Tokyo Olympics 2021

[Irish#1]

That was the case, but it seems like the average age is now climbing, with a strong theory being that the scoring system change has effected it. The new system rewards trying ever more difficult skills and stunts that it takes a longer time to be able to do. Combine that with a better understanding of sports science from diet & nutrition to bio-kinetics to recovery, and suddenly these athletes can keep getting better when they would normally be declining. That said, I doubt the age goes up too much.

But, yeah, she is older and they have made a major point of that. It could have also contributed to her mental stress. She wasn't so much a member of a team of people her age, but the leader of a group of younger people. As much as Simone might have been the star of 2016, it very much seemed like Aly Raisman was the vocal leader of that team and Gabby Douglas was the reigning All Around gold medalist.

Good points. A lot of things carried by several now put on her.

 

[TorontoGold]

Listened to Brady Quinn this morning. His wife is a former Olympic gymnast. To paraphrase. Biles has been competing at a high level since she was around 14. That's 10 years of a major grind with high expectations. She gets herself mentally and physically prepared to compete in the Olympics only to have it delayed a year, so she has to start the grind all over. For all we know, she may have been ready to quit after last year and the coach talked her into hanging in there for one last hurrah. Hard to fully comprehend if you haven't walked in her shoes. I don't think her reputation will take a hit. We forgive athletes and national personalities all the time.

Amen. Steve Elmer was forgiven pretty quickly for stepping out on top. Judging on past results, I think the gymnastics team will be just fine.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Listened to Brady Quinn this morning. His wife is a former Olympic gymnast. To paraphrase. Biles has been competing at a high level since she was around 14. That's 10 years of a major grind with high expectations. She gets herself mentally and physically prepared to compete in the Olympics only to have it delayed a year, so she has to start the grind all over. For all we know, she may have been ready to quit after last year and the coach talked her into hanging in there for one last hurrah. Hard to fully comprehend if you haven't walked in her shoes. I don't think her reputation will take a hit. We forgive athletes and national personalities all the time.

I fully support Simone's decision. It's her life, her safety, etc. I also happen to have the opinion that withdrawing the day of the finals in both team and AA will potentially tarnish her legacy. Yes, we forgive athletes all the time. (I don't think there's anything here to be forgiven.) But in twenty or thirty years when people are having the GOAT talks, I don't see how you don't take into account the fact that she backed down during Olympic finals. A metric carried over throughout sports is how the greats rise up to the occasion and perform to (or exceed) expectations when it matters most. I'm not saying it's right or fair, I'm just saying it's reality within those discussions.

 

[RDU Irish]

Upon further review - I think she got the yips, much like a baseball pitcher who can't get over it after hitting a batter. I would not doubt the coaches sat her to salvage silver rather than risk not medaling at all. I did not realize until viewing that she did participate in the vault and was lucky she didn't get a worse score. I think she got benched as much as she took a mental break or whatever. Ironic since that mean she is taking the fall for the coaching staff that everyone hates so much. Maybe her ego could not handle riding pine and easier to make it her decision? Either way - just sad to see her crack after such an illustrious career.

On one hand, I believe GOATs don't choke. On the other hand, her level of dominance in the sport for quite a long time is Goatworthy.

 

[mango4]

She said she has the "twisties" which are basically the yips. Sounds like it could lead to some pretty dangerous results.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...sties-gymnastics-simone-biles-tokyo-olympics/

 

[Rockin’Irish]

This is certainly a situation that we rarely ever see so that in itself can make it difficult to accept……where an anointed “greatest” athlete pulls out of an event because they’re maybe not mentally strong at that specific moment. We’ve seen people fail but rarely have we seen a situation similar to where Tom Brady pulls out of the Super Bowl because he is experiencing a mental letdown. The pressure at the upper echelons of sport are obviously mind boggling for us common folks but I guess that is all relative.

 

[317Irish]

Upon further review - I think she got the yips, much like a baseball pitcher who can't get over it after hitting a batter. I would not doubt the coaches sat her to salvage silver rather than risk not medaling at all. I did not realize until viewing that she did participate in the vault and was lucky she didn't get a worse score. I think she got benched as much as she took a mental break or whatever. Ironic since that mean she is taking the fall for the coaching staff that everyone hates so much. Maybe her ego could not handle riding pine and easier to make it her decision? Either way - just sad to see her crack after such an illustrious career.

On one hand, I believe GOATs don't choke. On the other hand, her level of dominance in the sport for quite a long time is Goatworthy.

I don’t know if this has been discussed anywhere, but to me it seemed like she had a subtle dig at the decision making by her coaches in the post meet press conference. She said that practice went pretty well earlier that morning, but over the next five hours of waiting the nerves set in. I know it seems minor but I don’t think she had confidence in her coaches, which might have contributed to end result. We will see what additional info is made public, but I wonder if she wasn’t on the same page as them in regard to her vault selection.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

P.S. I apologize for the Michigan based reference in advance……..you could surely insert Joe Montana into the same sentence

 

[RDU Irish]

She said she has the "twisties" which are basically the yips. Sounds like it could lead to some pretty dangerous results.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...sties-gymnastics-simone-biles-tokyo-olympics/

Yes - any responsible coach would sit a gymnast with the "twisties" - why is this all being placed on her when the coaches saw enough that she should not have been participating. Make up a foot injury or something if you want to protect her but this just all seems like a ton of unnecessary drama if any adults were involved in the process.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Upon further review - I think she got the yips, much like a baseball pitcher who can't get over it after hitting a batter. I would not doubt the coaches sat her to salvage silver rather than risk not medaling at all. I did not realize until viewing that she did participate in the vault and was lucky she didn't get a worse score. I think she got benched as much as she took a mental break or whatever. Ironic since that mean she is taking the fall for the coaching staff that everyone hates so much. Maybe her ego could not handle riding pine and easier to make it her decision? Either way - just sad to see her crack after such an illustrious career.

On one hand, I believe GOATs don't choke. On the other hand, her level of dominance in the sport for quite a long time is Goatworthy.

I don't think she was sat to save face. I think she withdrew for fear of potential injury. Having the "yips" in gymnastics could lead to pretty severe injury or worse. It's a dangerous sport if everything doesn't sync - mind and body.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Yes - any responsible coach would sit a gymnast with the "twisties" - why is this all being placed on her when the coaches saw enough that she should not have been participating. Make up a foot injury or something if you want to protect her but this just all seems like a ton of unnecessary drama if any adults were involved in the process.

I agree that this wasn't something that just happened day of finals. Her qualifications were off too. She should've withdrew sooner and I think a lot more people would be far more understanding of her situation and decision.

 

[ACamp1900]

Unlike many who are hard behind her or are strongly attacking her I’ll defer to, ‘I’m not gonna pretend to know wtf is actually going on’ and just leave it at, it’s unfortunate it happened now. And,…. That’s about it. I hope it isn’t, or doesn’t grow into, more than just the yips,…

 

[ACamp1900]

Also, this hardly feels like an Olympic games,… idk if it’s the pandemic or what but it’s the least I’ve really been into the Olympics ever

 

[tussin]

If I recall, Mrs. Quinn's performance in 2008 cost us the gold medal in the team event. Granted...China cheated. And I could be misremembering.

I get the whole "try walking in her shoes" thing. But people still rail on Colt McCoy for what they perceived as basically opting out after one drive in the title game back in 2010 (even though I'm pretty sure his injury was legitimate).

Another example is Ben Simmons this year, who clearly had a mental issue going on in the playoffs and got absolutely crucified for it. Perhaps we are too hard on our athletes, but the objective fact is that she quit on her team and we shouldn't be outraged that she is getting criticized the same way athletes in every single other sport do. I like Biles and hope she gets over whatever is ailing her mentally. That said, it's almost a comical bust from marketing perspective; I mentioned earlier but NBC has been cutting promos of her walking around with an actual goat.

 

[RDU Irish]

Also, this hardly feels like an Olympic games,… idk if it’s the pandemic or what but it’s the least I’ve really been into the Olympics ever

I agree - I find NBC's coverage/production to be brutal. One channel should be dedicated to an hour long sportscenter type show with highlights, another with NFL RedZone approach of switching to whatever event has something going on RIGHT NOW worth watching. It is like it is all run by a bunch of soap opera producers that want to stare at Mike Tirico all day.

No data in so many events - gymnastics is so technical and they don't rank each event by top starting score or top score each gymnast has gotten recently or ever. Swimming loves their meters per second on the top three places which is just about useless since they are always within .01 M/S of eachother - put the flag in each lane as they make the turn (all 8). Scroll some info along the bottom or something. I mean they did get creative with a split screen commercial while the 1500M womens freestyle was going.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

She said she has the "twisties" which are basically the yips. Sounds like it could lead to some pretty dangerous results.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...sties-gymnastics-simone-biles-tokyo-olympics/

Yeah all this choking bs is just that. BS. If she isnt confident (for whatever reasons) she could endanger her self.

 

[RDU Irish]

Yeah all this choking bs is just that. BS. If she isnt confident (for whatever reasons) she could endanger her self.

Losing confidence in the finals is pretty much the definition of choking. I don't say that as a slight but as a statement of fact. Still an amazing athlete with amazing accomplishments but very sad this will be part of how she will remembered. You only get one or two shots at the Olympics as a gymnast - getting yourself mentally ready is a big part of the challenge.

Does Team USA really not have a couple of sports psychologists on hand to work with the superstars and coach up the stars being born?

 

[pumpdog20]

One side is offended that the term quit on her team/country was used. The other side is offended that people are calling her brave.

Did she quit, yes
Is she brave, suppose we all have different versions of what that means, but I suppose in some ways, yes

 

[NorthDakota]

Yeah all this choking bs is just that. BS. If she isnt confident (for whatever reasons) she could endanger her self.

I'm curious what word you'd choose to use to describe a star athlete performing poorly due to athletics induced stress?

People can sympathize with her. But as someone who has also shriveled in (much smaller) big moments, this sure looks like choking.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I’ve had panic attacks that literally caused me to flee the situation I was in. Driving a car and a panic attack hits I had to pull over and get out of the car and do whatever I could to calm down. It can be so overwhelming I can’t even drive a car let alone do some thoroughly complicated physical routine requiring elite precision and competence. I could kill someone with my vehicle, or kill me or my family. Sometimes that takes minutes sometimes hours or days to get over. It sucks. That is vastly different than just poor sports performances and not something a sports psychologist can fix in a matter of minutes when it hits. We don’t know what it was but choking is not a word I will ever use for this situation. The Russians losing to USA in 1981 was choking. Matty Ice losing a 28 point lead to Brady was choking. This ain’t that IMO.

One moment of imprecision and she is seriously hurt. If you couldnt tell where she was in space on her previosu event (as stated earlier) then having to go onto the high bars could be extremely dangerous. This is so far above a poor performance issue.

Anyway I personally have a lot of empathy for her. Thats all.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

FWIW a personal example:
A few years ago I was working on an existing building and had to do roof work. I had my tool bag which had every known sharp, pointy, slicey tool you can name in there slung over my shoulder and a 6 foot ladder I was using to get up on another level. I stepped on a skylight tht was painted the same color as the metal roof and I fell 15 feet to concrete slab below. I missed falling on a 6 ft tall masonry wall by about 2 feet. When I landed, I landed sideways and ontop of the tool bag and my head landed on my outstreched arms/shoulder. I somehow managed to not get stabbed or hurt from the tool bag which I landed on and the ladder fell through with me but didnt fall on me. Despite this the only physical injury I suffered was a broken wrist bone and a single screw and some scrapes on my knees. Since then working on roofs induces an anxiety in me that is hard to deal with. I still have to get on roofs and heights for work and when it comes down to it some times I have a terrible time finishing the work. I get sloppy, distracted easily and stressed out. This is my livlihood and I get paid to do it. I get dizzy and naseous from all of it. I cant take any meds to deal with it becasue they can cause their own side affects you want to avoid while working at heights and i just have to plow through. When I get done, I am mentally and physically exhausted from the stress. I never had a problem with heights ever until this fall. To this day it still gets me but Im a bit better at preparing myself to handle it or taking my time while doing roof work. Point being that doing dangerous things while stressed out can be dangerous itself bcasue you tend to focus on the anixety and not the safety. A momentary lapse of concetration has now led to something that has been with me for many years now and I dont ever see getting over it. I dont think this can be classified as "choking" in the sense being applied to Briles.

 

[Irish#1]

I agree - I find NBC's coverage/production to be brutal. One channel should be dedicated to an hour long sportscenter type show with highlights, another with NFL RedZone approach of switching to whatever event has something going on RIGHT NOW worth watching. It is like it is all run by a bunch of soap opera producers that want to stare at Mike Tirico all day.

No data in so many events - gymnastics is so technical and they don't rank each event by top starting score or top score each gymnast has gotten recently or ever. Swimming loves their meters per second on the top three places which is just about useless since they are always within .01 M/S of eachother - put the flag in each lane as they make the turn (all 8). Scroll some info along the bottom or something. I mean they did get creative with a split screen commercial while the 1500M womens freestyle was going.

I've tried to watch some, but every time I flip over to see what's going on there's a commercial on.

 

[Irish#1]

Also, this hardly feels like an Olympic games,… idk if it’s the pandemic or what but it’s the least I’ve really been into the Olympics ever

It's the pandemic IMO. No one in attendance to generate excitement at the events takes away from the atmosphere, doesn't give the announcers some spark when covering, etc. We're still not back to normal, whatever that is.

 

[317Irish]

FWIW a personal example:
A few years ago I was working on an existing building and had to do roof work. I had my tool bag which had every known sharp, pointy, slicey tool you can name in there slung over my shoulder and a 6 foot ladder I was using to get up on another level. I stepped on a skylight tht was painted the same color as the metal roof and I fell 15 feet to concrete slab below. I missed falling on a 6 ft tall masonry wall by about 2 feet. When I landed, I landed sideways and ontop of the tool bag and my head landed on my outstreched arms/shoulder. I somehow managed to not get stabbed or hurt from the tool bag which I landed on and the ladder fell through with me but didnt fall on me. Despite this the only physical injury I suffered was a broken wrist bone and a single screw and some scrapes on my knees. Since then working on roofs induces an anxiety in me that is hard to deal with. I still have to get on roofs and heights for work and when it comes down to it some times I have a terrible time finishing the work. I get sloppy, distracted easily and stressed out. This is my livlihood and I get paid to do it. I get dizzy and naseous from all of it. I cant take any meds to deal with it becasue they can cause their own side affects you want to avoid while working at heights and i just have to plow through. When I get done, I am mentally and physically exhausted from the stress. I never had a problem with heights ever until this fall. To this day it still gets me but Im a bit better at preparing myself to handle it or taking my time while doing roof work. Point being that doing dangerous things while stressed out can be dangerous itself bcasue you tend to focus on the anixety and not the safety. A momentary lapse of concetration has now led to something that has been with me for many years now and I dont ever see getting over it. I dont think this can be classified as "choking" in the sense being applied to Briles.

Sheesh, Cack. I’m starting to feel worse for what all you’ve gone through than I do for Simone!

 

[NorthDakota]

Sheesh, Cack. I’m starting to feel worse for what all you’ve gone through than I do for Simone!

I empathize with Cack much more than Simone! I am paralyzed by heights, ladders, big buildings, etc. Big league fear of falling.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I empathize with Cack much more than Simone! I am paralyzed by heights, ladders, big buildings, etc. Big league fear of falling.

I think this is the disconnect. I cant imagine doing what she does, flipping and turning and spinning and attempting to make sure all four limbs land in the intended places with precision and balance where if she doesnt then she can get hurt. Imagine a high bar routine where she goes spinning off into space and never grabs the high bar becasue she lost focus. Im just crawling over flat surfaces and banging on shit.

There are days when I look at at my boss and I know going up on a roof is a bad idea. They listen to me becasue I know myself pretty good and they trust me to be aware. They are taking a risk letting me go so If I say im a no go they listen. Id expect it to be the same for any individual inclduing Olympians.

 

[Domer Dude]

The writing was on the wall with Simone Biles. She was spending too much time disctracted with social media, advertising, and in the public eye. All the goat talk repeated by her own self were nails in the coffin.

Twisties are simply losing tracking of where you are at in the air, typically with twisting skills. The coach will get the gymnast on a tramp or tumble track and break down the skills to the basics and rebuild back up. With Simone her mind is not focused with all the noise around her. A lack of training and all the noise around her which she invites herself has set herself up for this issue.

Having transitioned from being a kid to an adult making more of her own decisions contributes to these issues. Her free time outside of gym is not in school. Her coaches give her a lot of freedom and she makes her own decisions. If she was in school or under coaches who would tell them to get off the media sites she would have been focused and dialed in. She believed her own BS regarding goat and is paying for it.

If I was her coach I would take away her bloody phone, tell she has 2 days to clear her head, and would get her the tumble tracks and tramps at 4:00 in the morning or 12:00 at night with no one around. All the talk of her "strength" is BS too. She took away a spot from someone else.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Yeah all this choking bs is just that. BS. If she isnt confident (for whatever reasons) she could endanger her self.

I agree with you to some extent, but not fully. In the case of a gymnast, getting the twisties/yips can be dangerous. OTOH, rising to the challenge in big moments and never choking is what makes people like Jordan, Bird, Brady, Montana, and etc. legendary. That sort of mental toughness and the ability to master your doubts and fears, no matter what, is a major component of GOATness.

 

[Bishop2b5]

It's the pandemic IMO. No one in attendance to generate excitement at the events takes away from the atmosphere, doesn't give the announcers some spark when covering, etc. We're still not back to normal, whatever that is.

A lot of "wokeness" and political statements and protests have turned countless viewers away too. I've seen some threads on other forums and on FB about it and know a LOT of people who just don't have any interest in watching soccer players kneel or other athletes with their woke shirts and behavior. TV viewership is down about 35% over the last Olympics, and that's a significant factor in why. A major reason we watch sports is to escape from the daily conflict and political ranting from both sides. That's why the Olympics had rules about NO political/causes stuff.

 

[TorontoGold]

A lot of "wokeness" and political statements and protests have turned countless viewers away too. I've seen some threads on other forums and on FB about it and know a LOT of people who just don't have any interest in watching soccer players kneel or other athletes with their woke shirts and behavior. TV viewership is down about 35% over the last Olympics, and that's a significant factor in why. A major reason we watch sports is to escape from the daily conflict and political ranting from both sides. That's why the Olympics had rules about NO political/causes stuff.

The most recent Euro final had the highest viewership ever, and they kneeled before each game. Curious which data is showing that social/political causes are affecting the viewership.