

 

[Justin574]

A significant part of Ian Book's value was his ability to use his legs. Different than a Wimbush or Kizer who would house it from 40+ yards out. Book would pick up a lot of first downs, keep the team ahead of the chains with his legs, or score in the RZ. Book had 13 rushing Td's over his last two seasons. Also, had over 1,000 yards rushing during that time. That's significant contribution to team success and wins.

I think folks see Book and as a little white guy and think he must have been a really accurate passer which is how he was so successful. Book was fairly average throwing the ball. His career comp pct. was 63.8%. That's not very good. His 2020 season was 64.6% which would put him 50th nationally this season. His ability to create with his legs is certainly something that separates him from someone like Drew Pyne.

I think everyone knew he could run, not really a secret. His rushing mixed with his ability to turn things into a backyard football game were probably his most well known attributes. But he wasn't Michael Vick or even Brandon Wimbush in that regard. And in many ways, it actually became known as something that hurt his overall development as a QB and the team's performance because he'd bail out of a clean pocket knowing he might be able to make a play with his legs, but missing an easy pitch and catch down the field at the same time. Or he'd bail under pressure but fail to keep his eyes down the field. And this is actually one thing I like about Pyne, when he takes off to run he doesn't immediately bail on the pass. I don't think anyone's saying he's not better than Pyne, but no one attribute he has stands out to me as making him so much better overall that it's just impossible to draw comparisons between the two. I'd rate Pyne as a below average college QB and Book as an average college QB, there's a difference but I personally don't think it's as big as some people are chalking it up to be.

 

[ulukinatme]

I take that stat with a grain of salt TBH. I think it shows that maybe Rees isn't a terrible playcaller, but he is terrible at recruiting QB's and developing them. I think you put Daniels in our system with our Tight Ends and running game he'd be much better. Slovis too for that matter.

One backup QB failing to excel this year is hardly evidence of being terrible at developing QBs. The starting QBs preformed just fine in prior years. Recruiting is another matter, but we've seen changes in that area since BK left so some of that is likely on him.

 

[Luckylucci]

I think everyone knew he could run, not really a secret. His rushing mixed with his ability to turn things into a backyard football game were probably his most well known attributes. But he wasn't Michael Vick or even Brandon Wimbush in that regard. And in many ways, it actually became known as something that hurt his overall development as a QB and the team's performance because he'd bail out of a clean pocket knowing he might be able to make a play with his legs, but missing an easy pitch and catch down the field at the same time. Or he'd bail under pressure but fail to keep his eyes down the field. And this is actually one thing I like about Pyne, when he takes off to run he doesn't immediately bail on the pass. I don't think anyone's saying he's not better than Pyne, but no one attribute he has stands out to me as making him so much better overall that it's just impossible to draw comparisons between the two. I'd rate Pyne as a below average college QB and Book as an average college QB, there's a difference but I personally don't think it's as big as some people are chalking it up to be.

Respectfully, I think you're being disingenuous with regards to the facts and impacts of those facts. Pyne through 6 full games as starter has 100 yards rushing and ZERO rushing TD's. He's averaging 17 yards/game and has no points to show for it. While Book, over his last 25 games, averaged 41yds/game and scored 13 times. Book was good for a few more first downs/game with his legs and a score, every other game. That's significantly better. In 2020, Book ran for over 50 yards, 5 times. Through 6 games, Pyne has never eclipsed 50 yards rushing. Pyne's high output is 30. Book's in 2020 was 85. None of these are remotely the same.

If so far this season Pyne had doubled his rushing output while scoring 3 rushing TD's, and had 50+ yards rushing in 1/3 of the games, Notre Dame football is likely in a much better spot.

 

[irishff1014]

Respectfully, I think you're being disingenuous with regards to the facts and impacts of those facts. Pyne through 6 full games as starter has 100 yards rushing and ZERO rushing TD's. He's averaging 17 yards/game and has no points to show for it. While Book, over his last 25 games, averaged 41yds/game and scored 13 times. Book was good for a few more first downs/game with his legs and a score, every other game. That's significantly better. In 2020, Book ran for over 50 yards, 5 times. Through 6 games, Pyne has never eclipsed 50 yards rushing. Pyne's high output is 30. Book's in 2020 was 85. None of these are remotely the same.

If so far this season Pyne had doubled his rushing output while scoring 3 rushing TD's, and had 50+ yards rushing in 1/3 of the games, Notre Dame football is likely in a much better spot.

Book wasn’t the most talented but damn he was a gamer.

 

[tko]

Maybe we get a Pyne QB draw for a TD like Rees vs Michigan

 

[Justin574]

Respectfully, I think you're being disingenuous with regards to the facts and impacts of those facts. Pyne through 6 full games as starter has 100 yards rushing and ZERO rushing TD's. He's averaging 17 yards/game and has no points to show for it. While Book, over his last 25 games, averaged 41yds/game and scored 13 times. Book was good for a few more first downs/game with his legs and a score, every other game. That's significantly better. In 2020, Book ran for over 50 yards, 5 times. Through 6 games, Pyne has never eclipsed 50 yards rushing. Pyne's high output is 30. Book's in 2020 was 85. None of these are remotely the same.

If so far this season Pyne had doubled his rushing output while scoring 3 rushing TD's, and had 50+ yards rushing in 1/3 of the games, Notre Dame football is likely in a much better spot.

I'm not comparing their running ability 1 to 1, I just threw that stat out there after I mentioned a game where Book played terribly but someone responded that he had 50yrds rushing. I was just pointing out that Pyne had a similar amount of rushing yrds in one of his bad games if that's what is being used to suggest that Book was just some far better QB overall. Obviously Book is the better runner. But Pyne only starting for 6 full games is part of my issue, that's not nearly a big enough sample size to legitimately say he's not even good enough to be compared to Book, who started for 3yrs in a row. Book had much more time to improve after he hit his low points. Pyne could go on a tear for the rest of the season for all we know, which is why I think it's much more disingenuous to suggest that Book was just incomparably better than him because he could run the ball decently well, but their passing stats are still more or less in the same range at this point.