Marcus Freeman Revisited

[Domina Nostra]

I have nothing against Freeman, but this is just a horrible job for someone without HC experience--especially with the present roster.

 

[Ray “The Mule” Finkle]

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That's great Driskell now realizes he needs to separate being a fan and from being an analyst. What a break-thru in honest self-reflection.....

Like LBJ once said, If "I've lost Cronkite (Driskell), I've lost Middle America (ND Nation)."

Driskell was the biggest Freeman fanboy out there.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Haha, come on man. We are 3-3 and completely inept. You cannot be content with the approach.

This isn't an answer. What's it look like?

This guy?

 

[irishff1014]

Looking at the last four classes, per rivals rankings

Freeman's classes
ND 2019 14th
ND 2020 22nd
ND 2021 9th
ND 2022 6th
Average: 12.75
Alabama
2004 15th
2005 18th
2006 11th
2007 10th
Average: 13.25
UGA
2013 12th
2014 7th
2015 6th
2016 9th
Average: 8.5

2020 being ranked 22nd is generous. I really didn't realize how bad it was until looking more into it. Of the 17 commitments in that class, 4 have transferred and 6 barely play. It really only has Mayer, Pyne, Tyree, Mills, Watts, C Lewis, Ramon Henderson, and Bauman making an impact in their careers thus far... this is the junior class. Besides being bad, it's small in numbers.

This isn't a defense of Freeman because he can't lose to freaking Marshall and an awful Stanford team. But the 2023 class is going to elevate the overall talent on this roster significantly in talent but more importantly numbers.

Thanks for looking this up. I agree the 23' recruiting class will help. But the defense hasn't been perfect but good enough to win every game but Marshall. The offense has let this team down and it starts with Rees. He has been on staff since 2017 and has nothing other than Ian Book to bring to the table in the QB world. While Ian Book was a good QB he wasn't a great QB. The QB recruiting alone should have had Rees fire.

 

[Irishdrunk]

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Like LBJ once said, If "I've lost Cronkite (Driskell), I've lost Middle America (ND Nation)."

Driskell was the biggest Freeman fanboy out there.

He was awful to me on his board. He was furious I questioned the logic of marrying Marcus Freeman (Inexperienced HC with D-Side Experience) with a young, inexperienced OC in Rees. He kept telling me arrogantly "Do Better" and then I got banned. This was all well before the season started. This disaster is actually worse than I thought it would be. To think a smart guy like Jack Swarbrick orchestrated this shit show is what is amazing.

Hey Jack - to quote my friend BD: "DO BETTER"

 

[NDohio]

Some of the criticism coming at Freeman is so silly.

Looks like he wants to cry? I just watched the presser - nope. Not at any point in that presser did he look like he wanted to cry.

Doesn't communicate with his coaches on the sideline? I have no response. You are just being stupid. Of course he is talking to the coaches.

This team looked like shit Saturday - no doubt. They have also held every one of their opponents to season lows for scoring. They are the only loss on UNC's season. They lead tOSU till late in the third quarter. They beat a quality BYU team.

Giving up on Marcus Freeman this early in his coaching tenure is crazy.

 

[Ray “The Mule” Finkle]

Some of the criticism coming at Freeman is so silly.

Looks like he wants to cry? I just watched the presser - nope. Not at any point in that presser did he look like he wanted to cry.

Doesn't communicate with his coaches on the sideline? I have no response. You are just being stupid. Of course he is talking to the coaches.

This team looked like shit Saturday - no doubt. They have also held every one of their opponents to season lows for scoring. They are the only loss on UNC's season. They lead tOSU till late in the third quarter. They beat a quality BYU team.

Giving up on Marcus Freeman this early in his coaching tenure is crazy.

Elston did a hell of a job with the defensive line. Sadly, that's regressing too.

 

[tko]

This isn't an answer. What's it look like?

This guy?

I wish I could load in some gifs for you. Automotive legend Lee Iacocca was famous for saying “The speed of the boss is the speed of the team.” He wanted to make sure his leaders were out in front motivating their team to do better. But knowing the speed of the team – and adjusting when necessary – is a critical requirement for success." I want Freeman to succeed so bad, however, the current vibe isn't working, in my opinion of course. Maybe we don't have the alpha dogs on the field to lead this year I don't know. You're born with certain stripes, however, I think Marcus can enhance who he is a bit to bring out more from the team.

 

[Luckylucci]

Fun Fact. Stanford had lost 11 straight games against FBS opponents until they played Marcus Freeman's ND squad, on the road.

 

[FOTY977]

Thats what I thought about the Presser too. Total trainwreck. He should be angry as fuck instead he looks like he wants to fucking cry. This is Football, not figure skating. Grow some. Those players should be working out like they are hitting the Beaches at Normandy against UNLV and he should be so far in Rees's shorts over this pathetic offense that he stops golfing.

I want Marcus Purple Face not talking ethereal nonsense.

I would love if he quit golf—massive red flag of a coach in my mind going forward. 8 rounds during the evaluation period and 17 rounds total from May-July is fireable. No way you can be working hard enough as an OC if you’re keeping up a sub-10 handicap (Rees is a 9.2 index)

 

[Irishdrunk]

I would love if he quit golf—massive red flag of a coach in my mind going forward. 8 rounds during the evaluation period and 17 rounds total from May-July is fireable. No way you can be working hard enough as an OC if you’re keeping up a sub-10 handicap (Rees is a 9.2 index)

Yep he posts on the USGA GHIN. Its like he is seeing clear skies and smooth waters and there are icebergs all around. Rees was spoiled by having Kelly cover his Offensive side for him.

 

[FOTY977]

Yep he posts on the USGA GHIN. Its like he is seeing clear skies and smooth waters and there are icebergs all around. Rees was spoiled by having Kelly cover his Offensive side for him.

He’s been spoiled by the entire football community letting him fall ass backwards into every position he’s held since high school.

 

[Bluto]

I sincerely don't understand this. What could Freeman have done demonstrably in front of cameras that was going to make this team better than 3-3? Fist pumps? Dance steps? Maybe play grab ass with the chain gang? What does it look like, exactly? I don't see how Freeman having a mini fuckabout on the sidelines is beneficial to the rest of the staff and the players.

This is so overrated. A 36 year old man meating out in public is going to ignite the masses and inspire first downs. Like Bill Walsh doing the Bruce Springsteen step would've gotten them over the hump against those neanderthal Giants defenses.

Do we blame his being raised by a military man for him being so terribly boring on the sidelines?

Kelly threw all of the Charlie Weis recruits he had on the team under the bus with the infamous “not my guys comment” during a press conference or maybe it was a post game interview in 2011. They responded pretty well. Not saying that’s the solution here but sometimes the lever involving calling someone out publicly needs to be pulled.

 

[AlaskanIrish]

Thats what I thought about the Presser too. Total trainwreck. He should be angry as fuck instead he looks like he wants to fucking cry. This is Football, not figure skating. Grow some. Those players should be working out like they are hitting the Beaches at Normandy against UNLV and he should be so far in Rees's shorts over this pathetic offense that he stops golfing.

I want Marcus Purple Face not talking ethereal nonsense.

I know this is the narrative, but one of the first things I said in the game was "Thank goodness Freeman is pissed and letting it show." He was animated a few times, if I recall correctly.

 

[irish2104]

Watched Press conference and was in no way close to crying. If anything press conference made me feel better

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Kelly threw all of the Charlie Weis recruits he had on the team under the bus with the infamous “not my guys comment” during a press conference or maybe it was a post game interview in 2011. They responded pretty well. Not saying that’s the solution here but sometimes the lever involving calling someone out publicly needs to be pulled.

Think about how long ago this was and how much has changed since then as related to college football's landscape overall and how kids are now being coached.

I get what you're saying, but I'd rather this kind of thing happen in practice and behind closed doors. I don't need to see it on Saturdays to validate anything for myself. If others do, that's fine, but I still don't understand why this is a thing. One of the most stoic people ever to coach sports won his 324th NFL game yesterday. This is overrated and there isn't tangible proof that it leads to measurable successful results.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I think it really is as simple as he is learning on the job. Whether he becomes a good HC or not is still undetermined.

Think about how long ago this was and how much has changed since then as related to college football's landscape overall and how kids are now being coached.

I get what you're saying, but I'd rather this kind of thing happen in practice and behind closed doors. I don't need to see it on Saturdays to validate anything for myself. If others do, that's fine, but I still don't understand why this is a thing. One of the most stoic people ever to coach sports won his 324th NFL game yesterday. This is overrated and there isn't tangible proof that it leads to measurable successful results.

Personally, I'd much rather have a coach who treated me like family, but let me have it when I needed it. Tough love is good.

Bill Belichick may not lose his temper, but he 100% rules by fear and had treated many people like crap. Like Nick Saban, BB is one of those coaches whose specialty is coaching excellent players. When he has average players, he is totally average (36-44 at Cleveland; 5-11 in NE pre-Brady, 20-19 post-Brady)

 

[Reaper97]

Watched Press conference and was in no way close to crying. If anything press conference made me feel better

That press conference made you feel better?

Said Rees was doing an excellent job.
Said he didn’t know what was happening during the Marshall game.
Said he was lacking confidence in his own head coaching ability.
Said he couldn’t just keep doing what BK was doing, had to start over (despite inheriting a top 5 program).

That made you feel better?

 

[Reaper97]

I think it really is as simple as he is learning on the job. Whether he becomes a good HC or not is still undetermined.

Learning on the job or not, he has a top 10 roster & lost at home to two teams that have maybe be top 80 rosters.
The only way you lose (once, let alone twice) in that situation is being completely lost.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Learning on the job or not, he has a top 10 roster & lost at home to two teams that have maybe be top 80 rosters.
The only way you lose (once, let alone twice) in that situation is being completely lost.

Yup. It's been terrible. I have always thought it was a lazy hire, regardless of whether or not he eventually becomes a great HC.

 

[stlnd01]

That press conference made you feel better?

Said Rees was doing an excellent job.
Said he didn’t know what was happening during the Marshall game.
Said he was lacking confidence in his own head coaching ability.
Said he couldn’t just keep doing what BK was doing, had to start over (despite inheriting a top 5 program).

That made you feel better?

People hear what they want to hear but those would not really be the takeaways I had from Freeman‘s press conference today.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Agree. Fickell would be Kelly 2.0. Need to give Freeman a year to acclimate. The good part is he's not making knee jerk decisions based off of emotions or results.

I don't lnow who all wanted Fickell. I wasn't really keen on him. I wanted Campbell, Brohm, Rhule.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Learning on the job or not, he has a top 10 roster & lost at home to two teams that have maybe be top 80 rosters.
The only way you lose (once, let alone twice) in that situation is being completely lost.

I don't buy the top 10 roster. Arguably the two most important positions on the roster in cfb today is WR and QB. We are outside the top 25 on both. A good OC could likely patch work some things. But it's no coincidence that ND has struggled this year when teams press coverage and run blitz with a NB and safety. People are daring ND to go four vertices every play yet we force into horrible numbers time and time again.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

My worst gripe is never be effusive when giving out praise that isn’t earned. And he did that in his presser. All this other stuff about demeanor is odd and misses the point. If Freeman wants to stay head coach, he will have to make some tough calls and risk unpopularity in some capacity.

Bingo. That's a huge part of the job. The HC falls on his sword a lot and takes the shit.

Control what you can control, embrace challenges, assess, adapt, never stop learning, accept that shit happens, do what it takes to be successful, create a positive and healthy culture, be centered.

It's 2022. Athletes typically don't respond to the raving lunatic bit anymore. We're talking about the son of a military man who was coached in college by Jim Tressel. If you want an imbecile that was groomed by Schembechler and Ditka, drive north to Ann Arbor.

 

[Reaper97]

I don't buy the top 10 roster. Arguably the two most important positions on the roster in cfb today is WR and QB. We are outside the top 25 on both. A good OC could likely patch work some things. But it's no coincidence that ND has struggled this year when teams press coverage and run blitz with a NB and safety. People are daring ND to go four vertices every play yet we force into horrible numbers time and time again.

QB is #1.
But OL & DL are still 2A & 2B, and always will be.
If ND was losing to OSU, UGA & Bama, like in the BK years, I would blame roster.
Losing to Marshall, Stanford, & barely squeaking by Cal, all at home is not roster.
We look at the holes in our roster, but if you watch college football outside of ND, you will see other teams have way more holes.
USC, UNC, etc…have had better QBs & WRs than ND for years, but ND owns both, because ND’s overall roster is better.
There aren’t 10 teams in the country with better overall rosters.

 

[Ray “The Mule” Finkle]

Bingo. That's a huge part of the job. The HC falls on his sword a lot and takes the shit.

Control what you can control, embrace challenges, assess, adapt, never stop learning, accept that shit happens, do what it takes to be successful, create a positive and healthy culture, be centered.

It's 2022. Athletes typically don't respond to the raving lunatic bit anymore. We're talking about the son of a military man who was coached in college by Jim Tressel. If you want an imbecile that was groomed by Schembechler and Ditka, drive north to Ann Arbor.

Yeah that idiot in the north beat Ohio state last year and is 6-0. Harbaugh is a great coach and I’d love to have him.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I don't buy the top 10 roster. Arguably the two most important positions on the roster in cfb today is WR and QB. We are outside the top 25 on both. A good OC could likely patch work some things. But it's no coincidence that ND has struggled this year when teams press coverage and run blitz with a NB and safety. People are daring ND to go four vertices every play yet we force into horrible numbers time and time again.

Most of the country would kill for our roster.

 

[Dale]

The funny thing about the loading the box and daring ND to beat them deep…..



…….no one has actually stopped it.


It’s the same issue Book had, scared to throw deep because it could be a mistake, but they’ve rarely if ever actually made said mistake. Stanford broke up what the 1 Styles pass that was clear PI? It’s vastly overestimating the capabilities of most college DBs.

Last year Coan attempted 54 deep passes, only 3 were picked off. Book in 2020, 41 attempts only 2 INTs.

Pyne is attempting deep balls at a similar clip to Book, which is a matter of just 1 - 2 less a game. But if you attempt 1 - 2 more of those a game and they are actually on target, well that’s points.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

The funny thing about the loading the box and daring ND to beat them deep…..



…….no one has actually stopped it.


It’s the same issue Book had, scared to throw deep because it could be a mistake, but they’ve rarely if ever actually made said mistake. Stanford broke up what the 1 Styles pass that was clear PI? It’s vastly overestimating the capabilities of most college DBs.

Last year Coan attempted 54 deep passes, only 3 were picked off. Book in 2020, 41 attempts only 2 INTs.

This.

The rulebook has been rewritten to benefit the offense at every level of football. Especially when it comes to passing the ball to WR and what DB are and are not allowed to do.

They probably miss more Offensive PI calls than they do Defensive PI calls. You have to take some risks and get the ball downfield.

 

[Sea Turtle]

You and the rest of the boo birds weren't remotely satisfied with the high floor/ low ceiling that Kelly provided in his last five years. As soon as we ran into an elite defense in the post-season and looked predictably inept moving the ball, you'd all go into existential crisis mode about how ND will never win another championship, time to move on from Kelly, etc. Excuse me if I'm not impressed by your newfound respect for Kelly only now that he became the first coach to ever voluntarily leave ND to chase a bag. You will reach for any argument, no matter how unprincipled, if it lets you bitch about the program.

This isn't about being satisfied at that level. It's about nosediving from that level. Yes, I'm one of the glass half empty people on here. You can never be satisfied.

QB recruiting has been a persistent problem since Kelly arrived. QB development has not.

I disagree. Every QB regressed. ND has become a place whee QB's go to die.

You don't know the first f*cking thing about what a CFB HC does during the game. This is all emotional projection for you.

Fair enough.

Irish fans deserve better than this. But Kelly left ND with some major holes on the roster, and there's almost always pain during head coaching transitions. It's still far too early to tell what Freeman is capable of. I'm still glad we gambled on the low floor/ high ceiling guy (Freeman) over the safe hire (Fickell). The latter would have signalled that ND doesn't really expect to ever compete for another title.

He left him with a top ten roster. A roster that most coaches would kill for. All h had to do was bring in a qb and a couple of recievers to fill holes.

I really don't give a shit what that self-serving mercenary fuck chooses to leak about Freeman.

That's fair enough but i give credence to his opinion of his subordinates.

Responses within quote.