'22 IN OL Ashton Craig (Notre Dame Signee)

[Luckylucci]

So, they’re taking Craig as the 3rd and waiting on decisions for the 4th?

 

[Irish2155]

Who doesn't love Q? lol

Q single handedly made playing OL cool again. Chicks dig the pancake, then the nut drop from above is perfect/complete dominance.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Q single handedly made playing OL cool again. Chicks dig the pancake, then the nut drop from above is perfect/complete dominance.

When have the biggest strongest dudes on the team ever not been cool?

 

[Dale]

Singer said ND not expected to factor with Hinzman moving forward may have brought this on earlier than expected but the thought was he would get offered by the weekend anyways

 

[SBirishlawyer]

Singer said ND not expected to factor with Hinzman moving forward may have brought this on earlier than expected but the thought was he would get offered by the weekend anyways

Yikes, that is Hinzman and the Gorman tackle, who while granted came into visit leaning elsewhere but with pretty clear thanks but no thanks. Im starting to be swayed into the concerned category. As O line U and all, the recent nfl draft and onfield success, I would have expected better results. Saying nothing of a Schrauth was a silent vibe but now tea leaves say a miss. Did Quinn bad mouth Muskey fishing or something.

 

[Dale]

Yikes, that is Hinzman and the Gorman tackle, who while granted came into visit leaning elsewhere but with pretty clear thanks but no thanks. Im starting to be swayed into the concerned category. As O line U and all, the recent nfl draft and onfield success, I would have expected better results. Saying nothing of a Schrauth was a silent vibe but now tea leaves say a miss. Did Quinn bad mouth Muskey fishing or something.

Unless I missed something I haven’t seen that same sentiment on Taylor.

Hinzman, Rice, Wagner, and Brunner were all extreme long shots coming in. Hinzman sounds like a thanks but no thanks, Rice we’ll see, Wagner we made some traction and Brunner I haven’t seen anything. Taylor I thought of as unlikely but not to the degree of the above.

 

[BobbyMac]

Did Quinn bad mouth Muskey fishing or something.

He may have. Quinn's widely known as... The:

 

[NDdomer2]

Yikes, that is Hinzman and the Gorman tackle, who while granted came into visit leaning elsewhere but with pretty clear thanks but no thanks. Im starting to be swayed into the concerned category. As O line U and all, the recent nfl draft and onfield success, I would have expected better results. Saying nothing of a Schrauth was a silent vibe but now tea leaves say a miss. Did Quinn bad mouth Muskey fishing or something.

Don't think these kids don't know that there's some real players ahead of them in line. If they are looking to be an early starter I can understand what would turn you off about the depth chart.

I'm not worried about OL recruiting. The fact we were able to already move onto 2nd wave target and expect a commitment in June for your 3rd OL shows Quinn has his ducks in a row.

Even though it sounds like Craig loved his MSU visit don't think for a second he would cancel his visit to ND if he felt like he was a legit option/felt like he could commit.. I think you'd at least take the trip for trips sake then commit to MSU after.

Quinn likes where he's at.

 

[SBirishlawyer]

He may have. Quinn's widely known as... The:

Could he not have compromised and at least feigned interest in casting for Northern Pike. It’s bass ish …add a steel leader swap blade spinner for in line spinner. I am not asking for a boring day of cold mist walleye trolling. Just a little white lie for one of the three top 100 cheese state guards.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Don't think these kids don't know that there's some real players ahead of them in line. If they are looking to be an early starter I can understand what would turn you off about the depth chart.

I'm not worried about OL recruiting. The fact we were able to already move onto 2nd wave target and expect a commitment in June for your 3rd OL shows Quinn has his ducks in a row.

Even though it sounds like Craig loved his MSU visit don't think for a second he would cancel his visit to ND if he felt like he was a legit option/felt like he could commit.. I think you'd at least take the trip for trips sake then commit to MSU after.

Quinn likes where he's at.

I hope you're right. This is a big year for him.

 

[benneboy]

Can spin this o line class however you want but it's tracking towards unimpressive. The big time programs bring in top tier talent every single year at the same positions. O line is the one spot ND should be able to do that as well. In almost never on the side of Driskel, but agree with him here. Bruce Heggie here we come.

 

[Luckylucci]

Can spin this o line class however you want but it's tracking towards unimpressive. The big time programs bring in top tier talent every single year at the same positions. O line is the one spot ND should be able to do that as well. In almost never on the side of Driskel, but agree with him here. Bruce Heggie here we come.

I’m down for some real talk when things are going south but Bruce Heggie? Seriously? He was ranked 2,000+ and a 2 star. There is no scenario where we land anything that remotely resembles that.

Ty Chan, #204, is a 4 star Under Armour All American.

Joey Tanona, #166, 4 star.

Ashton Craig, #578, 3 star.

That is hardly sky is falling type stuff.

 

[T-Boone]

Can spin this o line class however you want but it's tracking towards unimpressive. The big time programs bring in top tier talent every single year at the same positions. O line is the one spot ND should be able to do that as well. In almost never on the side of Driskel, but agree with him here. Bruce Heggie here we come.

Bama seem to skip a year with WR recruiting and overload on the on year.

 

[benneboy]

I’m down for some real talk when things are going south but Bruce Heggie? Seriously? He was ranked 2,000+ and a 2 star. There is no scenario where we land anything that remotely resembles that.

Ty Chan, #204, is a 4 star Under Armour All American.

Joey Tanona, #166, 4 star.

Ashton Craig, #578, 3 star.

That is hardly sky is falling type stuff.

Was talking about Craig specifically. The other two o lineman don't impact Craig's ranking. Was also being somewhat sarcastic despite lack of italics. Point was it has a Heggie/Turner feel where everyone is questioning the offer and then then they never see the field.

 

[benneboy]

Bama seem to skip a year with WR recruiting and overload on the on year.

Do the same exercise w their running backs or OSU's receivers.

 

[fightingirish26]

Was talking about Craig specifically. The other two o lineman don't impact Craig's ranking. Was also being somewhat sarcastic despite lack of italics. Point was it has a Heggie/Turner feel where everyone is questioning the offer and then then they never see the field.

I see people questioning the implications of the offer (i.e. does this mean we are about to miss out on all the other OL we've had on campus this month) but haven't seen anyone besides you question Craig's talent. He's an 89 on 247. With a good senior year he's a four star. I'm impressed that we can easily pivot to a guy as talented as this.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Can spin this o line class however you want but it's tracking towards unimpressive. The big time programs bring in top tier talent every single year at the same positions. O line is the one spot ND should be able to do that as well. In almost never on the side of Driskel, but agree with him here. Bruce Heggie here we come.

Hmmm, me thinky either you are Driskell, SeaTurtle is Driskell, or you are all the same Driskell....

 

[Ndaccountant]

Hmmm, me thinky either you are Driskell, SeaTurtle is Driskell, or you are all the same Driskell....

TBF to both sides of the argument. The two guys already in the class could be multiple year starters for many strong P5 teams. I have no problem with them and I think they are really good pieces to the OL puzzle. On the other hand, we are missing on quite a few others. Last year's class was great. But if the depth of the following class is a bit more shallow than normal, it will put tremendous pressure on 2023. Things are trending strong there, but we also thought that about 2022 at one point. As is with most of things in life, we'll see. Worrying is like a rocking chair and all that.

 

[ThePiombino]

I’m down for some real talk when things are going south but Bruce Heggie? Seriously? He was ranked 2,000+ and a 2 star. There is no scenario where we land anything that remotely resembles that.

Ty Chan, #204, is a 4 star Under Armour All American.

Joey Tanona, #166, 4 star.

Ashton Craig, #578, 3 star.

That is hardly sky is falling type stuff.

"OLU" with an OL haul average ranking of 316 doesn't concern you?

 

[Trait Expectations]

"OLU" with an OL haul average ranking of 316 doesn't concern you?

No

 

[ThePiombino]

No

Gonna feel the same way after 2-3 more years of that?

 

[NDdomer2]

Was talking about Craig specifically. The other two o lineman don't impact Craig's ranking. Was also being somewhat sarcastic despite lack of italics. Point was it has a Heggie/Turner feel where everyone is questioning the offer and then then they never see the field.

Based on his ranking, history says Craig likely wont have much impact on the field. However, we have 4 star rated guys that never see signficant time as well, but being highly rated certainly gives you a better shot at seeing the field.

Starting with the 2012 recruiting class through 2020 class, 14 OL never started a game, and of those 8 are rating 90+ (5 of 8 in last two classes)

Of those who have started a game, the average ranking is .9372, average rating for non-starters .9123. Only 3 players not ranked 90+ have started in that time frame. Jarrett Patterson (.8912) has 21 starts and counting, Trevor Ruhland (.8738) had 11 starts, and Dillan Gibbons (.8847) has 1 start.

90+ rated guys who never saw the field for ND in any fashion = Tristen Hoge (transfer), John Olmstead (class of 19), Tosh Baker (class of 2020).

90+ rated guys who have never started = John Montelus (.9330), Colin McGovern (.9209), Tristen Hoge (.9585), Quinn Carroll (.9472), Andrew Kristofic (.9254), John Olmstead (.9242), Tosh Baker (.9549), Michael Carmody (.9352).

Adding Craig to our current class gives us an average ranking of .9088 which would be second lowest since 2012, with only the 2018 class being lower (and only class that doesnt have a 90+ average).

Name	Rating	Games Played	Games Started
Ronnie Stanley	0.9472	41	39
Tommy Kraemer	0.9835	42	39
Liam Eichenberg	0.9614	43	38
Sam Mustipher	0.9123	46	37
Robert Hainsey	0.9605	46	34
Aaron Banks	0.9301	38	31
Alex Bars	0.9484	31	27
Mike McGlinchey	0.9280	38	26
Quenton Nelson	0.9707	24	23
Jarrett Patterson	0.8912	24	21
Steve Elmer	0.9467	23	17
Trevor Ruhland	0.8738	29	11
Josh Lugg	0.9443	37	8
Zeke Correll	0.9578	8	2
Hunter Bivin	0.9545	29	1
Dillan Gibbons	0.8847	28	1
Mark Harrell	0.8794	7	0
John Montelus	0.9330	4	0
Colin McGovern	0.9209	10	0
Jimmy Byrne	0.8926	0	0
Tristen Hoge	0.9585	0	0
Parker Boudreaux	0.8802	0	0
John Dirksen	0.8776	18	0
Luke Jones	0.8776	0	0
Cole Mabry	0.8655	1	0
Quinn Carroll	0.9472	3	0
Andrew Kristofic	0.9254	8	0
John Olmstead	0.9242	0	0
Tosh Baker	0.9549	0	0
Michael Carmody	0.9352	1	0

Year	Average OL Rating
2020	0.9451
2016	0.9417
2019	0.9387
2013	0.9366
2014	0.9310
2017	0.9299
2021	0.9195
2015	0.9162
2012	0.9133
2022	0.9088
2018	0.8780

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

It is worth noting that the ratings for Chan, Tanona, and Craig aren't final. They still have their senior seasons and postseason AA games ahead of them.

 

[NDdomer2]

Gonna feel the same way after 2-3 more years of that?

whats the assumption that this level would continue for 2-3 more years?

Regardless of OL coach we have averaged .9235 an OL recruit over 10 years. This class is coming off the heels of 2 of the top 3 classes all time in that time frame. I can understand some kids looking at the depth chart and saying ehh, maybe I'll look somewhere else. But history says a return to the mean is likely.

 

[ThePiombino]

whats the assumption that this level would continue for 2-3 more years?

Regardless of OL coach we have averaged .9235 an OL recruit over 10 years. This class is coming off the heels of 2 of the top 3 classes all time in that time frame. I can understand some kids looking at the depth chart and saying ehh, maybe I'll look somewhere else. But history says a return to the mean is likely.

And let's all pray that this is all this is. But if it's not, at what point do we start to say what the hell is going on here? I just find it hard to believe that Notre Dame, of all places, can't continuously reload at the OL position on a yearly basis.

I would be curious to see what the average defensive back ranking is at LSU, or the average defensive line ranking at Clemson, or the average running back ranking at Alabama is year after year. I bet it's not 316...

 

[NDMIA]

It would definitely be disappointing to see all of the 4-5* OV guys pick a different school. However, #1 it hasn’t happened yet and there’s still going to be some movement in those recruitments. #2 What is Jeff Quinn supposed to do? Also, Evan Flood put in a CB-4 for Schrauth. That’s not great but that’s not exactly a lock and you haven’t seen all the analysts flipping their CB’s just yet. I’m pretty sure the standard CB is a CB-6 of which I see the most of. So I’m not sure Evan Flood is hearing that he’s totally committing to Wisconsin.

Back to what is Jeff Quinn supposed to do. He offered 22 OLinemen this cycle. 20 are 4*’s or higher which is a ton. 2 committed and he got 6 for official visits on campus. He also got George Fitzpatrick on campus for a self-guided tour and maybe should’ve pushed harder for a late June OV as a higher ranked plan B. He also pushed for Drew Shelton to decommit from Penn State and visit ND (don’t know if that’s ongoing or if he’s sticking to PSU). I can’t really find any guys ND should’ve offered as 4* dudes who fit ND’s profile. Maybe only Fisher Anderson from Nashville, TN. 6’7” .9128 4* with OV’s to Northwestern (6/4), Virginia (6/11), UNC (6/18), Stanford (6/25). I can’t really fault Quinn for not swinging for the fences because he’s knocked on every possible door to get ND the best class they could possibly get. Maybe there’s more at play where’s he’s not getting enough help from Rees or BK or some of the recruiting staff. I’m not sure. The bottom line is I complained of Hiestand being too selective, not recruiting enough and passing on tons of guys. How can I complain about a guy who’s essentially the opposite and works his a** off to get the best class. It’ll be disappointing if they can’t get any of the visitors but we still have a few weeks before all the decisions have been made.

 

[Sea Turtle]

And let's all pray that this is all this is. But if it's not, at what point do we start to say what the hell is going on here? I just find it hard to believe that Notre Dame, of all places, can't continuously reload at the OL position on a yearly basis.

I would be curious to see what the average defensive back ranking is at LSU, or the average defensive line ranking at Clemson, or the average running back ranking at Alabama is year after year. I bet it's not 316...

From what I understand, schools are negatively recruiting Quinn.

 

[Sea Turtle]

It would definitely be disappointing to see all of the 4-5* OV guys pick a different school. However, #1 it hasn’t happened yet and there’s still going to be some movement in those recruitments. #2 What is Jeff Quinn supposed to do? Also, Evan Flood put in a CB-4 for Schrauth. That’s not great but that’s not exactly a lock and you haven’t seen all the analysts flipping their CB’s just yet. I’m pretty sure the standard CB is a CB-6 of which I see the most of. So I’m not sure Evan Flood is hearing that he’s totally committing to Wisconsin.

Back to what is Jeff Quinn supposed to do. He offered 22 OLinemen this cycle. 20 are 4*’s or higher which is a ton. 2 committed and he got 6 for official visits on campus. He also got George Fitzpatrick on campus for a self-guided tour and maybe should’ve pushed harder for a late June OV as a higher ranked plan B. He also pushed for Drew Shelton to decommit from Penn State and visit ND (don’t know if that’s ongoing or if he’s sticking to PSU). I can’t really find any guys ND should’ve offered as 4* dudes who fit ND’s profile. Maybe only Fisher Anderson from Nashville, TN. 6’7” .9128 4* with OV’s to Northwestern (6/4), Virginia (6/11), UNC (6/18), Stanford (6/25). I can’t really fault Quinn for not swinging for the fences because he’s knocked on every possible door to get ND the best class they could possibly get. Maybe there’s more at play where’s he’s not getting enough help from Rees or BK or some of the recruiting staff. I’m not sure. The bottom line is I complained of Hiestand being too selective, not recruiting enough and passing on tons of guys. How can I complain about a guy who’s essentially the opposite and works his a** off to get the best class. It’ll be disappointing if they can’t get any of the visitors but we still have a few weeks before all the decisions have been made.

One of the problems is that Kelly chose his drinking buddy over the guy who just won a superbowl coaching the Bucs On-line.

 

[BobbyMac]

Once again... I love the star system. It's a great grid to map out your travel of the prospect universe BUT you still have to open your eyes, look at film and have the ability to see special athletes.

247 & Rivals have been notoriously bad recently in Southern Indiana when it comes to rating players.

Rondale Moore was the #137 WR / 3* going into the Opening's his Junior year.

Zen Michalski was an 85 until the end of his Jr. year before 247 started giving him bumps that ended with them giving him a 4th star when he got involved and a 92 when he committed to OSU.

And then there's Kiyaunta Goodwin, the most NFL projectable prospect in the Class of '22. He was an 82 thru Aug of last year and didn't make 4* until Halloween of last year. They got him partially corrected a year earlier than the others but they had no choice because he's been featured nationally since he was a 6-7/360 lb 8th grader.

Another guy he reminds me of is Coy Cronk from Lafayette Central Catholic / IU / Iowa / Packers. That was a 6-4/260 guy playing OT and MIKE. How HH didn't get him on campus, I'll never know. Walked onto the field at IU and started 40 games in a row before getting injured. That guy was a freak.

Back to Craig... this guy's an elite athlete for the position. If he has the arm length he can play any position when his time comes in '24 or '25. I couldn't be higher on this kid, this is physically a Jarrett Patterson, Robert Hainsey level prospect only faster. He's not battle tested like those two of course because of where they played vs him playing at 3A Lawrenceburg but all I need to see is in the film.

 

[Luckylucci]

"OLU" with an OL haul average ranking of 316 doesn't concern you?

Respectfully this is such a bad take. The logic on averaging together the rankings is beyond pointless. That’s literally not how it works on the field. Did Avajon’s 230 ranking to Kyle Hamilton’s 60, mean that we got two 145 S’s or we got an elite guy (first round draft pick type) and a depth guy? Which is exactly how it played out on the field, so far.

IF, Craig’s ranking is accurate and he’s not a starter level player (which half the OL on the team won’t be), it doesn’t decrease Tanona and Chan’s chances of doing so. Each prospects ultimate performance/production is not mutually exclusive to the others. Chan and Tanona are two legitimate blue chip recruits. And some of these guys will never see the field regardless of where they are ranked. That’s what having 85 scholarships will do.

Now, is 2 in this class good enough after we landed 4 last class? I’d say so but I guess that is debatable. However, I’d like to see us at least keep the arguments to things that are relevant.

If the class ends up with these 3, then I would be disappointed from what was expected. However, there is nothing to suggest this will have immense impact on the program for years to come. The sky is falling stuff is just bizarre. 247 will have ND with signing 6 4 star guys. 4 top 200 (Chan at 204 would be a 5th), over the last 2 cycles. Let’s debate how many we need every two cycles, not how Coogan makes Fisher a less fantastic Freshman LT.