2016 Presidential Horse Race

[connor_in]

 

[connor_in]

 

[connor_in]

 

[kmoose]

Students across the country used the rhetoric of a Presidential candidate to blast racial slurs at other student bodies?

Are you really saying that has been common over time?

What I'm saying is that teenagers saying mean things about another teenager's ethnicity has been going on for as long as the word ethnicity has been around, if not longer. And they will use any rhetoric that is in the social limelight to do it.

In my opinion, this was not a case of a Presidential candidate influencing teenagers to be racist; it is simply a case of some cruel teenagers hijacking a Presidential candidate's words.

 

[connor_in]

 

[woolybug25]

What I'm saying is that teenagers saying mean things about another teenager's ethnicity has been going on for as long as the word ethnicity has been around, if not longer. And they will use any rhetoric that is in the social limelight to do it.

In my opinion, this was not a case of a Presidential candidate influencing teenagers to be racist; it is simply a case of some cruel teenagers hijacking a Presidential candidate's words.

Again... when has a Presidential candidate's words been a usable option to attack other student's ethnicity?

I get that kids say mean things, but I find it pretty telling that we continue to see kids across the country using the Trump's message to fuel racial bigotry. It's something we haven't seen before, or at least in my lifetime.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Yes. Donald Trump is obviously responsible for teen kids saying cruel things to other teens. This NEVER happened before Trump came along....

When kids are quoting Trump's campaign rhetoric, yes, it's his fault.

Yes, kids are mean. What's new.

I don't care if this has been done going back to the beginning of time. It doesn't make it right. So what's your point?

 

[kmoose]

When kids are quoting Trump's campaign rhetoric, yes, it's his fault.

Yes, kids are mean. What's new.

I don't care if this has been done going back to the beginning of time. It doesn't make it right. So what's your point?

Ah.......... gotcha. So heavy metal musicians are responsible for teen suicide, right?

My point is that trying to make this a "look how Trump is turning everyone into racists" moment is simply not logical.

 

[woolybug25]

Ah.......... gotcha. So heavy metal musicians are responsible for teen suicide, right?

My point is that trying to make this a "look how Trump is turning everyone into racists" moment is simply not logical.

No one is making that argument. We aren't saying that Trump is turning kids racist, I'm betting they already were. But let's not act like they don't now have a battle cry to follow. Trump has set a tone for hatred that kids are now using.

The suicide comment isn't even relevant, so I wont address it.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Ah.......... gotcha. So heavy metal musicians are responsible for teen suicide, right?

My point is that trying to make this a "look how Trump is turning everyone into racists" moment is simply not logical.

He didn't turn people into racists. But he has allowed them to come out of the shadows. People are actually sort of proud of it now.

 

[kmoose]

No one is making that argument. We aren't saying that Trump is turning kids racist, I'm betting they already were. But let's not act like they don't now have a battle cry to follow. Trump has set a tone for hatred that kids are now using.

The suicide comment isn't even relevant, so I wont address it.

The suicide comment wasn't directed at you. But saying that just because the words are Trump's that means he is responsible is the same kind of flawed logic that freaked out mothers used to try to blame heavy metal musicians for teenagers committing suicide after listening to their music.

And honestly, I don't think I would even classify these high school kids as racist. This is probably more of a hazing situation than a racist situation.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Build that wall to keep illegals, drugs out is only rhetoric for people to use, cuz dipshits in media and in general turn it into Donald trump is Hitler wants to gas brown ppl to suit their own bias agenda.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Ah.......... gotcha. So heavy metal musicians are responsible for teen suicide, right?

My point is that trying to make this a "look how Trump is turning everyone into racists" moment is simply not logical.

No one is claiming Trump is creating racists. He's allowing people who are already racist an "acceptable" platform to spew their racists beliefs.

 

[woolybug25]

The suicide comment wasn't directed at you. But saying that just because the words are Trump's that means he is responsible is the same kind of flawed logic that freaked out mothers used to try to blame heavy metal musicians for teenagers committing suicide after listening to their music.

Very different scenarios. If a band was specifically making racist songs that kids used to attack other kids of different race, then yes... they most certainly would be responsible. Just as if a band made songs encouraging suicide. I'm not saying they don't have the right to still say it (I believe in the first amendment), but that does not absolve them of responsibility.

And honestly, I don't think I would even classify these high school kids as racist. This is probably more of a hazing situation than a racist situation.

Wut.... I have no words for this comment....

 

[NDohio]

Yes. Donald Trump is obviously responsible for teen kids saying cruel things to other teens. This NEVER happened before Trump came along....

Correct - HS kids are idiots and say things they shouldn't. But, from the article:

The two schools, which match-up once a year in an exhibition game because they are in different conferences, have played each other before, but this is the first time there had been a racist outburst from Elkhorn's fans.

"They've never experienced anything like this. They're upset, offended, as you might imagine," Chuck Seils, the Beloit Memorial school district's athletic director told the Daily News. "We're going to support them any way we can."

Something gave these kids the idea that yelling racist stuff, for the first time ever, was OK.

 

[GoIrish41]

Build that wall to keep illegals, drugs out is only rhetoric for people to use, cuz dipshits in media and in general turn it into Donald trump is Hitler wants to gas brown ppl to suit their own bias agenda.

Yeah, it's the media's fault that Donald Trump says racist things. They would be derelict if they didn't report the crazy stuff he says ... I mean, he is running for president.

 

[IrishLax]

Robert Reich has been countering Krugman's articles this entire election process. I think Krugman has been allowing his HRC bias to shine through a bit too easily. Thomas Picketty has even released pro-Bernie articles/opinions. World's Most Famous Economist Says Bernie Sanders Could "Change the Face of the Country" - Mic

And just recently Gordon Gekko endorsed Bernie referencing how important his policies are for fiscal velocity and well as breaking up the banks.

Posting articles from Krugman does nothing for me anymore because the entire time, he's been bashing Bernie while others have shown support. I'm not sure how you can call Bernie economically illiterate. For example, regarding the hatchet job interview by the NY Daily News and the banks, the NY Times (I believe) (the same day that Krugman posted his article I think) came out supporting Bernie's plans. McCain and Warren are both advocates for breaking them up and agree with Sanders. Lets face it, a lot of people are afraid of Bernie breaking up the status quo in this country and they're also just as afraid of paying higher taxes. If that's your angle, that's fine. But at least be honest about it. Calling Bernie the yin to Trump's yang is absurd if you're referencing insanity.

How? In the interview with Sanders they basically said "yeah! we totally agree! tell us how you would do it!"

And he couldn't. He couldn't give any specifics, because he has literally no idea what he is talking about. He just says the same good-sounding talking points over and over again. It's like the sixth grader running for class president and promising everyone free ice cream.

And frankly, calling a thorough and friendly interview of Sanders where they simply gave him enough rope to hang himself is, at best, comical.

I agree with you that Krugman has been anti-Sanders this entire time, and I said as much. I do think he's a questionable source, but the crux of what he said in that article I think makes a lot sense. They push Sanders for specifics -- like Trump about the wall or deporting people -- and it all falls apart. I leave it up to everyone to draw their own conclusions.

But in that article you linked, here's a direct quote from the first paragraph:

Piketty argues that regardless of Sanders' fate in this particular contest, he has created an opening for similar candidates in the future —"possibly younger and less white" — who could successfully make it into the White House and "change the face of the country."

Doesn't sound like someone interested in sensible economics, sounds like someone interested in social change at all costs. And sorry, but his overall general point also has little-to-nothing to do with the fact that Sanders has no specifics, which is the entire problem I brought up.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

He didn't turn people into racists. But he has allowed them to come out of the shadows. People are actually sort of proud of it now.

Trump bringing bigots out of the shadows may actually be a good thing. I prefer to know who these people are rather than for them to be clandestine bigots. Knowing who they are alerts me to people I need to avoid. I have plenty of liberal and conservative friends, but if someone is a Trump supporter it alerts me that this is not someone I want in my life.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

How? In the interview with Sanders they basically said "yeah! we totally agree! tell us how you would do it!"

And he couldn't. He couldn't give any specifics, because he has literally no idea what he is talking about. He just says the same good-sounding talking points over and over again. It's like the sixth grader running for class president and promising everyone free ice cream.

And frankly, calling a thorough and friendly interview of Sanders where they simply gave him enough rope to hang himself is, at best, comical.

I agree with you that Krugman has been anti-Sanders this entire time, and I said as much. I do think he's a questionable source, but the crux of what he said in that article I think makes a lot sense. They push Sanders for specifics -- like Trump about the wall or deporting people -- and it all falls apart. I leave it up to everyone to draw their own conclusions.

But in that article you linked, here's a direct quote from the first paragraph:

Doesn't sound like someone interested in sensible economics, sounds like someone interested in social change at all costs. And sorry, but his overall general point also has little-to-nothing to do with the fact that Sanders has no specifics, which is the entire problem I brought up.

Enough people have supported Bernie's understanding of legislation, Dodd Frank, etc in order to break up the banks for me to not draw a conclusion that he's clueless. If I'm not mistaken, HRC has the same plan (although most know she won't act on it). John McCain and Elizabeth Warren have supported Bernie's plan as well. Sanders isn't spewing some nonsensical B.S. I just feel that the discussion is so overly complicated that you can't have a simple cut and dry answer, which is what they were pressing him for. They took that interview and used it to unload a mass of negative articles against him over the following day or two. During that time, people at the NY Times, etc have posted articles backing Bernie's plans and admitting to the complexities and how hard they are to explain.

The article I linked that mentions Picketty was just to show an example of how a world-renown economist is supporting Bernie, which is a counter to Krugman bashing Bernie in every article he types. Regarding the "younger, less white" quote, I simply chalked that up to how an old jewish man is paving the way for other populist progressive liberals to make it to the White House. He's struggled with the AA demographic and there have been plenty other groups questioning his age as an issue. So the younger, less white comment may have been a way of suggesting that if Bernie can't win, perhaps someone who's better with those demographics can. Idk, that's just my take on it.

Also, Bernie has provided many more specifics to his plans than most other candidates. Economics is a very complex topic. It is extremely textured and there are many philosophies and beliefs out there. Just because you disagree with Bernie's doesn't mean he simply is economically illiterate.

 

[IrishLax]

Enough people have supported Bernie's understanding of legislation, Dodd Frank, etc in order to break up the banks for me to not draw a conclusion that he's clueless. If I'm not mistaken, HRC has the same plan (although most know she won't act on it). John McCain and Elizabeth Warren have supported Bernie's plan as well. Sanders isn't spewing some nonsensical B.S. I just feel that the discussion is so overly complicated that you can't have a simple cut and dry answer, which is what they were pressing him for.

OK let's focus on this then. What is his plan? We've got plenty of time here, so if you've got a link to its specifics or can explain them yourself I'm all ears. I'm 100% in favor of being as fair and intellectually open here as possible, it's just that what I'm seeing right now is painting a very disturbing picture. I know this might take some time, so if you have a chance either tonight or tomorrow to give me more details on his official plan then I'd really appreciate it.

And to be fair, it wasn't just NY Daily News that ran negative articles the next day... it was dozens and dozens of left-leaning and right-leaning publications that all thought his responses were... inadequate.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

OK let's focus on this then. What is his plan? We've got plenty of time here, so if you've got a link to its specifics or can explain them yourself I'm all ears. I'm 100% in favor of being as fair and intellectually open here as possible, it's just that what I'm seeing right now is painting a very disturbing picture. I know this might take some time, so if you have a chance either tonight or tomorrow to give me more details on his official plan then I'd really appreciate it.

And to be fair, it wasn't just NY Daily News that ran negative articles the next day... it was dozens and dozens of left-leaning and right-leaning publications that all thought his responses were... inadequate.

I'll try and find some good sources with the info you're requesting. I'm about to get busy here at work, so I'll get to it when I can. Sorry for being short.

I know it's not just Daily News, but there are lot of left-leaning outlets out there and just because they're left doesn't mean they support Bernie. A lot of them are owned by people who are donors to HRC and they publish articles accordingly.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Yeah, it's the media's fault that Donald Trump says racist things. They would be derelict if they didn't report the crazy stuff he says ... I mean, he is running for president.

What a sound response. Thx for explaining how saying build a wall stop illegals and drugs is racist. It's all so clear now.

 

[woolybug25]

What a sound response. Thx for explaining how saying build a wall stop illegals and drugs is racist. It's all so clear now.

It was a pretty sound response. He told you the very clear fact that him simply wanting a wall isn't what is racist, it's his additional comments.

It seems like you are the one trying to spin the argument here.

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Building a wall is just stupid and impractical its Trump's comments about banning Muslims from entering the country, inaccurately portraying most of those who cross the border as drug dealers and rapists with he assumes a few decent people sprinkled in, and advocating birther conspiracies that make him an obvious racist. He is also clearly a misogynistic sexist.

 

[NDinL.A.]

What a sound response. Thx for explaining how saying build a wall stop illegals and drugs is racist. It's all so clear now.

The fact that this even needs to be explained is sad.

OK, he wants to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants. 11 million. He said Mexico is sending over rapists and murderers and all kinds of bad people. “SOME are good people I guess” but the rest are criminals. It is indisputable that he said that, no?

So let’s take that “Some” that he’s talking about – I’ll give you 3 million (I would consider that number “some” of 11 million) – so he is saying that out of 11 million undocumented immigrants, 8 MILLION ARE CRIMINALS??? For real? And THAT isn’t racist to you? Either that is racist or he is the dumbest mother fucker in the history of the world. And that is just one example of many. His racism isn’t even a question in my mind.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Actually all 11 million are criminals, why they are called illegal aliens.

 

[NDinL.A.]

The suicide comment wasn't directed at you. But saying that just because the words are Trump's that means he is responsible is the same kind of flawed logic that freaked out mothers used to try to blame heavy metal musicians for teenagers committing suicide after listening to their music.

And honestly, I don't think I would even classify these high school kids as racist. This is probably more of a hazing situation than a racist situation.

Problem is, this isn’t even an isolated incident. This has also happened in Indiana and Iowa. Kids chanting “Build a wall!!!” to kids on an athletic field simply because their skin is brown is not hazing, it is an overtly racist act. It is reminiscent of the 50’s and 60’s, and it is sickening to know that a presidential candidate is promoting racism, and has been said, has made it OK and even cool to be overtly racist.

It boggles my mind that in 2016, people condone this. Students doing this should at the very least be suspended and ordered to go through some sort of sensitivity training or tolerance boot camp or something of that ilk (even though I’m sure it wouldn’t work for 95% of them), and any administrator on hand that didn’t try and stop those chants should be fired. #notexaggerating Maybe those of you who have never had to deal with it don’t get it (kudos to those of you who do get it even if you haven’t ever had to deal with it personally), but the anger/hurt that wells up inside someone being bullied like this is hard to properly explain.

I can say that if I heard the crowd saying that shit to me in HS, I would have completely lost my shit and probably done something stupid, either by trying to fight the crowd or by taking it out on the opponent with a dirty shot.

Look, do some research – there is a reason Trump rallies are 95% Anglo. This asshole is purposely dividing the country, while making it absolutely fine to be openly racist. You CAN secure the borders without being a racist and without trying to divide the country between Anglos and non-Anglos, but Trump has chosen to be who he is – a racist.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Actually all 11 million are criminals, why they are called illegal aliens.

That response shows how far this is over your head, and how you can't even muster a good response. Sad, but typical of a Trump supporter. They simply have no reasoned responses. Bravo for perpetuating the stereotype.

 

[GoIrish41]

What a sound response. Thx for explaining how saying build a wall stop illegals and drugs is racist. It's all so clear now.

Building a wall isn't inherently racist ... building a wall to keep Mexicans from raping our women and getting our kids hooked on drugs probably is. As is the idea that all Muslims are born with the terrorism gene, so we'd better keep them from entering the United States. And when a person running for president says shit like that, well, the media is going to cover it. And, you are actually trying to demonize the media for doing their job instead of assigning the blame to the guy who is putting his bigotry out there for all to see (and some, like the HS kids in the posted article) to emulate. Trump is an irresponsible idiot who attracts a lot of other idiots who seem to want to be more open about their racist ideas. They have demonstrated their propensity for violence at the rallies, and have been all over the airwaves making ignorant, divisive, racially charged arguments for the past year. However I'm sure some of them are good people, but that's not something the lamestream media is going to tell you, I guess. Typical.

 

[GoIrish41]

Problem is, this isn’t even an isolated incident. This has also happened in Indiana and Iowa. Kids chanting “Build a wall!!!” to kids on an athletic field simply because their skin is brown is not hazing, it is an overtly racist act. It is reminiscent of the 50’s and 60’s, and it is sickening to know that a presidential candidate is promoting racism, and has been said, has made it OK and even cool to be overtly racist.

It boggles my mind that in 2016, people condone this. Students doing this should at the very least be suspended and ordered to go through some sort of sensitivity training or tolerance boot camp or something of that ilk (even though I’m sure it wouldn’t work for 95% of them), and any administrator on hand that didn’t try and stop those chants should be fired. #notexaggerating Maybe those of you who have never had to deal with it don’t get it (kudos to those of you who do get it even if you haven’t ever had to deal with it personally), but the anger/hurt that wells up inside someone being bullied like this is hard to properly explain.

I can say that if I heard the crowd saying that shit to me in HS, I would have completely lost my shit and probably done something stupid, either by trying to fight the crowd or by taking it out on the opponent with a dirty shot.

Look, do some research – there is a reason Trump rallies are 95% Anglo. This asshole is purposely dividing the country, while making it absolutely fine to be openly racist. You CAN secure the borders without being a racist and without trying to divide the country between Anglos and non-Anglos, but Trump has chosen to be who he is – a racist.

This is the again he is taking about when he says he is going to Make America Great Again?