Russia Invades Ukraine

[TorontoGold]

 

[Wild Bill]

We assassinate noncombatants with radioactive waste and nerve agent? Trump never tried to have Biden killed. Etc etc.

We've done shady stuff in the past, but we're worlds different from Russia. One only need look at our tactics in Iraq vs. Their's in Syria. Or our aim to topple dictators vs. Theirs to keep them going. We make mistakes and do bad things, but we're not on Putin's level.

Yes, we've killed thousands of civilians with drone strikes in the middle east.

NATO bombing in serbia killed and wounded thousands of civilians and they intentionally targeted hospitals, homes, an oil refinery etc.

Who knows now many civilians NATO killed in Libya.

We just wanted to topple dictators and spread democracy and freedom. It had nothing to do with the interests of our ruling class. The world has been blessed with these angels who control the us military.

 

[drayer54]

Why do people keep saying the right admires Putin? Everyone I know that is conservative hates Putin and his tactics.

Because they are partisan liars who want to associate people they hate with the worst people in the world. The timeline of Putin's advances and Republican leaders don't support the narrative, neither does polling. Dems Congressional leader Maloney is trying to link Ukraine to support for democracy and their so-called voting rights push. It's all rhetoric and pretty tasteless, even for Dems.

 

[Irish#1]

Wouldn’t it be nice if Putin would keel over from a heart attack in the next 15 minutes?

 

[BilboBaggins]

Russia didn't border a NATO member for the first 53 years of the alliance. It wasn't until 2002, when the Baltic states were included, did that change. And the Russians were pissed at the time, and have been ever since. Those were the first former Soviet states to join NATO, and Russian troops had been stationed there as recently as 1995. Lots of foreign policies experts decried that particular expansion as a terrible idea at the time, but this was at the peak of our "end of history"/ unipolar moment, so they were ignored.

Regarding (2), it's possible that Putin has no intention of holding western Ukraine for that very reason (it would extend the border he shares with NATO members significantly, thereby increasing the chance of a military confrontation that ends poorly for him). If he only takes the land east of the Dneiper and withdraws from western Ukraine with guarantees of neutrality, he avoids that problem.

It's not about their feelings. It's about managing the risk of nuclear war. Great powers naturally don't want to share a border with hostile nations, so wherever possible, they try to maintain a buffer zone of neutral neighbors. Intentionally encircling a nuclear power is not something that has ever been tried before.

Does Russia have some sort of right to not border a NATO state? Should we give Russia the greenlight to conquer and subjugate the Baltics while were at it? All because Russia has nuclear weapons...and worse yet, doesn't feel that said nuclear weapons are a large enough deterrent by themselves?

I'm having trouble understanding the logic here. I know Mearsheimer and others were not fond of moving NATO and the EU eastward, but the alternative is to create a world order wherein the pariahs with nuclear weapons get to call the shots.

The same calculus that Russia is a logical/rational actor merely looking out for its geopolitical best interests by persuing buffer states, or perhaps its "natural borders," must also accept that the same rational actor has 0.00% chance of starting a nuclear war. If they did that, there is no Russia. There is no economy for the oligarch leaches to thrive off of. It's just over.

Russia doesn't want to subjugate Ukraine because they're afraid of NATO. Putin and his cronies, being the embodiment of Russia, want a buffer state so the Slavic world doesn't get to witness the prosperity of a westernizing and liberalizing nation. It would show the Russian people exactly what they are missing and threaten Putin and Co. with internal unrest. Of course that is a problem of their own making. Don't want internal unrest? Reform.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Does Russia have some sort of right to not border a NATO state? Should we give Russia the greenlight to conquer and subjugate the Baltics while were at it? All because Russia has nuclear weapons...and worse yet, doesn't feel that said nuclear weapons are a large enough deterrent by themselves?

"Right" has nothing to do with it. The Realist model is descriptive, not prescriptive. And it's done a pretty admirable job of predicting how nations like Russia will act in any given situation.

I'm having trouble understanding the logic here. I know Mearsheimer and others were not fond of moving NATO and the EU eastward, but the alternative is to create a world order wherein the pariahs with nuclear weapons get to call the shots.

That's not the dichotomy we have before us. Russia is constrained in innumerable ways--by their small natural-resource-based economy, their low birth rates, their lack of innovation, their aging military technology, etc. That their present capability and sphere of influence allows them some room to behave badly does not mean they're free to do anything they want anywhere.

The same calculus that Russia is a logical/rational actor merely looking out for its geopolitical best interests by persuing buffer states, or perhaps its "natural borders," must also accept that the same rational actor has 0.00% chance of starting a nuclear war. If they did that, there is no Russia. There is no economy for the oligarch leaches to thrive off of. It's just over.

Are you familiar with Taleb's black swan theory? Our elites are terrible at planning around low-probability but huge-liability tail risks. Engaging Russia in direct military conflict would raise the odds of the world ending by several orders of magnitude. What are those odds starting at now? How high would they go if we started shooting at the Putin's army? Is it worth taking that risk to stop a petty authoritarian from rolling over an eastern European country of little strategic importance to NATO?

Russia doesn't want to subjugate Ukraine because they're afraid of NATO. Putin and his cronies, being the embodiment of Russia, want a buffer state so the Slavic world doesn't get to witness the prosperity of a westernizing and liberalizing nation. It would show the Russian people exactly what they are missing and threaten Putin and Co. with internal unrest. Of course that is a problem of their own making. Don't want internal unrest? Reform.

The Slavic world has had broadband internet access for a long time. They know exactly how Westerners live.

We allowed Russia to become a kleptocracy when the USSR fell in 1989. Putin is the "strongman" who holds the pathetic farce together. This is as much about maintaining his legitimacy as a ruler ("based" Putin, leader of the Holy Rus, proudly opposing the imperialism of GloboHomo, etc.) as it is about anything else. As I've said before, Putin is not acting from a position of strength here. It's never a good idea to interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake.

 

[Armyirish47]

"Right" has nothing to do with it. The Realist model is descriptive, not prescriptive. And it's done a pretty admirable job of predicting how nations like Russia will act in any given situation.

That's not the dichotomy we have before us. Russia is constrained in innumerable ways--by their small natural-resource-based economy, their low birth rates, their lack of innovation, their aging military technology, etc. That their present capability and sphere of influence allows them some room to behave badly does not mean they're free to do anything they want anywhere.

Are you familiar with Taleb's black swan theory? Our elites are terrible at planning around low-probability but huge-liability tail risks. Engaging Russia in direct military conflict would raise the odds of the world ending by several orders of magnitude. What are those odds starting at now? How high would they go if we started shooting at the Putin's army? Is it worth taking that risk to stop a petty authoritarian from rolling over an eastern European country of little strategic importance to NATO?

The Slavic world has had broadband internet access for a long time. They know exactly how Westerners live.

We allowed Russia to become a kleptocracy when the USSR fell in 1989. Putin is the "strongman" who holds the pathetic farce together. This is as much about maintaining his legitimacy as a ruler ("based" Putin, leader of the Holy Rus, proudly opposing the imperialism of GloboHomo, etc.) as it is about anything else. As I've said before, Putin is not acting from a position of strength here. It's never a good idea to interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Because they are partisan liars who want to associate people they hate with the worst people in the world. The timeline of Putin's advances and Republican leaders don't support the narrative, neither does polling. Dems Congressional leader Maloney is trying to link Ukraine to support for democracy and their so-called voting rights push. It's all rhetoric and pretty tasteless, even for Dems.

Winner winner.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I guess you haven’t had the displeasure of listening to anything from Carlson or Hannity. Trump also gargles Putins balls every chance he gets.

You’re just making shit up. This is categorically false.

 

[GATTACA!]

You’re just making shit up. This is categorically false.

Trump didn't call Putin's invasion of Ukraine savvy? Hmmm must have been fake news.

Here's the head chode the day before the invasion blaming Biden's policies (even though Trump was the one that withheld military aid to Ukraine and was buddy buddy with Putin) and saying that "Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it." Because somehow it's the "lame street medias" fault that everyone hates a dictator that just invaded a sovereign nation.

Tucker Carlson: Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it

Tucker Carlson reacts to the latest developments in Ukraine, and says all Americans will suffer because of Biden's policies.

www.foxnews.com

 

[NorthDakota]

I guess you haven’t had the displeasure or listening to anything from Carlson or Hannity. Trump also gargles Putins balls every chance he gets.

Someone posted a video of John Daly with The Don on speaker. He's maintaining he told Putin and Xi what he'd do if they pulled this sorta thing.

Because they are partisan liars who want to associate people they hate with the worst people in the world. The timeline of Putin's advances and Republican leaders don't support the narrative, neither does polling. Dems Congressional leader Maloney is trying to link Ukraine to support for democracy and their so-called voting rights push. It's all rhetoric and pretty tasteless, even for Dems.

Yeah its a made up narrative.

Also pretty funny that people have tried calling Ukraine a democracy. Its

Trump didn't call Putin's invasion of Ukraine savvy? Hmmm must have been fake news.

Here's the head chode the day before the invasion blaming Biden's policies (even though Trump was the one that withheld military aid to Ukraine and was buddy buddy with Putin) and saying that "Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it." Because somehow it's the "lame street medias" fault that everyone hates a dictator that just invaded a sovereign nation.

Tucker Carlson: Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it

Tucker Carlson reacts to the latest developments in Ukraine, and says all Americans will suffer because of Biden's policies.

www.foxnews.com

Fun fact: you can describe something as "savvy" even if others do it. Whether it was savvy or not but that is another discussion entirely.

Trump will go to his grave (and has video to back it up) confronting the eurotrash about falling to hold up their end of NATO and letting Russia own them. He's done that for years.

That's no longer relevant to the present situation. He's not in charge. Nor is Tucker. Or Hannity. I think you fail to recognize how few watch the news.

End of the day, there was one person who could've changed this. His name is Joe Biden. And he doesn't exactly have a strong track record when it comes to Ukraine.

Ukraine isn't worth dying for. They'll go from being ruled by one corrupt government to being ruled by another corrupt country. Godspeed to them.

 

[PerthDomer]

You’re just making shit up. This is categorically false.

Trump complemented putin every chance he could get before this. Just look at Helsinki. Hell. Look at his take on Putin's beautiful peacekeepers.

 

[BilboBaggins]

"Right" has nothing to do with it. The Realist model is descriptive, not prescriptive. And it's done a pretty admirable job of predicting how nations like Russia will act in any given situation.

That's not the dichotomy we have before us. Russia is constrained in innumerable ways--by their small natural-resource-based economy, their low birth rates, their lack of innovation, their aging military technology, etc. That their present capability and sphere of influence allows them some room to behave badly does not mean they're free to do anything they want anywhere.

Are you familiar with Taleb's black swan theory? Our elites are terrible at planning around low-probability but huge-liability tail risks. Engaging Russia in direct military conflict would raise the odds of the world ending by several orders of magnitude. What are those odds starting at now? How high would they go if we started shooting at the Putin's army? Is it worth taking that risk to stop a petty authoritarian from rolling over an eastern European country of little strategic importance to NATO?

The Slavic world has had broadband internet access for a long time. They know exactly how Westerners live.

We allowed Russia to become a kleptocracy when the USSR fell in 1989. Putin is the "strongman" who holds the pathetic farce together. This is as much about maintaining his legitimacy as a ruler ("based" Putin, leader of the Holy Rus, proudly opposing the imperialism of GloboHomo, etc.) as it is about anything else. As I've said before, Putin is not acting from a position of strength here. It's never a good idea to interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake.

I am not advocating for "engaging Russia in direct military conflict," I think the status quo of the last 40+ years is that nations fight each other via proxies. This is of course why the Iranian use of proxies was labeled as the "largest state sponsor of terrorism" despite Iran not supporting any Wahhabist BS. Should a nation like Ukraine, overwhelmingly in favor of opposing Russian conquest, not be supported, and funded? They should just fold?

The dichotonomy here is to let a war of conquest, in Europe no less, stand unpunished and create an area wherein the aggressor nation should be kowtowed to...or, oppose them via proxies as was the norm for decades. China/USSR vs US in Vietnam comes to mind. USSR vs US in Afghanistan. US vs Iran in Iraq as well.

The last time the US supported a country against a Russian war of conquest, it bled the Russian Empire 2.0 dry and the USSR collapsed shortly afterward. Today, with Russian Empire 3.0, likely cannot afford to occupy Ukraine. If the Ukrainians are willing to fight, what is the geopolitical downside to helping them?

 

[irishjet34]

Can you please stop posting with an agenda on a thread dedicated to updating on Ukraine? What do you think posting your agenda brings to the thread? It is embarrassing that you throw out stuff that cannot be backed up with any educated form of information. Some of us have an interest in the situation and appreciate not having to deal with your type of BS. I have worked with quite a few countries in the region in the Aerospace/Defense industry. This thread has been very good for giving updated twitter information that I do not follow and giving informed opinions without trying to gaslight things. Whiskey does a great job of this without attacking. GATTACA, I am a long time follower of the site (post next to never) and love your post in the recruiting threads just do not think we need to gaslight issues going on in the current state of everything.

 

[GATTACA!]

GATTACA, I am a long time follower of the site (post next to never) and love your post

Thanks. I appreciate it.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Let’s just say we do implement a no fly zone. Next logical step is clearing the airspace. What’s next? Russian or allied plane is attacked which triggers NATO. What is Russia realistically gonna do about it at that point? It can’t even get food and gas to its forward units in Ukraine and we really think they will be able to advance a second western front against NATO? Just curious what are we actually afraid he will do? Just rip a nuke at that point?

 

[drayer54]

Trump didn't call Putin's invasion of Ukraine savvy? Hmmm must have been fake news.

Here's the head chode the day before the invasion blaming Biden's policies (even though Trump was the one that withheld military aid to Ukraine and was buddy buddy with Putin) and saying that "Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it." Because somehow it's the "lame street medias" fault that everyone hates a dictator that just invaded a sovereign nation.

Tucker Carlson: Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it

Tucker Carlson reacts to the latest developments in Ukraine, and says all Americans will suffer because of Biden's policies.

www.foxnews.com

Can I assign the views of Joy Reid to every Dem in the country?

My take is that some conservative types have pointed out that Putin may have used this moment of weakness (Biden) to advance. His inept withdrawal from Afghanistan was surely eye opening to those who oppose us. However, this idea that conservatives are with Putin is purely a nasty rhetoric thing from the left that doesn’t land outside of the left-wing bubble and is just not reality.

 

[drayer54]

Let’s just say we do implement a no fly zone. Next logical step is clearing the airspace. What’s next? Russian or allied plane is attacked which triggers NATO. What is Russia realistically gonna do about it at that point? It can’t even get food and gas to its forward units in Ukraine and we really think they will be able to advance a second western front against NATO? Just curious what are we actually afraid he will do? Just rip a nuke at that point?

I think it’s hard to do logistically. Ukraine is big East to West and you don’t have a good base for air support. I think the big fear is Putin goes nuclear in response.

Seems like the thinking is that we’re better to shove weapons in the back and let the Ukrainians kill and stall as much as possible to make this war as painful as possible to apply more and more pressure to Putin. I don’t think NATO is at all afraid (anymore) of the Russian army. It’s pretty apparent that a Russian invasion in NATO wouldn’t go far.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Trump didn't call Putin's invasion of Ukraine savvy? Hmmm must have been fake news.

Here's the head chode the day before the invasion blaming Biden's policies (even though Trump was the one that withheld military aid to Ukraine and was buddy buddy with Putin) and saying that "Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it." Because somehow it's the "lame street medias" fault that everyone hates a dictator that just invaded a sovereign nation.

Tucker Carlson: Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it

Tucker Carlson reacts to the latest developments in Ukraine, and says all Americans will suffer because of Biden's policies.

www.foxnews.com

Absolutely Trump did and it was deplorable.

Can you agree Biden's policies didn't help any?

• Remove sanctions from Nord Stream 2 and ask Ukraine to accept payments from Germany for loss of fuel revenue (this directly strengthens Russia's hand and weakens Ukraine's)
• Withheld aid until "Military reforms" were displayed

We haven't been a pro-Ukraine country up until recently when an invasion became imminent.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I think it’s hard to do logistically. Ukraine is big East to West and you don’t have a good base for air support. I think the big fear is Putin goes nuclear in response.

Seems like the thinking is that we’re better to shove weapons in the back and let the Ukrainians kill and stall as much as possible to make this war as painful as possible to apply more and more pressure to Putin. I don’t think NATO is at all afraid (anymore) of the Russian army. It’s pretty apparent that a Russian invasion in NATO wouldn’t go far.

I mean I have zero doubts an allied Air Force could quickly and edficiently clear the Ukrainian airspace but there would likely be a few incidents and engagements.

Is that enough to provoke a response from Russia? Ok he claims war against NATO. Now what? What is he actually gonna do at that point? He is cut off from the world. He won’t be able to build up his equipment. His country is now on the verge of internal revolt. It’s unlikely other countries would join him.

He started this and the whole world knows it because Biden undercut all his propaganda of intent with real time intel. He invaded anyway. He is shelling the cities and civilian areas. The whole world can see this. His equipment is old and being abandoned on the regular. They are losing generals on the front lines. The whole world can see this. He absolutely will not be able to make a ground incursion into a NATO allied country of any effect. A purely defensive NFZ is a logical response to provide aid and inhibit the use of air space for offensive actions by Putin. He will of course view this as an offensive action but it doesn’t really matter what he thinks or how he publically states he views it. The whole world knows. Would he drop a single nuke somewhere? Where would that be? If he did one, he might as well empty their arsenal because if he drops one he’d be incinerated immediately any way.

If Russia is a rational actor with its nukes that they appear to have been since it fell, I have a very hard time thinking there aren’t control rails on Russias side that would prevent him from doing that in response to a NFZ.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Absolutely Trump did and it was deplorable.

Can you agree Biden's policies didn't help any?

• Remove sanctions from Nord Stream 2 and ask Ukraine to accept payments from Germany for loss of fuel revenue (this directly strengthens Russia's hand and weakens Ukraine's)
• Withheld aid until "Military reforms" were displayed

We haven't been a pro-Ukraine country up until recently when an invasion became imminent.

If you accept that what Trump did was deplorable (extorting Zelensky, fracturing NATO etc) then you must accept that there would likely have to be some repair work for Biden to do to reassure NATO Allies that the partnership is strong considering the last four years it was under strain. Make no mistake that France, Germany, etc were making plans for a non NATO future if Trump remained in office. John Bolton said as much as he believed Trump was planning to pull us out of NATO…just recently. Fwiw.

It’s my understanding that Biden was making some political concessions to assuage the NATO countries and NordStream was one of those. I remember reading something about that a while back. Makes me realize what a massive shift in German thinking has occurred recently with them going along with stopping the certification of the project completely in response to Ukraine.

As far as requiring Ukraine to show military forms or whatever you said that’s literally normal as condition of foreign aid. That’s the complete opposite of what Trump did. Conditioning aid on positive steps to improve the stability of the country by removing bad actions and bad actors is a legitimate condition of aid and signals an intent from the country seeking aid to make positive steps to joint the club. Everyone knows Russia has been attempting to destabilize Ukraine and it’s efforts to join Europe. Trumps request for dirt on Biden to Zelensky is a literal corrupt act. It’s the complete opposite of what a stable democracy is about and is exactly the kind of corruption Russia used against Ukraine and what type of corruption the US wanted to see Ukraine remove.

I’m not defending one or the other as I’m not in the room but it can’t be overlooked that we were in weaker position regarding NATO when Biden over.

I don’t think you can say we weren’t a pro Ukranian country up until this either. We clearly know how important Ukraine was as we have been supporting democratic efforts in the country for decades. Maybe not as fervently as needed but multiple presidents have had their hand in this honey pot. Clearly there have been ups and downs and Russias interference and corruption of the process has been clearly documented. But to DC it’s a very important geopolitical entity and we would be right helping them to form a stable democracy and become a contributor to the world economy. That’s in addition to adding a further block on the democratic eastern wall. People saying Ukraine doesn’t matter to the west is best said in the original Russian language (meaning it’s a Putin talking point)

 

[PerthDomer]

Russia has apparently been putting more aircraft in harms way. Confirmed casualties from land based air defense has been going up.



Eventually Putin is going to start just throwing bodies at this. With their loss of equipment and fragile supply lines that will lamely go poorly.

 

[laughingirish90]

Why do people keep saying the right admires Putin? Everyone I know that is conservative hates Putin and his tactics.

maybe because a lot of the people on the left in hollywood, Washington and on the air on CNN and MSNBC went to school at scUM which is why they like to spread lies and hate so much

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Trump didn't call Putin's invasion of Ukraine savvy? Hmmm must have been fake news.

Here's the head chode the day before the invasion blaming Biden's policies (even though Trump was the one that withheld military aid to Ukraine and was buddy buddy with Putin) and saying that "Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it." Because somehow it's the "lame street medias" fault that everyone hates a dictator that just invaded a sovereign nation.

Tucker Carlson: Americans have been trained to hate Putin, and will suffer because of it

Tucker Carlson reacts to the latest developments in Ukraine, and says all Americans will suffer because of Biden's policies.

www.foxnews.com

Im actually not a big fan of Tucker Carlson. I feel like he repeats himself night after night as does Hannity, however nothing you posted shows him admiring or praising Putin. That is a left narrative that factually doesnt even occur in the video you posted in an effort to prove it does. In a year’s time, your guy has proven to be a huge detriment to our country, but you’re so deep in your narrative it wont ever matter what happens in the real world. Trump and fox news bad, Joe good.

I mean people in Ukraine are being attacked mostly unprovoked and innocent people including children are being killed and the best you can do is sit here and contribute nonsense about how republicans and fox news “admire” putin and Russia because of a bullshit Democratic narrative. Do better.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Russia has apparently been putting more aircraft in harms way. Confirmed casualties from land based air defense has been going up.



Eventually Putin is going to start just throwing bodies at this. With their loss of equipment and fragile supply lines that will lamely go poorly.

He’d have to start conscripting the population and then the misinformation war really becomes exposed.

 

[GATTACA!]

Im actually not a big fan of Tucker Carlson. I feel like he repeats himself night after night as does Hannity, however nothing you posted shows him admiring or praising Putin. That is a left narrative that factually doesnt even occur in the video you posted in an effort to prove it does. In a year’s time, your guy has proven to be a huge detriment to our country, but you’re so deep in your narrative it wont ever matter what happens in the real world. Trump and fox news bad, Joe good.

I mean people in Ukraine are being attacked mostly unprovoked and innocent people including children are being killed and the best you can do is sit here and contribute nonsense about how republicans and fox news “admire” putin and Russia because of a bullshit Democratic narrative. Do better.

Yepp like I said must have been fake news lol.

And yeah “my guy” Biden, the only democrat I’ve ever and may ever vote for is certainly not my guy. Some of us just have a moral compass and couldn’t stomach any more “winning”.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Im actually not a big fan of Tucker Carlson. I feel like he repeats himself night after night as does Hannity, however nothing you posted shows him admiring or praising Putin. That is a left narrative that factually doesnt even occur in the video you posted in an effort to prove it does. In a year’s time, your guy has proven to be a huge detriment to our country, but you’re so deep in your narrative it wont ever matter what happens in the real world. Trump and fox news bad, Joe good.

I mean people in Ukraine are being attacked mostly unprovoked and innocent people including children are being killed and the best you can do is sit here and contribute nonsense about how republicans and fox news “admire” putin and Russia because of a bullshit Democratic narrative. Do better.

This will be the last time I post about this but it’s obvious that there is a small, but real portion of the American population that is sympathetic to Russia and Putin. It’s not mainstream but it is there and it’s vocal as well as there are those who have economic and financial as well as political ties to them in this country. Again it’s likely minority and that’s fine. Not a conspiracy. You can refuse to see this or not. I can’t help you there. I posted a video from the American First PAC conference just last week where white nationalists got together and vocally celebrated Russia invading Ukraine and the crowd was chanting Putins name. This same dude introduced MGT as the keynote speaker. If you can watch that and dismiss it then there is literally nothing I’m ever going to say to o once you otherwise.

I can’t help you see that Fox News, specifically Tucker Carleson and Laura Ingram have been minimizing, whitewashing and otherwise being at a minimum against Ukraine for years now. I don’t have the time nor the effort so whatever. But there is this

Former Fox News Director Jack Hanick Indicted for Helping Russia

An American TV producer was arrested in London and now faces criminal charges for working with a sanctioned Russian billionaire. He used to work for Fox News.

www.thedailybeast.com

Here is the DOJ filing lest I get accused by the defenders of the faith for being biased. TV Producer For Russian Oligarch Charged With Violating Crimea-Related Sanctions. His role was working for an oligarch and setting up conservative based networks in eastern European countries like Bulgaria and Greece. He was brought on to help them set up these networks to mimic Fox’s “success”. If you think this is in the best interests of America and that he is the only one out there then bless your heart. Read the filing. He was arrested because it’s behavior that is demonstrable against the the best interests of America.

If you search on the internet right now you will find multiple articles about how the GOP is incoherent on its stance on Ukraine specifically because there are three vocal factions in the GOP. The Russian sympathizers, the hawks and the do nothings. This isn’t a Democratic narrstive lmao. It’s clearly demonstrable. Again I’m not going to waste my time researching that for you. Suffice to say Trump rewrote the GOP stance on Ukraine and has done nothing but publically fellate Putin. He can say whatever he wants but his actions were obvious to everyone including our NATO Allies. But whatever. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to rectify this picture in my head. If it’s legit it’s sad if it’s trolling is sad. But whatever.

This guy who praised Putin at AFPAC (above) and was given a verified status on Truth App btw and it just was posted like a few hours ago. Clearly people in this minority know who he is and want to disseminate his thoughts.


I’m not going to post any and all evidence to convince any of the defenders of faith that I’m right and they are wrong and it won’t stop them from arriving on the scene to protect their faith. It’s not going to matter anyway. Ignoring this faction through is true ostrich head in the sand shit. I’m not saying anyone is right or anyone is wrong just posting my thoughts.

 

[PerthDomer]

maybe because a lot of the people on the left in hollywood, Washington and on the air on CNN and MSNBC went to school at scUM which is why they like to spread lies and hate so much

It's horseshoe theory. You've seen far left people say nice things about Putin/say they're no different from the US. On the far right you get homophobes and white supremacists who like Russian religious ethno nationalism and American firsters who think everyone should get a sphere of influence and call it a day.

Tucker's Hungary/Russian kick is because the countries are very in your face anti immigrant/anti gay/"traditional values". Anyone paying attention knows those places have absurdly high abortion rates and are much less religious than the US.

The reason the GOP had russophiles until at least recently was that the isolationists/fringe are a larger part of the coalition than pre Trump and some left wing populists became republican post Trump. Hopefully Putin being revealed for what he is empowers reasonable Republicans on foreign policy, and emptying Putins war chest stops his disinformation machine.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I can’t get enough watching the farmers roll off with the Russian equipment.