COVID-19

[Cackalacky2.0]

Fauci tried to walk a fine line trying to claim there was no gain of function research, to the point I thought he was going to say, depends upon what the definition of "is" is.

Fauci lied. I have zero confidence that he will be held to account.

Care to sumamrize for me the assessment that he lied. I'm not seeing anything in tht article pointing to Fauci so Im likely missing key info. I admittedly havent kept up with the Fauci hate part of COVID. I also am waiting for many people who have lied to Congress to get punished.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I forgot to comment on bobbyok's main points. If you get COVID, get early treatment. Sadly, that seems almost non-existent in the United States. Instead we might give them a pulse oximeter and send them on their way and tell them to come back if you have trouble breathing. We are literally doing nothing.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Labor Day weekend reporting significantly impacts the death reporting. Even normal weekend reporting of deaths is typically impacted as not all states report over the weekend. The previous Saturday and Sunday counts were 735 and 864. Certainly a possibility that even more states didn't report over the holiday weekend. Regardless, cases seem to be cresting and deaths should crest soon as well.

My state is peaking right now and its disproportionately children. Some hospitals are full others are close.
https://www.thestate.com/news/corona...253220043.html

A simultaneous uptick in cases of respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, which can be serious for infants and older adults, and a pandemic-driven drop in childhood immunization rates that has left more kids vulnerable to vaccine-preventable illnesses like measles and whooping cough has created a perfect storm of disease for children, said Dr. Caughman Taylor, senior medical director at Prisma Health Children’s Hospital–Midlands.

Most of the children currently hospitalized were not vaccinated against COVID-19, many because they are too young for a shot.

But others who are 12 and older had not been inoculated either, hospital officials said.

None of the teens hospitalized with COVID-19 at Children’s Hospital over the last two weeks were vaccinated, Rye Burch said.

“All of those adolescent children that are here that are severely ill actually didn’t have to be hospitalized if they had just gotten the vaccine,” she said. “So please, please get yourself and your children vaccinated against COVID.”
https://www.thestate.com/news/coronavirus/article253220043.html

https://www.thestate.com/news/coronavirus/article253220043.html

 

[ab2cmiller]

Care to sumamrize for me the assessment that he lied. I'm not seeing anything in tht article pointing to Fauci so Im likely missing key info. I admittedly havent kept up with the Fauci hate part of COVID. I also am waiting for many people who have lied to Congress to get punished.

Paul called him on the carpet numerous times about the US funding gain of function research at the Wuhan lab. I think initially Fauci may have (I can't totally recall) even tried to dismiss the argument by saying that the NIH didn't fund it because it wasn't a direct grant, it was a sub grant. Anyhow, regarding the gain of function stuff, there was a big pissing match where Fauci insisted that there was technically no gain of function research.

The new documents seem to infer that the research did meet even the most restrictive definition of "gain of function".

Fauci has admitted to lying about such things as masks and herd immunity, because it helped achieve short term goals. Hard to give Fauci any benefit of the doubt.

 

[RDU Irish]

Care to sumamrize for me the assessment that he lied. I'm not seeing anything in tht article pointing to Fauci so Im likely missing key info. I admittedly havent kept up with the Fauci hate part of COVID. I also am waiting for many people who have lied to Congress to get punished.

Like with a cloth?

 

[RDU Irish]

My state is peaking right now and its disproportionately children. Some hospitals are full others are close.
https://www.thestate.com/news/corona...253220043.html

Headlining RSV instead of Covid would get a fraction of the clicks. In my wife's hospital, RSV is problematic right now. Covid continues to be found because they look for it - not necessarily the primary cause of hospitalization.

My wife's first nursing job was working the critical care unit at Children's Hospital of Wisconsin - if there was a tragedy on the news within the tri-state area involving a kid, they ended up on her floor. She would be so worried about the most obscure things with our kids - every jet ski doesn't blow up just because you had the one case under your care. TVs don't normally blow up and give a kid 3rd degree burns. Because you see the statistical anomolies does not mean they are normal. Normal to your daily work but not normal outcomes. Same when she worked in child development assessing genetic disorders - highly abnormal stuff that you find yourself worrying about.

Hospitals are where sick people go - funny thing that people are up in arms about finding sick people at hospitals.

 

[tussin]

My state is peaking right now and its disproportionately children. Some hospitals are full others are close.
https://www.thestate.com/news/corona...253220043.html

I'd be curious what percent of the children are in the hospital with COVID as the primary disease or if it's mostly secondary to diseases like RSV (which is quite serious for children).

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I'd be curious what percent of the children are in the hospital with COVID as the primary disease or if it's mostly secondary to diseases like RSV (which is quite serious for children).

IDK. Ill see if I cant tease that out from somewhere.

Ive gotten 2 notifcations from my kid's school this week that my kid was in a class with a kid who tested postive for COVID

 

[notredomer23]

Some of the oral treatments is phase 3 trials we will be getting results on this month or early next. Atea pharmaceuticals with Roche is my favorite to cross the finish line first, but Merck also has a ton of funding and shifted all their efforts there. There are a few others. including a company in Israel Red Hill Bio Pharma, looking to treat severe patients that should have results any day.

$3 Billion worth of funding from the US government is up for grabs for any company that can be successful here.

 

[RDU Irish]

Some of the oral treatments is phase 3 trials we will be getting results on this month or early next. Atea pharmaceuticals with Roche is my favorite to cross the finish line first, but Merck also has a ton of funding and shifted all their efforts there. There are a few others. including a company in Israel Red Hill Bio Pharma, looking to treat severe patients that should have results any day.

$3 Billion worth of funding from the US government is up for grabs for any company that can be successful here.

Why are we not dishing out multivitamin (zinc, D heavy) two week doses at minimum for anyone testing positive. Plus a pulse ox with clear metrics to prompt delivery of an inhaler and steroid on call. Very small cost and probably keeps half the people out of the hospital if we got remotely serious about treating symptoms. It is a suped up common cold virus, not the end of humanity.

 

[notredomer23]

Why are we not dishing out multivitamin (zinc, D heavy) two week doses at minimum for anyone testing positive. Plus a pulse ox with clear metrics to prompt delivery of an inhaler and steroid on call. Very small cost and probably keeps half the people out of the hospital if we got remotely serious about treating symptoms. It is a suped up common cold virus, not the end of humanity.

Those things are great if you’re already mostly healthy and will help you beat COVID quicker. If you’re obese, old, underlying conditions, or all the above, which is most of the country, none of what you said is going to help much. An oral therapeutic is needed. Will also diminish the likelihood of long COVID.

 

[RDU Irish]

Those things are great if you’re already mostly healthy and will help you beat COVID quicker. If you’re obese, old, underlying conditions, or all the above, which is most of the country, none of what you said is going to help much. An oral therapeutic is needed. Will also diminish the likelihood of long COVID.

We are (supposedly) seeing an increase in hospitalizations for younger folks - promoting keeping them out of the hospital improves outcomes for everyone since hospitals can then focus on the unhealthy. 18 months in and we are doing a shittier job than ever of promoting effective, inexpensive and abundant therapies for those who test positive. Such a defeatist attitude.

 

[notredomer23]

We are (supposedly) seeing an increase in hospitalizations for younger folks - promoting keeping them out of the hospital improves outcomes for everyone since hospitals can then focus on the unhealthy. 18 months in and we are doing a shittier job than ever of promoting effective, inexpensive and abundant therapies for those who test positive. Such a defeatist attitude.

I don’t think we really disagree I just think you’re overly discounting dedicated therapies while overselling the basics.

If you are healthy and sustain a nutritious diet, I’d argue much of what you’re saying isn’t even necessary and you’ll get over it quickly. Healthy living is the real solution. As someone that wants to open a gym in the next year or so, I find it incredibly frustrating that health and fitness have not been promoted more, probably at fear of being canceled by the body positivity crowd.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Why are we not dishing out multivitamin (zinc, D heavy) two week doses at minimum for anyone testing positive. Plus a pulse ox with clear metrics to prompt delivery of an inhaler and steroid on call. Very small cost and probably keeps half the people out of the hospital if we got remotely serious about treating symptoms. It is a suped up common cold virus, not the end of humanity.

​​​​​​Something something "that's socialism!"....

 

[PerthDomer]

Why are we not dishing out multivitamin (zinc, D heavy) two week doses at minimum for anyone testing positive. Plus a pulse ox with clear metrics to prompt delivery of an inhaler and steroid on call. Very small cost and probably keeps half the people out of the hospital if we got remotely serious about treating symptoms. It is a suped up common cold virus, not the end of humanity.

Because steroids show effect after you desaturate (you'd be in the hospital) and the home pulse ox's aren't very specific (they let you know if you desaturate but also tell a lot of people without desaturations that they've desaturated). Zinc and vitamin d administration don't show impact in mortality/morbidity. Critically ill patients tend to have lover vitamin D but giving vitamin d and normalizing their levels doesn't improve outcomes. There's no clear evidence keeping it normal in outpts. Helps. Early MABs rwmdesivir and steroids are what we have but they all pale in comparison to vaccinations.

 

[RDU Irish]

Because steroids show effect after you desaturate (you'd be in the hospital) and the home pulse ox's aren't very specific (they let you know if you desaturate but also tell a lot of people without desaturations that they've desaturated). Zinc and vitamin d administration don't show impact in mortality/morbidity. Critically ill patients tend to have lover vitamin D but giving vitamin d and normalizing their levels doesn't improve outcomes. There's no clear evidence keeping it normal in outpts. Helps. Early MABs rwmdesivir and steroids are what we have but they all pale in comparison to vaccinations.

Honestly curious if you or others have suggestions on treatment methods/tactics for those testing positive to attack the illness versus sitting back waiting to get sick enough to be hospitalized or not. Wouldn't monitoring pulse ox lead to quicker application of steroid and help prevent hospitalization? Even if the device (and user) are less than perfect it is infinitely better than flying blind. Isn't that pulse ox drop a significant tipping point? Vaxed or not - if/when you get Covid this seems to be one of the top issues to stay on top of. Even if your levels stay up and you never need treatment - would give peace of mind probably keeping people out of clinics/hospitals that are fine but convinced they are dying b/c the world has convinced them Covid is a death sentence.

Prevention goes beyond "don't get it in the first place" - you can take action to improve your body's ability to fight back and win, as well as take earlier intervention if needed. Just weird to me that unless it is a new/novel therapeutic people balk at the suggestion that there are ways to combat a respiratory virus. Same people apoplectic over "long covid" don't want to take actions to shorten the illness and quicken the recovery.

18 months in and there is zero admission, let alone consensus on what to do leading up to the test and shortly after testing positive. Snarky "get vaccinated" is about all that the lockdown crowd knows how to chirp.

 

[TorontoGold]

Honestly curious if you or others have suggestions on treatment methods/tactics for those testing positive to attack the illness versus sitting back waiting to get sick enough to be hospitalized or not. Wouldn't monitoring pulse ox lead to quicker application of steroid and help prevent hospitalization? Even if the device (and user) are less than perfect it is infinitely better than flying blind. Isn't that pulse ox drop a significant tipping point? Vaxed or not - if/when you get Covid this seems to be one of the top issues to stay on top of. Even if your levels stay up and you never need treatment - would give peace of mind probably keeping people out of clinics/hospitals that are fine but convinced they are dying b/c the world has convinced them Covid is a death sentence.

Prevention goes beyond "don't get it in the first place" - you can take action to improve your body's ability to fight back and win, as well as take earlier intervention if needed. Just weird to me that unless it is a new/novel therapeutic people balk at the suggestion that there are ways to combat a respiratory virus. Same people apoplectic over "long covid" don't want to take actions to shorten the illness and quicken the recovery.

18 months in and there is zero admission, let alone consensus on what to do leading up to the test and shortly after testing positive. Snarky "get vaccinated" is about all that the lockdown crowd knows how to chirp.

The easiest way to reduce hospitalization and severity is to get vaccinated.

Who's dealing with the logistics with these therapeutics? Who's paying for them?

 

[RDU Irish]

The easiest way to reduce hospitalization and severity is to get vaccinated.

Who's dealing with the logistics with these therapeutics? Who's paying for them?

"Snarky "get vaccinated" is about all that the lockdown crowd knows how to chirp." LOL - did I say your name three times in the mirror or something? Vaccinated still get it - what should they do when they do?

Remdisvir is like $20k. A pulse ox is under $15 on Amazon, steroids are like $5. Vitamins cost more than the prescription steroid - say $10 for a zinc/D/C focused supplement. Inhaler is the expensive part - don't remember but round up to $100 to be safe. Throw in a case of Gatorade to stay hydrated for $30. Still well under the cost of the office visit to the medical provider that doesn't want you in there anyway b/c you have covid.

Love your irony - get vaccinated b/c its free and who in the world could possibly pay for that $200 treatment plan. BTW - get tested every time you cross the street with no regard for cost. No clue how all these drug stores, grocery stores, etc. will handle the logistics and no way the $2 trillion of spending could have covered the cost of increasing supply of these generic items.

 

[ab2cmiller]

The easiest way to reduce hospitalization and severity is to get vaccinated.

Who's dealing with the logistics with these therapeutics? Who's paying for them?

Evidently we the taxpayers are, to the tune of 3.2 billion. Obviously the governments main strategy is vaccines, but they at least recognize that therapeutics are necessary and important.

 

[TorontoGold]

"Snarky "get vaccinated" is about all that the lockdown crowd knows how to chirp." LOL - did I say your name three times in the mirror or something? Vaccinated still get it - what should they do when they do?

Remdisvir is like $20k. A pulse ox is under $15 on Amazon, steroids are like $5. Vitamins cost more than the prescription steroid - say $10 for a zinc/D/C focused supplement. Inhaler is the expensive part - don't remember but round up to $100 to be safe. Throw in a case of Gatorade to stay hydrated for $30. Still well under the cost of the office visit to the medical provider that doesn't want you in there anyway b/c you have covid.

Love your irony - get vaccinated b/c its free and who in the world could possibly pay for that $200 treatment plan. BTW - get tested every time you cross the street with no regard for cost. No clue how all these drug stores, grocery stores, etc. will handle the logistics and no way the $2 trillion of spending could have covered the cost of increasing supply of these generic items.

If you're vaccinated and still get it, you'll likely be able to ride it out without buying all of those items.

I value time, and it's easy to spend 15 min getting a simple vaccine then to stock up the bunker in the chance I get it. Oh, and if I do get it chances are it's reduced to a simple head cold and I don't need to take therapeutics. Or, I could go spend time picking up all those items for a higher cost and waste my time shopping for these things and risk having an infection multitudes worse.

 

[BrownerandFry]

Honestly curious if you or others have suggestions on treatment methods/tactics for those testing positive to attack the illness versus sitting back waiting to get sick enough to be hospitalized or not. Wouldn't monitoring pulse ox lead to quicker application of steroid and help prevent hospitalization? Even if the device (and user) are less than perfect it is infinitely better than flying blind. Isn't that pulse ox drop a significant tipping point? Vaxed or not - if/when you get Covid this seems to be one of the top issues to stay on top of. Even if your levels stay up and you never need treatment - would give peace of mind probably keeping people out of clinics/hospitals that are fine but convinced they are dying b/c the world has convinced them Covid is a death sentence.

Prevention goes beyond "don't get it in the first place" - you can take action to improve your body's ability to fight back and win, as well as take earlier intervention if needed. Just weird to me that unless it is a new/novel therapeutic people balk at the suggestion that there are ways to combat a respiratory virus. Same people apoplectic over "long covid" don't want to take actions to shorten the illness and quicken the recovery.

18 months in and there is zero admission, let alone consensus on what to do leading up to the test and shortly after testing positive. Snarky "get vaccinated" is about all that the lockdown crowd knows how to chirp.

I guess I am chirping GET VACCINATED.

Immo vero, I am shouting GET VACCINATED

Your straw men of the "lockdown crowd" are snarky fake news.

670,000 dead and we're north of a 1,000 Covidcorpses today at midafternoon.

GET VACCINATED.

 

[RDU Irish]

If you're vaccinated and still get it, you'll likely be able to ride it out without buying all of those items.

I value time, and it's easy to spend 15 min getting a simple vaccine then to stock up the bunker in the chance I get it. Oh, and if I do get it chances are it's reduced to a simple head cold and I don't need to take therapeutics. Or, I could go spend time picking up all those items for a higher cost and waste my time shopping for these things and risk having an infection multitudes worse.

If you are young and unvaccinated "you'll likely be able to ride it out without buying all of those items."

For people obsessed about improving odds on an already low probability event..... smh

I am not saying bunker down in case you get it - I am ASKING what strategies are effective IF you DO get it. What is the grocery list for the person who just started feeling like crap and just tested positive? It doesn't exist b/c the broken record crowd is not serious about learning how to live with it. Enjoy your endless boosters - some might prefer to just get it and get it over with at this point.

 

[Irishize]

Evidently we the taxpayers are, to the tune of 3.2 billion. Obviously the governments main strategy is vaccines, but they at least recognize that therapeutics are necessary and important.

That’s my understanding as well. Remdesevir has been given “emergency use” clearance by the FDA and it is available at no charge to most patients since it would likely be denied on most insurances due to off-label use.

My guess is that Rogan bounced back quickly b/c of the MAB & the IV drip vitamins. The rest was window dressing but the risk was minimal so he threw the kitchen sink at it. Thing is, like RDU mentioned; a healthy adult like him likely bounces back quickly regardless. I suspect the MAB & the IV drip cut his down time by 3-4 days. He even admitted that getting shit hammered drunk staying up late likely triggered everything.

I’m vaccinated but I do see never ending boosters coming our way. This is not measles or smallpox or polio that can be eliminated w/ a vaccine. With animal reservoirs it will continue to cross over and mutate from now until infinity. Like the flu shot, by the time we get the C19 shot, the virus will mutate and it will do so perpetually.

 

[RDU Irish]

Because steroids show effect after you desaturate (you'd be in the hospital) and the home pulse ox's aren't very specific (they let you know if you desaturate but also tell a lot of people without desaturations that they've desaturated). Zinc and vitamin d administration don't show impact in mortality/morbidity. Critically ill patients tend to have lover vitamin D but giving vitamin d and normalizing their levels doesn't improve outcomes. There's no clear evidence keeping it normal in outpts. Helps. Early MABs rwmdesivir and steroids are what we have but they all pale in comparison to vaccinations.

Thank you for a rational response BTW. Is there nuance in your examples in that levels are only monitored once they hit a critical care need? Are there studies that take early intervention? Zinc/D as soon as someone feels any symptoms for example, not as soon as they are admitted to the hospital. That could be two weeks of difference.

The desaturation point seems very important. The earlier you catch it the better correct? For any respiratory issue - not just Covid. Having an actual metric to follow is more effective for most indestructible men than "come back if you feel worse". I bring it up b/c this was my downfall. I probably would have been back in to the doctor 3-4 days sooner and received a steroid and inhaler that would have been a much better outcome for me. Not to mention - with reduced oxygenation you lose some ability to think straight and your energy level blows so without a clearer decision point it is easier to punt.

 

[TorontoGold]

If you are young and unvaccinated "you'll likely be able to ride it out without buying all of those items."

For people obsessed about improving odds on an already low probability event..... smh

I am not saying bunker down in case you get it - I am ASKING what strategies are effective IF you DO get it. What is the grocery list for the person who just started feeling like crap and just tested positive? It doesn't exist b/c the broken record crowd is not serious about learning how to live with it. Enjoy your endless boosters - some might prefer to just get it and get it over with at this point.

Obsessed? Dude it takes 15 min. What's the boogeyman around endless boosters? I truly don't get it. I go the dentist every 9 months, is that bad because it's endless?

The point is, you don't need a laundry list if you get vaccinated. If you're vaccinated, you're just battling a flu at that point. If you don't have flu supplies then you're a moron.

 

[yankeehater]

Obsessed? Dude it takes 15 min. What's the boogeyman around endless boosters? I truly don't get it. I go the dentist every 9 months, is that bad because it's endless?

The point is, you don't need a laundry list if you get vaccinated. If you're vaccinated, you're just battling a flu at that point. If you don't have flu supplies then you're a moron.

Does your dentist inject spike proteins in you every 5 months?

Here is one of several studies describing the damage the spike protein inflicts on the blood vessels. I have spoken to several top doctors including a department head at Hoag here in Southern California who could not answer how or even if the spike protein behave differently in the vaccine. They did say they are seeing similar inflammation including cases of myocarditis.

https://www.salk.edu/news-release/th...le-in-illness/

 

[tussin]

There are ROBUST clinical trials around the efficacy of COVID vaccines and years of observational studies that allow researchers to confidently assess the (lack of) long term side serious effects. I have a hard time understanding the individuals that are skeptical of the vaccine and simultaneously advocate for experimental courses of treatment.

That said, I think you can effectively argue that individuals below ~25 years old or so don't really need the vaccine because of relatively mild effect of COVID on younger populations. This is especially true of adolescent individuals where the disease does not pose a serious health risk and those populations have not shown to be a vector of transmission.

Re: boosters, skepticism is deserved. There is a reason why even the CDC is expressing concern and there was backlash within the entire scientific community following Biden's booster recommendation. Of course, if you take a booster antibodies will increase. But antibodies =/= increased efficacy and there needs to be clinical trials prior to broad booster guidance. Every drug has side effects and it makes no sense to take boosters if there is no impact on efficacy (or if they aren't warranted in the first place).

 

[Valpodoc85]

Regarding the vaccine: they are safe. With regards to myocarditis and other rare effects: myocarditis, cavernous venous thrombosis and unprovoked pulmonary embolism are not regarded as current risks of the vaccine as such. These things happen randomly in the population. When a person has an effect and it happens around the time they have been vaccinated it leaves open the possibility the vaccine might be implicated. Often times scholarly papers are written to alert providers to the possibility. It can then be reported and evaluated. So the fact a scholarly article has been written is more of an alert to providers than a risk.
A persons immune system reacts to novel antigens (anything that is not part of itself) on a daily basis. To regard the COVID vaccine or any vaccine for that matter as different than any other antigen fails to recognize the purpose of your immune system. At this point covid is endemic. It’s not going away. You will encounter it at some point and the outcome of that encounter will be more favorable if you are vaccinated.

 

[yankeehater]

Regarding the vaccine: they are safe. With regards to myocarditis and other rare effects: myocarditis, cavernous venous thrombosis and unprovoked pulmonary embolism are not regarded as current risks of the vaccine as such. These things happen randomly in the population. When a person has an effect and it happens around the time they have been vaccinated it leaves open the possibility the vaccine might be implicated. Often times scholarly papers are written to alert providers to the possibility. It can then be reported and evaluated. So the fact a scholarly article has been written is more of an alert to providers than a risk.
A persons immune system reacts to novel antigens (anything that is not part of itself) on a daily basis. To regard the COVID vaccine or any vaccine for that matter as different than any other antigen fails to recognize the purpose of your immune system. At this point covid is endemic. It’s not going away. You will encounter it at some point and the outcome of that encounter will be more favorable if you are vaccinated.

Thank you so much for the response. I know you are aware each vaccine contains spike protein or trains the body to produce it. How are the spike proteins not attaching to the ACE2 receptors throughout your body as are SAR2? There are now studies showing the vaccine is still moving throughout the body after six months of injection. I would love to see more time and study before endless boosters becomes the answer. I still question why the US Gov't stopped funding Covid Therapeutics once the vaccines were rolled out.

 

[yankeehater]

There are ROBUST clinical trials around the efficacy of COVID vaccines and years of observational studies that allow researchers to confidently assess the (lack of) long term side serious effects. I have a hard time understanding the individuals that are skeptical of the vaccine and simultaneously advocate for experimental courses of treatment.

That said, I think you can effectively argue that individuals below ~25 years old or so don't really need the vaccine because of relatively mild effect of COVID on younger populations. This is especially true of adolescent individuals where the disease does not pose a serious health risk and those populations have not shown to be a vector of transmission.

Re: boosters, skepticism is deserved. There is a reason why even the CDC is expressing concern and there was backlash within the entire scientific community following Biden's booster recommendation. Of course, if you take a booster antibodies will increase. But antibodies =/= increased efficacy and there needs to be clinical trials prior to broad booster guidance. Every drug has side effects and it makes no sense to take boosters if there is no impact on efficacy (or if they aren't warranted in the first place).

All drugs are currently "experimental" when it comes to covid. There are; however, many drugs that have gone through the rigors of years of trial that are currently being repurposed that have a long record of study for side effects.