COVID-19

BrownerandFry

Banned
Messages
1,141
Reaction score
198
This comparison that every news source loves to highlight is incomplete without a mention of seasonality. The south had the most cases last summer as well. We won't know the true affect on transmission until the winter.

Waiting can be Fatal.

This is not a "hissing" contest about accuracy.

These are not laboratory rats or hamsters.

These are the ellderly and grandchildren/

It is not hyperbolic to say that IS A MATER of LIFE AND DEATH.
 

Redbar

Well-known member
Messages
3,531
Reaction score
806
I am vaccinated but I understand why people are hesitant. Our current VP stated she wouldn't take Trump's vaccine. But when they assumed power the push started in earnest. It has become political, because everything is political now. Dems and Repubs play fucking regarded games and wonder why one side does not trust the other. It is a Zero sum game.

Which one is the Trump vaccine? I only remember him talking about drinking bleach or putting a UV light in the body. Fortunately for her he never really advocated getting vaccinated (even tho he did first chance he got, very quietly) or even wearing a mask or social distancing for that matter.
 

NDPhilly

Philly Torqued
Messages
16,444
Reaction score
16,737
Waiting can be Fatal.

This is not a "hissing" contest about accuracy.

These are not laboratory rats or hamsters.

These are the ellderly and grandchildren/

It is not hyperbolic to say that IS A MATER of LIFE AND DEATH.

I agree everyone over 50, immunocompromised, obese, & heavy smokers should get the shot. Where they lose me is with the mandates.
 

TNUtoNotreDame

Voted must gracious poster for seven years running
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,973
Which one is the Trump vaccine? I only remember him talking about drinking bleach or putting a UV light in the body. Fortunately for her he never really advocated getting vaccinated (even tho he did first chance he got, very quietly) or even wearing a mask or social distancing for that matter.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/kama...020511962.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/kama...-trump-2020-10

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-on-coronavirus-vaccine/
 

Cackalacky2.0

Specimen
Messages
9,023
Reaction score
8,018
This country is more selfish than intelligent. Vaccinated or not, people are not very well versed on how it all works.

I get the sense that many people are not getting vaccinated out of some sense of defiance because they don't like government. Or they don't like THIS government.

We never would have beaten polio today. It's maddening how unintelligent and angry society has become, both home and abroad. Maddening and sad.

I posted a personal story a bit back and I have some new info to share. The unvaccinated women I mentioned gave Covid to her immunocompromised unvaccinated husband and my uncle that has cerebral palsy and is mentally handicapped. The husband died shortly after getting Covid due to complications from secondary infections and my uncle had to go stay with his sisters who now have covid. They are vaccinated but have since passed it on to multiple other people. All in all as of today 22 people in the immediate circle have contracted Covid from this women including her now dead husband. Only three people have been vaccinated
 

NDBoiler

The Rep Machine
Messages
4,456
Reaction score
1,830
This country is more selfish than intelligent. Vaccinated or not, people are not very well versed on how it all works.

I get the sense that many people are not getting vaccinated out of some sense of defiance because they don't like government. Or they don't like THIS government.

We never would have beaten polio today. It's maddening how unintelligent and angry society has become, both home and abroad. Maddening and sad.

Very well said.
 

Rocket89

Uniform Connoisseur
Messages
2,914
Reaction score
551
I am vaccinated but I understand why people are hesitant. Our current VP stated she wouldn't take Trump's vaccine. But when they assumed power the push started in earnest. It has become political, because everything is political now. Dems and Repubs play fucking regarded games and wonder why one side does not trust the other. It is a Zero sum game.

Doesn't this presume that people who are critical of Harris' statement either A) Respect her opinion and therefore became vaccine hesitant or B) Are in fact making this political themselves and not taking the vaccine and risking the health of Americans out of political spite?

We know the answer isn't A so...

We also know Trump was trying to get the vaccine out before the Election (hmmm!!) and Harris was responding within this environment saying she wouldn't take it before the medical community authorized it, which didn't look likely until well into 2021. Which, is exactly what happened.

Trump played a much bigger political hand (the vaccine will be ready before the election) and lost.
 

TorontoGold

Mr. Dumb Moron
Messages
7,374
Reaction score
5,718
Which one is the Trump vaccine? I only remember him talking about drinking bleach or putting a UV light in the body. Fortunately for her he never really advocated getting vaccinated (even tho he did first chance he got, very quietly) or even wearing a mask or social distancing for that matter.

Wait you're not following the logic, Republican's aren't taking the vaccine because Kamala Harris was skeptical last year of the timing. So, now, after the data has shows its effective they're still listening to her points from last year. Makes clear sense, no? Perfect sense!
 

Redbar

Well-known member
Messages
3,531
Reaction score
806
Wait you're not following the logic, Republican's aren't taking the vaccine because Kamala Harris was skeptical last year of the timing. So, now, after the data has shows its effective they're still listening to her points from last year. Makes clear sense, no? Perfect sense!

Ha! Yeah, I guess you are right. I had almost forgotten the logic of the previous four years. After a second reading, false equivalency and all, it makes perfect sense!
 

ab2cmiller

Troublemaker in training
Messages
11,455
Reaction score
8,536
Interesting chart from a paper analyzing vaccine hesitancy performed by Carnegie Mellon. Fairly U-shaped with the highest percentage shockingly coming from PHD's

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/unherd/status/1425404168127369218[/TWEET]
 

TNUtoNotreDame

Voted must gracious poster for seven years running
Messages
3,130
Reaction score
2,973
Wait you're not following the logic, Republican's aren't taking the vaccine because Kamala Harris was skeptical last year of the timing. So, now, after the data has shows its effective they're still listening to her points from last year. Makes clear sense, no? Perfect sense!

Don't feel like getting banned. carry on
 
Last edited:

Ndaccountant

Old Hoss
Messages
8,370
Reaction score
5,771
As a healthy 25 year old with "natural" immunity (aka had Covid), being forced to vaccinate myself to appease a government mandate feels like such an intrusion on my rights. The scare tactics have certainly worked and all non-vaccinated people will be demonized and forced to comply regardless of past infection status. The CDC has made it so that Natural Immunity does not exist in the minds of most people.

Looking at the spread in Iceland. Israel, and the UK, I suspect NYC will have a "casedemic" in the winter but will not experience record hospitalizations regardless of vaccination rate because the first wave took out so many of the at risk. I think the data is increasingly showing that vaccination status is doing little to prevent transmission, however the CDC won't say that as it would undermine their entire campaign.

I mean this in all sincerity....what's the harm in getting a jab? If getting that jab potentially breaks the chain one time (potentially saving a life of someone down the road), what's the harm? I get "mandates" aren't popular, but we live with them everyday.

Did you get your Dtap, MMR, varicella and polio shots? What about boosters when you went to middle school, high school or college, like meningitis, HPV, HEP A, Hep B and tetanus? Do you like being told you have to have a passport if you want to go into another country? Do you like being told that you can't drive a car without the government testing you? Do you pay taxes? Those are all forms of mandates that, yea, are annoying. But they all are meant to be for your benefit and the public benefit.

I would imagine if you weren't the young one, you would certainly want those who were to take every precaution possible. One day you will be that person.
 

Wild Bill

Well-known member
Messages
5,519
Reaction score
3,266
This country is more selfish than intelligent. Vaccinated or not, people are not very well versed on how it all works.

I get the sense that many people are not getting vaccinated out of some sense of defiance because they don't like government. Or they don't like THIS government.

We never would have beaten polio today. It's maddening how unintelligent and angry society has become, both home and abroad. Maddening and sad.

There's good reason for people not to trust the government and drug companies

​​
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,545
Reaction score
28,995
Please don't make me move this thread or do a big cleanup. I get that stuff is interconnected, but the past two pages are nothing but political finger pointing. This is supposed to be a news/statistics/facts thread with discussion grounded on those topics.
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,617
Reaction score
20,101
Please don't make me move this thread or do a big cleanup. I get that stuff is interconnected, but the past two pages are nothing but political finger pointing. This is supposed to be a news/statistics/facts thread with discussion grounded on those topics.

Yeah, for every point on one side of the fence, there's always a point on the other side. This could go on and on. As far as Trump trying to expedite the process to get vaccines on a fast track, that is correct. At that time very little was known about -19 and it was thought it could wipe out a very large portion of the population quickly, so the general consensus was this needed to be done ASAP regardless of who was in office.
 

Irishize

Well-known member
Messages
4,531
Reaction score
461
As a healthy 25 year old with "natural" immunity (aka had Covid), being forced to vaccinate myself to appease a government mandate feels like such an intrusion on my rights. The scare tactics have certainly worked and all non-vaccinated people will be demonized and forced to comply regardless of past infection status. The CDC has made it so that Natural Immunity does not exist in the minds of most people.

Looking at the spread in Iceland. Israel, and the UK, I suspect NYC will have a "casedemic" in the winter but will not experience record hospitalizations regardless of vaccination rate because the first wave took out so many of the at risk. I think the data is increasingly showing that vaccination status is doing little to prevent transmission, however the CDC won't say that as it would undermine their entire campaign.

I understand your situation. What concerns me is that folks previously infected probably don’t continuously get their antibodies checked to ensure they’re still protected. We don’t know how long the antibodies stay with an individual who has been infected. I suspect if you were in infected this time last year vs January of this year, you’re not as protected vs a person more recently infected. That seems logical, no?

The age bracket w/ the highest death rate is still the 65+ yet the 20-45 age bracket is now seeing more deaths added whereas it wasn’t prevalent pre-Delta variant. Can you still be infected &/or transmit COVID w/ a vax? Yes. Are you likely to be hospitalized or die if vaxed regardless of age if you still happen to contract COVID? No. And that’s what’s shutting everything down and leading to talk of mandates (which I am not in favor of despite being vaccinated). The deaths are overwhelmingly occurring in the unvaccinated…is that even arguable? Deaths are worse than Cases. Deaths are going to lead to shutdowns, job loss, mask mandates, NO COLLEGE FOOTBALL, etc.

It’s true we don’t know the long-term adverse risks of the vax. But we also don’t know the long-term adverse risk of COVID-19. Moving forward, odds are patients will be treated w/ MABs which are historically effective in other TAs but we don’t know the long term effects of those in folks and I’m willing to bet they’re no better or worse than the effects of the vax. Google the current COVID trials for therapeutics and it will be a long list…mostly MABs. Are the same people who insisted on not getting the vax which is free and doesn’t require a doctor/hospital visit also going to insist on not being treated w/ therapeutics in the care of a specialist or even administered via infusion in an out-patient center? I seriously doubt that.

My biggest bone to pick w/ both parties & MSM in regards to messaging on protecting vs COVID is the lack of personal health PSAs. This was an ideal opportunity for a wake up call to the US and it’s embarrassingly high obesity rate. Type 2 diabetes is the epidemic most Americans should be worried about…but they’re not.
 

Irishize

Well-known member
Messages
4,531
Reaction score
461
There's good reason for people not to trust the government and drug companies

​​

There is indeed but I’m willing to bet that those untrusting citizens who forego the vax won’t be so hesitant to be treated by some high-dollar biologic produced by Big Pharma should they happen to contract COVID and be hospitalized. The unvaccinated has drug companies rushing to the labs to get their COVID therapeutic trials underway b/c they know the longer we shun the vax, the more therapeutics will be needed both prophylactically and post-infection. I’m gonna predict that the biologics aren’t going to be available at your local Walgreens for $0 (yes our tax dollars paid for the vax) and that your insurance company isn’t going to shoulder the entire burden of the cost of a biologic. There’s plenty of reasons to not trust the gov’t & or big corporations but I haven’t found a better country/government/economy yet so I’ll stick w/ this one.
 

Rogue219

Well-known member
Messages
5,430
Reaction score
1,080
There's good reason for people not to trust the government and drug companies

​​

To some degree, sure, but this virus doesn't care about anyone's feelings or paranoia.

Too many people in this country think they need to join a cult or swear a blood oath before they go into a voting booth. We get our information from cable stations that call themselves news. It's hard to not give up on humanity in America when all you have to do is go out your front door and see the crazy. Nobody is immune to it. So how do we go about changing our attitudes when it comes to acting in our own self interests? It's like herding cats.

The more the USA is vaccinated, the more limited the variants are able to spread. New versions are going to keep showing up. The more vaccinated we are, the safer we are. The US is mirroring this as we speak. Outbreaks of this Delta Variant started in the areas where the lowest vaccination rates were and now they're spreading. We can't get a foothold on this until the rates go up across the board. It's spreading into higher vaccination rate areas but very few areas are over 70%. We can't hit herd immunity this way.

Right now it's like telling teenagers to practice safe sex. You can tell them this, explain the risks, but it is still going to happen. Areas with high levels of education and contraception availability are going to have less teen pregnancy and STDs. If you ignore it and jusy say it's bad without offering the education and protection you're going to have higher rates.
 

Rogue219

Well-known member
Messages
5,430
Reaction score
1,080
I understand your situation. What concerns me is that folks previously infected probably don’t continuously get their antibodies checked to ensure they’re still protected. We don’t know how long the antibodies stay with an individual who has been infected. I suspect if you were in infected this time last year vs January of this year, you’re not as protected vs a person more recently infected. That seems logical, no?

The age bracket w/ the highest death rate is still the 65+ yet the 20-45 age bracket is now seeing more deaths added whereas it wasn’t prevalent pre-Delta variant. Can you still be infected &/or transmit COVID w/ a vax? Yes. Are you likely to be hospitalized or die if vaxed regardless of age if you still happen to contract COVID? No. And that’s what’s shutting everything down and leading to talk of mandates (which I am not in favor of despite being vaccinated). The deaths are overwhelmingly occurring in the unvaccinated…is that even arguable? Deaths are worse than Cases. Deaths are going to lead to shutdowns, job loss, mask mandates, NO COLLEGE FOOTBALL, etc.

It’s true we don’t know the long-term adverse risks of the vax. But we also don’t know the long-term adverse risk of COVID-19. Moving forward, odds are patients will be treated w/ MABs which are historically effective in other TAs but we don’t know the long term effects of those in folks and I’m willing to bet they’re no better or worse than the effects of the vax. Google the current COVID trials for therapeutics and it will be a long list…mostly MABs. Are the same people who insisted on not getting the vax which is free and doesn’t require a doctor/hospital visit also going to insist on not being treated w/ therapeutics in the care of a specialist or even administered via infusion in an out-patient center? I seriously doubt that.

My biggest bone to pick w/ both parties & MSM in regards to messaging on protecting vs COVID is the lack of personal health PSAs. This was an ideal opportunity for a wake up call to the US and it’s embarrassingly high obesity rate. Type 2 diabetes is the epidemic most Americans should be worried about…but they’re not.

Spot on.

However, Diabetes and obesity are not contagious. Yet, I suppose.
 

Valpodoc85

Well-known member
Messages
1,719
Reaction score
466
As I understand it the experimental group was blinded. So of the people taking the “drug” half we’re getting placebo. There was no difference between those groups
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,545
Reaction score
28,995
Please share the study's protocol. #1 and unavoidable question for any study on any topic.

The meteanalysis has the protocols included.

Example protocol: In the Argentina study, a hospital staff of 1,200 were offered Ivermectin for 10 weeks, a single dose per week for 10 weeks appropriate for a 140 LB person regardless of actual weight. All employees were tested weekly regardless of taking/not taking.

789 chose to take Ivermectin, 411 did not.

Over the course of those 10 weeks, 58% of the 411 tested positive for COVID. 0% of the 789 never tested positive.

This was the study's protocol.

None of this is complicated, and it's already been explained to you that every real study shows Ivermectin does not work. Those that have shown that it works have either been 1) anecdotes 2) flawed 3) retracted 4) inconclusive relative to the abundance of the information to the contrary. This was already explained, but you choose to ignore it. Just like the follow on study (a real study, with real methodology) in Argentina that showed:
Hill added that his team will also include a recently published 500-patient randomized controlled trial from Argentina, published in BMC Infectious Diseases, which found no effect for ivermectin in terms of preventing hospitalization in patients with COVID-19. It also found that those who received ivermectin required invasive ventilation sooner than those on placebo.

Anyways, if you're going to continue posting debunked conspiracies in bad faith then you're done in this thread. A lot of people have given you a lot of chances. When you were pushing anti-vaxx stuff on here months ago about how it causes autism and were shown metanalysis that shows that it didn't you disregarded it. Now that you have fake "metanalysis" to prove Ivermectin is a miracle drug being suppressed as a conspiracy by dozens of independent groups of scientists unaffiliated with "Big Pharma" you're all about it. Enough.
 

Cackalacky2.0

Specimen
Messages
9,023
Reaction score
8,018
My sister is a nurse in Mississippi. I was checking on her. This is her response.

She just texted me
1)she has a 95 yo patient fighting for her life on Covid. Her 45 yo son got COVID after her and they put him and her in the same room becasue she has dementia. He just died and she cant recall him being in the room or dying.

2) EMS had to offload a critical trauma vicitm into ER hallway and leave them there becasue there wasnt any available nurse to intake the patient and the EMS ambulances cant be tied up.

I don't know how she does it. What an angel. I cant imagine....
 
Last edited:

Irishize

Well-known member
Messages
4,531
Reaction score
461
Spot on.

However, Diabetes and obesity are not contagious. Yet, I suppose.

No it’s all free will and the nation has no one to blame but themselves. No pill or free healthcare can prevent people from being gluttonous. If the media & politicians weren’t so sensitive to fat shaming, they’d been all over it early how important it is to be relatively healthy. Diabetes is also a CHF equivalent so COVID should’ve been another wake up call.
 

NDPhilly

Philly Torqued
Messages
16,444
Reaction score
16,737
AP Reporting that Biden is considering mandating vaccines for interstate travel. Idc how pro vaccine you are how can anyone be ok with this?
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,545
Reaction score
28,995
AP Reporting that Biden is considering mandating vaccines for interstate travel. Idc how pro vaccine you are how can anyone be ok with this?

I don't really have a problem with vaccine mandates once it's fully approved by the FDA. People have needed vaccines to travel and to attend school for literally decades. Used to have to show proof of smallpox inoculation to get on a train. Shrug.
 
Top