Red Zone Offense

[dublinirish]

With Kizer being a huge kid, can we get back to the automatic QB keeper we had with Brady Quinn? Short yardage was automatic with Brady, center and QB were all that needed to get it right and we could get a yard any day of the week.

This O-Line has big time depth, I agree with the idea of giving some back-ups some snaps in the red zone. Let them take on the identity of run maulers with pride. Every other unit has "packages" to maximize the team talent, why not the O-Line?

C-Mart simply isn't a physical centre. His skillset is to be mobile and pull on outside runs. He's never gonna be a guy you run behind in short yardage especially when he's manned up against a nose tackle 1 on 1

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Maybe Wimbush would excel with a redzone package.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

With Kizer being a huge kid, can we get back to the automatic QB keeper we had with Brady Quinn? Short yardage was automatic with Brady, center and QB were all that needed to get it right and we could get a yard any day of the week.

This O-Line has big time depth, I agree with the idea of giving some back-ups some snaps in the red zone. Let them take on the identity of run maulers with pride. Every other unit has "packages" to maximize the team talent, why not the O-Line?

Right. I mean Elmer and Martin do not get a push. They've been blown up a lot during run plays in the red zone. You had Alex Bars at your disposal (although he's out now). Why not utilize McGovern, Mustipher, and Montelus (aren't they supposedly "maulers")? The TEs aren't doing great blocking, so why not bring in an extra OL and move Tyler into the Hback role. Alize and CRob out wide. If Kizer and CJ can't get into the endzone with that kind of package, I don't know who can. And if the defense loads the box and sells out on the run, use the play-action to throw to a wide open WR that will be 6" taller than the nearest DB.

And if that doesn't work, at least they tried something new and gave the defense something to think about.

The problem I have is that it seems nothing is being done to correct the issue. It's a problem game-after-game, season-after-season.

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a>’s red zone TD % ranks the past six seasons:

2015- 85th
2014- 45th
2013- 100th
2012- 112th
2011- 28th
2010- 87th</p>— Andrew Owens (@BGI_AndrewOwens) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_AndrewOwens/status/661628078070730752">November 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ulukinatme]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a>’s red zone TD % ranks the past six seasons:

2015- 85th
2014- 45th
2013- 100th
2012- 112th
2011- 28th
2010- 87th</p>— Andrew Owens (@BGI_AndrewOwens) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_AndrewOwens/status/661628078070730752">November 3, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow, those are very different numbers than were posted in the first post. I'm guessing the difference is between the percentage of TDs scored in the red zone and the actual red zone scoring:

2010 - 51st
2011 - 82nd
2012 - 67th
2013 - 69th
2014 - 78th
2015 - 98th

 

[NDRock]

Wow, those are very different numbers than were posted in the first post. I'm guessing the difference is between the percentage of TDs scored in the red zone and the actual red zone scoring:

2010 - 51st
2011 - 82nd
2012 - 67th
2013 - 69th
2014 - 78th
2015 - 98th

It was, OP was overall scoring percentage not just TD %.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Wow, those are very different numbers than were posted in the first post. I'm guessing the difference is between the percentage of TDs scored in the red zone and the actual red zone scoring.

It was, OP was overall scoring percentage not just TD %.

Correct. OP is Scoring% (ND currently sits at #99). That tweet is TD% (currently #85). FYI they're #81 in FG%.

ND gets to the Red Zone, on average, 4.1 times per game this season. On pace for 53 trips. For the record, the upper echelon of offenses are 60+. 2014 Oregon got to the Red Zone 80 times (5.3 per game). 2014 National Champ OSU got there 74 times (4.9 per game). *Note: The "per game" is more important because ND played 13 games and Oregon/OSU played 15 games.

Now, lets not leave out that ND is a Top 25 team in ppg (offensive scoring). The big play ability outside of the redzone is the source. BUT this team should be averaging closer to 40 ppg (or more) if they converted more TD in the red zone. A 57% TD-conversion rate is pathetic. The better teams are 70% and higher. A 70% TD-conversion rate for ND this year would equate to 4 more TDs and it would drive their average ppg to 40 (which is closer to where we'd expect it). BK needs to look in the mirror. His Red Zone offense(s) are terrible and they're one of the problems that are holding this team back from being elite.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Right. I mean Elmer and Martin do not get a push. They've been blown up a lot during run plays in the red zone. You had Alex Bars at your disposal (although he's out now). Why not utilize McGovern, Mustipher, and Montelus (aren't they supposedly "maulers")? The TEs aren't doing great blocking, so why not bring in an extra OL and move Tyler into the Hback role. Alize and CRob out wide. If Kizer and CJ can't get into the endzone with that kind of package, I don't know who can. And if the defense loads the box and sells out on the run, use the play-action to throw to a wide open WR that will be 6" taller than the nearest DB.

And if that doesn't work, at least they tried something new and gave the defense something to think about.

The problem I have is that it seems nothing is being done to correct the issue. It's a problem game-after-game, season-after-season.

We definitely miss Folston in the red zone. Love CJ but Folston was definitely better at short yardage.

 

[kmoose]

We definitely miss Folston in the red zone. Love CJ but Folston was definitely better at short yardage.

Red Zone and short yardage are not the same.... just saying...

 

[NDRock]

Red Zone and short yardage are not the same.... just saying...

You don't think having a good, short-yardage back would help in the red zone? Just asking.

 

[kmoose]

You don't think having a good, short-yardage back would help in the red zone? Just asking.

Who says we don't? Have you heard football people talk about CJ Prosise? One consistent point of praise they have for him is that he runs with power.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah, I've never seen the argument that Prosise doesn't run with power. He's not the Bus, but who is? Prosise has good speed, and yet he can still get low and run through some tackles. He's not GAIII. Look at the jet sweep against LSU, couple broken tackles there. He had a run against Navy I think where he spun out of that one tackle up the middle and got into the end zone all while a couple other guys were trying to bring him down.

 

[NDRock]

Who says we don't? Have you heard football people talk about CJ Prosise? One consistent point of praise they have for him is that he runs with power.

Well I didn't. I did allude that we might be better if we also had a healthy Folston, your opinion my vary.

 

[kmoose]

Well I didn't.

Like hell. You said:

You don't think having a good, short-yardage back would help in the red zone? Just asking.

If you were just trying to say that Folston would help, you would have said "You don't think having ANOTHER good, short yardage back would help........."

When you ask if having ONE (a) good short yardage back in there, you are implying that we don't currently have one.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Bring in Montelus and Mustipher as the tight ends and move Luatua to H/ fullback with Kizer under center and hand it off to Williams on a straight ahead dive. Would be interesting to see.

Hey look we agree on something haha

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Go all Stanford on people. Double tight, power I. Put O linemen in at TE, put another one in the backfield with Luatua, and let CJ/ Adams go.

If you can't 2-3 yards doing that, your boys need more steak and potatoes.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Like hell. You said:



If you were just trying to say that Folston would help, you would have said "You don't think having ANOTHER good, short yardage back would help........."

When you ask if having ONE (a) good short yardage back in there, you are implying that we don't currently have one.

Folston definitely has better vision and instincts than Procise. Procise is good in both those departments, but Folston is about as much of a natural at the position as it comes. Folston is great at making the cut at the right time and hitting the right hole.

The similarities in Procise vs Folston are bizarrely similar to Wood vs Gray (who is remarkably similar to Procise IMO) in 2011. Gray became the #1 back before he got injured, but Wood was still relied on in short distance situations.

 

[Cogs]

Wow, those are very different numbers than were posted in the first post. I'm guessing the difference is between the percentage of TDs scored in the red zone and the actual red zone scoring:

2010 - 51st
2011 - 82nd
2012 - 67th
2013 - 69th
2014 - 78th
2015 - 98th

Can you believe ND went to a title game with the 112th red zone scoring % in 2012? My god, how good was the defense. 9 Tds allowed in one regular season...

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Can you believe ND went to a title game with the 112th red zone scoring % in 2012? My god, how good was the defense. 9 Tds allowed in one regular season...

#112 in red zone TD%, not scoring%. They were #73 in scoring% due to the fact that they were #12 in FG%. ND converted 80% of red zone trips into points that year, albeit less than half were from TDs. The FGs are what's driving up this ranking. That's one of the main problems recently: ND leads FBS schools in red zone TOs. If you don't score a TD, you need to at least make a FG.

For the record in 2012, ND's total scoring offense ranked #80 at 25.8 ppg. Defense ranked #2, only allowing 12.8 ppg.

 

[NDRock]

Believe we went 4 for 4 with 4 TDs today. Great job. Kelly said they focused on it this week and it seemed to show.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Believe we went 4 for 4 with 4 TDs today. Great job. Kelly said they focused on it this week and it seemed to show.

Need to continue to focus on it as much, if not more each week going forward. Have to score in the redzone, especially against Stanford.

 

[IrishLax]

I liked that Kelly didn't just hand wave at the problem and say "we'll practice more" but instead said they reviewed play calling to make sure there was a reason for every play call in every situation, and then after doing that self-scout they went out and practiced red zone offense.

It really showed. Notice that the only "jet sweep" type play they ran was with an actual RB and it went for a TD, and they also made sure to have more of a numbers advantage to the side they ran it to. The run game in general was much better in the RZ, and the passing plays attacked the middle of the field better. Weishar was wide open on another play that Kizer sort of missed (also, Weishar seemed to settle down his route).

A+ coaching job with respect to improving this area for this week.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Fantastic today in the red zone. 100% TD rate, no?

Play calling, personnel, execution was flawless. Game ball worthy, imo. Pitt never really had a chance with ND scoring inside the 20 AND with big plays.

 

[ulukinatme]

Fantastic today in the red zone. 100% TD rate, no?

Play calling, personnel, execution was flawless. Game ball worthy, imo. Pitt never really had a chance with ND scoring inside the 20 AND with big plays.

Yeah, lets focus on red zone offense every week.

 

[Irish_Passion]

I liked that Kelly didn't just hand wave at the problem and say "we'll practice more" but instead said they reviewed play calling to make sure there was a reason for every play call in every situation, and then after doing that self-scout they went out and practiced red zone offense.

It really showed. Notice that the only "jet sweep" type play they ran was with an actual RB and it went for a TD, and they also made sure to have more of a numbers advantage to the side they ran it to. The run game in general was much better in the RZ, and the passing plays attacked the middle of the field better. Weishar was wide open on another play that Kizer sort of missed (also, Weishar seemed to settle down his route).

A+ coaching job with respect to improving this area for this week.

I agree with 90% of this post, but the jet sweep, although successful is painful to see lined up in the RZ, cause it happens (From the same formation) alms every time in the RZ. I do like the formation as it opens up a lot of possibilities, but I'd be really surprised if good defensive coaches don't catch onto that stuff. Ive seen the fake w/ Kizor up the middle from that formation, but I'd like to see a PaP from it too to so that the defense can't just key in on the formation. Maybe he's setting it up for later in the season, but that is my two cents.

 

[ACamp1900]

I made a beer run at halftime, met another Irish fan and we joked that it's good strategy to bomb it deep and score that way, because if we get into the red zone.......

 

[Legacy]

Red zone conversion stats for Alabama, Ohio State and ND

Red zone conversion stats for Alabama, Ohio State and ND

Against FBS competition,

Alabama - 80.39% (83rd), TDs 50.98% (104th), FGs 29.41%
Ohio State - 80%, TDs 66% (31st), FGs 14%
Notre Dame - 80%, TDs 56% (85th), FGs 24%

You'd think Alabama would have a better RZ TD conversion rate.

 

[kmoose]

Against FBS competition,

Alabama - 80.39% (83rd), TDs 50.98% (104th), FGs 29.41%
Ohio State - 80%, TDs 66% (31st), FGs 14%
Notre Dame - 80%, TDs 56% (85th), FGs 24%

You'd think Alabama would have a better RZ TD conversion rate.

They should probably revisit Nick Saban....

 

[Legacy]

They should probably revisit Nick Saban....

The best RB and one of the best OLs with TDs only half the time in the RZ -- Fire Kiffin!

 

[Irish YJ]

They should probably revisit Nick Saban....

Saban does not have the BVG advantage