COVID-19

[tussin]

All drugs are currently "experimental" when it comes to covid. There are; however, many drugs that have gone through the rigors of years of trial that are currently being repurposed that have a long record of study for side effects.

No, they aren't. That's bullshit. The vaccines went through well-designed trials with tens of thousands of participants -- these companies invest tens of millions into study design, participant recruitment, implementation, and analysis of these trials. Downplaying that is irresponsible.

On the other hand, "repurposing" a drug for a different disease, with different dosages, with no understanding on the side effects on individuals with COVID, and no studies of efficacy (beyond observational ones with limited sample sizes) is experimental by definition. I don't understand how someone can disregard a vaccine with reliable data related to safety and efficacy and advocate for something like Ivermectin (which even if safe is not a known quantity when it comes to efficacy).

 

[yankeehater]

No, they aren't. That's bullshit. The vaccines went through well-designed trials with tens of thousands of participants -- these companies invest tens of millions into study design, participant recruitment, implementation, and analysis of these trials. Downplaying that is irresponsible.

On the other hand, "repurposing" a drug for a different disease, with different dosages, with no understanding on the side effects on individuals with COVID, and no studies of efficacy (beyond observational ones with limited sample sizes) is experimental by definition. I don't understand how someone can disregard a vaccine with reliable data related to safety and efficacy and advocate for something like Ivermectin (which even if safe is not a known quantity when it comes to efficacy).

I did not disregard the vaccine. I do question boosters every five months for the duration of our lives. Show me a study for that?!?!

I also don't understand those that are vax or nothing. People I know, vaxxed or not, who had a plan when they became infected and ALL fared well (that includes a friend who just underwent their second bout with cancer so could not get the vax and another with a white blood cell disorder). The ones who waited until day 8, which I am assuming Oscar de la Hoya did, had a much tougher time with it.

 

[Valpodoc85]

Thank you so much for the response. I know you are aware each vaccine contains spike protein or trains the body to produce it. How are the spike proteins not attaching to the ACE2 receptors throughout your body as are SAR2? There are now studies showing the vaccine is still moving throughout the body after six months of injection. I would love to see more time and study before endless boosters becomes the answer. I still question why the US Gov't stopped funding Covid Therapeutics once the vaccines were rolled out.

I would propose a more pragmatic response. Are there demonstrated effects of the spike protein binding? Realistically if there are they happen very, very infrequently. Also, it would seem your body at some point will be dealing with this issue either as vaccine or active infection. Remember you are trading the risk of unprotected covid infection for some smaller risk of the vaccine.

 

[PerthDomer]

Thank you for a rational response BTW. Is there nuance in your examples in that levels are only monitored once they hit a critical care need? Are there studies that take early intervention? Zinc/D as soon as someone feels any symptoms for example, not as soon as they are admitted to the hospital. That could be two weeks of difference.

The desaturation point seems very important. The earlier you catch it the better correct? For any respiratory issue - not just Covid. Having an actual metric to follow is more effective for most indestructible men than "come back if you feel worse". I bring it up b/c this was my downfall. I probably would have been back in to the doctor 3-4 days sooner and received a steroid and inhaler that would have been a much better outcome for me. Not to mention - with reduced oxygenation you lose some ability to think straight and your energy level blows so without a clearer decision point it is easier to punt.

Basically you tell anyone if it feels harder to breathe or you get chest pain come in. There have been trials of zinc ad nauseum for COVID and vitamin D in other diseases. Zinc has impact in those with severe deficiency in other diseases and helps with GI illnesses.

Hopefully Fluvoxamine pans out as early trials show it decreasing severe disease by 25%.

In terms of mortality and severe disease COVID is worse than influenza in terms of mortality for everyone over 4. If I had a teen I'd get them vaccinated.

 

[PerthDomer]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a...ors-fear-a-covid-peak-may-still-be-weeks-away. Hey look we've got death panels in Idaho. I thought conservatives used to be against this?

 

[BrownerandFry]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a...ors-fear-a-covid-peak-may-still-be-weeks-away. Hey look we've got death panels in Idaho. I thought conservatives used to be against this?

Let me phrase this with great delicacy and a belief that each life matters.

"Bad Facts make bad laws"

And BAd Pandemics make for queasy medical choices.

And I want not to be flippant, but a combat medic, when executing triage (occasionally, but not always, under hostile fire) is. it seems, a Death Panel of One.

But with you, Perth Domer, I am here to listen..

The family and I are trying to figure this out, and its a work in progress. We will move AWA Y from merchants who do not have a mandatory vaccination policy.

Why take the risk?

 

[PerthDomer]

Let me phrase this with great delicacy and a belief that each life matters.

"Bad Facts make bad laws"

And BAd Pandemics make for queasy medical choices.

And I want not to be flippant, but a combat medic, when executing triage (occasionally, but not always, under hostile fire) is. it seems, a Death Panel of One.

But with you, Perth Domer, I am here to listen..

The family and I are trying to figure this out, and its a work in progress. We will move AWA Y from merchants who do not have a mandatory vaccination policy.

Why take the risk?

I'm an ICU doc. Triage is a fact in medicine. Your wait time in ED'S varies based on your severity of illness and what's going on even without COVID. I'm just a bit ticked at the plasticity of ideology that goes into opposing anything constructive in medical policy. Heart attacks, pancreatic, appendicitis still happen. People are dying of things not named COVID because of the hospital situation.

 

[Irishize]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a...ors-fear-a-covid-peak-may-still-be-weeks-away. Hey look we've got death panels in Idaho. I thought conservatives used to be against this?

Considering how many Americans get their news from talks shows & social media, maybe the Idaho Hospitals are big Jimmy Kimmel fans & took his recent monologue to heart. LOL

 

[bobbyok1]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/as...-be-weeks-away. Hey look we've got death panels in Idaho. I thought conservatives used to be against this?

Well there have been a large number of Californians moving there, so . . .

Just having some fun to lighten the mood

 

[bobbyok1]

No, they aren't. That's bullshit. The vaccines went through well-designed trials with tens of thousands of participants -- these companies invest tens of millions into study design, participant recruitment, implementation, and analysis of these trials. Downplaying that is irresponsible.

On the other hand, "repurposing" a drug for a different disease, with different dosages, with no understanding on the side effects on individuals with COVID, and no studies of efficacy (beyond observational ones with limited sample sizes) is experimental by definition. I don't understand how someone can disregard a vaccine with reliable data related to safety and efficacy and advocate for something like Ivermectin (which even if safe is not a known quantity when it comes to efficacy).

I remained confused how Ivermectin can be viewed as an "unknown" with regards to efficacy.

63 Studies, 45 Peer-Reviewed, 31 Randomized Controlled Trials show nearly 70% average in improvement with significant reductions in hospitalizations and deaths.

https://c19ivermectin.com/
https://ivmmeta.com/#fig_fpe

 

[Valpodoc85]

I’m a physician and treat covid patients. We do not use ivermectin. I know of no physicians who use it or would use it. We are struggling with this disease as it kills our friends and neighbors and are not using it because it does not work clinically

 

[bobbyok1]

I’m a physician and treat covid patients. We do not use ivermectin. I know of no physicians who use it or would use it. We are struggling with this disease as it kills our friends and neighbors and are not using it because it does not work clinically

I understand your position. I have a brother who had COVID for 3 weeks. Was struggling to breath, to the point he couldn't get up from a chair to answer his door. He is 50, good health overall, a union roofer.

Because he has always been averse to going to the doctor I told him of a Tele-med option to get Ivermectin, Azithromycin, and Zinc. He said within 12 hours he could tell he was already much better. 24 hours he went for a walk in his neighborhood. 72 hours he felt nearly 100%, and went back to work.

I know doctors who do prescribe it, especially those who emphasize early treatment to avoid hospitalization. I've talked with them personally. I don't know what else to say other than there seems to be a difference in treatment approaches regardless of what number of doctors who do and do not use Ivermectin or early treatment multi-drug therapies which include it.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I’m a physician and treat covid patients. We do not use ivermectin. I know of no physicians who use it or would use it. We are struggling with this disease as it kills our friends and neighbors and are not using it because it does not work clinically

Curious what your early treatment protocol is.

 

[Valpodoc85]

I’m a surgeon. If you see me early it is not good.

 

[IrishRazor82]

I’m a physician and treat covid patients. We do not use ivermectin. I know of no physicians who use it or would use it. We are struggling with this disease as it kills our friends and neighbors and are not using it because it does not work clinically

You should try it if you see people actually struggling with COVID and there's a wealth of studies signaling as such. Have you ever heard of the COVID front line group, which includes the most citest lung specialist in history?

I'm not a Doctor and I know what's typically next "you don't know better than doctors", but I trust data over doctors and trust a doctor with data above all else.

I also oversee a vast medical network including ~48,000 pharmacies and ~12,000 clinics/hospitals/individual practices. The lack od uniform data and transparency on COVID is unlike anything I've seen before.

 

[Valpodoc85]

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

current NIH ivermectin guidelines

 

[Irish#1]

You should try it if you see people actually struggling with COVID and there's a wealth of studies signaling as such. Have you ever heard of the COVID front line group, which includes the most citest lung specialist in history?

I'm not a Doctor and I know what's typically next "you don't know better than doctors", but I trust data over doctors and trust a doctor with data above all else.

I also oversee a vast medical network including ~48,000 pharmacies and ~12,000 clinics/hospitals/individual practices. The lack od uniform data and transparency on COVID is unlike anything I've seen before.

Telling a surgeon how to treat his patients. Priceless!

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Telling a surgeon how to treat his patients. Priceless!

Microcosm of our backwards society.

 

[NDdomer2]

The hospital system I work just released updated statement on Ivermectin Rx for COVID-19.

Operational details:
Ivermectin is an antiparasitic agent that is FDA-approved for treatment of strongyloidiasis, scabies, pediculosis (lice infestation), and onchocerciasis. Ivermectin can be prescribed in tablet form or topically for these parasitic conditions. Although ivermectin has some in vitro activity against some viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the concentrations required exceed those achieved in plasma and lung tissue with safe dosing in vivo. The quality of available clinical trial evidence with ivermectin is limited, and available evidence failed to show a reduction in mortality, viral clearance, or symptom duration. In ambulatory patients the evidence is also very uncertain, and available data fail to show any benefit in terms of avoidance of progression to severe disease, or viral clearance at day 7. Ivermectin is generally well tolerated in doses typically used to treat parasitic infections, but the drug has risk of significant toxicity at higher doses.

• Ivermectin is not authorized or approved by the FDA for prevention or treatment of COVID-19.

• Given the lack of evidence of benefit, both the NIH and Infectious Disease Society of America COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines recommend against use of Ivermectin for ambulatory or hospitalized patients to prevent or treat COVID-19, unless in the context of a clinical trial.

• A joint statement released on 9/1/21 by the American Medical Association, the American Pharmacists Association, and the American Society of Health-system Pharmacists strongly opposes the ordering, prescribing, or dispensing of Ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 outside of a clinical trial. Our physician and pharmacy leadership concur with this joint statement.

• The CDC issued a Health Advisory on 8/26/21 that noted a dramatic increase in Ivermectin prescribing through retail pharmacy as well as reports of toxicity from individuals using over the counter veterinary preparations of Ivermectin to self-treat COVID-19. Adverse effects from Ivermectin misuse and overdose are increasing, as evidenced by an increase in calls to poison control centers in multiple states.

•Providers should educate patient about the risks of taking ivermectin without a prescription, or ingesting Ivermectin formulations meant for external use or formulations meant for veterinary use.

• Patients should be encouraged instead to get vaccinated against COVID-19, wear masks in indoor public spaces, practice social distancing, avoid crowds, and practice regular hand hygiene.

• Advise patients to immediately seek medical treatment if they have taken Ivermectin and are experiencing symptoms of toxicity such as gastrointestinal effects (nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea), headache, blurred vision, dizziness, tachycardia, hypotension, hallucinations, altered mental status/confusion, loss of balance, CNS depression, and seizures. Call the poison control center hotline (1-800-222-1222) for medical management advice.

Resources
AMA, APhA, ASHP statement on ending use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19. https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-apha-ashp-statement-ending-use-ivermectin-treat-covid-19 9/1/2021

Food and Drug Administration- Why you should not use ivermectin to treat or prevent COVID-19. https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19 9/3/2021

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention- Rapid increase in ivermectin prescriptions and reports of severe illness associated with use of products containing ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19. https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/han00449.asp 8/26/2021

National Institutes of Health COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines- Ivermectin. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/ 2/11/2021

Infectious Disease Society of America Guidelines on the Treatment and Management of Patients with COVID-19 https://www.idsociety.org/practice-guideline/covid-19-guideline-treatment-and-management/ 9/3/2021

 

[bobbyok1]

The hospital system I work just released updated statement on Ivermectin Rx for COVID-19.

In a similar fashion, has your hospital system issued an early treatment protocol for COVID-19?

Or are doctors directed to send patients home to rest, keep hydrated, and quarantine, coming back in only if they are having trouble breathing?

I say this in sincerity, not in jest, because that is what nearly everyone I know who has gotten COVID was told (nearly 50 people now), including 6 people I personally know who died, and 2 people I personally know who got second opinions and later took Ivermectin (along with Azithromycin & Zinc) and recovered.

 

[yankeehater]

In a similar fashion, has your hospital system issued an early treatment protocol for COVID-19?

Or are doctors directed to send patients home to rest, keep hydrated, and quarantine, coming back in only if they are having trouble breathing?

I say this in sincerity, not in jest, because that is what nearly everyone I know who has gotten COVID was told (nearly 50 people now), including 6 people I personally know who died, and 2 people I personally know who got second opinions and later took Ivermectin (along with Azithromycin & Zinc) and recovered.

Here is the standard of care my coworker, a woman in her early 50's, was recently given here in LA. She had symptoms, tested positive and went to ER. They sent her home telling her to return if she became "sick." She was not instructed to do anything other than hydrate and rest. Upon returning to the ER about 7 days later, her O2 levels were at 80%. She was admitted and placed on a ventilator and given steroids and remdesivir. She died a few days later.

 

[NDdomer2]

In a similar fashion, has your hospital system issued an early treatment protocol for COVID-19?

Or are doctors directed to send patients home to rest, keep hydrated, and quarantine, coming back in only if they are having trouble breathing?

I say this in sincerity, not in jest, because that is what nearly everyone I know who has gotten COVID was told (nearly 50 people now), including 6 people I personally know who died, and 2 people I personally know who got second opinions and later took Ivermectin (along with Azithromycin & Zinc) and recovered.

By early treatment protocol do you mean recommendations for individuals to self treat without seeing a provider? Absolutely not. Highly unlikely you will find any hospital system doing this as well as anything in regards to Ivermectin due to lack of FDA approval for COVID-19 as well as NIH and Infectious Disease Society of America COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines recommending against it's use.

We do have a COVID19 Treatment Recommendation protocol/algorithm that does include outpatient. We are certainly Rxing and giving a large amount of Regeneron monoclonal antibody cocktail infusions to patients who test positive at our primary care clinics that meet certain guidelines, as well as recommending other OTC type treatments.

Our systems stance on Zinc -

Zinc may possess antiviral properties. It is up to the provider’s discretion if zinc should be prescribed to COVID‐19 patients. a. I‐vite 2 tablets PO daily i. Daily dosing is recommended due to 35 mg of elemental zinc in this product.

I do not see anything in regards to Z-Paks specifically to COVID.

As you can imagine as someone who is non-clinical I am not going to sort through every COVID related protocol we have published internally to share with you, but that doesn't mean it does or doesn't exist.

What I will say is because systems arent Rxing Ivermectrin or many if any other early treatment protocols doesn't mean you should go take Ivermectrin on your own.

 

[NorthDakota]

I’m a surgeon. If you see me early it is not good.

Last time I saw a surgeon quick it was because I snapped my leg lmaooo. Can confirm it was not ideal.

 

[bobbyok1]

By early treatment protocol do you mean recommendations for individuals to self treat without seeing a provider? Absolutely not. Highly unlikely you will find any hospital system doing this as well as anything in regards to Ivermectin due to lack of FDA approval for COVID-19 as well as NIH and Infectious Disease Society of America COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines recommending against it's use.

We do have a COVID19 Treatment Recommendation protocol/algorithm that does include outpatient. We are certainly Rxing and giving a large amount of Regeneron monoclonal antibody cocktail infusions to patients who test positive at our primary care clinics that meet certain guidelines, as well as recommending other OTC type treatments.

Our systems stance on Zinc -

I do not see anything in regards to Z-Paks specifically to COVID.

As you can imagine as someone who is non-clinical I am not going to sort through every COVID related protocol we have published internally to share with you, but that doesn't mean it does or doesn't exist.

What I will say is because systems arent Rxing Ivermectrin or many if any other early treatment protocols doesn't mean you should go take Ivermectrin on your own.

I never suggested in the slightest people taking prescription medications without seeing a medical provider. So, no, to your first question. The suggestion there are not doctors/systems prescribing it is inaccurate. I understand if not in the medical circles you engage with. And I would agree most hospitals/systems are not using Ivermectin (I would argue because the CDC/NIH have illegitimately rejected its use. And yes, the CDC and NIH have been wrong in the past, so let's not be so quick to declare them infallible). I could be misreading your intention, but it seems you are subtly making the inference that "no legitimate doctor would prescribe Ivermectin."

Glad to hear that your practice is indeed using therapeutics such as Regeneron and others. One can only hope that practices begin using such therapeutics as early treatment practices and not exclusively when a patient is experiencing major complications such as trouble breathing.

And I did not expect you to share every protocol your practice/system have published. I was only curious concerning what a common protocol might be once someone is diagnosed with COVID. Since you took the time to express that your view is that Ivermectin was not worthwhile to be considered as an early treatment therapeutic or part of an early treatment multi-drug therapy for a diagnosed COVID case, it seemed reasonable to ask what the common protocol was once a patient was diagnosed with COVID.

 

[bobbyok1]

Here is the standard of care my coworker, a woman in her early 50's, was recently given here in LA. She had symptoms, tested positive and went to ER. They sent her home telling her to return if she became "sick." She was not instructed to do anything other than hydrate and rest. Upon returning to the ER about 7 days later, her O2 levels were at 80%. She was admitted and placed on a ventilator and given steroids and remdesivir. She died a few days later.

All 6 people I personally know who died of COVID had nearly identical medical advice, and sadly, the same outcomes. And this is why I am so adamant on early treatment protocols, and recommending the medical communities who insist on them (few as there are).

 

[Irish#1]

In a similar fashion, has your hospital system issued an early treatment protocol for COVID-19?

Or are doctors directed to send patients home to rest, keep hydrated, and quarantine, coming back in only if they are having trouble breathing?

I say this in sincerity, not in jest, because that is what nearly everyone I know who has gotten COVID was told (nearly 50 people now), including 6 people I personally know who died, and 2 people I personally know who got second opinions and later took Ivermectin (along with Azithromycin & Zinc) and recovered.

Given they took Ivermectin, Azithromycin and Zinc how do you tell which one provided the most benefit?

 

[NDdomer2]

I never suggested in the slightest people taking prescription medications without seeing a medical provider. So, no, to your first question. (1) The suggestion there are not doctors/systems prescribing it is inaccurate. I understand if not in the medical circles you engage with. And I would agree most hospitals/systems are not using Ivermectin (I would argue because the CDC/NIH have illegitimately rejected its use. And yes, (2) the CDC and NIH have been wrong in the past, so let's not be so quick to declare them infallible). (3)I could be misreading your intention, but it seems you are subtly making the inference that "no legitimate doctor would prescribe Ivermectin."

Glad to hear that your practice is indeed using therapeutics such as Regeneron and others. One can only hope that practices begin using such therapeutics as early treatment practices and not exclusively when a patient is experiencing major complications such as trouble breathing.

And I did not expect you to share every protocol your practice/system have published. I was only curious concerning what a common protocol might be once someone is diagnosed with COVID since you took the time to express that your view is that Ivermectin was not worthwhile to be considered as a therapeutic or part of a multi-drug therapy for a diagnosed COVID case.

Bolded 1 - I did not suggest there are not doctors/system Rxing, my suggestion is its far fewer that are than aren't, due to the things i mentioned.

Bolded 2 - I made no comments in regards to if they have been right/wrong in the past or if their rejection of use is the right/wrong thing just point out that it is likely why we are seeing so few providers Rx. One thing to consider, while a provider always wants to make sure they do the best for the patient, they also don't want sued for malpractice. I have no idea if a patient who would have an adverse reaction to Ivermectin would have legal ground to stand on due to these agencies rejecting its use for treatment in this disease. But, nonetheless, something to consider why more aren't Rxing.

Bolded 3 - I make no such inferences. I have not read any of the studies/publications that you have referenced or that may have been provided to this board. I simply provided what the system I work or has as current protocol because it is a common topic of discussion here and it was just updated and sent to leadership today. I hope it acts as reference to what the decision making process is for systems/providers, which I think gives better understanding for both sides of the drugs use arguments. You may be for or against but you may now be able to more accurately question why these agencies aren't supporting the use vs why an organization/person isn't using it.

In general my stance on Ivermectrin is do what you think is best for you and your family, just trying to bring additional information/content in regards to the topic.

 

[bobbyok1]

Bolded 1 - I did not suggest there are not doctors/system Rxing, my suggestion is its far fewer that are than aren't, due to the things i mentioned.

Bolded 2 - I made no comments in regards to if they have been right/wrong in the past or if their rejection of use is the right/wrong thing just point out that it is likely why we are seeing so few providers Rx. One thing to consider, while a provider always wants to make sure they do the best for the patient, they also don't want sued for malpractice. I have no idea if a patient who would have an adverse reaction to Ivermectin would have legal ground to stand on due to these agencies rejecting its use for treatment in this disease. But, nonetheless, something to consider why more aren't Rxing.

Bolded 3 - I make no such inferences. I have not read any of the studies/publications that you have referenced or that may have been provided to this board. I simply provided what the system I work or has as current protocol because it is a common topic of discussion here and it was just updated and sent to leadership today. I hope it acts as reference to what the decision making process is for systems/providers, which I think gives better understanding for both sides of the drugs use arguments. You may be for or against but you may now be able to more accurately question why these agencies aren't supporting the use vs why an organization/person isn't using it.

In general my stance on Ivermectrin is do what you think is best for you and your family, just trying to bring additional information/content in regards to the topic.

It appears I may have read into your comments that which you didn't intend. My apologies. Thanks for the clarifications, and thanks for the work you do in the midst of an extremely trying time for all.

 

[bobbyok1]

Given they took Ivermectin, Azithromycin and Zinc how do you tell which one provided the most benefit?

Great question, and a legitimate one. First, the suggestion is not that Ivermectin alone is the answer. What the studies I have been pointing to is that Ivermectin is A answer as part of a multi-drug early treatment protocol. Concerning its benefits, I would point to the protocols used in the previous, now voluminous, studies I cited early in this thread.

There is now scientific reasoning to support using the above 3 in tandem and not using only Azithromycin and Zinc alone. In short, among other things, Ivermectin acts as ionophore for Zinc, to "open the door" and allow Zinc into cells to fight the virus.

To help lessen the "Ivermectin and COVID" tension, below is a publication from 2018 in the American Journal of Cancer Research showing both the safety of Ivermectin in human use, as well as its ability to act as an ionophore. A quote:

"In humans, its use has improved the nutrition, general health and well-being of billions of people worldwide since it was first used to treat onchocerciasis."

The point here in this linked study is not to show how Ivermectin helps in eradicating the COVID virus (which IS shown in numerous studies I've cited previously in this thread) but to show how Ivermectin is a reasonably safe drug for humans to take when prescribed by a physician, and how it acts as an ionophore (which again opens the door to let Zinc in to fight the virus).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5835698/

P.S. Due to the obviously biased nature of search results of Google when used as a search engine, I would recommend at least trying a search of the same search terms in "Duck Duck Go" and compare what search results you get. Not suggesting Duck Duck Go is superior in quality, it is not. But I would suggest it is more fair in results of a search it presents to you.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I'm an ICU doc. Triage is a fact in medicine. Your wait time in ED'S varies based on your severity of illness and what's going on even without COVID. I'm just a bit ticked at the plasticity of ideology that goes into opposing anything constructive in medical policy. Heart attacks, pancreatic, appendicitis still happen. People are dying of things not named COVID because of the hospital situation.

Thank you for doing what you do.