'16 CA LB Caleb Kelly (Oklahoma Verbal)

[IrishFanJMercy]

I think part of the reason he didn't come here was due to the fact Joe Schmidt. OU coaches most likely hammered this saying why go there when they played a walk on who missed 25 percent of their tackles over the highly recruit and play Macker Nyles Morgan

 

[IrishLax]

I think part of the reason he didn't come here was due to the fact Joe Schmidt. OU coaches most likely hammered this saying why go there when they played a walk on who missed 25 percent of their tackles over the highly recruit and play Macker Nyles Morgan

Please stop about Schmidt vs Morgan. Do people seriously not realize that Morgan probably sucks? Or at least wasn't close to ready last year? You can blame BVG/Elston for his development... but the bottom line is that Morgan has gotten some reps at MIKE in his two seasons... and he's been really, really bad. Not just objectively, but also relatively to his classmate Greer Martini when Martin was given reps at MIKE last year in Morgan's place.

 

[greyhammer90]

I think part of the reason he didn't come here was due to the fact Joe Schmidt. OU coaches most likely hammered this saying why go there when they played a walk on who missed 25 percent of their tackles over the highly recruit and play Macker Nyles Morgan

 

[kmoose]

What I don't understand about these Fresno kids and Oklahoma is if you are going to choose a lesser degree, graduation rate, etc, why one so far away from home? Do they plan on living in OK after college? I can't imagine a OU degree holding much weight back in Cali vs the UCLA, USC, Cal Berks of the employee base.

Maybe Oklahoma pays better....

 

[dad4aa]

So why is it when we have a recruit looking at Stanford everyone is quick to talk about how the degree is better than Notre Dame and everyone excepts that, but when we talk about Notre Dame's degree being better than Oklahoma or other schools, people are quick to say "you can get a good degree from any school if you just put the work in".
Stanford degree > Notre Dame >>> Oklahoma.

 

[House16]

I think it makes a difference, but not as much as you are implying. You CAN get a degree from a Big 12 school or Big 10 school for example and still do very well for yourself. Plus who knows what he wanted to major in, maybe it wasn't offered at ND. If I was 5 star recruit who wanted to study Aeronautical Engineering, I'd sure as heck consider Purdue pretty seriously. Believe it or not, other schools besides ND can still give you a good education and help you set yourself up for success. Averages are just that, averages. Doesn't mean everyone is going to fall exactly on it, some may do worse, yet others may do better.

Bottom line, who gives a fuck? Why does an 18yr old's college choice who none of us know have to dampen our lives to any great extent? Life's too short and there's much more important stuff other than that to dwell on.

Comparing OU to Purdue is just crazy. Big 10 in general has excellent academics (even to rival the ACC). Big 12, not so much at all outside of UT, and maybe ISU and Baylor.

 

[IrishLax]

So why is it when we have a recruit looking at Stanford everyone is quick to talk about how the degree is better than Notre Dame and everyone excepts that, but when we talk about Notre Dame's degree being better than Oklahoma or other schools, people are quick to say "you can get a good degree from any school if you just put the work in".
Stanford degree > Notre Dame >>> Oklahoma.

Yeah, honestly, this crap is getting annoying. We're talking about a 4th tier state school with a 50% graduation rate and people run around all "but you can get a good education!"

No shit. Matt Damon explained that concept to everyone quite eloquently in Good Will Hunting.

But under the assumption that cost isn't a factor, it's completely laughable BS for anyone who "cares about academics" to go to a place like Oklahoma. The educations are not the same, the opportunities are not the same, and the networking/peer group is not the same.

 

[mtnd15]

Ya on the Joe Schmidt thing, it is very telling that Nyles was also behind Martini, Grace, AND Coney. Clearly this is not a Nyles Morgan is a superstar if only BVG didn't have a man crush on Joe Schmidt situation.

 

[greyhammer90]

Yeah, honestly, this crap is getting annoying. We're talking about a 4th tier state school with a 50% graduation rate and people run around all "but you can get a good education!"

No shit. Matt Damon explained that concept to everyone quite eloquently in Good Will Hunting.

But under the assumption that cost isn't a factor, it's completely laughable BS for anyone who "cares about academics" to go to a place like Oklahoma. The educations are not the same, the opportunities are not the same, and the networking/peer group is not the same.

The sad thing to me about that is that the older I get, the more I realize that these kids really don't get it. It's like a chemical thing. You can sit down with them and explain all this shit, you can show them the statistics and the lies and the ways that a place like ND or Stanford is a win-win football/academics situation with almost zero calculable risk, and that kid won't understand you. He can't understand you. And this isn't some generational "I was different" bullsh*t. It's just how kids are and always have been. They've got their own personal fable going, and none of this bad stuff that anyone ever talks about can happen to them.

 

[T Town Tommy]

The thing for me is this: why is OU only graduating 50% of their players? It can't be that the players they are recruiting are suspect academically any more than countless other schools. Wonder what kind of support program they have in place for academics and what kind of oversight they have in place. Seems that is where the athletic program may be failing their players. Don't know but would be interested to see if anyone else has any insight.

 

[Classic Irish]

Yeah, honestly, this crap is getting annoying. We're talking about a 4th tier state school with a 50% graduation rate and people run around all "but you can get a good education!"

No shit. Matt Damon explained that concept to everyone quite eloquently in Good Will Hunting.

But under the assumption that cost isn't a factor, it's completely laughable BS for anyone who "cares about academics" to go to a place like Oklahoma. The educations are not the same, the opportunities are not the same, and the networking/peer group is not the same.

^^This times 1,000.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Purely academic OK and ND are not even close. ND is a premier academic institution, while OK is not, especially for football players.

But, on a football side. Right now OK is a far better than us. As a ND Alum and fan, it is hard for me to say that. But, the proof is in the stats. And he chose the better football program certainly not the better academic school.

Last 13 years we have beat OK in 2 times in the rankings. They have beat us every other time. In that time they have had 2 heisman trophies and we have zero.

So, arguing football--really hard. I despise OK, but the stats say they are far better than us. Sickening. But, true.

Recruiting against power football schools we can only sell academics, because they have better football programs results than us. We have to sell academics and networking, and teaming it with a good football program is the only thing we can do. Because, we have zero championships since 1988, and the 1 championship we got in we got obliterated. We are going in the right direction. But, we are behind the 8-ball in many ways over Alabama, LSU, OK, FSU, Florida, USC, OSU, Auburn, Texas, Miami, Tennessee, Michigan, Nebraska all have won National Championships while we have not. Recruits see this, that combined with academic load we have here it is a tough sell to the highest of high recruits.

Saying all that, we are going in the right direction. We have a great coach and super talented athletes. We have a great shot at getting back to the promised land. But, we are at a disadvantage against other schools. Academics and history of not being a top rated football team in many, many of the past years. But, we can't rip kids for not choosing what we think is the best place to be. Other programs are better than us right now, or have a much better history during these kids lifetime.

 

[irishff1014]

The sad thing to me about that is that the older I get, the more I realize that these kids really don't get it. It's like a chemical thing. You can sit down with them and explain all this shit, you can show them the statistics and the lies and the ways that a place like ND or Stanford is a win-win football/academics situation with almost zero calculable risk, and that kid won't understand you. He can't understand you. And this isn't some generational "I was different" bullsh*t. It's just how kids are and always have been. They've got their own personal fable going, and none of this bad stuff that anyone ever talks about can happen to them.

It goes further then just college football. Kids today don't have to work for anything anymore. So when a college is recruiting them the want to do the bare min. so they can play. 2/3 of kids playing college football don't give a shit about academics.

 

[greyhammer90]

Kids today don't have to work for anything anymore.

 

[koonja]

Every recruit says academics matter. 98% of them don't give two fucks about academics. That is the reality.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

koonja, you are correct. When they choose a school like OK or LSU over ND, Stanford, Vandy, or Northwestern that is 100% true.

 

[IrishLax]

Purely academic OK and ND are not even close. ND is a premier academic institution, while OK is not, especially for football players.

But, on a football side. Right now OK is a far better than us. As a ND Alum and fan, it is hard for me to say that. But, the proof is in the stats. And he chose the better football program certainly not the better academic school.

Last 13 years we have beat OK in 2 times in the rankings. They have beat us every other time. In that time they have had 2 heisman trophies and we have zero.

Apologies in advance for any of this that is snarky. But they won 11 games, we won 10. They got blown out by Clemson on a neutral site, we lost to Clemson on the road by 2 on the last play of the game. They got beat by Texas, we destroyed Texas by 5 TDs. To say they're "clearly much better than us right now" just doesn't make sense.

I also don't know that picking a 13 year timeframe that includes Ty and Chuck is relevant at all. If you look at the last four years... i.e. the last full class to come through each school... Oklahoma is 10-3, 11-2, 8-5, 11-2... ND is 12-1, 9-4, 8-5, 10-3... so Oklahoma is grand total of 1 game better over a four year span, and they're also 1-1 head-to-head against ND.

I think you'll have a hard time convincing anyone who is not an Oklahoma fan that they're "much better" than ND right now with these current players and these current coaches.

Recruiting against power football schools we can only sell academics, because they have better football programs results than us. We have to sell academics and networking, and teaming it with a good football program is the only thing we can do. Because, we have zero championships since 1988, and the 1 championship we got in we got obliterated. We are going in the right direction. But, we are behind the 8-ball in many ways over Alabama, LSU, OK, FSU, Florida, USC, OSU, Auburn, Texas, Miami, Tennessee, Michigan, Nebraska all have won National Championships while we have not. Recruits see this, that combined with academic load we have here it is a tough sell to the highest of high recruits.

Saying all that, we are going in the right direction. We have a great coach and super talented athletes. We have a great shot at getting back to the promised land. But, we are at a disadvantage against other schools. Academics and history of not being a top rated football team in many, many of the past years. But, we can't rip kids for not choosing what we think is the best place to be. Other programs are better than us right now, or have a much better history during these kids lifetime.

Curious, do you watch Oklahoma football at all? Because they've gotten obliterated just as badly as ND the last couple times they've been in national championship type games.

The truth is, nobody cares about the "championships" of half those teams you listed, because if it isn't within the past decade it's not relevant to any of these kids. Nobody cares that Michigan won half a championship in '93 and hasn't won an outright title since the WWII era. Likewise, nobody cares that Oregon has NEVER won a championship... they see them competing at a high level in their lifetimes and that's all that matters.

Unless you are Alabama, FSU, Ohio State, or Auburn you have a very tough time selling a "recent championship." Hell, Florida won VERY recently and they're a full two coaching staffs removed from those days. What kids care about is what you're doing on the field right now, with your current coaching staff. If you can sell that success... or the success of newly hired coaches... then you're going to be effective. If you can't, then you're not. It's that simple.

 

[NDPhilly]

"Academics have always been very important to me..."
"I've been a straight A student throughout school..."

Commits to a state school with a 81% acceptance rate.

I dont know why I still follow recruiting.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Irishlax, good points just don't totally agree. If you don't think rankings are important, you are crazy. They look at the track record during their time in school. Look back further, but 13 years is a pretty good sample size. They have been ranked ahead of us in 11 of 13. That is 11 of 13. Yes 1 to 1 head to head and we both have been blasted in the big time games.

Needless to say, during kids coming out right now---OK is better than us for bascially the last 13 years. Think what you want, so many fans have Shamrock tinted glasses on. Kids want success or good teams close to home. Right now, OK is a better program than us. They got slammed by Clemson and we lost by 2, but they were in the playoff and we were not. And we got beat down by OSU in our non playoff game too. We were the far less team against OSU.

We can go round and round. But, the stats for a kid picking OK over us is that they have been better for basically 13 years over us. They have a stud heisman finalist leading them, we have a QB controversy. Right now they are better. You can believe what you want. The proof is what it is. They were in the playoff we were not. I am not saying we can't get there and be a top team, but kids do want successful programs to go to. And if they are easier on the academics they will beat us out most of the time. We have to be a better program to draw more. And Coach K is doing that. I firmly believe we will get there under him. But, I had people bashing kids for picking a more successful program. Or one that is equal (or close to) and easier academically it is very hard to beat.

Now, we look to be better with LB's getting the Butkus Award. We have 2 during that time and they have 1.

We can keep going around and around, but I just don't want to bash kids when they don't pick us. We have some things against us before we walk in a recruits door against other major programs, we just have to overcome that with creative recruiting. And they seem to be doing it. Sell the 40 year result--good football and academics. etc. But, BVG maybe a detrement to us too, not sure--but maybe.

Good debate. The one thing I truly believe, we are going in the right direction.

Go Irish

 

[ThePiombino]

"Academics have always been very important to me..."
"I've been a straight A student throughout school..."

Commits to a state school with a 81% acceptance rate.

I dont know why I still follow recruiting.

Nothing wrong with following recruiting, but listening to these kids talk about how important academics are and BELIEVING they mean it is where you, I, and most others go wrong.

 

[BobbyMac]

Nothing wrong with following recruiting, but listening to these kids talk about how important academics are and BELIEVING they mean it is where you, I, and most others go wrong.

That's the problem with good kids from crappy public schools. They think because they have a 3.3 at said school, that they are a serious student. They have no idea what competition in a Top 20 college classroom is like. They might as well be lined up against the '85 Bears.

 

[NDRock]

It goes further then just college football. Kids today don't have to work for anything anymore. So when a college is recruiting them the want to do the bare min. so they can play. 2/3 of kids playing college football don't give a shit about academics.

Almost all of your posts come off as coming from some old man yelling at the kids for being on his grass. Do you have kids? Do you know people with kids? I do and guess what? They still have to work and work hard if they want to succeed. You still a firefighter? If so how much time do you spend bitching about the new guys and how lazy they are?

 

[irishff1014]

I do have to young kids. We don't have much of that problem around our firehouse. Knock on Wood.

 

[rocket66]

I think you hear kids who have ND as a finalist preach academics more just simply because our staffs beat it into their heads. The problem is that other staffs come in and persuade them that their school also has great academics and win out in the end. It comes down to closing the deal at then end, and we suffer miserably at this as NSD approaches every year with the elite guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rtrn2glory]

will be nice one day when we can just use the old cliché that was used back in the day....come to ND and you will win championships and go to the league....and oh by the way have a world class degree.

right now we're having to sell that the other way around b/c ND isn't on top like it used to be, which will hopefully change soon.

if our program was on urban's and saban's level we'd get any recruit we want.

 

[Irish#1]

Good luck Caleb.

I think you guys are reaching too hard if you're going to start the whole "if he really cared about academics..." thing up.

From the young man's own comments, it truly seems like his relationships with OU were too much for ND to overcome, even with the [excellent] late push put on by the ND staff. He just discovered the joys of ND a bit too late, and never got comfortable enough to pull the trigger for the Irish. Can't fault him for that.

What you said is probably the reason.

Good luck Caleb.

ND will survive.

 

[dang227]

Keith Arnold tweeted this from a 247 article:

 

[irishff1014]

Keith Arnold tweeted this from a 247 article:

And He couldn't do that at ND?

 

[MNIrishman]

Regarding the earlier Stanford comments: Stanford is objectively better than ND only in graduate school/research (which is mostly where prestige comes from, though we're pretty unique in that we've been able to become prestigious nationally without so much research). We're extremely comparable for undergraduate education, and that goes double for black athletes. Oklahoma, on the other hand, doesn't educate athletes so much as it uses them for money before dumping them on the street. You want your argument for paying athletes? Oklahoma is it---they aren't really offering anything else.

 

[NDPhilly]

Keith Arnold tweeted this from a 247 article:

Stoops: "unlike Notre dame, our kids are all kinds of fucked up. Come be a leader"

Seriously tho he must have said something to that effect. Maybe like "At OU a person like you can be a leader and not just another football player"