'16 CA LB Caleb Kelly (Oklahoma Verbal)

[MNIrishman]

Best of luck to Caleb, and he obviously didn't anything wrong, but I'm not as impressed with these kids "processes" as some other people.

First of all, going to the exact last minute doesn't sound like much of a plan to me. It's funny how everyone but the elite kids manage to make up their minds faster. The elite kids have leverage, and use it, but to what end? They all end up at the same schools anyway. What do they really "know" at the end of the process that they didn't 4 months earlier? I bet they pick "wrong" as often as they pick "right."

And while I don't think there is anything morally wrong about hat pick ceremonies, last minute NSD ceremonies are self-agrandizing and they can force your second place school--one you apparently like--left with a hole in its roster. Not sure why that is so great. If possible, make up your mind and let people know. Have your ceremony, but its not some federal secret. Its not important at all. That's why Eddie Vanderpants gets no sympathy from me. Oh your NSD surprise got ruined... wah, wah...big deal, lots of people have real problems.

Also, if you pick the school sooner, you become part of the sales team and can help attract other kids.

Secondly, letting totally artifical relationships with men who are trying to sell you something dictate a decision is about as arbitrary as it gets, IMO. After a certain point, you aren't adding new "information," except in the loosest sense of the word. The man who is selling to you (Tony Alford, Mike Sanford) has a real life and has to take the right job if it comes along.

Once again, best of luck to CK, but I'm not goign to go so far as to pretend he did anything that separated him from your typical nice teenage kid.



No one sees themselves as a statistic. CK looks around the Sooner locker room and asks himself, "Am I in the top 50%, or the bottom 50% of this class?" Kids like CK are not the one's who fail out, so that statistic doesn't mean much to him.

The statistic is really only useful to kids who may not cut it in college. The Gronkowski's of the world. For ND, its useful to show that most kids who are let in do great.

Someone along the line should have mentioned that graduation rate isn't really a measure of the average player's intelligence so much as it is:
1) Academic support for athletes
2) Coaches who actually care about the whole you instead of just what you can do on the field.
3) A football program that connects well with the academic life of the university.

A university that doesn't graduate its players isn't fulfilling its end of the student-athlete bargain. Since it CAN do that, and chooses not to, it's a pretty big indicator that OU just views players as pieces of meat to be used for revenue.

 

[Irish#1]

If simply getting the degree was important, he blew that big time. Oklahoma had a 47% football graduation rate for the last year I saw numbers reported. I hope being buddy buddy with Big Game Bob makes up for the fact that OU is basically toying with its players' futures. It was an objectively bad decision, one so horrifically wrong-headed that someone who makes it probably belongs at Oklahoma.

You missed the point. OU rates may be dismal, but it doesn't mean he will be part of that. It appears he is one of those kids who wants a degree, so he will probably apply himself while he's there as opposed to those who come primarily to play football. The 53% that don't make it probably need the tutoring and support system and that's where Stoops fails.

 

[stlnd01]

.

A university that doesn't graduate its players isn't fulfilling its end of the student-athlete bargain. Since it CAN do that, and chooses not to, it's a pretty big indicator that OU just views players as pieces of meat to be used for revenue.

Which still does not preclude someone like Caleb Kelly from getting a very good education there.

I do think it's fair to say a football player is more likely to get a good education at one of the handful of major programs that takes educating student-athletes seriously. But I also think a lot of these kids see themselves as exceptional (for good reason) and likely to perform above the curve on academics if that's what they want to do. And sometimes that's exactly what happens. Notre Dame and Stanford do not have a lock on producing smart young men who also play football.

 

[MNIrishman]

Which still does not preclude someone like Caleb Kelly from getting a very good education there.

I do think it's fair to say a football player is more likely to get a good education at one of the handful of major programs that takes educating student-athletes seriously. But I also think a lot of these kids see themselves as exceptional (for good reason) and likely to perform above the curve on academics if that's what they want to do. And sometimes that's exactly what happens. Notre Dame and Stanford do not have a lock on producing smart young men who also play football.

A graduation rate that is a little less than the university average would indicate that the support system was lacking, but the massive differential exhibited by the OU football program would seem to imply that the football program not only doesn't provide a leg up to its athletes, but is actively detrimental to their academic success.

 

[pkt77242]

A graduation rate that is a little less than the university average would indicate that the support system was lacking, but the massive differential exhibited by the OU football program would seem to imply that the football program not only doesn't provide a leg up to its athletes, but is actively detrimental to their academic success.

Or it could mean that many athletes who go to Oklahoma don't care about school. A school can only do so much to help them if they don't want the education.

 

[MNIrishman]

Or it could mean that many athletes who go to Oklahoma don't care about school. A school can only do so much to help them if they don't want the education.

Ugh, we seriously need a football minor league. The phenomenon of kids attending college who have no desire to "play school" is a plague on collegiate athletics. I really have no problem if someone wants to "go pro" when they're 18. There's no reason why they should be forced to go to college to continue their sport. The problem is that schools like OU embrace this idea and use it to win the recruiting game while athletes (and subsequently schools that do things the right way like ND) suffer.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I think the elite kids have many more considerations than the other players.

The elite kids are supposed to contribute Day 1, so they need to look at depth charts. A lot of that does not shake out until after the bowl games in Jan. The elite kids also have more options and may look to see who gets the best class, which in turn puts them on the better team for their time.

But really, I think it boils down to the elite kids get absolutely pummeled with recruiting. They have hundreds to thousands bits of correspondence. From letters to text messages to calls to in home visits with coaches. On the visits with coaches, many the coaches try to schedule as late in the process as possible to try and get the last word.


Of course, many times it's just kids and their family wanting to milk the process as much as possible. But with all of the effort they have to put in to get to that point...I say let them enjoy the moment.

Good pooints! You could also argue they have less. They are most likely to play one way or another. On the flip side, they have more at stake with football, since going professional is a real
possibility.

But my main point is that they don't end up making any differnt decision for going through the process. The information changes, because other people commit and de-comitt (maybe sometimes because of you). Roster spots open and close. Coaches come and go after signing day. And in the end its comes down to Alabama and Clemson and you choose one. Wow. Did they really choose better than, say, Jaylon Smith, for having waited? I tend to doubt it.

Or it could mean that many athletes who go to Oklahoma don't care about school. A school can only do so much to help them if they don't want the education.

I think for the most part, the football factories provide the minimum necessary to keep the kids in school and not distract form football. If you want more, go for it (as long as it doesn't interfere with football)!

I tend to not think education is the reason to go to ND or Stanford or Duke or NW, but your peer group. People walk and talk like thier friends, so surround yourself with good people.

 

[dales5050]

But my main point is that they don't end up making any differnt decision for going through the process. The information changes, because other people commit and de-comitt (maybe sometimes because of you). Roster spots open and close. Coaches come and go after signing day. And in the end its comes down to Alabama and Clemson and you choose one. Wow. Did they really choose better than, say, Jaylon Smith, for having waited? I tend to doubt it.

Sorry but I disagree.

For example, while coaches do come and go after signing day, a player getting along with their position or head coach is important. So while some schools wait until the ink dries to make the announcement of a coach leaving...you can bet players and their parents are trying to sniff out the potential change all the way up to LOI day. It's why rumors of a coach leaving are such a big deal.

It does come down to at the end of the day 'picking a hat' but I think you're trying to dismiss too much in the process up to that point.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Sorry but I disagree.

For example, while coaches do come and go after signing day, a player getting along with their position or head coach is important. So while some schools wait until the ink dries to make the announcement of a coach leaving...you can bet players and their parents are trying to sniff out the potential change all the way up to LOI day. It's why rumors of a coach leaving are such a big deal.

It does come down to at the end of the day 'picking a hat' but I think you're trying to dismiss too much in the process up to that point.

Great, but the coach might leave after your freshman year. And now you are being coached by a guy you've never met. Position coaches are important, but things change.

My point isn't that its a coin toss, it's that you have all the reliable info you need after a much shorter timeframe. I think you have to get comfortable with the big picture, and not pretend you have more control than you do.

 

[dales5050]

Great, but the coach might leave after your freshman year. And now you are being coached by a guy you've never met. Position coaches are important, but things change.

Things change...sometimes. But just because things change does not mean you should give up on trying to mitigate your exposure to change you don't want.

My point isn't that its a coin toss, it's that you have all the reliable info you need after a much shorter timeframe. I think you have to get comfortable with the big picture, and not pretend you have more control than you do.

I am not sure I buy a shorter timeframe. We're talking about the difference of a couple of months.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a kid to want to wait until after their Sr season to really dig in to the process. Say that's Nov 1. LOI is Feb 3.

So a 4 month window is not a big deal.

Agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think the 'elite' prospects believe they will play in the NFL with certainty. With anyone that is in that boat, the 40 Year Decision may not resonate, or resonate as loudly.

Because this thing is never about academics. Not for but a handful of recruits, the last one I remember that made a recruiting degree on a specific program because of something they offered, that no one else did, that was in total sync with an after football career, is Wayne Lyons, picking Stanford. There are other schools that may offer a specific degree, or have some other advantage that levels off the academics in their mind.

Unfortunately those kids with the best chance of playing after college need the following information more than anybody. The average NFL career is 3.6 years. Chance of a significant injury or career ending injury is above 90%.
3 out of 5 NFL player declare bankruptcy after their on field careers are over.

(I reserve the right to post these as estimates to prove a point. They may not be exact, but they are close enough to make a very scary point.)

Any one who wants to pursue as dangerous of a career as playing in the NFL really needs a program with what Notre Dame offers; they have a greater need than anyone but the players that ride the bench through college!

So forget about football powerhouses; ND is and has been one.

Forget about preparing for the NFL; ND could have five first and second round draftees this year.

And forget about academics; you can be okay with any of the top 50 schools as long as they have the right academic program and major.

Notre Dame excels in my opinion above every other school in the nation as far as value of degree, and network of alums. See it isn't classroom curriculum, its what else they teach you, and how they develop you as a person!

An aside : I got a laugh. One of the assistants in explaining the four years for forty asked a recruit, "What do you want to do, go to Florida and chase girls for four years, or go to ND for four years and have girls chase you for forty!"

 

[stlnd01]

Honestly, I've got no problem with 18 year-olds taking their time making the biggest decision of their lives.

 

[IrishFanForever23]

Loy dropped some "juice" today on behind the scenes information from the recruiting process. Does anyone know what that was and especially pertaining to Caleb?

 

[Domina Nostra]

Honestly, I've got no problem with 18 year-olds taking their time making the biggest decision of their lives.

Do you have a problem with them being forced to make it on NSD?

 

[irishff1014]

Loy dropped some "juice" today on behind the scenes information from the recruiting process. Does anyone know what that was and especially pertaining to Caleb?

Kelly told loy he was coming to ND then had another visit with stoops it was over from that point forward.

 

[FWIrish4]

Kelly told loy he was coming to ND then had another visit with stoops it was over from that point forward.

I was under the impression Coach Kelly had the last in home with him and Stoops used his early. Was this not the case then?

 

[irishff1014]

I was under the impression Coach Kelly had the last in home with him and Stoops used his early. Was this not the case then?

Mike Stoops

 

[FWIrish4]

Mike Stoops

Thank you haha. Completely forgot about him. What did he provide though to completely change the dynamic of him going to ND?

 

[irishff1014]

It says that he felt the most comfortable at OU and felt that he would regret no signing with the sooners. He wanted to play for the Stoops.

 

[stlnd01]

Do you have a problem with them being forced to make it on NSD?

They're not "forced" to do it on NSD either. (see Demetris Robinson's thread).
I understand why coaches want to get a class locked up, and why many recruits want to get the process over with, or feel like they're comfortable making a decision. And for practical reasons it can't all drag on forever.
But this idea that they should review all the available information and make up their damn mind already prioritizes the program - and frankly its fans - over the player. But it's their life. And this is the one point in the whole process where they have any real leverage.

 

[GBdomer]

Basically committed to ND and started recruiting Jordan fuller and then went in home with stoops and it was over.

 

[Domina Nostra]

They're not "forced" to do it on NSD either. (see Demetris Robinson's thread).
I understand why coaches want to get a class locked up, and why many recruits want to get the process over with, or feel like they're comfortable making a decision. And for practical reasons it can't all drag on forever.
But this idea that they should review all the available information and make up their damn mind already prioritizes the program - and frankly its fans - over the player. But it's their life. And this is the one point in the whole process where they have any real leverage.

Except when they don't. It sounds like good advice, but spots fill, relationships sour, prospects who could have been teammates move in different directions, etc. Some kids get screwed by waiting.

There are only a handfull that can string it out, and how does their leverage change? They are allowed to accept one thing, a scholarship. Nothing else. If they are offered a scholarhsip, they can except it or reject it.

I am not saying that kids shouldn't have the time they need, I'm saying they don't actually need until exacltly NSD. They take that long because that's how long they have (or think they have), not because they are following some thoughful process. What they get a lot more of then the earlier committments is grown men calling them at all hours, sending them boxes of mail, and parking trucks outside their school.

Personally, I don't think it a coincidence that the smartest kids on the team QBs and OLmen, commit first.

 

[NDVirginia19]

Why is this thread still going on? Can we stop being masochists and move on?

 

[NDinL.A.]

Why is this thread still going on? Can we stop being masochists and move on?

Posts like yours also keep it going. It's pretty easy to just not open it since you know he's not coming to ND and aren't interested.

The question should be, are you, Lightning, able move on? Are you ready to act like Elsa and Let It Go?

 

[IrishLion]

I just wish everyone would stop arguing about the academics thing, because that played no part in his final decision lol.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I'm dumb so maybe someone can explain in simple terms. How does a program have enough players if the grad rate is under 50%. They just keep em on team till end of sr yr then are like thx no degree. Don't u have to be passing to play tho?

 

[GATTACA!]

It's kind of embarrassing that this thread is still on the front page. The kid didn't pick ND, end of story.

 

[GBdomer]

https://oklahoma.n.rivals.com/news/kelly-i-was-going-to-notre-dame

this has my jimmies rustled

 

[GATTACA!]

https://oklahoma.n.rivals.com/news/kelly-i-was-going-to-notre-dame

this has my jimmies rustled

Nothing like a family member standing in the way of your education.

 

[aubeirish]

So the question is Koon. Would you take 1 more year of Jaylon or 0 of Kelly?