ND Men's Basketball 2015-2016 season

[NDgradstudent]

Top 20 classes are where we need to be, imo, to win a title. This is based upon the rankings of title-winning teams the last 15 years, where all of them have had at least one top 20 class in one of the rankings in the four years before the title.

Brey can do more with less for sure, but we need to do more with more. Not being a "blue-blood" program and making kids play school might prevent us from having a top 3 class but it shouldn't prevent us from having a top 20 class (as, I believe, we had in 2013). Also, the talent distribution for basketball is not heavily skewed toward the South as it is in football.

I don't if Brey is a "lazy" or "bad" recruiter, but he has a lot more to sell now.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Acc ranking 7th. National ranking 44 And I understand that ranking isn't everything but it does have value.

It does have value, but so does watching the kids play. Ryan, mark my words, is going to be one of the all-time great ND shooters. He has ridiculous range. Rex more than proved himself this year, is already a lock down defender and I believe next year you will see his true athleticism (it’s REALLY good – he is constantly mentioned as the best dunker on the team by his teammates). I think if Burns stays healthy, he could be very good; the problem is, can he stay healthy? He will have to contribute next year so we’ll get a good look at him.

I think it was a solid class. Not elite, but with Brey's ability to develop players, it was a good class, and much better than 44th IMHO.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Top 20 classes are where we need to be, imo, to win a title. This is based upon the rankings of title-winning teams the last 15 years, where all of them have had at least one top 20 class in one of the rankings in the four years before the title.

Brey can do more with less for sure, but we need to do more with more. Not being a "blue-blood" program and making kids play school might prevent us from having a top 3 class but it shouldn't prevent us from having a top 20 class (as, I believe, we had in 2013). Also, the talent distribution for basketball is not heavily skewed toward the South as it is in football.

I don't if Brey is a "lazy" or "bad" recruiter, but he has a lot more to sell now.

I don't think ND will ever win a title. We just aren't set up to. If the admin made a real commitment to the program, then I'd be with you. But we lag behind BADLY to all the top programs in funding and resources. It's embarrassing. It is a miracle Brey has been to back to back Elite 8’s, the only program in the country to do so the past 2 years, in spite of his woeful support.

As for his recruiting – he is not lazy nor bad, he just has half the budget of real basketball schools, and has very little to sell in relation to those top schools. When you can’t find a place to practice at your normal time for a week because a friggin’ baton twirling competition is being staged where you normally practice, that’s a problem, and it’s indicative of what Brey has to deal with, where his compatriots don’t. Sure, he can finally sell winning, but he still has too much to overcome, as a direct result of the ND's admin not willing to step up and support the program the way it can and should.

 

[fightingirish26]

I don't think ND will ever win a title. We just aren't set up to. If the admin made a real commitment to the program, then I'd be with you. But we lag behind BADLY to all the top programs in funding and resources. It's embarrassing. It is a miracle Brey has been to back to back Elite 8’s, the only program in the country to do so the past 2 years, in spite of his woeful support.

As for his recruiting – he is not lazy nor bad, he just has half the budget of real basketball schools, and has very little to sell in relation to those top schools. When you can’t find a place to practice at your normal time for a week because a friggin’ baton twirling competition is being staged where you normally practice, that’s a problem, and it’s indicative of what Brey has to deal with, where his compatriots don’t. Sure, he can finally sell winning, but he still has too much to overcome, as a direct result of the ND's admin not willing to step up and support the program the way it can and should.

I generally agree with all of this. I think that making the sweet 16 should be the goal each year, although not necessarily the expectation.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I generally agree with all of this. I think that making the sweet 16 should be the goal each year, although not necessarily the expectation.

Personally, I think the goal should be to finish in the top 5 of the ACC each year and win the conference once every five years. To me, that is a far better barometer than success in the NCAA tourney.

 

[NDinL.A.]

All reports are that he is really starting to come into his own and finally developing

Source? Genuinely curious because I have heard the opposite.

Not "all accounts", but the II podcast was blowing him up, saying they had heard that he was the best player on the back-up squad (any non-starter) the past 3 weeks and that he really stepped up his game. We'll see.

 

[irishff1014]

Don't forget that the big East was the premier conference when we were there. So, while it could help, expecting a surge was/is probably unlikely.

Very good point I didn't think about that.

 

[irishff1014]

Top 20 classes are where we need to be, imo, to win a title. This is based upon the rankings of title-winning teams the last 15 years, where all of them have had at least one top 20 class in one of the rankings in the four years before the title.

Brey can do more with less for sure, but we need to do more with more. Not being a "blue-blood" program and making kids play school might prevent us from having a top 3 class but it shouldn't prevent us from having a top 20 class (as, I believe, we had in 2013). Also, the talent distribution for basketball is not heavily skewed toward the South as it is in football.

I don't if Brey is a "lazy" or "bad" recruiter, but he has a lot more to sell now.

Yes 15 I believe.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Not "all accounts", but the II podcast was blowing him up, saying they had heard that he was the best player on the back-up squad (any non-starter) the past 3 weeks and that he really stepped up his game. We'll see.

Ya I heard the same thing. Would be very big. We can't forget how big of a jump mos of our back up big guys have taken. Auguste was not a very good player his first 2 years. Jake Cooley came out of nowhere after 2 years too. Most of it was cause of necessity cause we had no one else but brey has proven he is very good at developing these guys to be ready for play.

As for where the program is we need a practice facility extremely badly. Tom noie said that it is in the works but it could still take another 4-5 years to even get the funds to start. Which then it would be ready in what 6-7 years? We might have to keep waiting on getting great recruits.

We do have a couple guys in 2017 tho which interest. D.J. Harvey is a SF and is a composite 17 on 247. He goes to Dematha which is breys alma mater. Saying he's an Arizona lean with duke behind but should be a huge get.

Then you got Chris lykes who is a 3 star PG and I think his composite is around 150 and he is only 5 7. Just what we need less height

 

[irishff1014]

It does have value, but so does watching the kids play. Ryan, mark my words, is going to be one of the all-time great ND shooters. He has ridiculous range. Rex more than proved himself this year, is already a lock down defender and I believe next year you will see his true athleticism (it’s REALLY good – he is constantly mentioned as the best dunker on the team by his teammates). I think if Burns stays healthy, he could be very good; the problem is, can he stay healthy? He will have to contribute next year so we’ll get a good look at him.

I think it was a solid class. Not elite, but with Brey's ability to develop players, it was a good class, and much better than 44th IMHO.

I will agree with your that Rex is one hell of a defender. And that's probably the only reason he saw time this year. More playing time will increase his offense. I don't know much about Ryan.

 

[irishff1014]

I don't think ND will ever win a title. We just aren't set up to. If the admin made a real commitment to the program, then I'd be with you. But we lag behind BADLY to all the top programs in funding and resources. It's embarrassing. It is a miracle Brey has been to back to back Elite 8’s, the only program in the country to do so the past 2 years, in spite of his woeful support.

As for his recruiting – he is not lazy nor bad, he just has half the budget of real basketball schools, and has very little to sell in relation to those top schools. When you can’t find a place to practice at your normal time for a week because a friggin’ baton twirling competition is being staged where you normally practice, that’s a problem, and it’s indicative of what Brey has to deal with, where his compatriots don’t. Sure, he can finally sell winning, but he still has too much to overcome, as a direct result of the ND's admin not willing to step up and support the program the way it can and should.

I once again agree with you that I don't think they ever win a national championship. I knew some of the things you addressed but not all of that. It sure is interesting to find some of that out. And that's why we won't ever win a NC or get top recruits.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

I will agree with your that Rex is one hell of a defender. And that's probably the only reason he saw time this year. More playing time will increase his offense. I don't know much about Ryan.

Ryan is a mediocre defender but a great shooter. He is like Patty C in the sense that he is tall and could probably play the 4 so we can spread the floor. Didn't drive too much this year so we probably needs to get some muscle on him and some confidence to start doing that. But I've heard some comparisons to Patty. He shoots the 3 really well

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Geben was a 4 star recruit and he's a big guy. 6-10 250. That's a big body. If he can just get his footwork down and make a big step up this year it would be a huge player for us next year

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Also I wouldn't get so down on burns either he could be a great player. 6-9 235. Another big body and have read that one of his best traits is his rebounding. Which we all know is our suggest need. He can shoot too. We will have to wait till this summer to see him in real play but I honestly think he can be a real beast. I saw a pic of him recently and he was absolutely jacked

 

[NDGOLDEN]

http://media.graytvinc.com/images/notre+dame+selection+sunday.jpg

The guy right in front is burns

 

[gkIrish]

Not "all accounts", but the II podcast was blowing him up, saying they had heard that he was the best player on the back-up squad (any non-starter) the past 3 weeks and that he really stepped up his game. We'll see.

Hope that's true. If he can be a productive player next year that would be huge.

 

[fightingirish26]

Personally, I think the goal should be to finish in the top 5 of the ACC each year and win the conference once every five years. To me, that is a far better barometer than success in the NCAA tourney.

Yeah, forgot to look at it at that angle. I agree with this.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

Playing in the legends Classic tournament in November next year with NW, Texas and Colorado

 

[RDU Irish]

Ryan showed he can foul out in five minutes if asked to defend. Lots of room for improvement there but I absolutely love his range and fire shooting the three ball. Will enjoy seeing him get more PT and play a more prominent offensive roll.

Between Torres, Burns and Geben we just may have the bodies to mix it up in the paint. You guys are absolutely right about Brey turning big men in to big time players. Garrity, Cooley, Harangody, Murphy... I think Brey can get benefit of the doubt here. Burns and Geben have the size not to get pushed around by anyone for sure.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Ryan showed he can foul out in five minutes if asked to defend. Lots of room for improvement there but I absolutely love his range and fire shooting the three ball. Will enjoy seeing him get more PT and play a more prominent offensive roll.

Between Torres, Burns and Geben we just may have the bodies to mix it up in the paint. You guys are absolutely right about Brey turning big men in to big time players. Garrity, Cooley, Harangody, Murphy... I think Brey can get benefit of the doubt here. Burns and Geben have the size not to get pushed around by anyone for sure.

I will give you Cooley and Harangody, but Garrity was at ND before Brey and Murphy was a great player for two seasons before Brey started.

 

[Irish Glory]

Geben was a 4 star recruit and he's a big guy. 6-10 250. That's a big body. If he can just get his footwork down and make a big step up this year it would be a huge player for us next year

This year he mastered the sideline celebration

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[johnnycando]

Was a pipe dream at best.

Troll may have gotten fed and I may have an infraction against my record for it, but eventually the little guy came out onto the roadway too often and got a banhammer across the five-head.

Trolls gotta stay under the bridge.

 

[texbender]

Just want to salute the team and staff, they went farther than I thought they could this year. Tough team to watch at times, but it seems Brey generally gets the most out of what he has. The program has handicaps, and probably always will to a degree. They play in a very competitive league and have done pretty well.

 

[BeauBenken]

Troll may have gotten fed and I may have an infraction against my record for it, but eventually the little guy came out onto the roadway too often and got a banhammer across the five-head.

Trolls gotta stay under the bridge.

If you're talking about what I sent your way, it should have only been a warning (I marked it as so on my end), and it should only last ten days. No long term consequences.

 

[johnnycando]

If you're talking about what I sent your way, it should have only been a warning (I marked it as so on my end), and it should only last ten days. No long term consequences.

Yessir I'm accountable and I was wrong in my tact and behavior.

But my target and my aim was true.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Nova's title breaks the 'rule' that title-winning teams sign at least one top-20 class (according to ESPN, 247, and Rivals) in the four years leading up to their title. This was true for every title winner from 2003-2015. Of course Villanova does not come out of nowhere, and the rule can be adjusted to a top-25 class to take account of the new data point.

Some data on recruiting for Nova and ND:

BB Class Recruiting Rankings, 2012-2015: ESPN, Rivals, 247

Villanova
2012: no top 25, 22, 38
2013: 31, not top 20, 32
2014: 37, not top 30, 46
2015: 24, 22, 30
Average (among firm numbers only, rounded): 31

ND
2012: not top 25, 21, 28
2013: 17, not top 20, 15
2014: not top 25, not top 30, 56
2015: 39, not top 25, 45
Average (among firm numbers only, rounded): 32

What to make of this? Some thoughts:

(1) The breaking of this 'rule' is good news for ND, because we aren't recruiting at a level where it is effectively impossible to win a title, although of course the exception still proves the rule, and higher is better. But this raises doubts about academic/location explanations for Villanova's success relative to ND. Recruiting has not been obviously worse at ND.

(2) It is true that it is typically harder to get a top seed out of the ACC than the Big East. One rule that Nova's title does not break is that title-winning teams usually have (a) top-4 seeds in the year that they win (and low-seeded teams that win are almost always elite programs that had mediocre regular seasons, e.g. UConn in 2014) and (b) title winning teams have since 1985 had at least one top-4 seed in the tournaments leading up to their championship tournament.

(3) The Villanova administration gives their premier sport (basketball) the 'chance to succeed,' like ND (football). Of course, ND also gives most of its other sports the 'chance to succeed' (hockey, soccer, and lacrosse facilities are are top-notch, as I understand. Baseball was recently renovated, track and field is being renovated, etc. Not saying they are all perfect.) One exception, alas, is men's and women's basketball, where despite strong fan interest and relatively high levels of success, the practice facilities are relatively low-quality. Like many others here I plan to keep harping on this until we get what we want.

A note on the fan interest: I keep hearing how "nobody cares" about ND basketball, which is why the administration doesn't give it much attention. I went to most men's BB and a bunch of 'big' women's BB home games this year and the Joyce Center was typically 90-100% full. The student interest is not as good as it could be, but students are only one group here. So this line is false.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

2017 SF Corey Kispert is visiting April 18-19. A top 100 national player. Would be a very nice addition

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Sweet.

 

[NDGOLDEN]

https://twitter.com/bginews/status/718144940593709057

 

[ShawneeIrish]

Is Jarett Allen considering ND at all?