2016 Presidential Horse Race

2016 Presidential Horse Race


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NDinL.A.

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Let's dispell once and for all with this notion that Donald Trump doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.

What will everyone's take away from this scuffle be? People that hate Trump will continue to hate Trump and focus on the lie. People that love Trump won't care about the lie and will focus on the media trying to screw with Don. People on the fence or barely in tune with politics will hear in passing about Trump raising 6 million dollars for vets.

Unstumpable

Besides the point. No one disputes that he uses the media masterfully. And just because he thinks he knows what he is doing, doesn't mean it is right nor does it mean it is a good look. His lack of composure and the way he blows up at every little perceived slight (he's done this forever, not just as a politician) - I don't even want to think about what will happen when another nation's leader tells him to fuck off when they don't like his "deal" that he proposes.

And the fact that this reality show clown is fooling so many Americans is startling and scary. Dude is so addicted to attention and to himself it's unreal. That press conference perfectly encapsulated how off the rails he is. How anyone buys this baby's act is beyond me.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I thought this was a good read regarding why Bernie is still in the race battling not only HRC but the DNC as well. Couple of key points:

1) Superdelegates are used to support the strongest candidate in order to win the WH. They're also there to prevent an extreme outsider (like Bernie) from winning BUT their main goal is to ensure a general election victory. HRC is not the stronger of the two candidates based on almost every poll. Bernie wants to make this argument at the convention (and he has a point).

2) He wants to effect the party platform. He's fighting against the Neo Liberal Corporate Dems that used to be the New Deal Dems. Any FDR supporters out there should be happy Bernie is doing this. At the very least, people should understand it. The media, shockingly, isn't reporting it this way though.


How to Explain the Sanders Campaign to an Idiot, Paul Krugman or a Clintonite in 8 Sentences
 

RDU Irish

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I thought this was a good read regarding why Bernie is still in the race battling not only HRC but the DNC as well. Couple of key points:

1) Superdelegates are used to support the strongest candidate in order to win the WH. They're also there to prevent an extreme outsider (like Bernie) from winning BUT their main goal is to ensure a general election victory. HRC is not the stronger of the two candidates based on almost every poll. Bernie wants to make this argument at the convention (and he has a point).

2) He wants to effect the party platform. He's fighting against the Neo Liberal Corporate Dems that used to be the New Deal Dems. Any FDR supporters out there should be happy Bernie is doing this. At the very least, people should understand it. The media, shockingly, isn't reporting it this way though.


How to Explain the Sanders Campaign to an Idiot, Paul Krugman or a Clintonite in 8 Sentences

All great points - I didn't read the article because I couldn't get over the redundancy of the title.
 

RDU Irish

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Let me get this straight! Your proof of her intimidation/harassment/threatening/derogatory statements, etc. is that she, or someone associated with the Clintons, called someone a "bimbo" or a "stalker"? And where do you stand on the Republican nominee for president, who has taken derogatory statements to a new level? Is he accountable for all of his own statements, as well as the statements attributed to his supporters?

You must be young - I don't think anybody who was an adult in the 90s is going to dispute that Hillary was, at best, unkind to all of Bill's persons of interest.
 

woolybug25

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It's hard to take you serious when you overreact at any opportunity.


They're press conferences, not debates. She could hold pseudo press conferences like Trump and not get asked about anything. Instead, she uses the strategy of staying out of them instead of just making them a charade.

Relax. She'll do plenty to make you angry. Don't blow your load on this non-story.
 

dales5050

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She'll do plenty to make you angry. Don't blow your load on this non-story.

It's is for sure a 'story'...suggesting otherwise is silly.

She does not want to answer questions about her email server. If she held a press conference that is pretty much the only questions she would be asked.

She would also have to keep track of all of her previous comments (dare I say lies) on the issue. As they say, if you want to remember what you did or said...just tell the truth. It's also why she is not going to debate Sanders in California.

Each of the 3 are running different campaigns.

Trump is using press conferences and twitter because, good or bad, he is in control of those.

Sanders is using stump speeches and rallies to work up his troops.

Clinton is deflecting and letting the DNC and media run thing.
 

woolybug25

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It's is for sure a 'story'...suggesting otherwise is silly.

She does not want to answer questions about her email server. If she held a press conference that is pretty much the only questions she would be asked.

She would also have to keep track of all of her previous comments (dare I say lies) on the issue. As they say, if you want to remember what you did or said...just tell the truth. It's also why she is not going to debate Sanders in California.

Each of the 3 are running different campaigns.

Trump is using press conferences and twitter because, good or bad, he is in control of those.

Sanders is using stump speeches and rallies to work up his troops.

Clinton is deflecting and letting the DNC and media run thing.

Let me ask you, how many times has Trump had to answer questions about Trump University, former infidelities or his taxes? He doesn't answer to them because he controls the press conferences. Do you think or expect Hillary to do differently if she held them? To act like it's an outrage that she doesn't hold press conferences is silly when Trumps are charades of his own design. Neither candidate is holding press conferences with direct questioning from the press. So if Hillary is a "FUCKING COWARD" (ARRRGGH!!!)... Then Trump is too. As neither takes questions from press.

Again, they will both get them in debates. You're wasting your breath of you think either candidate is going to answer them before then. There is nothing to gain.
 

GoIrish41

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Let me ask you, how many times has Trump had to answer questions about Trump University, former infidelities or his taxes? He doesn't answer to them because he controls the press conferences. Do you think or expect Hillary to do differently if she held them? To act like it's an outrage that she doesn't hold press conferences is silly when Trumps are charades of his own design. Neither candidate is holding press conferences with direct questioning from the press. So if Hillary is a "FUCKING COWARD" (ARRRGGH!!!)... Then Trump is too. As neither takes questions from press.

Again, they will both get them in debates. You're wasting your breath of you think either candidate is going to answer them before then. There is nothing to gain.

^This
 

GATTACA!

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Let me ask you, how many times has Trump had to answer questions about Trump University, former infidelities or his taxes? He doesn't answer to them because he controls the press conferences. Do you think or expect Hillary to do differently if she held them? To act like it's an outrage that she doesn't hold press conferences is silly when Trumps are charades of his own design. Neither candidate is holding press conferences with direct questioning from the press. So if Hillary is a "FUCKING COWARD" (ARRRGGH!!!)... Then Trump is too. As neither takes questions from press.

Again, they will both get them in debates. You're wasting your breath of you think either candidate is going to answer them before then. There is nothing to gain.

He has answered questions about Trump university and his taxes. He says the Trump university stuff is lies and that he could have settled out of court a long time ago but he's not going to pay off liars. On the taxes he's said that he wouldn't release them until his audit was completed. You might not like his evasive answers but it's simply a lie to say he hasn't taken questions on those topics.

Also you really think asking him a question about his personal sex life from a decade ago is an appropriate thing to bring up at a press conference? Seems pretty irrelevant. No one cares that Bill likes to hit everything that moves, the issue is the fact that Hillary slandered the women involved to try and hide his actions and is now running a campaign on the fact that she's best for women. Even with that being said I don't think that would be an appropriate line of questions for a press conference.

It wasn't just this article that got me angry about this issue. I've been beating this drum for quite a while, every time this streak reached another ridiculous milestone I've been bringing it up. She's avoiding questions because the last time she took them she looked like a complete fool answering the question about her servers with the hilarious "with a cloth?" line. It's also no coincidence she's chickening out on her remaining debate with Bernie. Trump also backed out but at least that wasn't his responsibility to begin with.

It's funny if Trump was orchestrating these press conferences and only allowing certain questions you would think someone would write a story about that? Never heard anything about it until someone is trying to defend Hillary's cowardice.
 
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GoIrish41

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He has answered questions about Trump university and his taxes. He says the Trump university stuff is lies and that he could have settled out of court a long time ago but he's not going to pay off liars. On the taxes he's said that he wouldn't release them until his audit was completed. You might not like his evasive answers but it's simply a lie to say he hasn't taken questions on those topics.

Also you really think asking him a question about his personal sex life from a decade ago is an appropriate thing to bring up at a press conference? Seems pretty irrelevant. No one cares that Bill likes to hit everything that moves, the issue is the fact that Hillary slandered the women involved to try and hide his actions and is now running a campaign on the fact that she's best for women. Even with that being said I don't think that would be an appropriate line of questions for a press conference.

It wasn't just this article that got me angry about this issue. I've been beating this drum for quite a while, every time this streak reached another ridiculous milestone I've been bringing it up. She's avoiding questions because the last time she took them she looked like a complete fool answering the question about her servers with the hilarious "with a cloth?" line. It's also no coincidence she's chickening out on her remaining debate with Bernie. Trump also backed out but at least that wasn't his responsibility to begin with.

It's funny if Trump was orchestrating these press conferences and only allowing certain questions you would think someone would write a story about that? Never heard anything about it until someone is trying to defend Hillary's cowardice.

"Taking questions" is not the issue. "Answering questions is." His audit is complete (and was not keeping him from releasing his taxes to begin with), and now he is saying it is not of anyone's business. Begs the question ... what is he hiding? Eventually he'll have to answer for that or she will use it as a weapon to beat him with until November. I don't really blame him for not answering questions, though. Every time he tries, he says something profoundly stupid -- like suggesting its time for more countries to start building up nuclear arsenals or completely reversing course on his proposals that he spoke of not a day earlier. Wooly is right, there is nothing for Hillary to gain by holding a press conference at this point. She is going to win the Dem primary. Exposing herself to hostile questions from news outlets that focus on gotcha speculative topics would be foolish at this point. Secure the nomination, and pivot to the general election. That is the smart play for her just as avoiding the pitfalls of detailed answers is the smart play for him ... until the voters instist that it is time that questions get answered. When they have to actually answer substanative questions, it will become clear who is prepared to be president and who is completely unprepared. She will make him look foolish in the debates.
 

Whiskeyjack

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ND Professor (and world-renowned philosopher) Alisdair MacIntyre wrote this in 2004:

The Only Vote Worth Casting in November

Alasdair MacIntyre
University of Notre Dame

When offered a choice between two politically intolerable alternatives, it is important to choose neither. And when that choice is presented in rival arguments and debates that exclude from public consideration any other set of possibilities, it becomes a duty to withdraw from those arguments and debates, so as to resist the imposition of this false choice by those who have arrogated to themselves the power of framing the alternatives. These are propositions which in the abstract may seem to invite easy agreement. But, when they find application to the coming presidential election, they are likely to be rejected out of hand. For it has become an ingrained piece of received wisdom that voting is one mark of a good citizen, not voting a sign of irresponsibility. But the only vote worth casting in November is a vote that no one will be able to cast, a vote against a system that presents one with a choice between Bush's conservatism and Kerry's liberalism, those two partners in ideological debate, both of whom need the other as a target.

Why should we reject both? Not primarily because they give us wrong answers, but because they answer the wrong questions. What then are the right political questions? One of them is: What do we owe our children? And the answer is that we owe them the best chance that we can give them of protection and fostering from the moment of conception onwards. And we can only achieve that if we give them the best chance that we can both of a flourishing family life, in which the work of their parents is fairly and adequately rewarded, and of an education which will enable them to flourish. These two sentences, if fully spelled out, amount to a politics. It is a politics that requires us to be pro-life, not only in doing whatever is most effective in reducing the number of abortions, but also in providing healthcare for expectant mothers, in facilitating adoptions, in providing aid for single-parent families and for grandparents who have taken parental responsibility for their grandchildren. And it is a politics that requires us to make as a minimal economic demand the provision of meaningful work that provides a fair and adequate wage for every working parent, a wage sufficient to keep a family well above the poverty line.

The basic economic injustice of our society is that the costs of economic growth are generally borne by those least able to afford them and that the majority of the benefits of economic growth go to those who need them least. Compare the rise in wages of ordinary working people over the last thirty years to the rise in the incomes and wealth of the top twenty percent. Compare the value of minimum wage now to its value then and next compare the value of the remuneration of CEOs to its value then. What is needed to secure family life is a sufficient minimum income for every family and that can perhaps best be secured by some version of the negative income tax, proposed long ago by Milton Friedman, a tax that could be used to secure a large and just redistribution of income and so of property.

We note at this point that we have already broken with both parties and both candidates. Try to promote the pro-life case that we have described within the Democratic Party and you will at best go unheard and at worst be shouted down. Try to advance the case for economic justice as we have described it within the Republican Party and you will be laughed out of court. Above all, insist, as we are doing, that these two cases are inseparable, that each requires the other as its complement, and you will be met with blank incomprehension. For the recognition of this is precluded by the ideological assumptions in terms of which the political alternatives are framed. Yet at the same time neither party is wholeheartedly committed to the cause of which it is the ostensible defender. Republicans happily endorse pro-choice candidates, when it is to their advantage to do so. Democrats draw back from the demands of economic justice with alacrity, when it is to their advantage to do so. And in both cases rhetorical exaggeration disguises what is lacking in political commitment.

In this situation a vote cast is not only a vote for a particular candidate, it is also a vote cast for a system that presents us only with unacceptable alternatives. The way to vote against the system is not to vote.

Twelve years later, it's more true than ever.
 

Irish YJ

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"Taking questions" is not the issue. "Answering questions is." His audit is complete (and was not keeping him from releasing his taxes to begin with), and now he is saying it is not of anyone's business. Begs the question ... what is he hiding? Eventually he'll have to answer for that or she will use it as a weapon to beat him with until November. I don't really blame him for not answering questions, though. Every time he tries, he says something profoundly stupid -- like suggesting its time for more countries to start building up nuclear arsenals or completely reversing course on his proposals that he spoke of not a day earlier. Wooly is right, there is nothing for Hillary to gain by holding a press conference at this point. She is going to win the Dem primary. Exposing herself to hostile questions from news outlets that focus on gotcha speculative topics would be foolish at this point. Secure the nomination, and pivot to the general election. That is the smart play for her just as avoiding the pitfalls of detailed answers is the smart play for him ... until the voters instist that it is time that questions get answered. When they have to actually answer substanative questions, it will become clear who is prepared to be president and who is completely unprepared. She will make him look foolish in the debates.

I truly doubt she will make anyone look foolish. To someone who is disgusted by both (me), they both will look foolish if asked to truly answer the hard questions. They both have graveyards of skeletons in their closets, and neither is trustworthy. To anyone who supports one of them, the other will look foolish, and nothing will change. It's that easy. It becomes a question of who do you dislike less.
 

woolybug25

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I truly doubt she will make anyone look foolish. To someone who is disgusted by both (me), they both will look foolish if asked to truly answer the hard questions. They both have graveyards of skeletons in their closets, and neither is trustworthy. To anyone who supports one of them, the other will look foolish, and nothing will change. It's that easy. It becomes a question of who do you dislike less.

I dislike them both as well, but there is no doubt that Hillary is a skilled debater.
 

NorthDakota

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I truly doubt she will make anyone look foolish. To someone who is disgusted by both (me), they both will look foolish if asked to truly answer the hard questions. They both have graveyards of skeletons in their closets, and neither is trustworthy. To anyone who supports one of them, the other will look foolish, and nothing will change. It's that easy. It becomes a question of who do you dislike less.

This. It'll be relatively entertaining/sad television just because of this post.
 

Irish YJ

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This. It'll be relatively entertaining/sad television just because of this post.

Who needs dramas or comedies with this kinda crap on the TV in a few months, right? LOL
So sad you might as well enjoy the entertainment factor. Hilldog and Trumpster are gonna be just like peas and carrots ,, lol.
 

Irish YJ

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I dislike them both as well, but there is no doubt that Hillary is a skilled debater.

I think you're underestimating Trump in what will be IMO a knockdown drag out. Trump may not have the political debate experience, but he's debated enough in his life not to cave under the heel of Hilldog.

Both have a ton of ammo on each other. Hilldog's master-d-bater skills will likely get overshadowed by Trumpster's showmanship and BS anyway. I can see Trump spinning BS answers as well or better than Hilldog. I personally can't wait to see her under pressure and asked directly on live TV about details of the email server.

I'd also wager that at some point Hilldog loses her cool as well and shows all of us a clearer picture of the real Hilldog. Regardless, both will look like idiots to the impartial.
 

GoIrish41

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I think you're underestimating Trump in what will be IMO a knockdown drag out. Trump may not have the political debate experience, but he's debated enough in his life not to cave under the heel of Hilldog.

Both have a ton of ammo on each other. Hilldog's master-d-bater skills will likely get overshadowed by Trumpster's showmanship and BS anyway. I can see Trump spinning BS answers as well or better than Hilldog. I personally can't wait to see her under pressure and asked directly on live TV about details of the email server.

I'd also wager that at some point Hilldog loses her cool as well and shows all of us a clearer picture of the real Hilldog. Regardless, both will look like idiots to the impartial.

I highly doubt the debates are going to be about personal scandals and who has what dirt on who. When asked about what their position is on nuclear proliferation, for example, Hillary will be able to draw on decades of experience in the intricacies of foreign diplomacy, and Trump will bellow out some crazy shit about how we need Japan and S. Korea to get into the nuclear arms race. He'll scare a lot of people in this country and around the world who expect the leader of the free world to have enough intelligence to understand why that kind of rhetoric is dangerous. General election voters want more than ham-fisted bluster. They want substance, not playground insults and name calling. The debates will focus us appropriately on issues facing the country, and that is where Hillary will demonstrate that she is light years ahead of Trump in the amount of thought she has given them. I have to believe that at some point, all the bluster, tough guy vagaries won't be enough to carry the day (this isn't the GOP primary anymore). More thoughtful answers to pressing issues will have to be forthcoming from the candidates. One is prepared to give them, and one is not. It is really as simple as that.
 
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woolybug25

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I think you're underestimating Trump in what will be IMO a knockdown drag out. Trump may not have the political debate experience, but he's debated enough in his life not to cave under the heel of Hilldog.

Both have a ton of ammo on each other. Hilldog's master-d-bater skills will likely get overshadowed by Trumpster's showmanship and BS anyway. I can see Trump spinning BS answers as well or better than Hilldog. I personally can't wait to see her under pressure and asked directly on live TV about details of the email server.

I'd also wager that at some point Hilldog loses her cool as well and shows all of us a clearer picture of the real Hilldog. Regardless, both will look like idiots to the impartial.

I think you're underestimating the national debate platform. He might have gotten away with personal attacks, menstration jokes and threats in the Republican Debates. But he doesn't have that luxury in the national stage. He has to debate. He has to give details. He has to show up. This is where Hillary will slay him. He can't just stand up there making dumb faces and calling her names. The moderator will step in, the press will pounce and he will be embarrassed on a national stage.
 

Legacy

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I thought this was a good read regarding why Bernie is still in the race battling not only HRC but the DNC as well. Couple of key points:

1) Superdelegates are used to support the strongest candidate in order to win the WH. They're also there to prevent an extreme outsider (like Bernie) from winning BUT their main goal is to ensure a general election victory. HRC is not the stronger of the two candidates based on almost every poll. Bernie wants to make this argument at the convention (and he has a point).

2) He wants to effect the party platform. He's fighting against the Neo Liberal Corporate Dems that used to be the New Deal Dems. Any FDR supporters out there should be happy Bernie is doing this. At the very least, people should understand it. The media, shockingly, isn't reporting it this way though.


How to Explain the Sanders Campaign to an Idiot, Paul Krugman or a Clintonite in 8 Sentences

Are you saying that the pseudo-SocialCrats who morphed into neo-Indo Secularists no longer weld any real influence outside their well-funded SuperPac?
 

GDomer09

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How is this nation so dam stupid that we chose Hillary or Trump to be our next president.... How?..... Seriously?

We're talking about a large ass percentage!!! There were other candidates from both sides to offer.

For the Republican side I get it a little more. Trump was speaking for a lot of people in the beginning that were sick of all the PC shit and smaller minority amounts of people forcing the majority to change or be labeled. I get it, but again Trump will still have to prove in the debates he has good plans/policies. I wanted Kasich/Rubio.

For the Democratic side it was like an automatic Hillary or Bernie from the get go. For the record I would vote for Bernie over Hillary in a heartbeat. How does someone under investigation and with proof after proof of wrong doing get the candidacy? Someone who has been caught in lies after lies get the votes? WTF is going on here? At least all Trumps wrong doings happened when he wasn't holding a government position!!!! This means lying and committing crime while serving the people of this nation is not below her.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I have a hard time believing these are the people the public chose!!


Can a Democrat please explain Hilary to me? Iv'e heard the Trump explaination enough.
 

ACamp1900

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A large enough portion of the right was so obsessed with sticking a middle finger up to the establishment that they'd support anyone, even Donald Trump, if they perceived him to be anti-establishment, even if he isn't actually anti-establishment.

A large enough portion of the left was so obsessed with ethnic and gender quotas that they'd support anyone, even Hillary Clinton, if that meant getting a woman in the White House, even if Hillary Clinton isn't actually a woman.
 

NorthDakota

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A large enough portion of the right was so obsessed with sticking a middle finger up to the establishment that they'd support anyone, even Donald Trump, if they perceived him to be anti-establishment, even if he isn't actually anti-establishment.

A large enough portion of the left was so obsessed with ethnic and gender quotas that they'd support anyone, even Hillary Clinton, if that meant getting a woman in the White House, even if Hillary Clinton isn't actually a woman.

Didn't help that a million republicans were running...if it had been 3 or 4 like on the Dems side, The Donald would not have won. Seemed like too many of the establishment type guys were taking away from each other instead of taking away from The Donald.
 

woolybug25

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Didn't help that a million republicans were running...if it had been 3 or 4 like on the Dems side, The Donald would not have won. Seemed like too many of the establishment type guys were taking away from each other instead of taking away from The Donald.

It didn't help that the entire field (outside of Kasich, who has a very punchable personality) were weirdos.

Seriously. All the Republicans had to do was put a guy in a suit that spoke well and wasn't completely insane. Instead... They gave us Trump.

They had one job...
 

ACamp1900

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It didn't help that the entire field (outside of Kasich, who has a very punchable personality) were weirdos.

Seriously. All the Republicans had to do was put a guy in a suit that spoke well and wasn't completely insane. Instead... They gave us Trump.

They had one job...

I know he has serious mutant ears but Rubio wasn't that off either, I could have supported he or Kasich.
 
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