'20 MO WR Jordan Johnson (Notre Dame Signee)

[Dale]

And Fleming.

He is transferring to Alabama too. But this is a whole different animal. He could legit start at Bama versus being WR4 at OSU next year.

I didn’t include Fleming since his contribution was mainly when Olave was out, it also doesn’t necessarily help the play them a bit point because he has transfer rumors circulating as well. So that could be 2/3 WRs they “worked in” that said nah that’s not enough there’s new guys coming too I’m out. The talent level is certainly different but the point to integrate them a bit is the same, and doesn’t necessarily avoid a disgruntled Spring transfer. That circles back to where I think the volume just needs to be higher, because JJs will continue to happen, just need someone else to balance it out

 

[Ndaccountant]

I didn’t include Fleming since his contribution was mainly when Olave was out, it also doesn’t necessarily help the play them a bit point because he has transfer rumors circulating as well. So that could be 2/3 WRs they “worked in” that said nah that’s not enough there’s new guys coming too I’m out. The talent level is certainly different but the point to integrate them a bit is the same, and doesn’t necessarily avoid a disgruntled Spring transfer. That circles back to where I think the volume just needs to be higher, because JJs will continue to happen, just need someone else to balance it out

Understand your point, not disagreeing on recruiting. But ND needs to do something different because even with enhanced recruiting, the experienced depth issue we are going to see this year wouldn't be any different. The last few years have been really thin with WR rotation.

Example, swapping out Austin for Colzie for a few plays a game isn't really different in my book of swapping out Watts for Keys/Avery Davis last year. Talent levels are about the same either way.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Understand your point, not disagreeing on recruiting. But ND needs to do something different because even with enhanced recruiting, the experienced depth issue we are going to see this year wouldn't be any different. The last few years have been really thin with WR rotation.

Example, swapping out Austin for Colzie for a few plays a game isn't really different in my book of swapping out Watts for Keys/Avery Davis last year. Talent levels are about the same either way.

I think you are finally coming around to the true problem: we haven't added enough talented WRs every year. This has nothing to do with snaps. What the hell would 15 snaps have done for a receiver? And why do you believe you know more than the staff?

Here's what we can say: JJ wasn't an immediate difference maker. Almost a year into the program, he played in his first BG game and the staff called a play for him and he ran it incorrectly. That's a very small sample size. If that's what you see as a coach in practice, then how TF are you supposed to put him in a real game? I'm sure he's good in 1v1 situations. He looks smooth and it always appeared he could create some separation without being a true burner.

I hope Lo Styles gets snaps if he can help and be assignment sound. Same for X Watts, Brunelle, Colzie, Thomas. But the staff are putting guys in the league and they are developing their players. This isn't a development issue. This is a RECRUITING TALENT issue. It's a more extreme example of what happened on OL. As Hiestand was leaving, his recruiting took a massive plunge, then Quinn took over and brought in some good prospects but not enough. 2020 he brought in two players after having 3-4 transfer out in the classes prior. Now we need freshmen to hit, fortunately we recruited true blue chip immediate difference makers and we have a little more talent from past classes and hopefully enough depth.

 

[Trait Expectations]

I'd also like to address Driskell's dum dum azz. He is so bitter about BK it makes me sick to listen to him anymore. And he never gives Vince an opportunity to talk. He had a lot to say about this and as if he really has an inside source on how the entire operation works in side ND Football. It was almost laughable. That is all...

Agreed. I always wonder who his audience consists of? He claims he's open minded and wants to discuss issues but he beats the same drum over and over whenever he gets a data point for his preconceived ideas. Remember when Derrik Allen transferred? "Kelly and Co should've played him". Go look at what he's done at Ga Tech. And I hate this because we have to throw shade on a player to make a point. From everything I read D Allen was respectful throughout the process.

There is a reason CoachD isn't a coach. He should change his handle to: FailedCoachD or ReporterD. He couldn't move from D3 and Kelly is coaching at the top of CFB.

He's also still claiming Quinn isn't teaching the OL well enough. After the just took the same guys blocking in 2019 and turned 3 of them into NFL draft picks (2nd,2nd,3rd?) and one FA. Of course we're going to be rebuilding across the OL. I really wish he'd lose his job at Maven but I don't know who'd be there to move in and take over.

Fortunately for ND fans, we have enough content choices and the cream rises to the top: The Athletic, Irish Illustrated, ISD, BG and of course our favorite site IE.

 

[Irish#1]

What the hell would 15 snaps have done for a receiver?

Impact on the scoreboard, probably nothing. But the benefits are comfort and familiarity in the playbook and live action. These kids minds have to be going a mile a minute the first few times they step on the field. Those few snaps can help them get accustomed to the play calling and environment where their thoughts are solely on the play and not everything else.

 

[PANDFAN]

Then the staff didn't a very good job with the eval, did they?

nor did the recruiting sites and everyone else such as bama, osu, etc as they offered him (don't know if it was committable) ...but this is too be determined...but from what we have, everyone did

 

[Trait Expectations]

Impact on the scoreboard, probably nothing. But the benefits are comfort and familiarity in the playbook and live action. These kids minds have to be going a mile a minute the first few times they step on the field. Those few snaps can help them get accustomed to the play calling and environment where their thoughts are solely on the play and not everything else.

Ok, so we'd have helped JJ acclimate so he'd be better prepared to play minutes at his next school? I mean this sincerely. Again, how is the staff supposed to force a guy into action when he isn't assignment correct? Or if he hasn't shown that he's fully locked in? I loved watching JJ on the sidelines last year and I was hoping he'd break out this year but his transfer isn't on the staff. You can't be everything to everyone, sometimes it's just not a compatible situation.

Again, I hope the staff finds ways to use our young guys more this season but I trust the judgement because they seem like they know what they are doing. Not to mention we have had no media viewings of practice since JJ stepped on campus. Think about that. No one knows better what he was capable of day in and day out than the staff and media can't even guess other than inside sources and 3 min clips of practice.

 

[PANDFAN]

I didn’t include Fleming since his contribution was mainly when Olave was out, it also doesn’t necessarily help the play them a bit point because he has transfer rumors circulating as well. So that could be 2/3 WRs they “worked in” that said nah that’s not enough there’s new guys coming too I’m out. The talent level is certainly different but the point to integrate them a bit is the same, and doesn’t necessarily avoid a disgruntled Spring transfer. That circles back to where I think the volume just needs to be higher, because JJs will continue to happen, just need someone else to balance it out

he isn't transferring, he was injured all last year with a shoulder injury he has had since sometime in high school....the kid lives 10mins from house and if there were ANY real rumors trust me, the town would know

 

[IrishLion]

I think if you look around the country, with some exception, this really isn’t too hard of a nut to crack. The OU, OSUs of the world have 3 stars that never do anything. They have 5 stars that are busts. But the VOLUME of 5 star type WRs is higher and therefore 2 guys emerging per year isn’t really that difficult. Austin, Colzie, Styles and JJ are ones that approach that territory. The 2019 class is truly the killer. ‘18 I will give one final pass to Austin could have had some damn bad luck and hopefully we see that talent this fall. 2020 you missed on JJ, alright move on. 2021 we believe in Colzie and Styles. It’s that it was 1 in 18 and 1 in 20 and 0 in 2019 class that left virtually ZERO margin for error in Kevin Austin. 2 per class needs to be the expectation. You will 100% have busts but you need basically 1 per class to pan out to field a Playoff WR core

Everybody keeps forgetting Jayden Thomas in the current WR uproar, which means he's destined to be the most steady and reliable contributor from the class lol

 

[Irishnuke]

I think you are finally coming around to the true problem: we haven't added enough talented WRs every year. This has nothing to do with snaps. What the hell would 15 snaps have done for a receiver? And why do you believe you know more than the staff?

Here's what we can say: JJ wasn't an immediate difference maker. Almost a year into the program, he played in his first BG game and the staff called a play for him and he ran it incorrectly. That's a very small sample size. If that's what you see as a coach in practice, then how TF are you supposed to put him in a real game? I'm sure he's good in 1v1 situations. He looks smooth and it always appeared he could create some separation without being a true burner.

I hope Lo Styles gets snaps if he can help and be assignment sound. Same for X Watts, Brunelle, Colzie, Thomas. But the staff are putting guys in the league and they are developing their players. This isn't a development issue. This is a RECRUITING TALENT issue. It's a more extreme example of what happened on OL. As Hiestand was leaving, his recruiting took a massive plunge, then Quinn took over and brought in some good prospects but not enough. 2020 he brought in two players after having 3-4 transfer out in the classes prior. Now we need freshmen to hit, fortunately we recruited true blue chip immediate difference makers and we have a little more talent from past classes and hopefully enough depth.

I thought it was widely known that everyone knows more than the staff.

 

[ND88]

Nothing new under the sun. A young man trying to figure out his life, determining what path works best for him. One door closes. Another opens. The same for the player who is poised to take his spot long term.

 

[Rogue219]

I'd also like to address Driskell's dum dum azz. He is so bitter about BK it makes me sick to listen to him anymore. And he never gives Vince an opportunity to talk. He had a lot to say about this and as if he really has an inside source on how the entire operation works in side ND Football. It was almost laughable. That is all...

He's bitter in general, and an asshole. He treated his Twitter followers like dog crap and people kept going back for more. A very arrogant individual who if he was half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be coaching somewhere.

 

[Irish#1]

Ok, so we'd have helped JJ acclimate so he'd be better prepared to play minutes at his next school? I mean this sincerely. Again, how is the staff supposed to force a guy into action when he isn't assignment correct? Or if he hasn't shown that he's fully locked in? I loved watching JJ on the sidelines last year and I was hoping he'd break out this year but his transfer isn't on the staff. You can't be everything to everyone, sometimes it's just not a compatible situation.

Again, I hope the staff finds ways to use our young guys more this season but I trust the judgement because they seem like they know what they are doing. Not to mention we have had no media viewings of practice since JJ stepped on campus. Think about that. No one knows better what he was capable of day in and day out than the staff and media can't even guess other than inside sources and 3 min clips of practice.

I was talking about freshmen in general that are showing the traits of developing. Not someone like JJ.

Many moons ago, I was coaching a youth FB all-star team. It was made up of the best from the league. I was excited because I got one boy who was the fastest in the league. We practiced for two weeks before our first game. No matter how much we ran it in practice, he could not remember any play except for a jet sweep, which apparently is all they ran for him during the season. In the second half we call for a simple off tackle. QB hands him the ball and he freezes in the backfield. His dad pulled him from the team because he wasn't getting more playing time. lol

 

[NDRock]

I was talking about freshmen in general that are showing the traits of developing. Not someone like JJ.

Many moons ago, I was coaching a youth FB all-star team. It was made up of the best from the league. I was excited because I got one boy who was the fastest in the league. We practiced for two weeks before our first game. No matter how much we ran it in practice, he could not remember any play except for a jet sweep, which apparently is all they ran for him during the season. In the second half we call for a simple off tackle. QB hands him the ball and he freezes in the backfield. His dad pulled him from the team because he wasn't getting more playing time. lol

Should have called a jet sweep.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The problem is that JJ wasn't a burner. So what special route could he have run that our other WRs couldn't? Chris Brown busted out some vertical routes, so did Fuller and Stepherson to a lesser degree.

My guess would be short distance/ red zone with his size.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

For a 3-9 team not coached by Kelly that was the victim of the previous staff's utter recruiting neglect and failure. Tate got out there out of necessity more than anything else. Stovall, Samardzija and McKnight were all gone.

There are plenty of guys who can't do the job even when you draw something up in the dirt. Again, if you're the 28th best player in America and truly that, they're going to find a way to get you on the field if you can cut it.

I think he didn't cut it and quite a bit of that is his fault.

Agree completely on Golden. We aren't at practice and don't know what JJ could or couldn't do, but it doesn't help the narrative of WRs don't play at ND until their junior or senior year. Because that ain't the case at the Big 3 (Bama, Clemson, Ohio St).

 

[Irish#1]

Should have called a jet sweep.

Lol

 

[calvegas04]

Do we want to win games or keep freshmen happy?

 

[PANDFAN]

My guess would be short distance/ red zone with his size.

with his size? how tall you think he is??? he's 6'1 at best....red zone is not the time to toss a freshman in unless they are some huge target which he isn't

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Im sorry... but if the kid cant remember a play specifically designed to go to him after an intense period of training during spring ball.... no way Kelly puts him on the field. Knowing the plays and not executing is one thing. Not knowing the play is coming to you after you leave the huddle is a

 

[PANDFAN]

serious question.....for those clamoring for JJ to have played last year or continue to beat the drum of finding ways for him to get in......did you play football? reason i ask is because if you were on the team and are busting your ass to learn the playbook, school, doing whatever is asked from you at practice then you don't play; however here is a kid that had academic issues, didn't show up prepared at the blue/gold game but yet he should have playing time carved out for him....how do you think that goes over w/ others doing the right thing ..it's bad for the culture

 

[Dale]

serious question.....for those clamoring for JJ to have played last year or continue to beat the drum of finding ways for him to get in......did you play football? reason i ask is because if you were on the team and are busting your ass to learn the playbook, school, doing whatever is asked from you at practice then you don't play; however here is a kid that had academic issues, didn't show up prepared at the blue/gold game but yet he should have playing time carved out for him....how do you think that goes over w/ others doing the right thing ..it's bad for the culture

I already said earlier but the blue and gold game thing is frankly, a cheap shot. He was clearly already planning to transfer at that point. Critiquing a spring game performance is already a stretch but critiquing the performance of someone just seeing it through to the end of spring is just not valuable takeaway to me

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I already said earlier but the blue and gold game thing is frankly, a cheap shot. He was clearly already planning to transfer at that point. Critiquing a spring game performance is already a stretch but critiquing the performance of someone just seeing it through to the end of spring is just not valuable takeaway to me

I may have missed it and apologize in advance but is there a source for the claim he was "clearly" transferring?

 

[Dale]

I may have missed it and apologize in advance but is there a source for the claim he was "clearly" transferring?

No nothing to confirm that but I don’t see ND having a graphic ready for him to fire off Monday morning and JJ making the decision in a 36 hour span without some prior conversation. I am making assumptions, which definitely ironic considering my post, but I can see it being a case where he already talked to the staff at least days prior and maybe they said hey see it through or see how you feel after the spring game and if still the same then we’ll take the next step, or something to that effect.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

No nothing to confirm that but I don’t see ND having a graphic ready for him to fire off Monday morning and JJ making the decision in a 36 hour span without some prior conversation. I am making assumptions, which definitely ironic considering my post, but I can see it being a case where he already talked to the staff at least days prior and maybe they said hey see it through or see how you feel after the spring game and if still the same then we’ll take the next step, or something to that effect.

Ok... I think there were plenty of red flags in the air by the time of the game but if anyhting the spring game reinforced that he just wasnt ready for sure and didnt make the improvements needed during the spring period and that playing time would not be forthcoming.

 

[PANDFAN]

No nothing to confirm that but I don’t see ND having a graphic ready for him to fire off Monday morning and JJ making the decision in a 36 hour span without some prior conversation. I am making assumptions, which definitely ironic considering my post, but I can see it being a case where he already talked to the staff at least days prior and maybe they said hey see it through or see how you feel after the spring game and if still the same then we’ll take the next step, or something to that effect.

so then your whole point goes out the window...if this had been all orchestrated prior to blue/gold then why would BK play him at all or call a designed play for him???? makes no sense unless you are trying to showcase his potential to another team or you're throwing a bone to a kid for putting time into the program but either way you slice it, he wasn't prepared/locked in/focused or as BK famously says,....."traits" and doing the little things and up to this point, he has struggled with this per BK...but that is what we know, not assume

 

[Dale]

so then your whole point goes out the window...if this had been all orchestrated prior to blue/gold then why would BK play him at all or call a designed play for him???? makes no sense unless you are trying to showcase his potential to another team or you're throwing a bone to a kid for putting time into the program but either way you slice it, he wasn't prepared/locked in/focused or as BK famously says,....."traits" and doing the little things and up to this point, he has struggled with this per BK...but that is what we know, not assume

My whole point is giving hyper credence to a spring game, at any point but certainly not in this case, it’s not nearly relevant enough to phrase it as hand in hand with “academic issues”. If you want to reference practice all of that sure it’s worth referencing but implying a spring game performance is clear evidence that JJ would be contributing to poor team culture? That’s just hyperbole

 

[Trait Expectations]

My whole point is giving hyper credence to a spring game, at any point but certainly not in this case, it’s not nearly relevant enough to phrase it as hand in hand with “academic issues”. If you want to reference practice all of that sure it’s worth referencing but implying a spring game performance is clear evidence that JJ would be contributing to poor team culture? That’s just hyperbole

It's not hyperbole, it's another data point in a trend that backs up what the staff has been saying. I love JJ, from all accounts he's a good kid and he tried to make it work. It could've been the balance was so difficult that a change of scenery is exactly what is needed. I have no doubt JJ can put up numbers at his next landing spot. He was not ready to do that at ND so this separation will be better for both parties. I wanted him to breakthrough, I wanted things to click and I was high on JJ (going as far as comparing him to Marvin Harrison).

It wasn't meant to be. The staff need to fill out the 22 class with immediate contributors and some of Styles, Colzie, Thomas, Brunelle and Watts need to earn snaps this fall. There were too many whiffs in the middle classes so they need to mature quickly and eat the playbook every. single. day.

 

[Irishnuke]

I may have missed it and apologize in advance but is there a source for the claim he was "clearly" transferring?

Some dudes in this thread

 

[irishandy]

If JJ didn't come in as a 5* recruit would this be a big deal?