2016 Presidential Horse Race

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Redefinition of System 2 to Fit Reality: One person makes $1 billion per year (and his family of four live the life of luxury). One or two of his employees make $60,000 per year (and one or two families of four live modestly at a lower middle class level). The other 7 or 8 employees make less than $15,000 per year and live below the poverty level. (These 7 or 8 families of four are dependent upon the government for food stamps, health care, etc.)

Socialism is built on sharing and a sense of morality. A socialist doesn't dine on caviar on his luxury liner in the Caribbean while his neighbor and his children are going without food, wearing shoes and clothing with holes, and dying of illnesses that can be treated with proper medical care. That is the product of capitalism. Capitalism is built upon greed. I've got mine. Too bad you don't have anything. Oh, well! Not my problem.

Our poor aren't going without food or dying from exposure. I'm all for Bernie but capitalism isn't built upon greed. It has actors that are greedy. It's foundation is open to abuse which is why we need certain regulations in place.

Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. You think he is sitting on his bed at the Motel 6 tonight, eating Dominos? Or is he having surf and turf before returning to his suite at the Hilton?

Bernie appears to live a leaner lifestyle than most politicians so what is the real purpose of this question? To draw a false dichotomy between what he says and what he does? I'd say his track record speaks volumes over his dinner choices and hotel accommodations tonight.

But I'm interested in hearing more about why this wasn't a cheap shot? Do "socialists" not believe in steak or seafood? Or hotels?

 

[pkt77242]

In my opinion, good for the guy making $1 billion a year. He created a company that people use his products and services for their own purposes. Or he took over a company and is still running it smoothly. He should be entitled to do whatever he wants to do with it. That company is willing to innovate and expand so maybe the big guy can make $1.1 billion dollars - while opening up more stores/factories, what have you, and employing more people to work.

You put a cap on that - what drives the owner to innovate and expand? He's not going to make anymore money...so why should he give two cents? So it stalls the growth and leaves jobs on the table that he would have otherwise created.

People aren't happy with the money they are making working under him? There are other jobs out there. Look for them. Not out there - improve your skills or get a higher education to improve your marketability.

I was a financial advisor coming out of college. I loved personal finances because I was so outraged by how America doesn't have the money to retire on or that they expected social security was going to pull them through when it was just meant to be a supplement. I failed at it. One because I wasn't good at getting the clientele. Two because people would rather have the supermax cable package or two more cases a beer per month then to put money away. I stuck with it but still wasn't making ends meet. I wasn't looking for hand outs. I then met my wife and had to call it quits with my profession I dreamed of doing and got into corporate America. I wanted to move up, so I took classes and will work on my Masters to move up even further. I don't think I would have that drive if everything was fair.

The person next to me shouldn't get the same stuff I get if I've been working my ass of while he sits at home playing xbox.

---

Government programs can be great but the populous abuses them. I lived in Toledo for 5 years in an okay neighborhood. Good people...not all. Our neighbors next door moved in, unmarried, with one kid. Our neighbors had them and us over one night. We asked if there are plans to get married. They said we do, but we are looking to have one more kid first so the government can pay for it. "Oh, you mean I pay for it."

Six houses down from us another couple moved in with a kid. This story came from my neighbor who befriended them due to their kids' age. They were on food stamps. The father finally got a job but the food stamps continued to come. They didn't say a word as they continued to collect.

Lots of money and resources are wasted due to this abusement which in turn straps the government that in turn causes more problems.

Works both ways. Not just poor people. If you don't think that other people abuse the system )writing off stuff that they shouldn't, hiding money overseas, etc. I don't know what to tell you. The loss of resources is just as glaring as the waste of resources. Also generally speaking people don't abuse government programs as much as people think.

ETA: some of the biggest abuses of Federal programs is by the rich such as doctors scamming Medicaid and Medicare.

 

[beryirish]

Works both ways. Not just poor people. If you don't think that other people abuse the system )writing off stuff that they shouldn't, hiding money overseas, etc. I don't know what to tell you. The loss of resources is just as glaring as the waste of resources. Also generally speaking people don't abuse government programs as much as people think.

I understand - i'm just giving my personal two examples of people abusing government programs. No matter the program, or class of people, they find a way to take advantage of it.

 

[Ndaccountant]

$200k in Burlington isn't much at all. Vermont is extremely expensive.

What is your argument here? That because she made a $200k severance that he's a hypocrite? When has he ever claimed that he thought it was bad for someone to make money? I think you are seeing the word "socialist" and trying to make an argument that isn't real. I'm sure he is totally accepting of paying any taxes associated with his wife's earnings.

Nope. Guess again.

It's that he consistently portrays himself as an outlier w/r/t wealth. It's true when comparing himself to other Washington elites. But that hardly makes him a common man either. His shtick of driving a 5 year old chevy is purely show and is doing it to make a point. He reports a net worth of ~$700K, but that doesn't include his real estate holdings in Vermont and DC, both expensive places. I have seen estimates that with the real estate, he is worth $1.2 to $1.5M. Again, not Washington elite, but that is more than 25X the wealth of the average middle class family. He and his wife combined make over $200K per year. He may not be a bush or clinton, but common man he is not.

 

[dales5050]

You are fucking kidding me right? With both parents working, and the cost of daycare (especially with both parents working 60 hours), no way. Daycare alone would screw them, let alone a place to live, food, transportation etc. Without children, sure it could work but add the average of 2 children in and you have pretty much sunk them.

ETA: Yes you get to deduct daycare on your taxes but that doesn't help them pay for it during the year.

I guess we have a fundamental disagreement that having children is not a right. It's a responsibility. Sorry but if you know you're going to be working minimum wage jobs or close to it...any if we're being honest these folks do by and large....you should not be having kids...let alone two.

But if you do have kids, that sure as hell is not anyone else's responsibility. I didn't sink them. They did it to themselves.


So here is the alternative. One parent stays home and the other works 12hrs a day 5 days a week and the other parent works 12hrs the other two days. That's $31,668 a year and $0.00 spent on daycare.

That is more than enough to live in the majority of the US. Unless now you're going to come back that in addition to the luxury of kids and a short work week...people should also be allowed to live wherever they want.....

 

[pkt77242]

I understand - i'm just giving my personal two examples of people abusing government programs. No matter the program, or class of people, they find a way to take advantage of it.

True but people act like Federal programs like SNAP are frequently abused. Truth is only about 3% or so of payments are over payments or paid to people who shouldn't have been eligible and some of that is honest mistakes. The truth is that a small amount of "fraud" is inevitable but many of the programs do a pretty good job of keeping that rate down. Dollar wise the overcharging of Medicaid/Medicare by some doctors and the military's inability to work out decent deals with defense contractors leads to more fraud and waste then many (if not all) of the programs that benefit the poor.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I guess we have a fundamental disagreement that having children is not a right. It's a responsibility. Sorry but if you know you're going to be working minimum wage jobs or close to it...any if we're being honest these folks do by and large....you should not be having kids...let alone two.

But if you do have kids, that sure as hell is not anyone else's responsibility. I didn't sink them. They did it to themselves.


So here is the alternative. One parent stays home and the other works 12hrs a day 5 days a week and the other parent works 12hrs the other two days. That's $31,668 a year and $0.00 spent on daycare.

That is more than enough to live in the majority of the US. Unless now you're going to come back that in addition to the luxury of kids and a short work week...people should also be allowed to live wherever they want.....

Ah the luck of the lottery. As if these innocent children had any say as to which family and social economic class they're born into. Rich kids - hey congrats, kid! Poor kids - better luck in the next life asshole. Give me a break. No one should ever turn their backs on child poverty and that's exactly what a lot of these programs are trying help...the kids.

You can do a lot worse than $30k but it's hardly enough to keep from struggling. See inflation, purchasing power posts above. It's not the same as it used to be. It's not that hard to comprehend. Throw in any kind of medical emergency and these people are likely sunk.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Nope. Guess again.

It's that he consistently portrays himself as an outlier w/r/t wealth. It's true when comparing himself to other Washington elites. But that hardly makes him a common man either. His shtick of driving a 5 year old chevy is purely show and is doing it to make a point. He reports a net worth of ~$700K, but that doesn't include his real estate holdings in Vermont and DC, both expensive places. I have seen estimates that with the real estate, he is worth $1.2 to $1.5M. Again, not Washington elite, but that is more than 25X the wealth of the average middle class family. He and his wife combined make over $200K per year. He may not be a bush or clinton, but common man he is not.

You think that is exceptional wealth or somehow distances him from understanding the common man? What does that mean about every other candidate?

You think his vehicle choice is a shtick? You act like he's rolling cash.

When I reach Bernie's age, I hope to be well past the $1.2 to 1.5m mark in total net worth or at least right at it. And I don't feel divorced from the common man or somehow above the issues we face as a nation.

I'm guessing you believe Pope Francis' living and transportation choices are also a schtick to improve Catholicism's world relations?

 

[pkt77242]

I guess we have a fundamental disagreement that having children is not a right. It's a responsibility. Sorry but if you know you're going to be working minimum wage jobs or close to it...any if we're being honest these folks do by and large....you should not be having kids...let alone two.

But if you do have kids, that sure as hell is not anyone else's responsibility. I didn't sink them. They did it to themselves.


So here is the alternative. One parent stays home and the other works 12hrs a day 5 days a week and the other parent works 12hrs the other two days. That's $31,668 a year and $0.00 spent on daycare.

That is more than enough to live in the majority of the US. Unless now you're going to come back that in addition to the luxury of kids and a short work week...people should also be allowed to live wherever they want.....

a few things.
1. If you want to make it so that 15% of our population can't have children or if they do have children they are screwed, well you had better bring in some immigrants to fill the population vacuum.

2. many minimum wage type jobs want you to work the schedule they tell you to work, not the one you choose, so your plan doesn't really work. Also you seem to be under the impression that minimum wage jobs are so easy. Have you worked in fast food? Have you worked many minimum wage jobs. The ones that I worked in HS (one summer at Taco Bell, and one in maintenance at my school) were my most physically difficult jobs. While I didn't have the stress or responsibility that I have now, I sure as Hell worked my ass off a those jobs and so did most of my coworkers. I am pretty glad to have my nice comfy chair and desk to work at now.

 

[wizards8507]

a few things.
1. If you want to make it so that 15% of our population can't have children or if they do have children they are screwed, well you had better bring in some immigrants to fill the population vacuum.

2. many minimum wage type jobs want you to work the schedule they tell you to work, not the one you choose, so your plan doesn't really work. Also you seem to be under the impression that minimum wage jobs are so easy. Have you worked in fast food? Have you worked many minimum wage jobs. The ones that I worked in HS (one summer at Taco Bell, and one in maintenance at my school) were my most physically difficult jobs. While I didn't have the stress or responsibility that I have now, I sure as Hell worked my ass off a those jobs and so did most of my coworkers. I am pretty glad to have my nice comfy chair and desk to work at now.

I worked in a McDonalds for four years, from junior year of high school through sophomore year of college. Most of the workers were dropouts and/or druggies. Anyone with half a brain was promoted within a few months, and many without half a brain were promoted anyways.

 

[Ndaccountant]

You think that is exceptional wealth or somehow distances him from understanding the common man? What does that mean about every other candidate?

You think his vehicle choice is a shtick? You act like he's rolling cash.

When I reach Bernie's age, I hope to be well past the $1.2 to 1.5m mark in total net worth or at least right at it. And I don't feel divorced from the common man or somehow above the issues we face as a nation.

I'm guessing you believe Pope Francis' living and transportation choices are also a schtick to improve Catholicism's world relations?

Good for you, I hope you succeed in your goals.

And if you succeed, at today's $'s, you would be 25X more wealthy than the average middle class family. Yes.....I think that does distance you from every other family.

BTW, he will get a pretty generous pension on top of his listed assets. So, he could live a life style much greater than the average american family without ever touching his assets.

 

[dales5050]

a few things.
1. If you want to make it so that 15% of our population can't have children or if they do have children they are screwed, well you had better bring in some immigrants to fill the population vacuum.

I never said they can't have kids. I did say it's their responsibility once they do.

I understand some people fall on hard times and unexpectedly find themselves working any job they can but that's not who you and I are talking about. We're talking about people who though a series of choices they made on their own found themselves with no skills, no education and two kids. Sorry, but that's not my freaking problem.

There are ways to work yourself out of the hole. It may mean that a couple might not see each other as often as they want or not have a vacation or something else...but again...that's not my problem.

I have no problem in programs that help people along, help them while they're down but I swear...the idea that people like you have in everyone should get everything they want is just ludicrous.

2. many minimum wage type jobs want you to work the schedule they tell you to work, not the one you choose, so your plan doesn't really work. Also you seem to be under the impression that minimum wage jobs are so easy. Have you worked in fast food? Have you worked many minimum wage jobs. The ones that I worked in HS (one summer at Taco Bell, and one in maintenance at my school) were my most physically difficult jobs. While I didn't have the stress or responsibility that I have now, I sure as Hell worked my ass off a those jobs and so did most of my coworkers. I am pretty glad to have my nice comfy chair and desk to work at now.

Yes. I worked fast food and other minimum wage jobs. I worked them when I was in school and after I started my career. The latter was to earn extra money for something I wanted.

My favorite was working at a Tim Hortons. I made coffee and sandwiches. When it was not busy, I had to dip and fill the donuts. It was super difficult work... /sarcasm.

While many minimum wage jobs don't allow you to have a flexible schedule, many minimum wage jobs do. And if you can't find one that does work for you...find another. Again, in my example there was always a parent home. So the other had the flexibility to work any number of positions.



Don't get me wrong and I am not trying to sound like a jerk but that's just an honest view.

 

[wizards8507]

Good for you, I hope you succeed in your goals.

And if you succeed, at today's $'s, you would be 25X more wealthy than the average middle class family. Yes.....I think that does distance you from every other family.

BTW, he will get a pretty generous pension on top of his listed assets. So, he could live a life style much greater than the average american family without ever touching his assets.

Not to mention the fact that he's been in politics for 45 years. When Veritate Duce Progredi retires, he will have been in the workforce producing goods or services that people want. Bernie Sanders has been a politician, and politicians produce nothing. You shouldn't get rich in a career as a civil servant.

 

[woolybug25]

Nope. Guess again.

It's that he consistently portrays himself as an outlier w/r/t wealth. It's true when comparing himself to other Washington elites. But that hardly makes him a common man either. His shtick of driving a 5 year old chevy is purely show and is doing it to make a point. He reports a net worth of ~$700K, but that doesn't include his real estate holdings in Vermont and DC, both expensive places. I have seen estimates that with the real estate, he is worth $1.2 to $1.5M. Again, not Washington elite, but that is more than 25X the wealth of the average middle class family. He and his wife combined make over $200K per year. He may not be a bush or clinton, but common man he is not.

So you feel like he's not a common man because he has built what every financial planner will tell you is appropriate for a retiree? The dude isn't a 35 year old father of two, he's at the age of retirement with appropriate savings for a person of his age. I really don't agree with the premise that you're trying to make here.

He has never claimed that he's poor or middle class. He has claimed that he isn't a Washington elite, which he certainly isn't. If you're going to bang on him for something, this is a really poor argument against him.

 

[Ndaccountant]

So you feel like he's not a common man because he has built what every financial planner will tell you is appropriate for a retiree? The dude isn't a 35 year old father of two, he's at the age of retirement with appropriate savings for a person of his age. I really don't agree with the premise that you're trying to make here.

He has never claimed that he's poor or middle class. He has claimed that he isn't a Washington elite, which he certainly isn't. If you're going to bang on him for something, this is a really poor argument against him.

That's fine. We can feel different. I think his shtick of being a common man is a false dichotomy. You don't. No biggie.

 

[IrishLax]

So you feel like he's not a common man because he has built what every financial planner will tell you is appropriate for a retiree? The dude isn't a 35 year old father of two, he's at the age of retirement with appropriate savings for a person of his age. I really don't agree with the premise that you're trying to make here.

He has never claimed that he's poor or middle class. He has claimed that he isn't a Washington elite, which he certainly isn't. If you're going to bang on him for something, this is a really poor argument against him.

Let's be serious though, he is the epitome of a career politician. So while he not be Washington "elite" (whatever that actually means) he's been a career politician effectively his entire life, and he/his family have profited significantly from it as he is not even close to "middle class"... and I don't think it's coincidence that his tax policy really starts kicking in for the people just above his millionaire level.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Let's be serious though, he is the epitome of a career politician.

Well a career politician is normally a pejorative and pretty interchangeable with "Washington Elite." He is not the epitome of the definition that usually fits what a career politician is.

So while he not be Washington "elite" (whatever that actually means) he's been a career politician effectively his entire life, and he/his family have profited significantly from it as he is not even close to "middle class"... and I don't think it's coincidence that his tax policy really starts kicking in for the people just above his millionaire level.

What do you mean? His annual income isn't that close to the millionaire level, that's his total worth. Am I missing something here?

 

[Buster Bluth]

Not to mention the fact that he's been in politics for 45 years. When Veritate Duce Progredi retires, he will have been in the workforce producing goods or services that people want. Bernie Sanders has been a politician, and politicians produce nothing. You shouldn't get rich in a career as a civil servant.

What do you call elections?

 

[pkt77242]

Not to mention the fact that he's been in politics for 45 years. When Veritate Duce Progredi retires, he will have been in the workforce producing goods or services that people want. Bernie Sanders has been a politician, and politicians produce nothing. You shouldn't get rich in a career as a civil servant.

How do you know that he got rich because of his career as a civil servant? Do you know how much his wife made?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Good for you, I hope you succeed in your goals.

And if you succeed, at today's $'s, you would be 25X more wealthy than the average middle class family. Yes.....I think that does distance you from every other family.

BTW, he will get a pretty generous pension on top of his listed assets. So, he could live a life style much greater than the average american family without ever touching his assets.

That's kind but you're eluding the question.

And the 25x more wealth is taking all middle class families into account, so those just beginning and those who have settled in that bracket near the end of retirement. It would be far better to compare him to those in his age group.

He's worked his whole life to attain that wealth and that makes him a bad socialist? When you say it "distances" Bernie (and me) from other families, what are you saying? I can no longer relate? What if my first 5 years of employment were below $40k? What if I grew up in a rural town with non-corporate parents? Am I still distanced because I don't live it every day? To relate, do I need to meet a certain threshold of non-success or lack of monetary savings?

That's fine. We can feel different. I think his shtick of being a common man is a false dichotomy. You don't. No biggie.

And how is it false again? Because I'm still not seeing it.

 

[kmoose]

How do you know that he got rich because of his career as a civil servant? Do you know how much his wife made?

Legally?

 

[dales5050]

Ah the luck of the lottery. As if these innocent children had any say as to which family and social economic class they're born into. Rich kids - hey congrats, kid! Poor kids - better luck in the next life asshole. Give me a break. No one should ever turn their backs on child poverty and that's exactly what a lot of these programs are trying help...the kids.

You can do a lot worse than $30k but it's hardly enough to keep from struggling. See inflation, purchasing power posts above. It's not the same as it used to be. It's not that hard to comprehend. Throw in any kind of medical emergency and these people are likely sunk.

Get out of here with this crap.

I am not saying innocent kids should starve but not everyone wins the lottery of life and there is always going to be someone with a better life than yours. Who knows, maybe if these kids see how difficult it is on Mom and Dad working so much they might pay attention in school so they don't have the same life? Just throwing out ideas....

I am all about helping people. I am all about a rising tide lifts all boats. But this insanity that people have a birthright to an easy life needs to stop.

If we as a society need to help put the food on the table for everyone, ensure health care for everyone and never turn our back on innocent kids....sign me up for that.

But you better damn well bring in some regulations that people still work. You better speak down to those who want to coast through life as much as you speak up for voiceless children. Because if you don't you have lost me.

 

[NDRock]

Not to mention the fact that he's been in politics for 45 years. When Veritate Duce Progredi retires, he will have been in the workforce producing goods or services that people want. Bernie Sanders has been a politician, and politicians produce nothing. You shouldn't get rich in a career as a civil servant.

That's an interesting outlook coming from a Dave Ramsey fan. I personally don't think a 74 year old man worth 1.2 million is that crazy. I knew you've heard people worth more than that, at younger age, who didn't make the salaries Sanders and his wife have made. Just because he was a civil servant doesn't mean he shouldn't invest his money and be comfortable at his age.

 

[IrishLax]

Well a career politician is normally a pejorative and pretty interchangeable with "Washington Elite." He is not the epitome of the definition that usually fits what a career politician is.

So your contention is that someone who has literally been a politician for their entire life is not a career politician?

What do you mean? His annual income isn't that close to the millionaire level, that's his total worth. Am I missing something here?

A millionaire is someone with a net worth greater than a million dollars. Self-explanatory, always been the literal definition of that term. This is not debatable or confusing.

To the second part, he has a salary of $175k/year... his proposed tax brackets tart escalating somewhere around $250k+ depending on which proposal you're looking at.

 

[Ndaccountant]

That's kind but you're eluding the question.

And the 25x more wealth is taking all middle class families into account, so those just beginning and those who have settled in that bracket near the end of retirement. It would be far better to compare him to those in his age group.

He's worked his whole life to attain that wealth and that makes him a bad socialist? When you say it "distances" Bernie (and me) from other families, what are you saying? I can no longer relate? What if my first 5 years of employment were below $40k? What if I grew up in a rural town with non-corporate parents? Am I still distanced because I don't live it every day? To relate, do I need to meet a certain threshold of non-success or lack of monetary savings?



And how is it false again? Because I'm still not seeing it.

So I feel like you and others are conflating retirement accounts and net worth, though they do move together. It's no secret that middle class net worth has ebbed and flowed with real estate prices. So, in the effort to keep things straight, let's limit this to retirement.

The assets Bernie gave were ~$700K in financial accounts. The remaining was real estate. Of course, he has a pension to draw on that is defined and indexed for inflation. If he retired today, I believe with 25 years of service he is somewhere around the 70% of salary mark. For argument sake, let's use that. That gives him $121K per year without drawing down his investment assets. Said differently, he can probably grow his assets in retirement instead of drawing down.

Linked in below is a report on retirement asset balances. As you can read there, the average near retirement asset balance in this country is a paltry $12K. By this measure, ole Bern is over 55X more wealthy than the average near retirement household.

If you can get to a $1.5M retirement asset balance, I applaud you. Good job. But you would be vastly different than the typical American household. I wish there would be more people like you. But the more you have saved, the more disconnected you are to the average household. I am not saying that is good or bad. It just is. Your problems will not be the same problems as the average household.

None of this makes you or Bern good or bad. I do think his act of (my words describing his actions) "I fly coach.....I drive a Chevy......I am just like you and I am not a Washington elite" is a farce. It is true he is different than a Clinton or Bush or Trump. But he IS NOT like the average working class American.

I believe he is genuinely pissed off at what happened in 2008 and he is hell bent on changing it. I applaud him for his enthusiasm. I also believe that he knows to make it work, he needs to have a populist following and to do so is to make everyone believe he is like them. He is not.

National Institute on Retirement - The Retirement Savings Crisis: Is It Worse Than We Think?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

So I feel like you and others are conflating retirement accounts and net worth, though they do move together. It's no secret that middle class net worth has ebbed and flowed with real estate prices. So, in the effort to keep things straight, let's limit this to retirement.

The assets Bernie gave were ~$700K in financial accounts. The remaining was real estate. Of course, he has a pension to draw on that is defined and indexed for inflation. If he retired today, I believe with 25 years of service he is somewhere around the 70% of salary mark. For argument sake, let's use that. That gives him $121K per year without drawing down his investment assets. Said differently, he can probably grow his assets in retirement instead of drawing down.

Linked in below is a report on retirement asset balances. As you can read there, the average near retirement asset balance in this country is a paltry $12K. By this measure, ole Bern is over 55X more wealthy than the average near retirement household.

If you can get to a $1.5M retirement asset balance, I applaud you. Good job. But you would be vastly different than the typical American household. I wish there would be more people like you. But the more you have saved, the more disconnected you are to the average household. I am not saying that is good or bad. It just is. Your problems will not be the same problems as the average household.

None of this makes you or Bern good or bad. I do think his act of (my words describing his actions) "I fly coach.....I drive a Chevy......I am just like you and I am not a Washington elite" is a farce. It is true he is different than a Clinton or Bush or Trump. But he IS NOT like the average working class American.

I believe he is genuinely pissed off at what happened in 2008 and he is hell bent on changing it. I applaud him for his enthusiasm. I also believe that he knows to make it work, he needs to have a populist following and to do so is to make everyone believe he is like them. He is not.

National Institute on Retirement - The Retirement Savings Crisis: Is It Worse Than We Think?

I think I understand your position better. If you don't minimize your bank account over your working career, then you are greatly divorced from the working man.

This means no one outside of that camp can understand them or truly feel what it's like to be them. So by instituting this logic, you've eliminated every candidate from contending for the "common man" title because Bernie was the closest thing we've ever seen, and his is a schtick, impressively devised and followed over the past 20-30 years.

So now he's just a bad capitalist and an average politician. This eliminates his strongest point of relation with the masses and does nothing to harm the other candidates because they all have much higher reported financial assets.

Smart move.


**note: your numbers used were smart by leaving the retirement accounts out of average households, this made the 55 number much more grabby than the 7. I'm guessing you left it out because the pension he receives is likely not included in his reported financial assets so other retirement accounts should be left out? How do you know some of his financial assets aren't in retirement accounts though? Perhaps old Bern knew a 401k, 457b, Roth or other vehicle was a smart way to stow money away, tax-deferred.

 

[ACamp1900]

So by instituting this logic, you've eliminated every candidate from contending for the "common man" title because Bernie was the closest thing we've ever seen,...

I'll wait for a deeper explanation on this....

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Election 2016: Who is the wealthiest presidential candidate (next to Donald Trump)? - CBS News

I'll wait for a deeper explanation on this....

Among the viable candidates, Bernie's worth is at the bottom when corrected for age. You could give Rubio that title but with an additional 20 years to add to his wealth, I'd say the odds are stacked in his favor of passing ol' Bern.

 

[ACamp1900]

you said that we've EVER seen.... I was caught up on that...

 

[Rizzophil]

National debt hit 19 trillion

All of the other social issues are just a side show


It didn't help that Obama proposed a 4trillion spending plan. Wtf. Plus, giving away $750 million in obamacare subsides to non residents doesn't help