Tommy Rees - Offensive Coordinator

Bluto

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Unlike Rees, Sirriani and Steichen have done an incredible job of catering the offense to Jalen Hurts strengths. Hurts is far from the most talented QB, but he’s a good decision maker who is set up to succeed by his coach.

As we saw with Buchner and to a lesser extent with Pyne, Rees is incredibly stubborn. While I think he is a good play caller who could potentially be great with a competent pocket passer, he loves to try to fit square pegs in round holes.
Kelly had a habit of doing the same thing. He recruited a bunch of really good athletes with big arms then was like “make checks at the line, hang in the pocket, go through multiple reads”.

Also, if I’m remembering correctly didn’t Rees used to make all kinds of checks at the line, get into the right play then proceed to try to make a throw he wasn’t capable of?

Anyhow, it was pretty funny seeing Pyne run a couple of the good old zone reads that weren’t really zone reads last weekend.
 
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allenm5333

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Nick Sirianni, I talk to a good amount. During the season we keep in touch. Shane Steichen is there calling it. I keep in touch there. A guy I’ve formed a pretty solid relationship with is Joe Brady over the last couple years. We keep in touch.”
And this is what concerns me. Wanting to talk to "NFL guys" instead of college guys. The 2 games are so different. You could get away talking to NFL guys if we had NFL talent at the skill positions on Offense...
 

Free Manera

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And this is what concerns me. Wanting to talk to "NFL guys" instead of college guys. The 2 games are so different. You could get away talking to NFL guys if we had NFL talent at the skill positions on Offense...
Yep. Look around college football. Teams EVERYWHERE are putting up points with RPOs, slow mesh, and air raid concepts. These are comparatively simple even in the more advanced schemes. The offense generally lines up, the QB looks for hot reads, and they go. The QB reads a defender, then usually has two options off the read. In air raid schemes, it is usually a "triangle read" (3 receivers forming a triangle on the field, like a vertical, a post, and a curl underneath) where the QB looks for open space and makes the throw.

The ND offense is nuclear physics in comparison. You ask the kids to process the play call, line up, then look at the sideline to interpret a signal, then process the new play call in like 5 seconds before the snap. Then you have the receivers generally stretching the field horizontally, asking Pyne to stay in the pocket where he can't see anything, and make throws he really can't make. There is no real identity, no bread and butter plays that they come back to on a regular basis.

There is a reason NFL guys like Rees. He IS a good x's and o's guy and his concepts probably make a lot of sense to them. Because they have players that can spend countless hours learning and practicing the stuff. But this offense is just too complicated. You just can't put that on college kids, especially at a place where they actually have to go to school. If Merriweather can't get on the field because he doesn't know where to line up, that's a you problem Tom. You're making it too hard.
 

Guyjin37

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And this is what concerns me. Wanting to talk to "NFL guys" instead of college guys. The 2 games are so different. You could get away talking to NFL guys if we had NFL talent at the skill positions on Offense...
Have to agree, Tommy's biggest problem is that he's trying to play an NFL game on a college field. He doesn't need to be looking at the NFL or talking with NFL coaches, he needs to be watching film of college football's best offenses for inspiration.

He's way too pragmatic, too focused on scheme. He seems to think that if everybody runs it as he's designed it the offense will have success. And he puts the guys on the field who he trusts to run his designs best. Probably why we don't see players like Tobias more.

The trouble is, the college game is different than the NFL. You don't have to scan the D so much to beat it on a given play. You don't have to focus so much on out-thinking the coaches on the other side. Sometimes in college ball you just need your athletes to go do their thing. Sometimes you line it up and do what you know the D knows you're gonna do and just do it. And sometimes, momentum alone can get you a big play.

The point is, college football doesn't have to be so intellectual or complicated. It really feels like the more adversity our O sees on the field, the deeper Rees digs in, and the more complicated and fancy his schemes become. Like he's in his own head and the more pressure he's feeling from outside, the more he leans into his play designs and everything seems to be getting more and more cute and complicated.

The O, just like the D, needs to simplify. Just because we have smart guys on the team doesn't mean they can handle that needless complication. Rees needs to cut his playbook in half.
 

stlnd01

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Have to agree, Tommy's biggest problem is that he's trying to play an NFL game on a college field. He doesn't need to be looking at the NFL or talking with NFL coaches, he needs to be watching film of college football's best offenses for inspiration.

He's way too pragmatic, too focused on scheme. He seems to think that if everybody runs it as he's designed it the offense will have success. And he puts the guys on the field who he trusts to run his designs best. Probably why we don't see players like Tobias more.

The trouble is, the college game is different than the NFL. You don't have to scan the D so much to beat it on a given play. You don't have to focus so much on out-thinking the coaches on the other side. Sometimes in college ball you just need your athletes to go do their thing. Sometimes you line it up and do what you know the D knows you're gonna do and just do it. And sometimes, momentum alone can get you a big play.

The point is, college football doesn't have to be so intellectual or complicated. It really feels like the more adversity our O sees on the field, the deeper Rees digs in, and the more complicated and fancy his schemes become. Like he's in his own head and the more pressure he's feeling from outside, the more he leans into his play designs and everything seems to be getting more and more cute and complicated.

The O, just like the D, needs to simplify. Just because we have smart guys on the team doesn't mean they can handle that needless complication. Rees needs to cut his playbook in half.
The funny thing is the two things that work best in our offense - throwing to Mayer, and inside runs with Diggs/Estime - are basically that.
But yeah the passing game is way too complex, especially given the personnel at hand.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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And this is what concerns me. Wanting to talk to "NFL guys" instead of college guys. The 2 games are so different. You could get away talking to NFL guys if we had NFL talent at the skill positions on Offense...
Ten years ago? Yeah, probably. Five years ago probably, too.

These days, you don't hear "Pro" or "Pro Sytle" much anymore in the parlance of our times.
 

allenm5333

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Ten years ago? Yeah, probably. Five years ago probably, too.

These days, you don't hear "Pro" or "Pro Sytle" much anymore in the parlance of our times.
It is less different. But the RPO rules and hash mark difference are hugeeee. Also, the disparity in speed from a Marshall/UNLV v. what ND should be is muchhhh bigger than Chiefs v. Bills
 

Dale

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And had fricking Burrow, Chase, Clide, Jefferson, and Marshall..

Which is what made them so great. But the idea that NFL and CFB are “so different” is outdated. Eagles use CFB concepts. Brady has gone to CFB and back again and had it work. Flip side the Ravens, 49ers and Rams former assistants scatter CFB running things too.

Heck how many posts on this board could we find asking for Joe Brady you think?
 

SoIll

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Which is what made them so great. But the idea that NFL and CFB are “so different” is outdated. Eagles use CFB concepts. Brady has gone to CFB and back again and had it work. Flip side the Ravens, 49ers and Rams former assistants scatter CFB running things too.

Heck how many posts on this board could we find asking for Joe Brady you think?
Believe he is the QB coach in Buffalo. Dude hated recruiting though.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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It is less different. But the RPO rules and hash mark difference are hugeeee. Also, the disparity in speed from a Marshall/UNLV v. what ND should be is muchhhh bigger than Chiefs v. Bills
All due respect, but no shit. We're talking about X's and O's/scheme, though.

But yeah, the two best teams in the AFC are light years ahead of Marshall and UNLV. No one is arguing with you there. Although, these days, who knows.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Which is what made them so great. But the idea that NFL and CFB are “so different” is outdated. Eagles use CFB concepts. Brady has gone to CFB and back again and had it work. Flip side the Ravens, 49ers and Rams former assistants scatter CFB running things too.

Heck how many posts on this board could we find asking for Joe Brady you think?
I'd take Joe Brady as the ND OC in a second. Matt Rhule had to bus toss him last year and look how that turned out.
 

allenm5333

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All due respect, but no shit. We're talking about X's and O's/scheme, though.

But yeah, the two best teams in the AFC are light years ahead of Marshall and UNLV. No one is arguing with you there. Although, these days, who knows.
You missed the point. But good try
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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You missed the point. But good try
Ok. Expound.

Because ultimately, you should be talking to NFL guys and college guys. Hell, there are high school guys running innovative stuff in Texas year after year and you're probably recruiting their players. They'll be college assistants soon enough.

Why leave any stones unturned?
 

Grahambo

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Your job as a coach is to put players in positions to succeed. Maximize their skill set in a way that complements each other. I think it’s clear that TR runs a complicated offense. Styles and Merriweather didn’t become bad at football overnight. The next OC needs to simplify the offense.
 

317Irish

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Ok. Expound.

Because ultimately, you should be talking to NFL guys and college guys. Hell, there are high school guys running innovative stuff in Texas year after year and you're probably recruiting their players. They'll be college assistants soon enough.

Why leave any stones unturned?
Looks like we found Golic JRs handle…
 

Ray “The Mule” Finkle

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Garrett Riley's SMU teams were top 15 offenses both years he was there. Now he has TCU rolling. He'd be my pick if staying with the younger type. A guy like Longo would be my choice for the seasoned type.
 

allenm5333

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Ok. Expound.

Because ultimately, you should be talking to NFL guys and college guys. Hell, there are high school guys running innovative stuff in Texas year after year and you're probably recruiting their players. They'll be college assistants soon enough.

Why leave any stones unturned?
The hashes dramatically change the game. In the NFL there is a yard rule for blocking downfield on RPOs compared to 3 in college. The Chiefs playing the Texans is not as big of a talent gap as ND playing UNLV. ND should be able to use its athletic advantage when the margin is much thicker
 

StPaul_Irish

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Garrett Riley's SMU teams were top 15 offenses both years he was there. Now he has TCU rolling. He'd be my pick if staying with the younger type. A guy like Longo would be my choice for the seasoned type.

I know next to nothing about Garrett Riley or his offense, but I will take your work for it, and the name holds weight.

While I think he could be an option, MY top 2 Warren R and Phil Longo have a couple things I really am looking for in an OC/QB.

- Experience/wisdom, being a bit older and having more experience is something the staff lacks, especially on the offensive side of the ball. An older/calming/experienced voice is key (IMO)
- Track record of both recruiting and developing. Longo took Tad Hudson last year, a guy I think we sorely missed on. Again IMO
- Proven high octane/successful offenses in COLLEGE FOOTBALL. They seem to know what is going on, and how to get the most out of there guys.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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The hashes dramatically change the game. In the NFL there is a yard rule for blocking downfield on RPOs compared to 3 in college. The Chiefs playing the Texans is not as big of a talent gap as ND playing UNLV. ND should be able to use its athletic advantage when the margin is much thick
There are rule nuances between college and pro, yes, but as far as the game being tailored to offense and defenses having not caught up yet is where I think the advantage lies. The football guys are going to be smart enough to take what they need from each other schematically and adapt it to the college hashes and pro hashes within whatever respective rules there are.

I still don't think the games are all that different, going back to what you posted earlier. The spread has been prevalent now in college and high school for over 15 years. It's like three pointers in basketball: not going anywhere anytime soon. NFL GMs and coaches have had to adapt to this whether they wanted to or not. There was a time not that long ago that Lamar Jackson would have had zero place in the NFL. He'd be a WR. Someone with Bryce Young's measurables would not be projected to be a Top Ten overall pick.

I always felt that BK's offense must have been too complex because so many talented true FR never saw meaningful reps. I am starting to get the impression that maybe TR's offense isn't as easy to digest as it could be. Still, with that being said, I think when looking for the next guy or if TR is picking anyone's brain about scheme he shouldn't be limiting himself to who he's talking to and the subject matter.
 

StPaul_Irish

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From his Wiki:

On December 15, 2016, it was reported that Longo was hired to be the new offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at the University of Mississippi. Despite averaging over 500 yards of offense per game, his offense was criticized for its inability to score in the red zone and in clutch moments.

Longo was named the offensive coordinator at North Carolina in 2019. In his first three seasons as Tar Heel OC, Longo guided quarterback Sam Howell to multiple school records, and his offense produced multiple 1,000 yard receivers and rushers.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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I know next to nothing about Garrett Riley or his offense, but I will take your work for it, and the name holds weight.

While I think he could be an option, MY top 2 Warren R and Phil Longo have a couple things I really am looking for in an OC/QB.

- Experience/wisdom, being a bit older and having more experience is something the staff lacks, especially on the offensive side of the ball. An older/calming/experienced voice is key (IMO)
- Track record of both recruiting and developing. Longo took Tad Hudson last year, a guy I think we sorely missed on. Again IMO
- Proven high octane/successful offenses in COLLEGE FOOTBALL. They seem to know what is going on, and how to get the most out of there guys.
SMU ranked in the top 15 in scoring and total offense in the two years he was OC.

TCU is currently ranked third in the country right now in both.
 

StPaul_Irish

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SMU ranked in the top 15 in scoring and total offense in the two years he was OC.

TCU is currently ranked third in the country right now in both.

Thanks, and I agree based on the info from you/here, that he is a viable option and one to consider. I just like the other guys based on experience. I don't think one is right or wrong, just my preference in this situation.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Thanks, and I agree based on the info from you/here, that he is a viable option and one to consider. I just like the other guys based on experience. I don't think one is right or wrong, just my preference in this situation.
Agreed. My top five is familiar:

1. Ruggiero
2. Longo
3. Grubb, Washington
4. Riley, TCU
5. Kittley, Texas Tech
 
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